Soul Sleep

[Molly]

I had an interesting revelation regarding the transfiguration, which of course is just mine alone, and doesn't sit well with Christian tradition.  However, although we are not given the name of the mountain where the transfiguration took place, Christian tradition names mount Tabor.

But, there is another contender in that area where the disciples were walking with Jesus, and it is where both Elijah and Moses disappeared, and that is Mount Nebo.  We are told that the Lord took Moses to the top of Mount Nebo and showed him the promised land, a land which he would not cross into himself.

Anyway, back to my vision--I was reading about the transfiguration and I heard a whooshing sound and felt like I was punched in the chest, and all of a sudden, I saw time collapsing, and the Lord Jesus standing on the mountain with Moses, showing him the promised land.  I could see the picture in 360 degrees, and from the back, I saw the Lord and Moses standing overlooking the promised land (deut 34), and from the front, I had the view of Peter and the disciples of the transfiguration.

Later, I found out, yes, quite possibly, this could be the same the mountain.

[rosered]

Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.

Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life.  So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will.  Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.

And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes?  Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.

agh

Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release

Bound in their SINS

something along these lines maybe

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

i cannot see this at all , they died  with the  TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
   the fifth seal is being opened for them , the wrath of God being  poured out  they were  given white robes to BE  making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE  JUDMENT OF GOD  

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:    


Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.  
  the  seven vials are for   HER ONLY  and those  found in Her
  Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading  how all the wrath of God is complete in her 

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
  :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.

Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life.  So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will.  Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.

And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes?  Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.

agh

Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release

Bound in their SINS

something along these lines maybe

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

i cannot see this at all , they died  with the  TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
   the fifth seal is being opened for them , the wrath of God being  poured out  they were  given white robes to BE  making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE  JUDMENT OF GOD  

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:    


Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.  
  the  seven vials are for   HER ONLY  and those  found in Her
  Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading  how all the wrath of God is complete in her 

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
  :HeartThrob:

Yes, they were given white robes, but they were not released.  They were instructed to "rest" a little longer until all things were fulfilled . . . I see this on one level as being where my mind is currently at . .if we truly have the mind of Christ, then ours is put to death . . .which is what takes place at the altar  .. . death . . .spiritual death?  No, carnal death so that we may have spiritual life.  And also, it's referring to the earth dwellers . . .to avenge them on the earth . . .to avenge . . .how often have you found yourself being a bit disturbed that the religious leaders in your own life led you down a path of tradition rather than spirit?  Did you not feel angst toward those who were of the earth once you found yourself at the threshold of the true Spirit?

Nothing is in stone . . .still pondering . .see you tomorrow. :bgdance:

[Taffy]

Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.

Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life.  So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will.  Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.

And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes?  Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.

agh

Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release

Bound in their SINS

something along these lines maybe

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

i cannot see this at all , they died  with the  TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
   the fifth seal is being opened for them , the wrath of God being  poured out  they were  given white robes to BE  making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE  JUDMENT OF GOD  

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:    


Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.  
  the  seven vials are for   HER ONLY  and those  found in Her
  Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading  how all the wrath of God is complete in her 

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
  :HeartThrob:

Hi sis
You always cause me to question..Blessings sis :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Those waiting under the altar are these--


34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

--Mat 23



The 'righteous blood' is the blood of Christ, hence the white robes [washed in blood.]

[Taffy]

Thanks Molly :icon_flower:

must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:

[Molly]

hmmm...

They are waiting for us...

how much longer

[Taffy]

hmmm...

They are waiting for us...

how much longer

? :icon_flower:

[Molly]

Thanks Molly :icon_flower:

must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:

What other pattern?

When he says I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes--he is speaking into the future...

[Zeek]

Isa 29:3 And I will camp as a circle on you, and will lay siege work on you; and I will raise up ramparts on you.

Isa 29:4 And you shall be brought low; you shall speak from the ground; and your speech shall be bowed down; and your voice shall be from the ground, like a medium; and your speech shall chirp out of the dust.

Isa 29:9 Wait and wonder! Blind yourselves, and be blind! They are drunk, but not with wine! They stagger, but not with fermented drink!

Isa 29:10 For Jehovah has poured out on you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes. He has covered the prophets and your heads, the seers.

Isa 29:11 And the whole vision to you is like the words of a sealed book which they give to one knowing books, saying, Please read this. Then he says, I am not able, for it is sealed.

Rom 13:11 Also this, knowing the time, that it is now the hour for you to be aroused from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than when we believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone, and the day has drawn near; then let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the weapons of the light.

Eze 37:12 So prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, O My people, and I will bring you to the land of Israel.

Eze 37:13 And you shall know that I am Jehovah when I have opened your graves and have brought you up out of your graves, O My people.

Eze 37:14 And I shall put My Spirit within you, and you shall live; and I will put you on your own land. And you shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken and have done it, says Jehovah.


Job 33:15 In a dream, a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men; while they slumber on the bed,

Job 33:16 then He opens the ear of men and seals their instruction,


Rom 13:12  The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.


1Th 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who sleep, that you not grieve, as the rest also, not having hope.

[Taffy]

Thanks Molly :icon_flower:

must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:

What other pattern?

When he says I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes--he is speaking into the future...

Those from BENEATH, oppossed to those FROM Above :icon_flower:

[Molly]

hmmm...

They are waiting for us...

how much longer

? :icon_flower:

37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

--Heb 11

[Taffy]

hmmm...

They are waiting for us...

how much longer

? :icon_flower:

37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

--Heb 11

he ha..
I thought it was swipe...sorry :icon_flower:

[Molly]

swipe?

