If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
Good observation. I believe one of the gospels has Jesus saying, "Tell the vision to no one" A vision is different from literal visitation.
sleep walking??
Actually time travel, but I'll get into that later and where Scripture indicates it.
Hi , I like being able to see something new :thumbsup:
I always thought the transfiguration , was figurative in that Moses and Elijah represented the Law & prophets
Peter wanted to build 3 tabernacles , we know that Jesus Christ is the House not made with hands [ Spirit ]
than there was ONLY CHRIST , I saw this as meaning till Christ be all in all
so I am not sure if that is literal people or not ? it could be I guess
:bigGrin:
:cloud9: The spirit returns to the One who sent it. The soul, which is the mind, will, emotions, and desires, stays trapped (in the realm of spirit as a "ghost") in whatever it did not overcome through Christ, while still in the body.
The RE- union of soul and spirit is the first resurrection. Soul and spirit were divided in the garden. The greater works He said we would do is this, and the second or "superior" resurrection, ie. the one while still in the body.
Things have been hidden by men not making the living Word personal and individual instruction to be measured out in due season by the Spirit of the living God. What has happened in the churches with it is this; if you have a literal book that has a seal on it, and a crowd sitting there waiting for something to happen, staring up at a literal sky (instead of looking for Him who is Spirit now, ie. hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh), that does not open the seal.
But the One whose book it is that holds it in His hands, He can open the seal and speak from it with understanding being given as He goes. The phenomenal thing is, the very thing He is speaking is also sealed within us, and awakens at His voice, giving us understanding also at the same time, ie. a witness. In all your getting, get understanding.....Blessings....
Quote from: cardinalThe spirit returns to the One who sent it. The soul, which is the mind, will, emotions, and desires, stays trapped (in the realm of spirit as a "ghost") in whatever it did not overcome through Christ, while still in the body.
The RE- union of soul and spirit is the first resurrection. Soul and spirit were divided in the garden. The greater works He said we would do is this, and the second or "superior" resurrection, ie. the one while still in the body.
Could you expound on this? Are you saying there are people walking around who do not have spirit? And that one can die that way? The greater works is what? And, the first and second resurrection? I thought the first resurrection are the kings and priests of God and Christ.
:cloud9: I have to leave for awhile, I will when I return. I will say this; I asked Him what the greater works were, and He told me to bring back in union the soul and the Spirit. That's what actually is happening as we draw closer to Him and we decrease and overcome through Christ in us. This is why many arose when He did; He represented the Spirit, they the souls coming back into union with Christ and which is why the wheat and the tares are raised up together, in principle. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on December 27, 2008, 07:06:30 PM
:cloud9: The spirit returns to the One who sent it. The soul, which is the mind, will, emotions, and desires, stays trapped (in the realm of spirit as a "ghost") in whatever it did not overcome through Christ, while still in the body.
The RE- union of soul and spirit is the first resurrection. Soul and spirit were divided in the garden. The greater works He said we would do is this, and the second or "superior" resurrection, ie. the one while still in the body.
Things have been hidden by men not making the living Word personal and individual instruction to be measured out in due season by the Spirit of the living God. What has happened in the churches with it is this; if you have a literal book that has a seal on it, and a crowd sitting there waiting for something to happen, staring up at a literal sky (instead of looking for Him who is Spirit now, ie. hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh), that does not open the seal.
But the One whose book it is that holds it in His hands, He can open the seal and speak from it with understanding being given as He goes. The phenomenal thing is, the very thing He is speaking is also sealed within us, and awakens at His voice, giving us understanding also at the same time, ie. a witness. In all your getting, get understanding.....Blessings....
:goodpost: and hey there, friend! Welcome back! God's blessing, James.
Quote from: Cardinal on December 27, 2008, 07:06:30 PM
:cloud9: The spirit returns to the One who sent it. The soul, which is the mind, will, emotions, and desires, stays trapped (in the realm of spirit as a "ghost") in whatever it did not overcome through Christ, while still in the body.
The RE- union of soul and spirit is the first resurrection. Soul and spirit were divided in the garden. The greater works He said we would do is this, and the second or "superior" resurrection, ie. the one while still in the body.
Things have been hidden by men not making the living Word personal and individual instruction to be measured out in due season by the Spirit of the living God. What has happened in the churches with it is this; if you have a literal book that has a seal on it, and a crowd sitting there waiting for something to happen, staring up at a literal sky (instead of looking for Him who is Spirit now, ie. hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh), that does not open the seal.
But the One whose book it is that holds it in His hands, He can open the seal and speak from it with understanding being given as He goes. The phenomenal thing is, the very thing He is speaking is also sealed within us, and awakens at His voice, giving us understanding also at the same time, ie. a witness. In all your getting, get understanding.....Blessings....
the better resurrection sis ? the rest we have in Christ /God ?
i get it thanks !! :HeartThrob:
Hbr 11:35 Women/ soul mind /womb received their dead/spirit ? raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a
better resurrection:
:cloud9: Hiya buddy Jabcat! Thanks....glad it ministered to you y'all rosered.......blessings....
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
Didn't the witch of Endor disturbe the soulsleep op Samuel?
1Sa 28:15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"....
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
This was a VISIONAL thing presented by GOD... not a personal appearance by Moses & Elijah...
JESUS plainly noted that ...NO MAN... hath ASCENDED up into Heaven... except HIMSELF. (John 3:13)
"No man" includes
EVERYONE... Moses & Elijah as well...
The "go to heaven, go to hell" teachings are MAN invented... and are NOT Scripturally based.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower:
willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Quote from: willieH on January 21, 2009, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
This was a VISIONAL thing presented by GOD... not a personal appearance by Moses & Elijah...
JESUS plainly noted that ...NO MAN... hath ASCENDED up into Heaven... except HIMSELF. (John 3:13)
"No man" includes EVERYONE... Moses & Elijah as well...
The "go to heaven, go to hell" teachings are MAN invented... and are NOT Scripturally based.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
yo Wille an ANGEL of HIM above.
No
man has ascended Bro AMEN..but Have you ever contemplated that the Angels ARE FROM ABOVE and May have ascended to the HEAVENS....That is after a Spiritual Truth?
Love those Flowers Matey :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 21, 2009, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
Didn't the witch of Endor disturbe the soulsleep op Samuel?
1Sa 28:15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"....
That is a great question WW
You always bring up those questions that make me think
and I think soulsleep is a coined phrase lol :2c:
soul/life is the seat of emotions , if you feel nothing that means like dead inside to me some verbs to describe it , hollow, empty dark , lonely , vast etc .
Saul perceived it was Samuel
Samuel was a prophet from his mothers womb
and none of the prohets are dead in the spiritual sense only in the literal sense
Saul was not seeking God for answers that was his error
he was seeking a prophet / spokesman, speaker
same to me as worshipping angels/messengers which is forbidden
I seriously doubt this make any difference to you one way or the other
for a solid answer but I know that the
souls of them who died in the Lord are under the altar and still speak to this day
I see Samuel as one of them with a voice still .under the altar , that is under heaven underneath
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw
under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? what do you think ?
can this be true ?
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: willieH on January 21, 2009, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
This was a VISIONAL thing presented by GOD... not a personal appearance by Moses & Elijah...
JESUS plainly noted that ...NO MAN... hath ASCENDED up into Heaven... except HIMSELF. (John 3:13)
"No man" includes EVERYONE... Moses & Elijah as well...
The "go to heaven, go to hell" teachings are MAN invented... and are NOT Scripturally based.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
yo Wille an ANGEL of HIM above.
No man has ascended Bro AMEN..but Have you ever contemplated that the Angels ARE FROM ABOVE and May have ascended to the HEAVENS....That is after a Spiritual Truth?
Love those Flowers Matey :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
YEAH T, I see what u mean.
Depends on one's view of what an "angel" is.
:icon_flower:
Walk in the spirit . . . What if when he says no man can ascend, it's speaking about one who identifies himself with natural reasoning. No carnal man, no physical being, no person who does not have the capability of seeing spiritual kingdoms can enter into those kingdoms.
Anyone ever ask "how" Peter knew they were Moses and Elijah? Did he carry a picture of them in his wallet?
Elisha's armor bearer saw angelic warriers surrounding their tent . . was that real or imaginary? I see these things as places where God pulled back the veils of the natural realm and let physical men see into the spiritual things. They saw Jesus trasform into a glorified state . . .Jesus was with them at the beginning . . .to say this was just a vision, would then imply that Jesus, in the flesh . ..just sorta waited as the boyz went into their trances. I don't think so. I think Jesus was there in the flesh, transitioned into his spiritual state before their physical eyes and there was a spiritual recognition that took place as they knew it was Moses and Elijah.
