Eagles and the spirit.

[Taffy]

I know there may be some negative connatation to eagles, but there is the scripture that says "They'
that WAIT upon the Lord shall be LIKE Eagles........"

To me,. Jesus "is" the GREAT Eagle, and his Words and His Spirit are the wings of the EAGLE.

Likewise Red :thumbsup:

Pro 23:5  Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for [riches] certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.

Isa 40:30  Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:


Isa 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.

Blessings
Taffy

[Livelystone]

RLV said

I know there may be some negative connatation to eagles, but there is the scripture that says "They'
that WAIT upon the Lord shall be LIKE Eagles

.

I Agree Red and they are just like angels that are messengers of both good and evil............ however we call bad angels demons. Eagles that soar up into heaven does not sound to me that they are going back into the wilderness to die.

Since the time of Christ we have been encouraged to come out the church of false worship and disobedience which is exactly why Israel was sent back into the wilderness to die.

IMO we see just that with the woman giving birth (overcomers coming out) of her by choice and then she goes to the wilderness on the wings of evil spirits to be fed by the dragon until she dies. (goes to sleep) This was her special place just like Judas had a special place. As Paul said all will change but not all will sleep.

However this is just my opinion alone and non elders are responsible for their opinions only.......... I guess you could call that my .02 and disclaimer of responsibility for anyone else than myself if I am wrong.

Peace and Blessings

Douglas

[Redlettervoice]

.


Just too much to copy but using a concordance type in "wilderness" Doug and just notice all the
different things that happen there.  Looks too like there might be more than one kind of wilderness.

[Livelystone]

.


Just too much to copy but using a concordance type in "wilderness" Doug and just notice all the
different things that happen there.  Looks too like there might be more than one kind of wilderness.

I have and strongs #2048 as it appears in the scripture that is in question is not a good thing by either definition or how it used in all the other places where I saw it used. (a fair amount). I am going to rest in my belief the God is not the author of confusion and it means just as how it is described and is used

1 Corr.10: 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Blessings

Doug

[reFORMer]

(Rv 12:9 seems to equate the dragon and the serpent.)

Notice the following three points are adversarial to the woman:  In v.13 it 1.) persecutes the woman.  It then attempts 2.)to cause the woman to be carried away by the current of a river out of its mouth in v.15 and then goes away to do 3.) battle with the rest of her seed in v.17.

Considering the woman to be carried into the wilderness, at least in part, for protection from the serpent it leaves the serpent passive between points 2.) and 3.) above, yet remaining consistent with its ill intent.  The woman is being nourished, not "'out' from the face of the serpent," but "in spite of", or, "'away' from the face of the serpent."

---JMR

[Livelystone]

(Rv 12:9 seems to equate the dragon and the serpent.)

Notice the following three points are adversarial to the woman:  In v.13 it 1.) persecutes the woman.  It then attempts 2.)to cause the woman to be carried away by the current of a river out of its mouth in v.15 and then goes away to do 3.) battle with the rest of her seed in v.17.

Considering the woman to be carried into the wilderness, at least in part, for protection from the serpent it leaves the serpent passive between points 2.) and 3.) above, yet remaining consistent with its ill intent.  The woman is being nourished, not "'out' from the face of the serpent," but "in spite of", or, "'away' from the face of the serpent."

---JMR

Have you ever watched winged predators feed their young? They do it mouth to mouth, face to face and dragons are winged predators . Go take a look at the original languages and how this words used in every other place it is used.......

The teaching of the woman being protected from the serpent in this verse is old school ET rapture stuff........ this woman is being fed just like Eve was when she was fed a bunch of lies by the serpent who too is a woman........ the passage even talks of the flood (words) being swallowed up by earth (flesh).

Christians have been deceived far to long on some of these verses. If one wants to believe that the woman in this scripture is being protected by God and fed by God in this passage they do not have a single witnesses in scripture to support their conclusion. This word is used 7 times in scripture and each time it has the giver (whether person, location or principality) and receiver being nourished and named together in the verse.  (or a question as to who in Matt.25: 37)......... This verse is no different than the other six and God is not the author of confusion........ Satan is !

It is time to let go of the traditions of man's church of darkness that makes the Word of God to be of no effect and step out into the light of the truth! This woman is the nominal church stuck in the wilderness that fed you all those lies you have been hearing since being a child.

Go look at the tail of the dragon and see who he is as well as who the stars that are swept from heaven represent. It is the same thing all over again........ Satan deceiving Christians by using the church (woman, Eve, soul) to do so.

Blessings

Doug

[Redlettervoice]

Hey Doug,

Sounds like the "wilderness" perhaps does to the "men of war" what it does NOT do to the Spirit!

Maybe that's it!  All the men of war kept the children of Isreal in the "wilderness" TIL .......all the
"men of war" were gone, and Joshua and Caleb are the Word and Spirit?

That was noushised later on...........in spite of .........?

Just some thoughts.

I guess "this is my party and I'll cry if I want to, .........you would cry too, if it happened to YOU: maybe
we sing that song while we are in the wilderness of the old testament stuff, and perhaps we sing
the song that no man could sing but the you know who later  ....?

