:cloud9: Interesting. I've seen an eagle 3 times while praying with someone. The first time, attention was directed at it's back. It was very tall, taller than an average man. The shoulders looking at it from the back, it's what was specifically to be my focus. As I watched intently, they changed into a purple robe.
The second time, about a year after the first time, I was praying with someone I had just met in another state. The Lord told me to stand on his right side. I did, and was shocked to see the eagle again and sense like a giant wing wrap itself around me like it was standing where he was and it was his wing. I suddenly felt what I could only describe, as a Spirit of holiness, and in the Spirit I saw myself walking beside someone unseen, thru a garden only there were trees in there too. I was stunned and kept weeping and thanking God. I refused to move for like 15 minutes, because I didn't want it to ever end.
The third time, I was in a kingdom oriented fellowship, and saw an eagle in the Spirit swoop down and scoop up a baby in it's wings, which I was given to understand was that body. It brought to my memory the scripture in Isaiah about bearing us up on eagles wings. So from my perspective, I don't think it's anything bad at all. Blessings to all.....
Somewhere the eagle carried a serpent too........ I believe it was something to do with Dan. I do not know where but if you check Stephen Jones archives it might show up.
It would seem to me the the eagle has to do with spirit (eagles gathering by carcasses) but how do you know the manner of spirit without viewing how it flies and what it does?.............. demons are just "bad angels". Also as one of the beast natures around the throne it would also seem to be making a reference to a nature.
It was one of the 4 things that Solomon did not understand but there is an abundance of questionable company along where it is mentioned in Prov. 30 :18,19.
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: Eagles swoop down on snakes. And if I'm not mistaken they don't eat carrion, preferring the life to be in their meal. They make their nests in the clefts of rocks ;). And they fly above the storm. Bill Britton wrote an excellent little article years ago, called Eagle Saints Arise, likening them to the overcomers. I never understood why eagles would be at the scene of a carcass, but I do now. They witness the flesh of Him being no more. Blessings.......
Well actually most eagles are vultures and especially the bald eagle who is known to frequent garbage dumps. The way you can tell is the feathers on the legs.......... ones like the golden eagle are true predators.
I like Bill Britton a real lot and he was the first person I heard of when I got out that believed what I had found to be true. I was really bummed when I found out he had passed and I am sorry for all the leeches and ungodly people that use his good name to draw attention to themselves.
However I if someone offered me a ticket to go into the wilderness and be fed by a serpent that represents the dragon that represents pharaoh that represents bondage to sin and flesh.........I will pass on the offer.
If that is a mistake on my part it will not be my first.
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: What you said, went right over my head, sorry, not exactly sure what you meant. I was speaking of natural things in regards to the snakes they eat. It is the national symbol of Mexico, too, because of this. However, I still see something spiritual in them, though. We are told that them that believe will pick up snakes (lift up the serpent natures of man into the mind of Christ).......Blessings to you.......
I think Doug is referring to this:
Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
:cloud9: Oh, OK.......well that's what happens when I haven't had my morning coffee, yet..... :winkgrin: thanks for translating for me Molly ;)
Quote from: Molly on September 02, 2007, 04:57:00 PM
I think Doug is referring to this:
Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
That is correct Molly
IMO that is another misunderstood verse but in most circumstances it speaks the truth of those who claim to have carried away in this manner, at least the ones whom I have met. God has ways of getting people to admit the truth even when they do not know they are doing so.
Blessings
Doug
QuoteHowever, I still see something spiritual in them, though. We are told that them that believe will pick up snakes (lift up the serpent natures of man into the mind of Christ).......Blessings to you.......
Perhaps, as man was made in the likeness of God, some of the animals might have been made in the likeness of other beings in heaven.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
--Revelation 12
Quote from: Cardinal on September 02, 2007, 04:48:31 PM
:cloud9: What you said, went right over my head, sorry, not exactly sure what you meant. I was speaking of natural things in regards to the snakes they eat. It is the national symbol of Mexico, too, because of this. However, I still see something spiritual in them, though. We are told that them that believe will pick up snakes (lift up the serpent natures of man into the mind of Christ).......Blessings to you.......
Hi Cardinal..
as for the Eagle , Remind of the lyrics " On the wings of LOVE" by Jeffery Osbourne. :icon_flower:
and for those serpents..
I understand some take this literally..but not for mine
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the
power of the enemy: and
nothing shall by any means hurt you. correlates somewhat with ThisAct 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid [them] on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
Act 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the [venomous] beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
Act 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
Act 28:6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Its interesting to see Who Christ called Serpents?
Math 23..speaks of those who sat In Moses seat...
Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
scorpions are LIKENED to Serpents\locusts
Eze 2:6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them,
neither be afraid of their words, though
briers and thorns ( sins) [be] with thee, and
thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not
afraid of their words, nor be
dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house. The ongue has within it the POWER of Life and death..Preaching LAW or Prophesing TRUTH
Rev 9:19 For their
power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Pro 30:27 The
locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands;
dont have time to continue..im being beckoned for lunch
Those firey darts( words) we Quench with The shield of FAITH...are words which do US NO harm..all correlates...
Stand TALL in the FAITH, and those words of LAW can do you NO HARM...
