The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[Tony N]

O.K. everyone, can we get back to John's Revelation?

If the kingdom came in 70 A.D., if Jesus came to rule over the earth in 70 A.D. if the 12 ruled with Christ beginning in 70 A.D., how come nobody noticed? Not even the Christians back then noticed.

Did not Jesus say concerning the coming of the kingdom:

Luk 17:23-24  "And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing."  (24)  For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day."

When lightning flashes it is apparent to all. It is not in secret. There are some people in verse 23 above which Jesus warns us about who will say 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' as in "here is the kingdom Christ set up or there is the kingdom Christ set up! But do not follow them because Jesus said when it comes it will be like lightning flashing from one point under heaven to another point under heaven. It will be obvious to all.

Some have been posting here who say it is already on the earth thus falling withing the group in verse 23.

[Taffy]

O.K. everyone, can we get back to John's Revelation?

If the kingdom came in 70 A.D., if Jesus came to rule over the earth in 70 A.D. if the 12 ruled with Christ beginning in 70 A.D., how come nobody noticed? Not even the Christians back then noticed.

Did not Jesus say concerning the coming of the kingdom:

Luk 17:23-24  "And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing."  (24)  For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day."

When lightning flashes it is apparent to all. It is not in secret. There are some people in verse 23 above which Jesus warns us about who will say 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' as in "here is the kingdom Christ set up or there is the kingdom Christ set up! But do not follow them because Jesus said when it comes it will be like lightning flashing from one point under heaven to another point under heaven. It will be obvious to all.

Some have been posting here who say it is already on the earth thus falling withing the group in verse 23.

we are Tony, they are the scripts which you posted,,well a verse anyways, thought Id care to share the Context you mentioned to zeek by  only quoting one verse..
is that OK? :icon_flower:

, its Ok to differ yes? :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Ha . .I'd forgotten manna tasted like wafers of honey . . .I remember the fish part, it was the honeycomb I couldn't remember.

:icon_flower:

[Molly]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

So are you saying that Jesus did not literally feed the multitude?

Because I think he did.

And, you know--we could do that today.

Except satan enjoys turning breadbaskets into wastelands, because he likes to see people starve to death.

[Tony N]

O.K. everyone, can we get back to John's Revelation?

If the kingdom came in 70 A.D., if Jesus came to rule over the earth in 70 A.D. if the 12 ruled with Christ beginning in 70 A.D., how come nobody noticed? Not even the Christians back then noticed.

Did not Jesus say concerning the coming of the kingdom:

Luk 17:23-24  "And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing."  (24)  For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day."

When lightning flashes it is apparent to all. It is not in secret. There are some people in verse 23 above which Jesus warns us about who will say 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' as in "here is the kingdom Christ set up or there is the kingdom Christ set up! But do not follow them because Jesus said when it comes it will be like lightning flashing from one point under heaven to another point under heaven. It will be obvious to all.

Some have been posting here who say it is already on the earth thus falling withing the group in verse 23.

we are Tony, they are the scripts which you posted,,well a verse anyways, thought Id care to share the Context you mentioned to zeek by  only quoting one verse..
is that OK? :icon_flower:

, its Ok to differ yes? :icon_flower:

Fire away matey!  :happygrin:

Just don't put yourself in the verse 23 group saying the kingdom came secretly. Or I'll have to come over there to your country and knock some sense into ya!  :laughing7:

[Nathan]

You keep saying things that are presumptuous rather than factual.  If you go back to that era I can promise you EVERYONE knew what happened to Israel.  They ALL were aware of the slaughtering that took place.  So to say that no one knew is just inaccurate.  It was the coming of the Lord's Judgment upon a nation that chose to "let his blood be upon us and our children".  It wasn't the coming of the Lord as redeemer or comforter, but judge.  The end DID come . . .otherwise they would still be making animal sacrifices today.

We're not even in the same age as they were in.  History states and Acts even gives reference to the historical accounts that in those days there was a great increase of false prophets who would come in and decieve many by claiming "they" were the Christ.  the reason this exploded was because after Jesus clearly explained that he was not there to literally take the throne from the Romans, but he was their to take the throne spiritually, that those looking to profit themselves took advantage of a nation still looking for something that had already come and gone . .much like the traditional thinking people today.  Still looking for something to come when it's come and gone.