I always wondered how a "woman" who gave "birth" to the very MANchild himself, could be one place
and the MANchild that she brought forth could be singing over her from up ABOVE! ????

Gotta get them back together. ha

You are right! It's all between your ears.  Who said that? I forgot! Maybe it wasn't you , but I agree.

[reFORMer]

    (I'm really posting at 12:45 in the wee hours after midnight.)
    The eagle's head ("to his own Lord he stands") is 3/4 eyes.  I think I remember it is from 2 miles away they can see a "gnawer" (fr.lit.Hbr. for "mouse".)  For their ability to remain at great heights and see great distances they represent the spiritual life and visionary prophetic.  Along with the lion among the faces of the cherubim they are unclean for eating; but, so also is the man.  The only "clean" beast here is the calf or ox, which also is the only one who transforms, and that into an angel.
    I know I'm justified by what God did in Christ; but it remains legitimate to be aware if someone does or does not do as I can say I really do:  seek and serve God the best I know how.  But the Bible is not God.  My faith is overwhelmingly in a living and present God.  While I can say I believe in the Bible, it's influence is very much less than my experience with God.  The Holy Spirit has disciplined me to recognize much of what I used to think was belief in the Scripture was actually belief in my limited understanding of Scripture.  Big difference!
     I construct an understanding of Scripture the best I can, knowing what it is in its entirety is inconceivably beyond my capacity, at least until after the metamorphosis of my physical body to an incorruptible state.  I seek to be uncompromising in my alignment with the truths expressed in Scripture while in tension with maintaining my humility before its vastness, making adjustments to increasing light as rapidly as possible.  An "interpretation" of certain Scripture portions, particularly those heavily symbolic, even if those interpretations are exhumed from the past, do not make me an unhealthy ally of "tradition" nor do I unwaveringly hold to the interpretation being examined.
     About 40 years ago one of the first couple of particulars to come into question about what I'd been raised in as a child was the "Rapture" doctrine, which is a label for many unscriptural ideas masquerading as Christian prophecy for events near at hand.  There's still a multitude debunking Darby/Scofieldism compared to the very little about a true eschatology.  Since 1973 I've known endless torture was not taught in the Scripture.   July 18, 1981 at 3 a.m. is a point in time I memorialized because, following intensive study of the Greek term "eon," I believed 1 Tim 4:9-11:  "God...is the savior of all men, specially of those that believe."  I walked with God for some time before I was more enlightened concerning these and other important facts.  The gate of entrance is the person of Jesus, not an every jot and title accurate knowledge of Scripture.  His manifest presence is the evidence of how much I've entered.  Among other things in those early days God lifted the water of a lake up before my face and underneath was dry ground.  There He said to me, "With God, all things are possible."
     D. Barton Payne gave us a sizable volume called Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy.  Using his calculations, after "Christ," the prophetic topic with the second largest number of verses, three times as many as any other, is "Babylon."  Hidden within the Bible, every little boy and girl carries to Sunday School a book called, "Mother of Whores."  Yet the best selling books on the Church in the last couple of decades that I've examined remind us of the ostrich in the wilderness.  Perhaps their lack of judgment explains their popularity.  They make no mention of a false vine, false brethren, or the harlot:  Babylon.  She is not the Church.  The Church does not deceive us.  It is Babylon that "lies in wait at every corner" (Pr 7:12) to seduce.  The Ecclesia is God's girlfriend, the wife Christ died to obtain.  Too many use the term "Church" to refer to the Institutional Church which is more properly Babylon.  God's people are "called out" of Babylon, not out of the Church.
     In Rv 12 is one of the 2 "great" signs, seen in the heaven, a woman travailing and tormented to be bringing forth her child.  I personally like this portion a great deal.  I understand the description to be a parallel of many other threefold things in the word (like Jesus' 30, 60 and 100 fold [Mt13:8; Mk 4:8 and again in v.20]) which I will not here enumerate.  Many of you are familiar with this.  The moon corresponds to the outer court of the temple for instance.  It is a people in the heaven but it's still dirt.  It is solitary as Adam nature is an individual soul.  Their way is still determined in relation to the earth.  Their light is in the night.  Their glory is still reflected:  like the law reflects God, they reflect the sun-clothed woman who is a corporate entity.  They are under the authority of the Woman, "at her feet."  The woman's authority is worn on her brow.  Though a wreath of victory, it is imparted, referential, made of stars that are signs.  She knows on her ground appeared the twelve fathers of the tribes and apostles of the lamb.  The authority of the male she births is intrinsic to him, his nature, his destiny.  He, "...is about to be shepherding all the nations in an iron club."
     The immature hear of greater authority, higher dimensions, superior ranks and claim it theirs by a sort of faith in the thought of of it.  The reality is if any are to get there ahead of the rest of the Church it is only to bring the rest in.  The wilderness is a place of testing for approval to qualify and is a precursor to entering in.  Before the division into Israel and Judah the 3 kings (mind to rule) were Saul who "ruled in Israel 40 yrs," often used to represent the fleshy believer; "a just man," as those born of spirit, anointed from man made "vials," the anointed flesh.  David (meaning:  "the beloved") is Christ in us.  His is a threefold anointing from a horn, representing power in maturity from the death of a servant beast.  He subdued the flesh, the enemies against the nation of God.  The outcome of the house of David is Solomon who brings in the glory, the flesh glorified, the 100 fold "Manchild" realm peculiarly marked by wisdom.  The parallel to draw attention to is David fleeing from the face of Saul who seeks to kill him.  (A personal word:  the name I feel appropriate for "my" church is "The Cave of Adullam."  I hope I can mature and not be stuck here.)  Now listen to Zechariah 12:7-8: (These categories and their stories echo features of Rv 12,) "The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.   In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. "  Here we find a kind of scale describing degrees of entrance into the glory of the presence of God when He "seizes" (as His own possession,) "harpazo" s (Greek) His chosen, when they cross over into incorruptible life to nevermore die.
     It seems very inconsistent to read, "The woman who brought forth the male" (12:13) as Babylon; that it's Babylon's, "...seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus." (12:17)  In v.6, "they" are "...nourishing her 1260 days."  In v.14, passively, "She is nourished."  And how is the next phrase (v.14) to be considered, "From the face of the serpent?"
    ---JMRohde

