The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[Zeek]

here's a little

QUESTION: Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation..." In this passage it is clearly said that Christ would come immediately after the tribulation, but in 2 Thess. 1:6-8 it is shown that it is his coming "from heaven with his angels" that is causing the tribulation! How can this be explained?

ANSWER: You are correct in pointing out that the word "tribulation" (Gr. thlipsis) is found in both passages. Both passages harmonize well. In Matthew 24, there is a great tribulation (persecution) of the saints which is followed immediately by the coming of Christ, which causes the heavens & earth to be shaken and all the tribes of the earth to mourn (Matt. 24:30). In 2 Thess. 1:6-10, we see the same scenario. The saints were being persecuted. Christ would come and give them relief (AD 66), and at the same time give tribulation to their persecutors. We are talking about two different phases of the tribulation, with Christ's return in the middle (the first against the saints in AD 62 - 66, and the second against their persecutors in AD 66-70). Both passages (in their contexts) deal with both phases.   -Edward E. Stevens

http://www.preterist.org/preteristQA.asp#question1

[Nathan]

I do not have direct access to the accounts of Josephus.  What I share is what I've "read".  If you don't beleive me, search it out for yourself.  I've shared, I've quoted Scripture and yet you don't see what I'm saying.  

You can't even admit you referred to me as a new ager . . .I'm not offended . .it's not entirely true, but I'm not offended either way.  But you did say . . ."quote" I don't need people's private interpretations of new age stuff . . ."Unquote"  This was your direct response to me . . . so it's only natural to make the connection.

I have NEVER said you don't need to know the Word of God to know what God said.  This is why there is such division here.  You're just not hearing what I'm saying.  You are  . . . you seem to be . . . registering what I say through the sifting of your mind and in the end, you're assumption of what I'm saying . .isn't at all what I'm saying.

I said God's word is the FRAME . .it's like your skeleton . .that would be the framework of God's word.  It's what everything else is formed to . . .without it, there is no support . . . I accept that whole heartedly.  It's "through" Scripture that I see the patterns . . .I've shared this on the forum before . . of course, "read" the Scriptures . . ."know" the historical events . .apply the moral value . . .but always and forever . .pursue the spiritual intent.  

Nobody said throw out the Bible.  This charge against me to display proof for you . . .sounds much like the religious people when Jesus tried to talk to them as well.  Is it your spirit that demands this proof?  Or is it your mind?  It all boils down to walking in "faith".  Receiving in "faith" as Paul preached about the gospel of "faith".  Faith is not demanding proof.

[Taffy]

Maybe its Time to close this thread for a wee While Guys :icon_flower:

Take time out , its been a hot thread for the last few days.

may not please everyone...but thats never possible. :icon_flower:

[willieH]

willieH: Yo, Bobf...  :afFro:

And He lets a FEW, ...slide...  :dontknow:  The rest get the FURNACE!  :sigh:

He does not let any slide. "Therefore, every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire"

I agree, all of us "trees" to one degree or another, do not bring forth GOOD FRUIT... we bring forth the "fruit" of SINFUL behavior... which REVEALS the WRATH of GOD (Rom 1:18)

DID YOU suffer TORMENT for your SIN bob? :mnah:

Absolutely.

In THIS "FIRE" bobf... this life IS a FIRE in which you REAP what you sew... you sew IN THIS LIFE, and you REAP in this life, WHAT you SEW...

CHRIST was TRIED (in the FIRE) within THIS LIFE bob... (Rev 3:18)

:omg:  Yet you shall preach to others, that if they do not "DO" as "DO YOU"... they shall meet FIERY INDIGNATION... and the FIERCE CHASTISEMENTS of an ANGRY GOD...  :mshock:

Do as Christ commanded.  "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

I just answered this.  :declare:

My parents LOVED me... they NEVER, within their sweet and UNSELFISH LOVE, did what YOU PROPOSE that GOD shall DO! (whose LOVE is MUCH greater than was theirs --- *GOD* ...who claims that He IS LOVE itself)...  :mshock:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

That "chastening" occurs in THIS LIFE bobf... :yes:

Don't you see the HYPOCRISY in this?  This is basically what makes Christianity a hypocritical, forked tongue,

There is no hypocrisy.  It applies to all equally.