My mind wants to justify that it was a vision because to say it's anything else is beyond comprehension . . .which is just what Jesus is . .he's beyond all comprehension.
Let's push the envelope a bit what was the purpose for this event? Was Jesus wanting to show off his physche? Flexing his dimensional muscles? What was the significance of the law and the prophets manifesting with Christ? What puzzle is this piece to fit into?
I believe it's the puzzle of the tabernacle . .and the piece Jesus was revealing was the contents within the ark . . .the stone tablets/law/Moses. . .Aaron's dead-but-budding stick/prophets/Elijah and the jar of manna/bread/Christ.
In other words . . .this was the FIRST time that all three elements within the ark were brought together in one place since Israel first lost the ark when Eli and his sons were killed and Samuel's ministry as "the" prophet and judge of Israel began. When Jesus said he came to fulfill the law . . .he wasn't kidding. Israel had lost the manna and Aarons rod . .they'd lost their bread and the Spirit that led them . .all they had for hundreds and even thousands of years was the law.
Through the transfiguration that day to only 3 of the 12, only those who were closest to Jesus were given the ability to 1, see him in his true glorified state, and b (?) he revealed he was healing the heart of God . . .these articles were "in" the ark that was "in" the holy of holies. And it comes in threes . . .everything is connected to resurrection. Jesus resurrected God's heart and will by reconciling us back to him.
on the other hand . . .I could just be making all this stuff up. :laughing7:
Eph 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms--all because we are one with Christ Jesus.
Quote from: Zeek on January 21, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
Eph 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms--all because we are one with Christ Jesus.
These souls don't sound like their seated . . .they sound like they're bound . . .I have an idea . . . but I want to see what others think first.
Quote from: Zeek on January 21, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: willieH on January 21, 2009, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Brian on December 26, 2008, 11:24:27 PM
If our soul's sleep after we physically die until the Day Of Judgment, as some assert, then how did Moses and Elijah appear talking with Jesus during the Transfiguration?
This was a VISIONAL thing presented by GOD... not a personal appearance by Moses & Elijah...
JESUS plainly noted that ...NO MAN... hath ASCENDED up into Heaven... except HIMSELF. (John 3:13)
"No man" includes EVERYONE... Moses & Elijah as well...
The "go to heaven, go to hell" teachings are MAN invented... and are NOT Scripturally based.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
yo Wille an ANGEL of HIM above.
No man has ascended Bro AMEN..but Have you ever contemplated that the Angels ARE FROM ABOVE and May have ascended to the HEAVENS....That is after a Spiritual Truth?
Love those Flowers Matey :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
YEAH T, I see what u mean.
Depends on one's view of what an "angel" is.
:icon_flower:
Yes Z....NOTthe Mortal man, But He whos PUT on CHRIST, :icon_flower:
and quit it with me Flowers,,theys Mine :laughing7:
Quote
Anyone ever ask "how" Peter knew they were Moses and Elijah? Did he carry a picture of them in his wallet?
ya mean He didnt, Shucks :icon_flower:
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Quote from: Zeek on January 21, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
Eph 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms--all because we are one with Christ Jesus.
:icon_flower:
But to be SEATED(with HIM -Nat can have that one)sounds SOMETHING like the Mercy seat to me. :icon_flower:
first the HEAVENS(our minds) nead purification dont YA think Bro :cloud9:
Joe 2:30 And I will shew
wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke
Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.
Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life. So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will. Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.
And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes? Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.
Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.
Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life. So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will. Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.
And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes? Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.
agh
Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release
Bound in their SINS
something along these lines maybe
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
willieH: Yo! :mshock:
When "SOUL SLEEP" is discussed (which is an Unbiblical term), ...we shall inevitably end up with the ILLOGICAL notation that even though those who
believe and which,
"go to heaven" (at their death),
They are, for some supposed reason (or as I see it,
unreason) RE-INSERTED,
from Heaven, into their "resurrected" bodies at the "RESURRECTION"... How can it be called a "resurrection", when they are already ALIVE in Heaven?
The Scripture SAYS:
(1) ...WE which are ALIVE and remain, shall not PREVENT them which
ARE ASLEEP... (1 Thess 4:16) Are,
ASLEEP? Did these somehow "doze off" somewhere "in Heaven"?