The only time natural repeats itself, is when God orchestrates it to do so in order to fulfill his original plan of declaring Christ as the head of the body.  Adam, put to sleep, woman removed from within him to manifest without him so God could bring the two back together . . .so they could once again become one, to reproduce after their own kind.

Jesus, put to sleep at the hand of a Roman soldier through the manipulation of religious priests . .but still all planned previously by God . . .out of him, a bride was also poured out he called the church and she to was removed from within Christ so that she could be joined back to him from without for the purpose of reproducing after "his" own kind.

But the revelation of Jesus was given "in the spirit" through spiritual language to reproduce spiritual life.  It manifested in the natural to the nation to whom it was originally written.  For those of us who are grafted in generations later, it still applies, but moreso spiritually than naturally.

Keep throwin the natural curves, I'll keep swinging the spiritual bat.  Every natural thing has a spiritual application.  It's not about being mystic, it's about pursuing that which is profitible to the maturiting of the saints.  Christ has come, is come and will continue to be coming.  his coming is a personal revelation to the individual being and also to the natural man.  That's the city cubed.  Christ fulfills all things in every dimension.  He already came as a judge and the world OF THAT DAY was fully aware of it. He's not going to come as a judge again . . .the next time (for me) that he manifests his coming to this earth, it will be as King of Peace . . .the message of the Word is the sword and those that die by it is the carnal man in all of us.

When all men come into the awareness of the unexplainable nature of Christ, they will wilingly lay down their weapons of warfare.  Some have already come into that now and even though, I do still tend to get caught up in a warring atmosphere at times, I still choose to see myself as on with plowshares as priority over weapons.  The Word of God is not my weapon to weld, but it's my source from where all seeds come from to be planted in the fields of other's who are willing to recieve and let God grow the truth in their understanding without the laboring mind trying to weed out what it can't comprehend.

[Nathan]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

So are you saying that Jesus did not literally feed the multitude?

Because I think he did.

And, you know--we could do that today.

Except satan enjoys turning breadbaskets into wastelands, because he likes to see people starve to death.

Of course he did it physcially.  But the point is, what we see physically done, we're to apply spiritually.  Those people he fed eventually got hungry again.  The more we try to pursue the natural things the hungrier we become because the natural can not satisfy what is in the spirit.  Only the Spirit can satisfy your spirit.

[Taffy]

Fire away matey!  

Just don't put yourself in the verse 23 group saying the kingdom came secretly. Or I'll have to come over there to your country and knock some sense into ya!  

:laughing7:
Wes Gentlmen here T, its Pistols come Dawn at Ten Paces :icon_joker:

but Id be happy to settle over a Pint of Chilled British Ale

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Why 10??  What are ya tryin' ta say???  Ya gonna shoot me at the risin of the Sun over law?

Sorry . . .couldn't resist. :bgdance:

[Molly]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

So are you saying that Jesus did not literally feed the multitude?

Because I think he did.

And, you know--we could do that today.

Except satan enjoys turning breadbaskets into wastelands, because he likes to see people starve to death.

Of course he did it physcially.  But the point is, what we see physically done, we're to apply spiritually.  Those people he fed eventually got hungry again.  The more we try to pursue the natural things the hungrier we become because the natural can not satisfy what is in the spirit.  Only the Spirit can satisfy your spirit.

Yes, but...let me ask you this.

If no one can see the starving people as long as their own belly is full, are they missing the spiritual?  And, if they are missing the spiritual, are they then leaving that domain to satan?

Or, more specifically, since the 20th Century belonged to satan, are we spiritual folks ever planning to take it back, before he proceeds with his plan to destroy the planet?  This has to do with a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation because it is not until God dwells with man in his own tent that the New Jerusalem will be here for everyone.



31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

--Mat 25

[Taffy]

Why 10??  What are ya tryin' ta say???  Ya gonna shoot me at the risin of the Sun over law?

