Matthew 13 -- Wheat & Tares

[Kimberlaina]

I've been studying the book of Matthew for the first time from a UR viewpoint and of course I'm hung up on the wheat and the tares.  I've searched the threads discussing this on Tentmaker and I'm still having trouble reconciling this passage.  I know that many people here believe that the wheat is the spiritual man and the tares are the carnal man, but I have a lingering question despite reading all of these explanations -- if these aren't individual people, why does Jesus personify them?  Why not just let them stand for generic good and evil?

[Zeek]

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[rosered]

if these aren't individual people, why does Jesus personify them?  Why not just let them stand for generic good and evil?

  Hi Kim ,

To  me   each name  has a meaning ,  giving a nature   
Lazurus means ''whom God helps ''   John means God is a gracious giver ,   Paul means small  or little , to me  Paul was the least that =shall become the greatest in the  Kingdom    start to finnish ..    Jesus said  John the baptist was least  and those whom  eter are greater than he  , because to me John the Baptist represented   the end of the Law  of moses and the begining of Truth and Grace By Jesus Christ  , the  Kingdom  come by violence  till  Christ  come  and  was  rebvealed though He was here from the Begining ..


all of us have good and evil in us , every last one   born  naturally and born spiritually  as well 
    Hope  this helps you some how sis
  love ..rose

[barbierir]

Hi
to me the parable of wheat and tares is a strong argument pro universalism. But I've read many, like in the post below, who have difficult with this parable. Indeed I've never seen it used in universalist writings. I'm struck by this and I wonder if I'm making it too easy, so I'd like to know your opinion about my view.

The usual reading tells the grain (God' sons) are the good men and the tares (the devil's sons) are the evil men, but to me this doesn't hold water at all. Evil men are by no means sons of the devil, they're as sons of God as the good men and Jesus further says the tares where sown by the devil after God had sown the wheat.

I see only two possibile interpretations:

A) the sons of God are the good deeds and the sons of devil are the evil deeds

or

B) the sons of God are the men and the sons of devil are the sins that entangle men

in either case the sins/evil deeds get burned away, in case A this says nothing either for or against universalism, in case B this is another very strong argument for universalism: the tares get burned with crying and gnashing of teeth but all the men, even those more entangled with tares, get saved. To me this stand up to par with the parable of the good shepard.

What's your opinion about this? Am I wrong?

Renzo

[rosered]

   Hi Renzo..
  you did a good job  explaining  :thumbsup:

  the Good  seed is   CHRIST /  WORD OF GOD sowed in our  hearts

the darnel /weeds look  similar   till  mature


1) a kind of darnel, resembling wheat except the grains are black

  wheat is useful and the  darnel  is useless

[Sarah]

On a spiritual level this does signify that at the end of my life, God will burn those things that are tares and keep the wheat, but when reading the text I think it is important to put it into perspective as to the times Jesus was addressing. The Romans were occupying the land and allowing the Jewish people to inhabit their land, but it was a volitile situation. He gave the warning that when you see the armies surround the city, flee. Those who were close to Him and His teachings knew that when they saw the Roman army surround the city to flee. This actually happened. Titus surrounded the city ready to take it down, but then they were called away to deal with another emergency. At this time the Christians fled the city. Soon the army returned and destroyed the temple, marking the end of the age. The tares were those who did not follow Christ, but remained faithful to the sacrificial system, they were literally burned in the fire. The wheat were the Christians who escaped the judgement.

[Zeek]

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (age); and the reapers are the angels.

1Jn 3:3  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jn 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

1Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[Zeek]

1Jn 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[Zeek]

I think that burning the tares is a burning of "non believers", the house come crashing down, left desolate with a perpetual shame.  A fire to bring down one's pride.

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:




Faith can be tried by fire

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold thatperisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


But faith is not a sin that needs to be purged, gathered up/bundled up to burn.

[barbierir]

I think that burning the tares is a burning of "non believers", the house come crashing down, left desolate with a perpetual shame.  A fire to bring down one's pride.

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Faith can be tried by fire

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold thatperisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


But faith is not a sin that needs to be purged, gathered up/bundled up to burn.

All men have tares that must be burned, even the faithful, some have less tares, some have more, some even an awful lot, so the more he has and the more he'll suffer in burning the tares. Paul says at 1 Corinthians 3:15: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire." This quote is perfectly consistent with the parable of wheat and tares.

Renzo

[Zeek]

I think that burning the tares is a burning of "non believers", the house come crashing down, left desolate with a perpetual shame.  A fire to bring down one's pride.

