The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[Nathan]

eek gad Zeek that is not what I am saying.

Let me ask this question, is Christ going to literally come again and set up His kingdom on earth?

That may not be what you're consciously saying . .but that is what it would boil down to.  That's why I caution against leaving the choosing of what is to be taken spiritual and what is to be taken literal up to men.  It's all literal . . .to those to whom it was written to.  It's all moral to those who it was written to and to us.  It's all spiritual to all who walk in the spirit and see it with spiritual vision.

Christ has come, is come and will be coming.  The question is, in what form?  He came in the flesh "for" us, He'll come in the flesh "through" us (manifestation of the sons of God) will he come back in the flesh "to" us?  If he did one and two, I would lean toward #3 as well.  But it's not something that's dominant in correlation with everything else.  

[pneuma]

We're still not connecting on this. The prayer . .for me, the point of the prayer is to release that which is already finished in the spirit, upon this earth. But for me to release that which is in the spirit. . it would mean I would actually have to be "in" the spirit. It's the spirit that gives life, this is my argument from the beginning . . .why would I want to focus on the repeat of something in the natural when the source is not in the natural, but the spiritual?

To dwell on the current state of your life is not faith. Faith is seeing things AS THOUGH they are. . .not "as" they are. In the spirit . .they are complete, in the flesh, they are not. So dwell where the completion is, and release it into where the completion isn't. It's also connected to Molly's reference of releasing and binding . . .it comes through revelation by way of relationship with the Father toward the Son.

Nathan I agree with what you just said, my post was concerning the question did revelation already happen.

My stance is Yes but it will also happen in the future.

As far as things repeating . . . there are patterns, yes . .on the one hand, your telling me that it did happen in the past, and it's going to happen again in the future . .on the other side, I'm being told it "has" to be something happening in the future "because" there is no place where it's happened in the past . .so which is it???

It not either or for me bro, it IS, WAS and IS TO COME for me.
So far from what I have read some here are saying it happened and that's it, all done, Tony is saying it never happened but is a future event.
And I am saying BOTH sides are right, for it happened in 70AD and will again in the future.

Rev. is so hard to explain and is one of the reason I don't usually get involved in the discussions concerning it.

Here is the  preface to my Great White Throne article, which explains how I see Revelation, maybe it will help clear up some of the confusion on what I am trying to say.

Preface

Before we look into what the great white throne is and its purpose we need to be clear on what the book of Revelation is.

The book opens with the words "The Revelation of Jesus Christ".
Revelation comes from the Greek word apokalupsis meaning to unveil or manifest.
So the book of Revelation is all about the unveiling or manifestation of Jesus Christ.
Everything written in this book is about Jesus Christ; there is nothing in this book that does not speak of Him. It is the unveiling of the mystical body of Jesus Christ from head to feet. Our Lord being the head of the body and us being members of that same body.
This whole body is simply called Jesus Christ. This can be seen in Ephesians 3:14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
So when we read this book of mystery we should be reading it with a singleness of purpose and that is to see Jesus Christ. When we read of the judgments spoken so often within this book, we should be looking at how those judgments reveal Jesus Christ. What I mean by that is that the judgments written in this book are for the express purpose of manifesting Jesus Christ to and in us. They are not written to condemn men but to unveil Christ within us. Thus when we read about the judgment of the great white throne which judgment is the second death we should be looking at how that judgment reveals to us and in us Jesus Christ.
The book of Revelation goes on to say "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".
To some it is a future experience, to those who have died and gone on to be with the Lord this experience is already passed, and to us it is a present reality. For this is a book of the unveiling of Jesus Christ which is, which was and which is to come. Every judgment written in this book has already happened, is happening right now and will happen in the future.
Ecclesiastes 1:
9. That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
10. Is there anything of which it may be said, "See, this is new''? It has already been in ancient times before us.