Sorry . . .couldn't resist. :bgdance:

yup Judgment matey.... :laughing7:

[Nathan]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

So are you saying that Jesus did not literally feed the multitude?

Because I think he did.

And, you know--we could do that today.

Except satan enjoys turning breadbaskets into wastelands, because he likes to see people starve to death.

Of course he did it physcially.  But the point is, what we see physically done, we're to apply spiritually.  Those people he fed eventually got hungry again.  The more we try to pursue the natural things the hungrier we become because the natural can not satisfy what is in the spirit.  Only the Spirit can satisfy your spirit.

Yes, but...let me ask you this.

If no one can see the starving people as long as their own belly is full, are they missing the spiritual?  And, if they are missing the spiritual, are they then leaving that domain to satan?

In pursuing the spiritual, you are fulfilling the natural as well.  One equips you to do serve the other.

Or, more specifically, since the 20th Century belonged to satan, are we spiritual folks ever planning to take it back, before he proceeds with his plan to destroy the planet?  This has to do with a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation because it is not until God dwells with man in his own tent that the New Jerusalem will be here for everyone.

First, the only reason why the 20th century belongs to the adversary is because man is still identifying himself with the days of labor and not rest.  This line of thinking is not something that can be "blended into" one's current doctrinal beliefs . . .it's a complete paradigm shift within our own identity.



31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, (the throne of my heart) and all the holy angels (Messengers/message) with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (within Me)

32And before him shall be gathered all nations:(within me are cities of my nature and character, belief systems, doctrines with walls that he's had to bring down so that "he" can take the cities in me)  and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Word of God, dividing Spirit from Soul . . .within ME)
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, (Spiritual fruit within me) Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (This is why I pursue the spirit.  Flesh profits nothing, but the spirit brings forth life)

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.   (When we walk in the spirit, we're not always aware that we are serving the master through our actions toward others, as it's his spirit working in us both to WILL and to do is good pleasure)
--Mat 25




When we enter into the spirit, it "equips" our flesh. 

[Zeek]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

So are you saying that Jesus did not literally feed the multitude?

Because I think he did.

And, you know--we could do that today.

Except satan enjoys turning breadbaskets into wastelands, because he likes to see people starve to death.

Of course he did it physcially.  But the point is, what we see physically done, we're to apply spiritually.  Those people he fed eventually got hungry again.  The more we try to pursue the natural things the hungrier we become because the natural can not satisfy what is in the spirit.  Only the Spirit can satisfy your spirit.

Yes, but...let me ask you this.

If no one can see the starving people as long as their own belly is full, are they missing the spiritual?  And, if they are missing the spiritual, are they then leaving that domain to satan?

In pursuing the spiritual, you are fulfilling the natural as well.  One equips you to do serve the other.

Or, more specifically, since the 20th Century belonged to satan, are we spiritual folks ever planning to take it back, before he proceeds with his plan to destroy the planet?  This has to do with a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation because it is not until God dwells with man in his own tent that the New Jerusalem will be here for everyone.

First, the only reason why the 20th century belongs to the adversary is because man is still identifying himself with the days of labor and not rest.  This line of thinking is not something that can be "blended into" one's current doctrinal beliefs . . .it's a complete paradigm shift within our own identity.



31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, (the throne of my heart) and all the holy angels (Messengers/message) with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (within Me)

32And before him shall be gathered all nations:(within me are cities of my nature and character, belief systems, doctrines with walls that he's had to bring down so that "he" can take the cities in me)  and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Word of God, dividing Spirit from Soul . . .within ME)
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, (Spiritual fruit within me) Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (This is why I pursue the spirit.  Flesh profits nothing, but the spirit brings forth life)

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.   (When we walk in the spirit, we're not always aware that we are serving the master through our actions toward others, as it's his spirit working in us both to WILL and to do is good pleasure)
--Mat 25




When we enter into the spirit, it "equips" our flesh. 

Thanks Nat for your contribution, you have further helped me iron out some paradigm shifts for me.