(2) ...the
DEAD in CHRIST shall RISE FIRST --
THEN ...(THEN?) -- WE who are
ALIVE and remain (ALIVE? aren't the "Heaven dwellers", ...ALIVE too?) (1 Thess 4:16-17)
How can there be "
DEAD" ...
in CHRIST if in fact, they ARE in Heaven? :omg:
Too much traditional, "him-haw" here... :thumbdown:
If one
IS ALIVE with
CHRIST in
"heaven", ...how can he/she be noted as, ...
DEAD? :wacko2:
IMO, it is the RELIGIOUS whim of men to percieve themselves to "go to Heaven" at their physical death... and also in my observation (which is potentially flawed), this is
NOT what the Bible says about our death...
GOD said in the beginning: ...DUST, thou
art, and unto DUST (not Heaven) shalt thou RETURN... (Gen 3:19)
Which tells me, that we ARE of the
dirt [clay]... and shall return to dirt [clay], awaiting His call to
RISE FROM
IT...
Though
CHRIST did not return to DIRT as do we, He DID RISE from the DEATH of the Tomb... thereby OVERCOMING that DEATH.
He was
DEAD in the tomb (not ALIVE, in HEAVEN)... and ROSE from the
DEATH of that TOMB...
He didn't
race back to the tomb
from Heaven, so He could
RISE from the
death of that tomb... :mnah:
believe what you will, bro's :king: & so's :icon_queen: ... :HeartThrob:
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:laughing7:
willieH :laughing7:
I had an interesting revelation regarding the transfiguration, which of course is just mine alone, and doesn't sit well with Christian tradition. However, although we are not given the name of the mountain where the transfiguration took place, Christian tradition names mount Tabor.
But, there is another contender in that area where the disciples were walking with Jesus, and it is where both Elijah and Moses disappeared, and that is Mount Nebo. We are told that the Lord took Moses to the top of Mount Nebo and showed him the promised land, a land which he would not cross into himself.
Anyway, back to my vision--I was reading about the transfiguration and I heard a whooshing sound and felt like I was punched in the chest, and all of a sudden, I saw time collapsing, and the Lord Jesus standing on the mountain with Moses, showing him the promised land. I could see the picture in 360 degrees, and from the back, I saw the Lord and Moses standing overlooking the promised land (deut 34), and from the front, I had the view of Peter and the disciples of the transfiguration.
Later, I found out, yes, quite possibly, this could be the same the mountain.
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.
Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life. So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will. Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.
And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes? Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.
agh
Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release
Bound in their SINS
something along these lines maybe
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
i cannot see this at all , they died with the TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
the fifth seal is
being opened for them , the wrath of God being poured out they were given white robes
to BE making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDMENT OF GOD And when he had opened the fifth seal,
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge
and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And
in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. the seven vials are for
HER ONLY and those found in Her
Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading how all the wrath of God is complete in her
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore,
which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on January 21, 2009, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.
Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life. So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will. Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.
And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes? Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.
agh
Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release
Bound in their SINS
something along these lines maybe
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
i cannot see this at all , they died with the TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
the fifth seal is being opened for them , the wrath of God being poured out they were given white robes to BE making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDMENT OF GOD
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
the seven vials are for HER ONLY and those found in Her
Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading how all the wrath of God is complete in her
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
:HeartThrob:
Yes, they were given white robes, but they were not released. They were instructed to "rest" a little longer until all things were fulfilled . . . I see this on one level as being where my mind is currently at . .if we truly have the mind of Christ, then ours is put to death . . .which is what takes place at the altar .. . death . . .spiritual death? No, carnal death so that we may have spiritual life. And also, it's referring to the earth dwellers . . .to avenge them on the earth . . .to avenge . . .how often have you found yourself being a bit disturbed that the religious leaders in your own life led you down a path of tradition rather than spirit? Did you not feel angst toward those who were of the earth once you found yourself at the threshold of the true Spirit?
Nothing is in stone . . .still pondering . .see you tomorrow. :bgdance:
Quote from: rosered on January 21, 2009, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
Okay, here's a thought . . .sigh . . .didn't see this really until now . . .not sure how it's going to even come out here either.