People look at the great white throne judgment and see only a future judgment of a lake of fire and brimstone. Now it is true for some this judgment is a future event yet to happen but for us this judgment is happening right now and for others this judgment is already past.
The scriptures are very plain that the book of Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus Christ which is, which was and which is to come. Can we say in all honesty that those men of generations past never had an unveiling of Jesus Christ, of course we can't. Men like Abraham and Moses most assuredly had Jesus Christ revealed to them. And how could they have had Him revealed to them unless they had gone though the fiery judgments spoken of so often in the book of Revelation?
The scriptures themselves show us in Gen.19:24 and Lu.17:29 the judgment of the great white throne being sent out from the Lord, and that judgment came and will come when the son of man is revealed.
Ezekiel 38:22-23
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Can there be any doubt that the great white throne judgment of fire and brimstone is for the unveiling or manifestation of Jesus Christ? And can we not see that it has happened in the past, is happening right now and will happen in the future? To believe otherwise would be to say that Jesus Christ was not made manifest to people like Abraham and Moses.

[Nathan]

Hi all, did any of you think that it just might be that both views are correct?

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. 10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.


Is that not why scripture say He IS, WAS and IS TO COME?

I've often thot the Is,was and is to come might have something to do with this scripture




Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth (present, is), and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore (will be), Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

just some thots

Are those the keys to the kingdom of heaven?

Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Molly, don't take it out of context.  The keys are not just given to anyone.  It's the same with Revelation. . .I believe that's why it's so confusing and misunderstood . .it's not written to just anyone.  Revelation is for "bondservants"  it's important to understand what one is before assuming who it's really written to.

As for the keys you quote . . .read the whole context.  Christ just stated that "upon this rock"  The keys are what unlock that which the foundation is built on.  They are authoritive by nature, but only to those who have what I'd call the "Peter experience".  They don't come by way of flesh and blood.

Matt 16
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Yes I understand that.  You say the keys are given to his bondservants--whom I will call his [Melchizedek] priests.  Such was Peter.  

I'm just asking --what are these keys.  And, are the keys of hell and death the same as the keys to the kingdom of heaven?

Keys = authority.  Authority is not in the flesh but the spirit.  However, when I exercise that authority in the spirit, I have dominion over natural because Spirit is a higher plain than natural.  But one can't exercise spiritual power while embracing natural reasoning.  It's like being with child, either you are, or your not.  There is "well, I am a little".  But the "appearance" of that spiritual experience is what happens in stages . . just like a pregnancy.  My outward actions change gradually "with" the maturing of the life seed within me.  The more I understand, the more I react to that understanding.  

 Is hell a natural place or a spiritual?  Do you think natural death is what this is referring to here?  Or spiritual?  If you have the spiritual keys, you have power over spiritual and natural realms.  There is no real power in applying the spiritual word naturally.  The outcome is really religion because it comes out of works and labor, rather than rest and relationship.

[rosered]

 
 I just wanted to share this with  everyone
 about revelation happened / happening and will continue to Happen
as Long as Gods Word IS  and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ  seen in this concept
the reason ,  I believe this and have never shared it yet
 is because  of this  the 1000 year reign to me is  930  age of Adam  at death  
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.  and in Psalms  David says  70 years than fly away  , making 1000  total    and  its seems the Lord shortened the days/work  for the elects sake  
 

Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; 70  and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. days of our flesh    

 this is the Lord Jesus Christ to me  70 years was also the captivity of the Jews in Babylon  [confusion]    i see this spiritually  too , there is more to this , but for now something to consider  i hope ?

[pneuma]

 I just wanted to share this with  everyone
 about revelation happened / happening and will continue to Happen
as Long as Gods Word IS  and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ  seen in this concept
the reason ,  I believe this and have never shared it yet
 is because  of this  the 1000 year reign to me is  930  age of Adam  at death  
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.  and in Psalms  David says  70 years than fly away  , making 1000  total    and  its seems the Lord shortened the days/work  for the elects sake  
 

Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; 70  and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. days of our flesh    

 this is the Lord Jesus Christ to me  70 years was also the captivity of the Jews in Babylon  [confusion]    i see this spiritually  too , there is more to this , but for now something to consider  i hope ?

I enjoyed that Rose, 70,70AD these things are not Coincidences

[Nathan]

 :omg:

I feel like I just went over Niagra Falls!!

Rose, I want to ponder on this for a while, but I gotta tell ya . . .this was awesome.  It's one of those "ah ha!" things that my head hasn't fully comprehended . .but the spirit is affirming there's truth there to be had.