Z

[Tony N]

You keep saying things that are presumptuous rather than factual.  If you go back to that era I can promise you EVERYONE knew what happened to Israel.  They ALL were aware of the slaughtering that took place.  So to say that no one knew is just inaccurate.  It was the coming of the Lord's Judgment upon a nation that chose to "let his blood be upon us and our children".  It wasn't the coming of the Lord as redeemer or comforter, but judge.  The end DID come . . .otherwise they would still be making animal sacrifices today.

Nathan, I'll cut to the main point.
Jesus said:
Luk 17:23-24  "And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing."  (24)  For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day."

You say it came when Jerusalem was destroyed. The Bible does not say Christ would come when Jerusalem was destroyed.

The Bible does not say the kingdom would come when Jerusalem was destroyed.

The Bible does say however that there are to be many different things occur BEFORE the kingdom and BEFORE Christ comes again. And Jesus said when it comes it will not come with scrutiny. In other words you won't have to squint your eyes to try to find it. It will be like lightning flashing brilliantly from east to west. It will be apparent to all who see it. Christ's kingdom which is supposed to bring down every kingdom is never said to be a spiritual, invisible kingdom.

So let's stick with the Bible.

[Taffy]

It seems to me that during Jesus' earthly ministry He was constantly and consistently using the physical things to teach spiritual truths.

Hi ibelieve and Welcome :icon_flower:

Indeed, I too believe that to be very much the case.


:icon_flower:

[Molly]

First, the only reason why the 20th century belongs to the adversary is because man is still identifying himself with the days of labor and not rest.  This line of thinking is not something that can be "blended into" one's current doctrinal beliefs . . .it's a complete paradigm shift within our own identity.

What does this mean to you?  Does it mean I sit back and do nothing?  Or does it mean that I am the right hand of God on earth, and if I am doing his will, it will happen easily?  Or something else altogether.

If a farmer loves to farm, it's not necessarily labor to him, particularly with all the modern farming techniques that have been developed--more a labor of love.  But, satan pays him not to farm, until his fields run fallow.  Satan forecloses on his house and farm.  And,all the world starves.

I am very practical.  Show me something practical.

[Nathan]

You keep saying things that are presumptuous rather than factual.  If you go back to that era I can promise you EVERYONE knew what happened to Israel.  They ALL were aware of the slaughtering that took place.  So to say that no one knew is just inaccurate.  It was the coming of the Lord's Judgment upon a nation that chose to "let his blood be upon us and our children".  It wasn't the coming of the Lord as redeemer or comforter, but judge.  The end DID come . . .otherwise they would still be making animal sacrifices today.

Nathan, I'll cut to the main point.
Jesus said:
Luk 17:23-24  "And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing."  (24)  For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day."

You say it came when Jerusalem was destroyed. The Bible does not say Christ would come when Jerusalem was destroyed.

The Bible does not say the kingdom would come when Jerusalem was destroyed.

The Bible does say however that there are to be many different things occur BEFORE the kingdom and BEFORE Christ comes again. And Jesus said when it comes it will not come with scrutiny. In other words you won't have to squint your eyes to try to find it. It will be like lightning flashing brilliantly from east to west. It will be apparent to all who see it. Christ's kingdom which is supposed to bring down every kingdom is never said to be a spiritual, invisible kingdom.

So let's stick with the Bible.

That's half the problem . . .I thought I "was" but it doesn't seem to be working with you.

Check this out and see what happens this time.

Matthew 24
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

First question . . .what stones are Jesus referring to?

And "if" you say the temple buildings, my next question would then be, if "they" saw the collapse of the temple to be connected with the end of the world, why are you having so much trouble with it?

[Molly]

That's half the problem . . .I thought I "was" but it doesn't seem to be working with you.

Check this out and see what happens this time.

Matthew 24
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

First question . . .what stones are Jesus referring to?

And "if" you say the temple buildings, my next question would then be, if "they" saw the collapse of the temple to be connected with the end of the world, why are you having so much trouble with it?

Very good point, Nathan.  It is the end of the Levite priesthood, and the beginning of something new, a new priesthood based on an eternal life.  The beginning of a new aion.  What we call the New Testament.

But Babylon never went away, and still has its death grip on the world.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

[Nathan]

First, the only reason why the 20th century belongs to the adversary is because man is still identifying himself with the days of labor and not rest.  This line of thinking is not something that can be "blended into" one's current doctrinal beliefs . . .it's a complete paradigm shift within our own identity.

What does this mean to you?  Does it mean I sit back and do nothing?  Or does it mean that I am the right hand of God on earth, and if I am doing his will, it will happen easily?  Or something else altogether.

If a farmer loves to farm, it's not necessarily labor to him, particularly with all the modern farming techniques that have been developed--more a labor of love.  But, satan pays him not to farm, until his fields run fallow.  Satan forecloses on his house and farm.  And,all the world starves.

I am very practical.  Show me something practical.

I wish I could Molly . . . but you use a different key chart than I use.  You see the devil as this high ranking evil being in control of all the darkness . .and I see the devil as the image in my mind that my ego has created.  So I can't really give you what you're asking for on that level.

But you're right, farmers do what they do because they love the land, they love their work . . in fact, it's just as you said, it's  not work to them, it's life.  Well, that's the same here.  Planting seeds in others is not work of labor, it's a function of life.  Some soils are harder to plant in than others.  Some soils are nearly unplantable all together.  But as a planter, the seed is released regardless because that is the "function" and life of the farmer.

It's not the farmers responsibility to keep checking the seed to see if it's taking root or not.  Once it's planted, the farmer stays away and let's the seed do what seeds do.  But when it comes to people, many assume it's their responsibility to not only plant, but to also water and grow the seed in others.  And "if" the plant doesn't sprout up into what they think they planted . . .they try to change it's nature . . .which is impossible once the seed has already taken root, it is what it is.

The seed is the Word of God . . .not just the Bible . .but life giving truth to another.  If it's rejected, we can't very well go back and force it into the ground . . .we can't expect a ground producing thorns (a cursed mind) to recieve good seed because the thorns choke it out.  The life of the Word get's choked out by the choking . .another word for "conforming" mind of the controling nature of man.

I look at us as kings.  A king does not labor in his wishes.  he makes a proclamation and it's carried out without question.  Did the king work?  No, he "functioned" within his rightful authority as king.  When we proclaim life in each other, those words take root in our natural surroundings and objects respond . . . it's the mystery of quantum.  But it's all through faith.

Roman's 1 opens up with Paul refering to the "gospel of faith".  He didn't carry a Bible around and quote it and convince others that if anyone came in and stated anything that "appeared" to be contrary to this Bible that they should reject it.  his gospel was the gospel of "faith".  It's a "belief" in the unseen things.  His message was one of being free from tradtions and law.  His warning was to avoid those who still claimed there were laws that we needed to heed to.  My comfort zone has boundaries . . .there are certain subjects and I feel free in "to a certain point".  

Faith is not hesitating when I reach the boundaries of my comfort zone.  Faith is trusting in Christ in all things, especially in the areas where my mind can not see into.  The crazy thing is, once I take captive those conforming thoughts, I begin to get glimpses of what lies beyond my veil of understanding.  

[Paul Hazelwood]

What does this mean to you?  Does it mean I sit back and do nothing?  Or does it mean that I am the right hand of God on earth, and if I am doing his will, it will happen easily?  Or something else altogether.

I think it means to live as you believe the spirit is guiding you and living in faith is seeing that God does the work in others the way he needs it to be.

My parents did what they believed was right,  Church Sunday morning, Sunday evening,  Wednesday evening and all week long evening if it was a revival service.

That planted the seeds God intended for me to have,  but it grew to a much different way of believing than my parents would have wanted.   

I see a spiritual progression, rather than looking back to see all the things my parents did that I did not like,  I see that it was intended that they remain mostly physical in this life, while I also remain in the physical to some degree, the spiritual nature is  more present in my life than it was theirs.   I also see that my sons are alot like I am in that manner, yet, sometimes their spiritual faith is greater than mine.  It doesn't mean I cannot grow spiritually, it only means that there are just some things that God intends that we cannot do anything about.

I look upon that in awe because I have noticed the same things in other families generations.