[Taffy]

swipe?

of course..Im a Brit..I forget you guys are Americans..

Low Blow? :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There's so many good posts on here, I can't quote you all.....I'm gonna add some things He gave me on several of the points for your perusal, though......

Pertaining to the mount of Transfiguration, it was also a picture of last supper/Passover lamb, with the bread/law/Moses, and the wine/prophets/Elijah. They disappeared because they went into the Christ, the new ark of the covenant. The disciples thought it was Tabernacles, because of the appearance of Elijah, and so wanted to build 3 booths, not understanding the True tabernacle they were to dwell in, was among men.

He also showed me per the souls under the altar, they they are not crying out in vengeance, but instead wanting to know how long before their brethren are killed as they were.

Spiritually speaking, to be under the altar, is this. It had a grate, and the only way under it was to be tied to it with cords of love that cannot be broken, the 4 parts of our soul tied to the 4 horns, being made a living sacrifice, consumed by the fire of God, creating a sweet smelling savor unto the Lord. Smoke is as "dust", this "dust" ascends, because life comes out of death.

Molly, that was an awesome vision. I think I know what you mean about your perspective. I cannot explain it, I can't even imagine it now, but in prayer for someone once, standing behind them, I saw the back of their head, the front of their face and all around them at the same time. Our minds mind cannot conceive of it, but the Spirit of God truly is all seeing.

[Taffy]

Pertaining to the mount of Transfiguration, it was also a picture of last supper/Passover lamb, with the bread/law/Moses, and the wine/prophets/Elijah. They disappeared because they went into the Christ, the new ark of the covenant. The disciples thought it was Tabernacles, because of the appearance of Elijah, and so wanted to build 3 booths, not understanding the True tabernacle they were to dwell in, was among men.

Yup Card

It wasnt long back having posted similar at another forum..The END of the OLD ,beginning of the NEW :icon_flower:

[Molly]

The Pharisees were questioning if John the Baptist was Elijah because Elijah was supposed to appear as a herald to the day of the LORD.




1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

--Mal 4



So we do see Elijah [in the transfiguration] before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ--but Christ tells the disciples not to tell anyone until afterwards.

[Molly]

swipe?

of course..Im a Brit..I forget you guys are Americans..

Low Blow? :laughing7:

I have an idea.  Instead of waiting 5 years for you, why don't we all learn Narnian?

"swipe"

low blow




I also wanted to say that although John the Baptist denies being Elijah [Jn1:21], Jesus says differently--


13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

--Mat 11



11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

--Mat 17

[Taffy]

I have an idea.  Instead of waiting 5 years for you, why don't we all learn Narnian?

yeah..be easier :happygrin: :icon_flower:

[Molly]

Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.

Life is real!  Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

--Longfellow

[willieH]

willieH: Hey Molly!  :hithere:

Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.

Life is real!  Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

--Longfellow

This is just the quoted opinion of, "Longfellow"  :laughing7:  ...to which I say: 

"Oh REALLY?"... I disagree with the "long boy's" observation...

WHO was SPOKEN OF...
GOD spoke these words (dust thou, and unto dust [not heaven] shalt thou RETURN) ...TO...  Adam & Eve, who were the ones SPOKEN OF... These 2 were a combination production which included DUST and HIS BREATH...  Which brought forth a NEW entity... the "LIVING SOUL"...

The 2 "LIVING SOULS" were the ones SPOKEN OF, by GOD, not just the DUST they (in part) came from...

WHAT SOULS shall "SLUMBER" in DEATH...
The SOUL that SINNETH,  ...IT, shall DIE... (Ez 18:20 ) (ALL have SINNED)

GOAL...
We are MORE than just a "SOUL"... we ARE members of the BODY of the DIVINE... which shall FOREVER DO as the HEAD of that BODY shall deem we DO...  :dontknow:

THAT, is our DESTINY... AND, ...our GOAL.

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

[Molly]

Hi WillieH--

Not to say that I am agreement with whatever Longfellow believed, but I like this poem.  For the soul is dead that slumbers--is in agreement with what Jesus said--Let the dead bury their dead, and Lazarus is sleeping, let's wake him up!  Here's some more of the same poem, A Psalm of Life--

Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
        Is our destined end or way ;
    But to act, that each to-morrow
        Find us farther than to-day.

    Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
        And our hearts, though stout and brave,
    Still, like muffled drums, are beating
        Funeral marches to the grave.

    In the world's broad field of battle,
        In the bivouac of Life,
    Be not like dumb, driven cattle !
        Be a hero in the strife !

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly... :hithere:

Hi WillieH--

Not to say that I am agreement with whatever Longfellow believed, but I like this poem.  For the soul is dead that slumbers--is in agreement with what Jesus said--Let the dead bury their dead, and Lazarus is sleeping, let's wake him up!  Here's some more of the same poem, A Psalm of Life--

Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
        Is our destined end or way ;
    But to act, that each to-morrow
        Find us farther than to-day.

    Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
        And our hearts, though stout and brave,
    Still, like muffled drums, are beating
        Funeral marches to the grave.

    In the world's broad field of battle,
        In the bivouac of Life,
    Be not like dumb, driven cattle !
        Be a hero in the strife !

That's fine Molly...  :wink2:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

[Molly]

Thanks, Willie!


"Whene'er a noble deed is wrought,
  Whene'er is spoken a noble thought,
  Our hearts in glad surprise
  To higher levels rise."

--Longfellow