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Faith can be tried by fire

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold thatperisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


But faith is not a sin that needs to be purged, gathered up/bundled up to burn.

All men have tares that must be burned, even the faithful, some have less tares, some have more, some even an awful lot, so the more he has and the more he'll suffer in burning the tares. Paul says at 1 Corinthians 3:15: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire." This quote is perfectly consistent with the parable of wheat and tares.

Renzo

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[Zeek]

No mixing of law and grace. 

you can't put old wine in new wine skins.

Wages of sin is death.

He who believes in me, will never die.
believest thou this??

[Zeek]

We are a NEW CREATION

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Jn 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[Molly]

Jesus himself explained the wheat and the tares.




36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

--Mat 13

[Zeek]

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Php 4:7  And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

understanding:

G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.


1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

passeth all understanding.


Heb 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[rosered]

 
Hi everyone  :icon_flower:
  you all have done a great job , explaining and going into details

another   saying of Jesus that also goes with the reapers''to cut down '' /are  the angels ''messengers '' /men  of God

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

  the Faith part you brought in Zeek is  a very good comparison  :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:

[Kimberlaina]

I'm coming from a Calvinist background and I feel like I'm tripping over it every time I read this verse.  These are the thoughts I have so far . . .

-The wheat and the tares are entangled.  If they're not obviously separate, that helps the case that it has to do with the good and evil that dwell within each of us.

-What is the end of the age?  Many say that an age ended/began when Jesus was crucified.  Is *this* when the tares were burned, or is Jesus talking about the end of a different age?

-Let's say the tares are unbelievers.  Does being thrown into the furnace = hell or annihilation?  Or is another force at work there?

Thanks for all your helpful commentary.  I'm still trying to figure this one out.

Kimberlaina  :icon_flower:

[Zeek]

In Galatians, Paul talks of Abraham's two sons. 

I think they relate to the tares and wheat.

u might find this article helpful

http://www.presence.tv/cms/twosons.php

[Zeek]

  the Faith part you brought in Zeek is  a very good comparison  :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:

Mat 9:22  But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

[Zeek]

Psa 11:5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psa 11:6  Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Psa 11:7  For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.


Mat 17:20  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Psa 1:6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

[Zeek]

Psa 5:8  Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

Psa 5:9  For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulcher; they flatter with their tongue.

Psa 5:10  Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.

Psa 5:11  But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.

Psa 5:12  For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favor wilt thou compass him as with a shield.

[Zeek]

Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.

Gal 4:25  For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.

Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


two covenants

those who held onto the old=tares, children of the bondwoman, Ishmaels; who persecuted the first century church, whose pride in the law system had to be crushed. 


the new:  those given faith, eyes to see, who turned away from the old system.  FAITH.  rewarded.


One to be burned, one to be rewarded.  In the end, the consumation of an age (the old covenant age). 

In with the NEW, the new covenant age. 


Some saved from the fire, many were not saved. 

But with the changing of the covenants, All reconciled through the NEW

[Taffy]

Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.

Gal 4:25  For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.

Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


two covenants

those who held onto the old=tares, children of the bondwoman, Ishmaels; who persecuted the first century church, whose pride in the law system had to be crushed. 


the new:  those given faith, eyes to see, who turned away from the old system.  FAITH.  rewarded.


One to be burned, one to be rewarded.  In the end, the consumation of an age (the old covenant age). 

In with the NEW, the new covenant age. 


Some saved from the fire, many were not saved. 

But with the changing of the covenants, All reconciled through the NEW

:thumbsup:
Old Man , New Man , Night , Day ,Slave, Heir, babe\Child , Son etc

[Molly]

Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

That must have been a sour note on the ears of tyrants in Paul's day.  Any wonder why they were burning them at the stake?  Any wonder why this concept is still surpressed in churches today?  Any wonder why even today the powers that be are terribly threatened by Christianity?

It all comes down to one radical word--freedom.



Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

[Kimberlaina]

I'm still feeling confused about this.  I'm just . . . stuck.  I don't know.  It's bothering me.   :sigh:

The tares are personified.  It's hard to get around feeling like they're actual people.

So . . . the fire in this passage must not be something that wholly destroys people, it's a passage that proves annihilationism, or I'm all wet in thinking that the tares are some sort of people and it's a commentary on good vs. evil.  Or maybe it's a passage that talks about destruction awaiting those who fail to convert to the New Covenant.  Can anyone here make a coherent argument for any of these?

Thanks again.