I once heard a minister that asked the question, are you less religious than your parents?

The answer for my own life is yes, the minister was actually trying to paint the negative view that since we are less religious, then we do not love God as much as our parents may have.

However, I do not see it that way,  I see a greater spiritual progression of societies around the world, and yes some hate the fact that alot of that includes beliefs other than our own.

But mostly I see those who cringe at things like that are dealing with more lawful physical aspects of a belief system.

But, I see it is evidence that God is guiding humanity, and it excites me greatly.

[Molly]

The crazy thing is, once I take captive those conforming thoughts, I begin to get glimpses of what lies beyond my veil of understanding. 

And, what is it?  What is it you see?

But, I see it is evidence that God is guiding humanity, and it excites me greatly.

Sometimes I do, too.  These kids, for instance, I don't know where they came from, but they live for truth.  They won't accept lies like the rest of us.  They demand truth.  How could a generation raised on illusion come to that?  It has to be God.

But, then satan just goes on doing his satan-y thing, and that's the end of that.  But I don't think these kids will stand for it.  This world will be theirs some day.  I hope.

[Taffy]

Matthew 24
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the


First question . . .what stones are Jesus referring to?

And "if" you say the temple buildings, my next question would then be, if "they" saw the collapse of the temple to be connected with the end of the world, why are you having so much trouble with it?

Well Nat, I dont think they be the Rolling stones, Mick Jagger is not even that Old.


FOR mine,
as for the latter , .....sign OF the END of the WORLD....,one can see two fold, the end of the age , no more BLACK stones,those ones saul cast his vote with, but equally so, the END of the WORLD within, Christ BEING the "END" of the salvation of our Souls,,HE being the " Beginning and END "of our FAITH, ie Moving from Faith to Faith.

[Molly]

Matthew 24
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the


First question . . .what stones are Jesus referring to?

And "if" you say the temple buildings, my next question would then be, if "they" saw the collapse of the temple to be connected with the end of the world, why are you having so much trouble with it?

Well Nat, I dont think they be the Rolling stones, Mick Jagger is not even that Old.


FOR mine,
as for the latter , .....sign OF the END of the WORLD....,one can see two fold, the end of the age , no more BLACK stones,those ones saul cast his vote with, but equally so, the END of the WORLD within, Christ BEING the "END" of the salvation of our Souls,,HE being the " Beginning and END "of our FAITH, ie Moving from Faith to Faith.

The stones  that were under the water.


8And the Israelites did as Joshua commanded, and took up twelve stones out of the midst of the Jordan, according to the number of the tribes of the Israelites, as the Lord told Joshua, and carried them over with them to the place where they lodged and laid them down there.

    9And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of the Jordan in the place where the feet of the priests bearing the ark of the covenant had stood. And they are there to this day.

--Joshua 4




20And those twelve stones which they took out of the Jordan Joshua set up in Gilgal.

    21And he said to the Israelites, When your children ask their fathers in time to come, What do these stones mean?

    22You shall let your children know, Israel came over this Jordan on dry ground.

    23For the Lord your God dried up the waters of the Jordan for you until you passed over, as the Lord your God did to the Red Sea, which He dried up for us until we passed over,

    24That all the peoples of the earth may know that the hand of the Lord is mighty and that you may reverence and fear the Lord your God forever.

--Joshua 4


"Gilgal"

H1536
גּלגּל
gilgâl
ghil-gawl'
A variation of H1534: - wheel.





H1534
גּלגּל
galgal
gal-gal'
By reduplication from H1556; a wheel; by analogy a whirlwind; also dust (as whirled): - heaven, rolling thing, wheel.

[Tony N]

No the stones were in the air. They used to be standing but then the slipped and fell down and could not get up.

[Molly]

No the stones were in the air. They used to be standing but then the slipped and fell down and could not get up.

Yes, some, not all.  These:

9And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of the Jordan in the place where the feet of the priests bearing the ark of the covenant had stood. And they are there to this day.



But now is a new building, not built with hands, with Christ as the cornerstone.  Those were the ones pulled out of the Jordan.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;