Great sharing!!!

[rosered]

 
  I am glad  i done a study on this years ago   , I have them spiritual quickings " lightning bolts"    with you all too  :thumbsup:


enjoyed your piece  Pnuma
  and agree
  and the saints judging the world  I see the great white Throne as those holy ones  dressed in White as the throne of Grace  as God sits in it ,

Daniel 7 and revelation go hand in hand to me , what Daniel saw was to come and John was uopn us   they were the same things  the Cross of Christ IS POWERFUL  and the event that turned the world on its  head ,  bruising it and the Lords footstool heel  1) heel, rear, footprint, hinder part, hoof, rear of a troop,

  footstep

a) heel

b) mark of heel, footprint

c) hinder part, rear

Can there be any doubt that the great white throne judgment of fire and brimstone is for the unveiling or manifestation of Jesus Christ?

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.  
throne Strong's G2362 - thronos θρόνος
Transliteration
thronos
Pronunciation

thro'-nos (Key)

Part of Speech
masculine noun
from thrao (to sit), a stately seat ("throne")

TDNT Reference
3:160,338
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) a throne seat

a) a chair of state having a footstool

b) assigned in the NT to kings, hence, kingly power or royalty

1) metaph. to God, the governor of the world

2) to the Messiah, Christ, the partner and assistant in the divine administration

a) hence divine power belonging to Christ

3) to judges i.e. tribunal or bench

4) to elders



Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


  Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 
them with God /Lamb judging the world

  We are the temple of the Living God  Paul states 

  so much more than this , I cannot grasp it all  /soak it all in at once
  lol   i cannot explain things very well :(
peace

[Molly]

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

--Rev 21



"tabernacle" [of God]

G4633
σκηνή
skēnē
skay-nay'
Apparently akin to G4632 and G4639; a tent or cloth hut (literally or figuratively): - habitation, tabernacle.

[rosered]

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

--Rev 21

:thumbsup:  AWESOME!  :icon_flower: :HeartThrob:

[Taffy]

 I just wanted to share this with  everyone
 about revelation happened / happening and will continue to Happen
as Long as Gods Word IS  and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ  seen in this concept
the reason ,  I believe this and have never shared it yet
 is because  of this  the 1000 year reign to me is  930  age of Adam  at death  
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.  and in Psalms  David says  70 years than fly away  , making 1000  total    and  its seems the Lord shortened the days/work  for the elects sake  
 

Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; 70  and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. days of our flesh    

 this is the Lord Jesus Christ to me  70 years was also the captivity of the Jews in Babylon  [confusion]    i see this spiritually  too , there is more to this , but for now something to consider  i hope ?

Hi sis, :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:icon_flower:



The *END of The World * of the Old man, Old C....?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

witnessed

Duet 34:7 And Moses an hundred and twenty years when he died , (The End of the Old man)

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Comes A Renewing of the FACE of the Earth) :icon_flower:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.
???????????
:icon_flower:

[Molly]

 

and the saints judging the world  I see the great white Throne as those holy ones  dressed in White as the throne of Grace  as God sits in it ,

Daniel 7 and revelation go hand in hand to me , what Daniel saw was to come and John was uopn us   they were the same things  the Cross of Christ IS POWERFUL  and the event that turned the world on its  head ,  bruising it and the Lords footstool heel  1) heel, rear, footprint, hinder part, hoof, rear of a troop,

 footstep

a) heel

b) mark of heel, footprint

c) hinder part, rear

"rear of a troop"


18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

--Ex 33



13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

--Joshua 5



"host" [of the LORD]

H6635
צבאה    צבא
tsâbâ'  tsebâ'âh
tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'
From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship): - appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, [/b]soldiers,[/b] waiting upon, war (-fare).





...whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Jer 51:57

[Molly]

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

[rosered]

 I just wanted to share this with  everyone
 about revelation happened / happening and will continue to Happen
as Long as Gods Word IS  and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ  seen in this concept
the reason ,  I believe this and have never shared it yet
 is because  of this  the 1000 year reign to me is  930  age of Adam  at death  
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.  and in Psalms  David says  70 years than fly away  , making 1000  total    and  its seems the Lord shortened the days/work  for the elects sake  
 

Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; 70  and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. days of our flesh    

 this is the Lord Jesus Christ to me  70 years was also the captivity of the Jews in Babylon  [confusion]    i see this spiritually  too , there is more to this , but for now something to consider  i hope ?

Hi sis, :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:icon_flower:



The *END of The World * of the Old man, Old C....?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

witnessed

Duet 34:7 And Moses an hundred and twenty years when he died , (The End of the Old man)

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Comes A Renewing of the FACE of the Earth) :icon_flower:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.
???????????
:icon_flower:

  Bro G that is got to mean something too ! the law and  grace  120 years ?

  the sons  Adam and Jesus Christ

Luk 3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God.


  Yes I can see that the LAW  of moses  /serviantude  though,
  is was will be in effect    seeing the connections bro 
  I was  comparing the 1000  years reign  in numbers

Deu 34:7 And Moses [was] an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye/ of mental and spiritual faculties was not dim, nor his natural force/moisture , freshness , vigour abated/ to flee, escape

  120 end of flesh

  we have studied this , the 3 musketeers  a while back with many bro
  I can rember there was alot more to it as well 
somewhere in Job maybe
  I never  saved anything  :sigh:


 

[Tony N]

If the day of the Lord came in 70 A.D. and most if not all preterists say John wrote Revelation prior to 70 A.D. then how did John get in "the day of the Lord" before the day of the Lord came?

Tony didn't Abraham see the Lords Day even though it was a far future literal event?

Joh 8:56  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

"Besides this promise of a long mortal life to law keepers, there were much higher ones for the faithful in Israel. As far back as Abraham we find this great future expectation of life. When he was about to offer his son Isaac, he reckoned that God was able also to rouse from among the dead (Heb.11:19). Yet that would only have been a return to the previous mortal life. Beside this, however, he had the faith of those who looked forward to a better resurrection (Heb.11:36), as an entrance into a higher life. This faith was founded on the promises given to him by God that, in the future, the land in which he was an alien would become his allotment (Heb.11:8). In order to realize this he must be given another life after he had died. He received a grand revelation of this expectation of future life of which we do not hear until Christ revealed it to prove to the Jews that He was God's Son, and said, "Abraham, your forefather, exults that he may become acquainted with My day, and he was acquainted with it and rejoiced" (John 8:56). Abraham had a preview of the Lord's day, the millennial kingdom. The exultation he had was based on the certainty that he, by resurrection, must receive a new life, in order to enter this day, and have a part in its blessedness. This future expectation later became the common possession of all faithful Israelites, and its fulfillment their idea of highest bliss."

So Abraham looked into the far off future to see the Lord's day just as John did in his vision we call "Revelation."

[Tony N]

Also is this a future event or has it already happend?or is it both as I maintain?


He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world;  the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;  the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;  42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

pneuma, I say this hoping you are not offended but, your translation leaves alot to be desired.

When the reaping comes as Christ said it would, it is not the end of the world. The world does not end till 1000 years after that when it is destroyed by fire and then a new earth comes. A better translation is the Concordant Literal New Testament which states it this way:

Mat 13:37-43  Now He, answering, said, "He Who is sowing the ideal seed is the Son of Mankind."  (38)  Now the field is the world. Now the ideal seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. Now the darnel are the sons of the wicked one."  (39)  Now the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are messengers.  (40)  Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of the eon."  (41)  The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,  (42)  and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth.  (43)  Then shall the just be shining out as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

The above happens just prior to Jesus setting up His millennial reign on the earth.

John the Revelator saw in his vision the day of the Lord when He comes with vengeance and a sword.

[Taffy]

Yo Sis
Sometime I cant see what RIGHT in Front Me...See it Now though,,yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...RIEGN...Got it. :icon_flower:
To busy seeing Connections...

Thanks Kiddo :icon_flower:

[rosered]

Yo Sis
Sometime I cant see what RIGHT in Front Me...See it Now though,,yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...RIEGN...Got it. :icon_flower:
To busy seeing Connections...