Okay, we all agree that God is a consuming fire . . .which then leads us to see that God is the "lake" of fire . .where those who's names (identities) are not in the book (tree) of life. So . .. when these guys are cast into the place of God, it's clear, they're not their for their enjoyment, and even they are there against their will. Which is to say . . .they want to be somewhere else.
And seeing these souls are being held, apparently against their will also, beneath the altar and because they're still looking for vengence and not peace, there is still some soulish nature manifesting in them yes? Then I'm thinking that this place beneath the altar is actually the same as the lake of fire . . .it's "in" God's presence, they "don't" want to be there, they're not being let out . . .and they're still looking for vengence, which is a carnal desire . . . this kind of sheds a whole new light on things for me.
agh
Those souls...for a mo I was wondering what you were talking off..Yes BUD Those are BOUND waiting for release
Bound in their SINS
something along these lines maybe
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
i cannot see this at all , they died with the TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HELD
the fifth seal is being opened for them , the wrath of God being poured out they were given white robes to BE making up the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDMENT OF GOD
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
the seven vials are for HER ONLY and those found in Her
Come out of her my people lest you reciver her plagues
after reading how all the wrath of God is complete in her
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
:HeartThrob:
Hi sis
You always cause me to question..Blessings sis :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Those waiting under the altar are these--
34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
--Mat 23
The 'righteous blood' is the blood of Christ, hence the white robes [washed in blood.]
Thanks Molly :icon_flower:
must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:
hmmm...
They are waiting for us...
how much longer
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:38:46 PM
hmmm...
They are waiting for us...
how much longer
? :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
Thanks Molly :icon_flower:
must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:
What other pattern?
When he says
I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes--he is speaking into the future...
Isa 29:3 And I will camp as a circle on you, and will lay siege work on you; and I will raise up ramparts on you.
Isa 29:4 And you shall be brought low; you shall speak from the ground; and your speech shall be bowed down; and your voice shall be from the ground, like a medium; and your speech shall chirp out of the dust.
Isa 29:9 Wait and wonder! Blind yourselves, and be blind! They are drunk, but not with wine! They stagger, but not with fermented drink!
Isa 29:10 For Jehovah has poured out on you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes. He has covered the prophets and your heads, the seers.
Isa 29:11 And the whole vision to you is like the words of a sealed book which they give to one knowing books, saying, Please read this. Then he says, I am not able, for it is sealed.
Rom 13:11 Also this, knowing the time, that it is now the hour for you to be aroused from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far gone, and the day has drawn near; then let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the weapons of the light.
Eze 37:12 So prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, O My people, and I will bring you to the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And you shall know that I am Jehovah when I have opened your graves and have brought you up out of your graves, O My people.
Eze 37:14 And I shall put My Spirit within you, and you shall live; and I will put you on your own land. And you shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken and have done it, says Jehovah.
Job 33:15 In a dream, a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men; while they slumber on the bed,
Job 33:16 then He opens the ear of men and seals their instruction,
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
1Th 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who sleep, that you not grieve, as the rest also, not having hope.
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:41:34 PM
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
Thanks Molly :icon_flower:
must watch that wording as was seeing under another pattern :icon_flower:
What other pattern?
When he says I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes--he is speaking into the future...
Those from BENEATH, oppossed to those FROM Above :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:38:46 PM
hmmm...
They are waiting for us...
how much longer
? :icon_flower:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.--Heb 11
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:38:46 PM
hmmm...
They are waiting for us...
how much longer
? :icon_flower:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
--Heb 11
he ha..
I thought it was swipe...sorry :icon_flower:
swipe?
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:48:57 PM
swipe?
of course..Im a Brit..I forget you guys are Americans..
Low Blow? :laughing7:
:cloud9: There's so many good posts on here, I can't quote you all.....I'm gonna add some things He gave me on several of the points for your perusal, though......
Pertaining to the mount of Transfiguration, it was also a picture of last supper/Passover lamb, with the bread/law/Moses, and the wine/prophets/Elijah. They disappeared because they went into the Christ, the new ark of the covenant. The disciples thought it was Tabernacles, because of the appearance of Elijah, and so wanted to build 3 booths, not understanding the True tabernacle they were to dwell in, was among men.
He also showed me per the souls under the altar, they they are not crying out in vengeance, but instead wanting to know how long before their brethren are killed as they were.