[Livelystone]

 

It seems very inconsistent to read, "The woman who brought forth the male" (12:13) as Babylon; that it's Babylon's, "...seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus." (12:17)  In v.6, "they" are "...nourishing her 1260 days."  In v.14, passively, "She is nourished."  And how is the next phrase (v.14) to be considered, "From the face of the serpent?"

Revelations is not the first time good and evil are pictured coming to the church or to man. As it says in the OT He puts before us the way of life and the way of death. There are more examples of it in the NT but this is the one that comes to my mind first.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

The true and the false apostle both speak to and from the same place. We are told to get out of her but then in turn we will be the ones used by God to bring her to Him as prophesied in Luke 6: 1,

Blessings

Doug

[Redlettervoice]

In Rv 12 is one of the 2 "great" signs, seen in the heaven, a woman travailing and tormented to be bringing forth her child.  I personally like this portion a great deal.  I understand the description to be a parallel of many other threefold things in the word (like Jesus' 30, 60 and 100 fold [Mt13:8; Mk 4:8 and again in v.20]) which I will not here enumerate.  Many of you are familiar with this.  The moon corresponds to the outer court of the temple for instance.  It is a people in the heaven but it's still dirt.  It is solitary as Adam nature is an individual soul.  Their way is still determined in relation to the earth.  Their light is in the night.  Their glory is still reflected:  like the law reflects God, they reflect the sun-clothed woman who is a corporate entity.  They are under the authority of the Woman, "at her feet."  The woman's authority is worn on her brow.  Though a wreath of victory, it is imparted, referential, made of stars that are signs.  She knows on her ground appeared the twelve fathers of the tribes and apostles of the lamb.  The authority of the male she births is intrinsic to him, his nature, his destiny.  He, "...is about to be shepherding all the nations in an iron club."
   

OK APOC I see who you are NOW!~ Checked your profile.

Well, I got a "little" from all that you were speaking after midnight.  I am UP after midnight too!

I wrote a post and then it slipped into cyberspace, but I will see if I can reword it.

My questioning mind was on this "reflecting" part................we all know that the "woman" was clothed with the SUN, she had the MOON under her feet
when she gave birth to the MANchild.

I see the SUN like the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.  And the MOON the lesser light, or the law of sin and death.........

If you can understand my questions, tell me, didn't this same "woman" KEEP the Sun clothes?

What in heck was she doing in the wilderness having to be nourished from the "face of the serpent" anyway........if she had the moon under her feet?

What happened here?

I never knew this question was even IN ME. ha

.....................................

Hi Doug, I see you've added a response while I was rephrasing and retyping my questions.

This is an interesting study...............hope my questions do make a little sense.

[Livelystone]

Hi Red

Sorry I took so long to respond

You have made an excellent point about why the woman is in the wilderness when she is suppose to be in heaven. After all both 1st Peter(1:4) and Revelation (chap 21:2,3) have the "acceptable" woman in heaven before coming to earth. I guess it is going to take awhile for all of us to shake the teachings of man from our minds but as Paul says we may see darkly now but that too will change.

We are required to worship in truth but I have a feeling that to much 'strong drink and meat" (doctrines) are often used on both sides to the detriment of the Body of Christ. However I am not just speaking of those with knowledge shunning others but the verbal onslaught and accusations of those without knowledge directed towards those who have it.

It is another "partition" that needs to be torn down by the truth of Christ. Only from the rubble that is left can we build a "true wall" just as they did in Nehemiah. That prophecy depicts today's Christian and church....... first the stones come from outside of Israel just as the unsaved come in from the outside world to Christ but then the glory leaves the them just as it did the temple (church). However up from the rubble of broken pride and worldly rudiments a House of God will be constructed where the Law that is spiritually understood and not just naturally will be taught. Then the  glory of the latter will be greater than the former and they will be the ones to offer up acceptable praises to heaven so that Jesus will finally have a place to rest His Head.

Peace and Blessings

Douglas