Thanks Kiddo :icon_flower:

  well sometimes i loose me Head lol :idea2:

and i cannot think for nothing  :help:
   my   last post prime example of that, all over the place  and other times it flows  ? 
God help I get  scattered about  :nod:

[Tony N]

Something no preterist or partial preterist has been able to answer satisfactorily is this:

How did each and every event of Matthew 24 and 25 come to pass?

If Jesus meant that no one would see these things come to pass then, what's the point of telling anyone they would visibly come to pass?

If all of them visibly came to pass, why is it that not one person in church history or any historian recorded them as coming to pass in 70 A.D. or before 70 A.D. or after 70 A.D.?

This has much to do with John's vision we call Revelation.

[Molly]

Something no preterist or partial preterist has been able to answer satisfactorily is this:

How did each and every event of Matthew 24 and 25 come to pass?

If Jesus meant that no one would see these things come to pass then, what's the point of telling anyone they would visibly come to pass?

If all of them visibly came to pass, why is it that not one person in church history or any historian recorded them as coming to pass in 70 A.D. or before 70 A.D. or after 70 A.D.?

This has much to do with John's vision we call Revelation.

I think at a minimum it says that the book is still relevant today.

Why that is so, whether because it is spiritual or the events described are going to actually happen to the world, remains to be seen.

However, I do know that there are people who are counting on it playing out in the real world as described, and those who are using it to deceive others. 

All this talk about armageddon these days, and yet we can see from Revelation 20 that if we are talking in the physical, we would see Christ physically reigning on earth for 1000 years before it could happen.  But, in the general consciousness--what is put out there--you would think we are on the verge of it today.  And, some are using that to cower and deceive people.

[Nathan]

We have been told were on the verge every generation in our past.  Remember the book years ago "88 Reasons why Jesus is coming back in 1988"?  And when it didn't happen, there was a revised book "89 Reasons why . . ."  and when that didn't happen, another book "90 reasons why . . ."  That went on for like 5 or 6 years before somebody finally talked him out of continuing his quest to date the rapture.

We've stated the evidence on this thread that both Scripture and historians DID document those things that transpired and were directly connected to the prophetic words of Daniel, Matthew and Revelation . .but the responses are being rejected . .there's really no place else to go with this other than down

[Molly]

well, if you take something like the gov of Illinois who was just arrested for trying to sell the vacant senate seat, you really have to wonder what kind of progress we've made in 2000 years.

It seems that the world is as corrupt as ever. 

It would be nice to have something to look forward to--like Jesus running the show,--because the rest of it gets very discouraging.

[Zeek]

Something no preterist or partial preterist has been able to answer satisfactorily is this:

How did each and every event of Matthew 24 and 25 come to pass?

we each see through our lenses, our paradigms.  For many, satisfactory answers have been provided; just as I don't think u/futurists have satisfactorily shown why the "at hand" verses were innacurate.  

 

[Zeek]

well, if you take something like the gov of Illinois who was just arrested for trying to sell the vacant senate seat, you really have to wonder what kind of progress we've made in 2000 years.

It seems that the world is as corrupt as ever. 

It would be nice to have something to look forward to--like Jesus running the show,--because the rest of it gets very discouraging.

I appreciate that you used the word "seems".  Because to me, I see the opposite. 

[Molly]

well, if you take something like the gov of Illinois who was just arrested for trying to sell the vacant senate seat, you really have to wonder what kind of progress we've made in 2000 years.

It seems that the world is as corrupt as ever. 

It would be nice to have something to look forward to--like Jesus running the show,--because the rest of it gets very discouraging.

I appreciate that you used the word "seems".  Because to me, I see the opposite. 

How so?  I could use some encouragement right now.

[Zeek]

The system that was in place that kept one "locked" up has been fulfilled.  This journey is now a journey we can all discover; the types and figures are fulfilled.  God is no longer dealing with man through types and figures. 

For me, the prison  door has been opened.  People are hungry, people are looking and hearts are vulnerable.  Unity is being realized. 

For me, I can "see" it in my heart.  The people I work with are such amazing people, many who don't claim Christ as their savior.  Their love is amazing.  I'll talk later, got to get to work.