You shall see what God has for you to see... If GOD demands us to FORGIVE, then He is HYPOCRITICAL, not to do as He commands...  :dontknow:

believe what you will...

He's gonna GETCHA and BURNYA for being the SINFUL HUMAN being your ARE, if YOU don't listen to ...ME..."  (even though you are a SINNER, because HE placed YOU of HIS DECISION -- IN ADAM, and within a human DESCENDENCY which displays that - "ALL have SINNED" - even before any are even BORN!)...  :mshock:

:Yeahright: What a bunch of  UNHOLY crap!   :thumbdown:

You are welcome to your belief Bob...

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Don't you see that the FALL and RUIN of the HOUSE is HERE and NOW?  NOT, there & then...  :dontknow:

The JUDGMENT of GOD brings forth the knowledge of RIGHTEOUSNESS... (Is 26:9), not SUFFERING...

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

You herein make my point bobf... NOW is the Chastening...

How does Titus 2:11 establish your point Bob?  What in this verse notes CHASTISEMENT?

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The highlighted words "teaching" and "chastening" are the same word in greek.

You play guessing games bobf...  why didn't you make that correlation to begin with brother?  Try being UP FRONT! ...don't make me chase you around to find out what you seek to hold in shadows...

Again the Chastening is NOW in THIS LIFETIME, ...for ALL...

What makes you think JUDGMENT is about CHASTISEMENT?  JUDGMENT is about REVELATION!

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

The JUDGMENT is NOW, bobf... or do you believe CHRIST spoke in arrears here:

John 12:31 ...NOW... is the JUDGMENT of THIS WORLD;  NOW shall the prince of THIS WORLD be CAST OUT...

Where do you see CHASTISEMENT of Heb 12:6... as in the "next life"?  Verse 11 says:

Because for example Sodom & Gommorah will be resurrected and judged.  Their judgment will be more tolerable than Jerusalem's.  Therefore both Sodom's and Jerusalem's judgment will not be a fun-party. But neither will it be pointlness torment either.  It will be correction.  "....for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

CHRIST's "judgments" ...ARE... "in the earth", bobf... the KINGDOM of GOD is NOW... not future... the JUDGMENT is NOW... not future...

Sodom & Gomorrah ARE JUDGED bobf... GOD in NO WAY is bound to TIME... and in the SHAME of that JUDGMENT which occured in TIME and suffered its FIRE... shall it BOW at the KNEE and CONFESS with the TONGUE... (with WATERY EYES I might add!)

The NAKEDNESS of SHAME appears for Sodom & Gomorrah, for they took that NAKEDNESS to the dust... and when RESURRECTION occurs... they RISE in that SHAME... to the FORGIVING LOVE of YHVH and the VICTORIOUS FORGIVENESS found in their SAVIOR...

Bob: Paul labored, yet not Paul labored, but the grace of God that was in him labored.

Willie: No offense Bob, but you are speaking here much like a wind-up toy going in circles...  :sigh:

Take it up with the apostle Paul: "I laboured....yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

etc.

bobf... you make my points several times herein... and this conclusion follows suit...

PAUL nor you nor I, "labour"... it is CHRIST in us, that does the WORK...

Which is the very reason that NONE can BOAST before YHVH... (Eph 2:9)   :dontknow:

ALL aspects of SALVATION and CREATION, are accomplished by the AUTHOR and FINISHER of FAITH, and are done according to the counsel of the Sovereign WILL of YHVH...  :dontknow: (Eph 1:11 / Heb 12:2) and had been noted prior to Creation, by Him (Is 46:10-11 / Rom 4:17)


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PeacE...
...willieH  :icon_king: