The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[Taffy]

Hi Scarletwren

We havent met, but nice to see you on the Thread participating and airing your thoughts, Thanks For sharing,you make some valid points

To me, Revelation is something that has happened, is happening and will happen.

IS WAS AND WILL BE, yes tis how I see it too.

youll have to forgive my grammer..tis awful, as is My tuyping and Shpelllling :icon_flower:

Good to see you at Tent :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

the measuring of the temple is one piece of the puzzle, but when taking the whole picture into consideration, the immediancy of scriptures, the "some standing here.... verse", the "this generation verse...., the gospel preached to the whole world then the end comes, and Paul stating the gospel was preached to the whole earth, the "no one knows the hour, yet in I John, it is not the "last hour", the "one stone will not be left standing" and the destruction of the temple, the Josephus account, the fact that the temple has never been rebuilt, the symbolism, the "apocrolyptic sp??" examples given earlier, the "you" statements to those alive at the time, the suffering the apostles went through and the hope they hung onto etc.  I could go on and on. 

Hi Zeek, the first thing the disciples asked the Lord during the 40 days after His resurrection from the dead was this:

Act 1:6-7  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  (7)  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

In other words, the restoring of the kingdom to Israel by taking it out of Roman hands was not to be at this time. It never happened during the Acts period. It never happened while some of the disciples were killed off. It must occur when all the disciples are alive and reigning on twelve thrones. All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel. They must be alive when the kingdom is restored to Israel and the twelve reign with Christ bodily in Jerusalem. So the immediacy verses are yet future.

[Zeek]

All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

[Tony N]

I'd still be interested Tony, which scriptures you think apply to today, during your parenthetical "church" age?  Which Pauline epistles was Paul wrong on, and which one's was he right on??  When did he receive the "secret"?  and do any of the books written by John, James and Peter apply to the "church age"?

Zeek, you are asking me to prove the unprovable. Paul was not wrong on any epistle he wrote.

Look at the address on the envelope of Peter, James and John's epistles. To whom were they written.

Paul was given the "administration of the secret" which none of the circumcision writers were given in the New nor Old Testaments.

He was given one of the secrets either prior to or when he wrote his epistle to the Roman ecclesia:

Rom 11:25 For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering."

So Israel was set aside until the complement of the nations may be entering.
When John wrote Revelation he did not know about this for it was only given to Paul. It was a secret.

Now back to when Revelation was written.
How did John, while on Patmos get to Jerusalem to measure the temple? The Berean guy says the temple had to be standing for John to measure it. But the New Jerusalem had to be on the earth for John to see it being measured too. Revelation says it came down out of heaven and landed on the earth.

[Tony N]

All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

Zeek, it is so easy to take a verse and build an improper premis on it. What is the context of what Christ said above? That should be your primary consideration:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."

So "even if he should be dying" means that those who believe in Him should be dying. But that is not the end. They shall be living via a resurrection to life and those who are resurrected shall not be dying in the future.

And yet they are still dead. So how are we to take what Christ said? It is meant for when they are resurrected. They shall never die THEN.

[Molly]

While I agree that there are many spiritual dimensions to Revelation, I know that there are many who are reading these scriptures literally who want to see them fulfilled literally.  They want to rebuild the temple, and return to animal sacrifice, and rule the world from the real Jerusalem. They do not think Jesus is the Messiah.  They think the Messiah has not come, yet.  They think they are/will be the Messiah themselves. Others are supporting them.  Look at the book just released by Hagee.  I know this to be the case and have read about it for years.  

So I am sort of leaning in Tony's direction of a literal playing out of things, up to a point.  I am hoping God will put a stop a to it.  The question is how far into it do we get before He does?  These things are being brought down by man.   Don't you know that man has wanted to rule the whole world  since the first kingdom, Babylon?  To me, this is a perfectly insane desire for power.   They are insane.  But they have enough power to make it happen, or give it a good try.  Look at the cameras going up on every street corner throughout the Western world.  I'm sure that's happening because they are worried about little old ladies being mugged...NOT.

Right now the world is experiencing all the famines, plagues, death, and destruction written about in the book.  Just because it hasn't come to your neck of the woods does not mean it's not happening.  Nor does it mean it couldn't be stopped tomorrow if people wanted it to stop.  But they won't! :sigh:

[ScarletWren]

Hi Taffy,

Nice to meet  you also.  I've already 'met' Tony on another thread.  I enjoy reading your differing viewpoints.  It's ok about your spelling and typing.  I've worked as a secretary many years and still even tho I proof before I post, I miss typos and occasional misspellings.  We can pretty much figure out what most people are saying anyway.

I do enjoy this forum.  On 'another' forum any time you post a view differing from the mainstream there you are just plain 'wrong'.  I didn't stay there long.  Too much of that in Babylon.

Have a great day.

[Zeek]

All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

Zeek, it is so easy to take a verse and build an improper premis on it. What is the context of what Christ said above? That should be your primary consideration:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."

So "even if he should be dying" means that those who believe in Him should be dying. But that is not the end. They shall be living via a resurrection to life and those who are resurrected shall not be dying in the future.

And yet they are still dead. So how are we to take what Christ said? It is meant for when they are resurrected. They shall never die THEN.

I hear ya, for me, the whole context can be summed up as "Revealtion of Jesus Christ". 

How do you know the apostels are still dead??

[Tony N]

Further proof that John was looking into the far off future is the fact that there were no Jewish churches in those seven cities in Asia when he received his vision.

Writers/theologians today make the seven churches stand for seven church ages (which is never spoken of in all the Bible) because they know they never existed when John wrote Revelation.

[Nathan]

the measuring of the temple is one piece of the puzzle, but when taking the whole picture into consideration, the immediancy of scriptures, the "some standing here.... verse", the "this generation verse...., the gospel preached to the whole world then the end comes, and Paul stating the gospel was preached to the whole earth, the "no one knows the hour, yet in I John, it is not the "last hour", the "one stone will not be left standing" and the destruction of the temple, the Josephus account, the fact that the temple has never been rebuilt, the symbolism, the "apocrolyptic sp??" examples given earlier, the "you" statements to those alive at the time, the suffering the apostles went through and the hope they hung onto etc.  I could go on and on. 

Hi Zeek, the first thing the disciples asked the Lord during the 40 days after His resurrection from the dead was this:

Act 1:6-7  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  (7)  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

In other words, the restoring of the kingdom to Israel by taking it out of Roman hands was not to be at this time. It never happened during the Acts period. It never happened while some of the disciples were killed off. It must occur when all the disciples are alive and reigning on twelve thrones. All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel. They must be alive when the kingdom is restored to Israel and the twelve reign with Christ bodily in Jerusalem. So the immediacy verses are yet future.

For me, this is like all of the other parables Jesus taught and nobody got without Jesus having to set down and explain it to them word for word.  It's the same picture as to why the Roman soldiers put a crown on Jesus, they were mocking him as king . .but the whole point was, Jesus was always speaking from a spiritual plain, not a natural one.  He didn't come to literally be king of a natural Israel.  It was never about seeing it naturally.  He "is" the King of kings and Lord of lords.  We are the kings he is King over . .but it's a SPIRITUAL position.  He's not going to be king in the future . . .he's KING of the NOW.

[Tony N]

All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

Zeek, it is so easy to take a verse and build an improper premis on it. What is the context of what Christ said above? That should be your primary consideration:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."

So "even if he should be dying" means that those who believe in Him should be dying. But that is not the end. They shall be living via a resurrection to life and those who are resurrected shall not be dying in the future.

And yet they are still dead. So how are we to take what Christ said? It is meant for when they are resurrected. They shall never die THEN.

I hear ya, for me, the whole context can be summed up as "Revealtion of Jesus Christ". 

How do you know the apostels are still dead??

Because if they were brought back to life you would know that

Christ and they would all be bodily reigning in Jerusalem.
Christ said: "Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and perceive, for a spirit has not flesh and bones according as you behold Me having" (Luk 24:39).

He was saying He was not a spirit. He had flesh and bones. Spirits don't have flesh and bones. When He comes back He will come back with flesh and bones just as they saw Him ascending into heaven.

If the 12 were brought back to life, Israel's Messiah would be arriving out of Zion and all Israel would be saved and the nations would have been completed (Romans 11).

This has not happened in 70 A.D. not before 70 A.D. and not after 70 A.D. yet.

John, in his vision called "the unveiling of Jesus Christ" looked into the far off future and saw Christ unveiled in His day called "the day of the Lord."

[Taffy]

Further proof that John was looking into the far off future is the fact that there were no Jewish churches in those seven cities in Asia when he received his vision.

Writers/theologians today make the seven churches stand for seven church ages (which is never spoken of in all the Bible) because they know they never existed when John wrote Revelation.

Doesnt ANY bible student grasp seven is the Perfection of ONE...ONE CHURCH, ONE BODY,ONE BAPTISM, ONE BODY.

Like we are going to See Christ HOLD the churches IN HIS HAND as he Watlzes about, it symbolism..

[Nathan]

Further proof that John was looking into the far off future is the fact that there were no Jewish churches in those seven cities in Asia when he received his vision.

Writers/theologians today make the seven churches stand for seven church ages (which is never spoken of in all the Bible) because they know they never existed when John wrote Revelation.

Whoever told you the churches didn't exist then are twisting truth to fit their theology.  Just looking at the seven listed . .the church of "Ephesus"???  Sound familiar?  Paul wrote Ephesians to this same church . .of course they existed then.

The fact that were were "7" churches is extremely telling.  God has a universal language . .it's not Hebrew, Greek or english . . .the language he uses is in the creation established by his Word.  Romans 1:20 . . he uses natural things to reveal spiritual truth . . .the earth is God's language.  Which means . .colors, metals, objects, animals and numbers are all used as his alphabet.  He uses four horses that are colored . .. to understand what they are, one needs to realize what the number four represents . .what a white horse is to a black horse  . .and what a horse is . . .all these things are used to manifest the character and nature of Christ.  

The number 7 is the same thing.  It's for completion and perfection.  This is a revelation given to the "whole" church.  But the thing about the church is . . .it's established in the second dimensin FOR THE PURPOSE TO ENABLE US TO ENTER INTO THE THIRD.  Problem is, the church has failed to do that. They have set up camp in the ministry arena, but can't seem to realize that there's a whole other dimension beyond the ministries.  The one thing Jesus addressed to ALL the churches . . ."I see your works . .. I see your works . .I see your works"  It's the same with the passage that Jesus addressed about not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will actually be able to enter into the kingdom . . .because their identity is in their "works" rather than in their "relationship" with the Father.

[Tony N]

the measuring of the temple is one piece of the puzzle, but when taking the whole picture into consideration, the immediancy of scriptures, the "some standing here.... verse", the "this generation verse...., the gospel preached to the whole world then the end comes, and Paul stating the gospel was preached to the whole earth, the "no one knows the hour, yet in I John, it is not the "last hour", the "one stone will not be left standing" and the destruction of the temple, the Josephus account, the fact that the temple has never been rebuilt, the symbolism, the "apocrolyptic sp??" examples given earlier, the "you" statements to those alive at the time, the suffering the apostles went through and the hope they hung onto etc.  I could go on and on. 

Hi Zeek, the first thing the disciples asked the Lord during the 40 days after His resurrection from the dead was this:

Act 1:6-7  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  (7)  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

In other words, the restoring of the kingdom to Israel by taking it out of Roman hands was not to be at this time. It never happened during the Acts period. It never happened while some of the disciples were killed off. It must occur when all the disciples are alive and reigning on twelve thrones. All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel. They must be alive when the kingdom is restored to Israel and the twelve reign with Christ bodily in Jerusalem. So the immediacy verses are yet future.

For me, this is like all of the other parables Jesus taught and nobody got without Jesus having to set down and explain it to them word for word.  It's the same picture as to why the Roman soldiers put a crown on Jesus, they were mocking him as king . .but the whole point was, Jesus was always speaking from a spiritual plain, not a natural one.  He didn't come to literally be king of a natural Israel.  It was never about seeing it naturally.  He "is" the King of kings and Lord of lords.  We are the kings he is King over . .but it's a SPIRITUAL position.  He's not going to be king in the future . . .he's KING of the NOW.

Dear Nathan,
When Jesus is "King of kings and Lord of lords" he will be telling all kings what to do and all lords what to do.
In this present era Christ is still in heaven awaiting.

This verse shows Him being King of kings and Lord of lords as yet future:

1Ti 6:15 which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords,

When will He be showing He is? When He takes over all the earth from Jerusalem. That happens in the future as written in Rev.11:15.

[Taffy]

All the disciples/apostles are still dead. They must be alive in order to reign over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

Zeek, it is so easy to take a verse and build an improper premis on it. What is the context of what Christ said above? That should be your primary consideration:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living."

So "even if he should be dying" means that those who believe in Him should be dying. But that is not the end. They shall be living via a resurrection to life and those who are resurrected shall not be dying in the future.

And yet they are still dead. So how are we to take what Christ said? It is meant for when they are resurrected. They shall never die THEN.

I hear ya, for me, the whole context can be summed up as "Revealtion of Jesus Christ". 

How do you know the apostels are still dead??

Because if they were brought back to life you would know that

Christ and they would all be bodily reigning in Jerusalem.
Christ said: "Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and perceive, for a spirit has not flesh and bones according as you behold Me having" (Luk 24:39).

He was saying He was not a spirit. He had flesh and bones. Spirits don't have flesh and bones. When He comes back He will come back with flesh and bones just as they saw Him ascending into heaven.

If the 12 were brought back to life, Israel's Messiah would be arriving out of Zion and all Israel would be saved and the nations would have been completed (Romans 11).

This has not happened in 70 A.D. not before 70 A.D. and not after 70 A.D. yet.

John, in his vision called "the unveiling of Jesus Christ" looked into the far off future and saw Christ unveiled in His day called "the day of the Lord."

Tony try a Little of what you just said to ZEEK :icon_flower:

OY YE of Little FAITH,they percieved the NATURAL, not the spiritual, he had YET to return a SECOND TIME without observation.

they believed NOT FOR JOY, JOY if ya want proof is another Hidden TERM for Christ.

Why Broiled FISH and Honey?...or was that all what was left in the cupboard :happygrin:

Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?


Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.


Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?


Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.


Luk 24:43 And he took [it], and did eat before them.


Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.


Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,  Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

[Molly]

For me, this is like all of the other parables Jesus taught and nobody got without Jesus having to set down and explain it to them word for word.  It's the same picture as to why the Roman soldiers put a crown on Jesus, they were mocking him as king . .but the whole point was, Jesus was always speaking from a spiritual plain, not a natural one.  He didn't come to literally be king of a natural Israel.  It was never about seeing it naturally.  He "is" the King of kings and Lord of lords.  We are the kings he is King over . .but it's a SPIRITUAL position.  He's not going to be king in the future . . .he's KING of the NOW.

Yes, he is for you and for me.  But don't you see a day when Christ will rule the world?

Or is this mess as good as it gets on earth according to you?

[Taffy]

For me, this is like all of the other parables Jesus taught and nobody got without Jesus having to set down and explain it to them word for word.  It's the same picture as to why the Roman soldiers put a crown on Jesus, they were mocking him as king . .but the whole point was, Jesus was always speaking from a spiritual plain, not a natural one.  He didn't come to literally be king of a natural Israel.  It was never about seeing it naturally.  He "is" the King of kings and Lord of lords.  We are the kings he is King over . .but it's a SPIRITUAL position.  He's not going to be king in the future . . .he's KING of the NOW.

Yes, he is for you and for me.  But don't you see a day when Christ will rule the world?

Or is this mess as good as it gets on earth according to you?

What Christ reigns over MOLLY is DEATH, and those who REIGN now with HIM also do , blessed are They.

What matters Molly is DEATH is BEAT, if for now some realise that or not ,so this Mess we live in now,  is hardly a  comparrison
For it will all end very quickly.

[Nathan]

So when he took the pains to say "It is finished" . . .he also, while hanging on the cross, jumped into a futuristic time to proclaim it's finished . . .THEN???

Sorry, I'm not buying into that.  All things are complete in him . . .now.  Which is to say, all things prophesied to happen have already spiritually happened.  And when we choose to walk in the spirit, we also walk in the "finished" works and can also see the end from the beginning.  But the more we embrace the natural, the more we miss out on releasing the spiritual life and power in others.

I don't disagree that Christ is still to come in the flesh . . . and i can see the "just as you saw him go" piece relate also.  I don't argue that the natural realm is not yet complete.  But I believe what is going to bring the natural into completion, will be those who are in the spiritual that begin trumpeting what is already finished in the spirit, is now to be finished in the flesh.  Jesus prayed that himself "thy kingdom COME thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven.

Kinda hard to proclaim completion in the flesh if we can't see it already finished in the spirit.

[Molly]

For me, this is like all of the other parables Jesus taught and nobody got without Jesus having to set down and explain it to them word for word.  It's the same picture as to why the Roman soldiers put a crown on Jesus, they were mocking him as king . .but the whole point was, Jesus was always speaking from a spiritual plain, not a natural one.  He didn't come to literally be king of a natural Israel.  It was never about seeing it naturally.  He "is" the King of kings and Lord of lords.  We are the kings he is King over . .but it's a SPIRITUAL position.  He's not going to be king in the future . . .he's KING of the NOW.

Yes, he is for you and for me.  But don't you see a day when Christ will rule the world?

Or is this mess as good as it gets on earth according to you?

What Christ reigns over MOLLY is DEATH, and those who REIGN now with HIM also do , blessed are They.

What matters Molly is DEATH is BEAT, if for now some realise that or not ,so this Mess we live in now,  is hardly a  comparrison
For it will all end very quickly.

He came so we could have life and have it more abundantly.  That could be a reality today for everyone, if only those with the power to make it happen would wake up!  Instead, the tent cities are growing by the hour, and how many are lost each day to starvation?  How many to diseases that we have already cured?  It's shameful.

While Christians fight their phoney wars and look for some pie in the sky, and satan continues his murder by death.

[Taffy]

Hi Taffy,

Nice to meet  you also.  I've already 'met' Tony on another thread.  I enjoy reading your differing viewpoints.  It's ok about your spelling and typing.  I've worked as a secretary many years and still even tho I proof before I post, I miss typos and occasional misspellings.  We can pretty much figure out what most people are saying anyway.

I do enjoy this forum.  On 'another' forum any time you post a view differing from the mainstream there you are just plain 'wrong'.  I didn't stay there long.  Too much of that in Babylon.

Have a great day.

Its good to have ya here , I hope your hang around awhiles ,and thanks for seeing past my errors :icon_jokercolor:

Tony dont recall. we chatted some over at another forum a few yrs back , went as KT themdays

Ditto
have a Great day yaself :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

He came so we could have life and have it more abundantly.

The abundance is LIFE itself , HIM in US, through HIM life  Is FULLNESS. :icon_flower:

[Molly]

He came so we could have life and have it more abundantly.

The abundance is LIFE itself , HIM in US, through HIM life  Is FULLNESS. :icon_flower:

Yes, of course.  But what did he do?  He fed people.  He healed people.

As if we couldn't do that today..and, not even needing a miracle to do it.

[Nathan]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

[Taffy]

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It's not about feeding people who are hungry with natural food . . .Taf, I'd love to hear your take on the representation of the fish and honeycomb . . . but it's about Christ feeding us through each other.

Would you like to have one lump?  Or two??

No sugar for me Bud ,Thanks, Like a few cookies to please.

Yup Bro, Self pollination ,..The manna was SWEET as Honey.

Read this a while back and kept it..like ya do from Time to time.

Deborah (bee) was a warrior (battled evil) was a prophet (pollinated the people with revelation from the spirit) and judged between good and evil. I see that we each have the ability to self pollinate now (each endowed with the Holy Spirit)

The bee has the most complex and detailed functional language among the animals. Let's say that a bee has located a particularly good source of nectar and returns to the hive to tell its friends where it is. Our bee dances a figure eight, with the cross points at the center of the eight giving the direction of the nectar in relation to the sun. As the bee dances on the wall of the honeycomb, the position of the sun is always down. If the bee moves up the comb wall at 17 degrees to the left of vertical, it means the honey is 17 degrees to the left of the sun. This communication even works on cloudy days, since bees can see the ultraviolet light that penetrates the clouds. Distance is communicated by the speed of the dance.

Neither man's languages, nor the bees' language evolved - they were given by God. Why else would the bee indicate direction relative to the sun in the same way that human beings do? That the bee is the best communicator in the animal world, and not the apes, helps to show that language cannot be explained by evolution.

As For Fish ,Not only symbolic of the FISH( men- who dwell in the sea beneath),..Rosey shared this with me a while back,
Can be attributted to the HOPE which Lays in the heart of ALL MEN( Christ Our HOPE of Glory)

Mar 6:41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave [them] to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.

Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Ha . .I'd forgotten manna tasted like wafers of honey . . .I remember the fish part, it was the honeycomb I couldn't remember.