Spiritually speaking, to be under the altar, is this. It had a grate, and the only way under it was to be tied to it with cords of love that cannot be broken, the 4 parts of our soul tied to the 4 horns, being made a living sacrifice, consumed by the fire of God, creating a sweet smelling savor unto the Lord. Smoke is as "dust", this "dust" ascends, because life comes out of death.
Molly, that was an awesome vision. I think I know what you mean about your perspective. I cannot explain it, I can't even imagine it now, but in prayer for someone once, standing behind them, I saw the back of their head, the front of their face and all around them at the same time. Our minds mind cannot conceive of it, but the Spirit of God truly is all seeing.
QuotePertaining to the mount of Transfiguration, it was also a picture of last supper/Passover lamb, with the bread/law/Moses, and the wine/prophets/Elijah. They disappeared because they went into the Christ, the new ark of the covenant. The disciples thought it was Tabernacles, because of the appearance of Elijah, and so wanted to build 3 booths, not understanding the True tabernacle they were to dwell in, was among men.
Yup Card
It wasnt long back having posted similar at another forum..The END of the OLD ,beginning of the NEW :icon_flower:
The Pharisees were questioning if John the Baptist was Elijah because Elijah was supposed to appear as a herald to the day of the LORD.
1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
--Mal 4
So we do see Elijah [in the transfiguration] before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ--but Christ tells the disciples not to tell anyone until afterwards.
Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 11:48:57 PM
swipe?
of course..Im a Brit..I forget you guys are Americans..
Low Blow? :laughing7:
I have an idea. Instead of waiting 5 years for you, why don't we all learn Narnian?
"swipe"low blow
I also wanted to say that although John the Baptist denies being Elijah [Jn1:21], Jesus says differently--
13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. --Mat 11
11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
--Mat 17
Quote
I have an idea. Instead of waiting 5 years for you, why don't we all learn Narnian?
yeah..be easier :happygrin: :icon_flower:
Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
--Longfellow
willieH: Hey Molly! :hithere:
Quote from: Molly on January 22, 2009, 06:13:27 PM
Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
--Longfellow
This is just the quoted opinion of, "Longfellow" :laughing7: ...to which I say:
"Oh REALLY?"... I disagree with the "long boy's" observation...
WHO was SPOKEN OF...
GOD spoke these words (dust thou, and unto dust [not heaven] shalt thou RETURN) ...
TO... Adam & Eve, who were the ones SPOKEN
OF... These 2 were a combination production which included
DUST and HIS BREATH... Which brought forth a NEW entity... the "LIVING SOUL"...
The 2 "LIVING SOULS" were the ones SPOKEN OF, by GOD, not just the DUST they (in part) came from...
WHAT SOULS shall "SLUMBER" in DEATH...
The SOUL that
SINNETH, ...
IT,
shall DIE... (Ez 18:20 ) (
ALL have
SINNED)
GOAL...
We are
MORE than just a "SOUL"... we ARE
members of the BODY of the DIVINE... which shall FOREVER
DO as the HEAD of that BODY shall deem we
DO... :dontknow:
THAT, is our DESTINY... AND, ...our
GOAL.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:laughing7:
willieH :laughing7:
Hi WillieH--
Not to say that I am agreement with whatever Longfellow believed, but I like this poem. For the soul is dead that slumbers--is in agreement with what Jesus said--Let the dead bury their dead, and Lazarus is sleeping, let's wake him up! Here's some more of the same poem, A Psalm of Life--
Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
Is our destined end or way ;
But to act, that each to-morrow
Find us farther than to-day.
Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.
In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle !
Be a hero in the strife !
willieH: Hi Molly... :hithere:
Quote from: Molly on January 24, 2009, 08:36:09 PM
Hi WillieH--
Not to say that I am agreement with whatever Longfellow believed, but I like this poem. For the soul is dead that slumbers--is in agreement with what Jesus said--Let the dead bury their dead, and Lazarus is sleeping, let's wake him up! Here's some more of the same poem, A Psalm of Life--
Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
Is our destined end or way ;
But to act, that each to-morrow
Find us farther than to-day.
Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.
In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle !
Be a hero in the strife !
That's fine Molly... :wink2:
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:laughing7:
willieH :laughing7:
Thanks, Willie!
"Whene'er a noble deed is wrought,
Whene'er is spoken a noble thought,
Our hearts in glad surprise
To higher levels rise."
--Longfellow