Blessings
Taffy
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. --Genesis 3
.....where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. --Revelation 12
Quote17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Well for sure he did not have to war against the woman who was already in compliance with him (the unclean woman of 12 years with the issue of blood or of 18 years bowed to the earth). I would guess that those of her who press through the crowd to touch the hem of His garment would be that seed that Satan wars against. Does the woman of 18 years of being stooped over to the earth represent the rest of the church.......... the ones who are healed at the end of the 1000 years? That would seem to add up correctly with the rest of prophecy so you can see there are two separate woman here.......... just like there was back in the garden
Blessings
Doug
PS. Thanks for the split Davo :thumbsup:
The woman is nourishing herself from the face of the serpent.
It is the remnant of the woman's seed that the dragon is warring against.
Yes, Amen!
Quote from: Taffy on September 02, 2007, 07:30:47 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on September 02, 2007, 04:48:31 PM
:cloud9: What you said, went right over my head, sorry, not exactly sure what you meant. I was speaking of natural things in regards to the snakes they eat. It is the national symbol of Mexico, too, because of this. However, I still see something spiritual in them, though. We are told that them that believe will pick up snakes (lift up the serpent natures of man into the mind of Christ).......Blessings to you.......
Hi Cardinal..
as for the Eagle , Remind of the lyrics " On the wings of LOVE" by Jeffery Osbourne. :icon_flower:
and for those serpents..
I understand some take this literally..but not for mine
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
correlates somewhat with ThisAct 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid [them] on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
Act 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the [venomous] beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
Act 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
Act 28:6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Its interesting to see Who Christ called Serpents?
Math 23..speaks of those who sat In Moses seat...
Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
scorpions are LIKENED to Serpents\locusts
Eze 2:6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns ( sins) [be] with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house.
The ongue has within it the POWER of Life and death..Preaching LAW or Prophesing TRUTH
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Pro 30:27 The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands;
dont have time to continue..im being beckoned for lunch
Those firey darts( words) we Quench with The shield of FAITH...are words which do US NO harm..all correlates...
Stand TALL in the FAITH, and those words of LAW can do you NO HARM...
Blessings
Taffy
Hi T,
Hope this doesn't side track this thread but thought of it when I read your post.
Here is some thots. Kind of random, hope they make sense.
Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is
made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Act 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are
made with hands: 2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house
not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples
made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth
not in temples made with hands; Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the
circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle,
not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:24 For Christ is
not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Matt. 3:9 And THINK NOT to say WITHIN YOURSELVES, WE HAVE ABRAHAM TO OUR FATHER: for I say unto you, that GOD IS ABLE of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."
Works of the hand represent, the works of the beast.
Human potential rather than God potential. Idols of the heart.
Those who have been given ears to hear, aknowledge their human limitations.
Acknowledgment of human limitations, which the law exposed, results in repentance, CHANGING MINDS about independent HUMAN POTENTIAL that has standing in the old covenant.
Those with hardened hearts, can not change their minds about how they view human glory. They do not REPENT so they could not BELIEVE (Mark 1:15).
The message that Christ is preaching "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
Those who had received the "mark of the beast", which marked their forehead (the mind-set in human potential ) and their
right hand ("circumcision made with hands") were thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death. They were not true jews, no circumcision of the heart. They
"REPENTED NOT of the WORKS OF THEIR HANDS". The works of their hands became their idolatry.
Acts 28:
3) And when Paul gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a VIPER out of the heat, and
FASTENED ON HIS HAND.4) And when the barbarians saw the venomous BEAST hang ON HIS HAND, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a
murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and
murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
5) And HE SHOOK OFF THE BEAST INTO THE FIRE, and felt no harm.
Paul overcame the beast, the beast did not mark Paul on the hand because he had "no confidence" "in the flesh".
Phi 3:3 For we are the circumcision (true circumcision of the heart), which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Rather the viper was thrown "into the fire" and no harm came to Paul because the "second death" could not harm the new creature that did not receive the mark of the beast.
We must be born again, die to independent human potential (the mindset of human potential, the mark of the beast) and be born into that of
God possibility.
Idols are the temple made with hand, circumcision made with hands, the old Jerusalem of human possibility.
Num. 21:9
And Moses
MADE A
SERPENT OF BRASS, [Moses made a new idol] and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man [Acts 28:3], when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Physical Circumcision was given as a promise of, and a shadow of good things to come.
But the problem is, man makes the
shadow his idol.
Circumcision marked the coming end of the validity of the flesh as the flesh would be cut off.
In the wilderness application it referred to a change of idols, which depicted a change from an independent human potential to God's possibility in Christ.
In the end of the age the works of the serpent of old are destroyed.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
.
Excellent understanding to me, Laren.
I like the way you said that.
Not at all Laren, Nicely expounded , :thumbsup:
which leads for mine ..If your hand\HANDS offend YOU cut it off..another topic,
all spirtually discerened as you know so well Bro
Blessings
and thanks for adding :icon_flower:
Taffy
:cloud9: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
:2c: The woman is nourished, but not from the face of the serpent; but nourished from, from.... as in, AWAY FROM, the face/nature of the serpent. A time, times, and half a time speak of years; this is one place where they get the 3 1/2 years of "tribulation" from. And the time is short because God cut it short, lest all should perish. This is the silence in heaven for a half hour. The hour of our temptation/tribulation is cut short.
She is being nourished by God. God will bless any who will humble themselves in the wilderness ;). Collectively, she is the "church" who "birthed" those of the kingdom that are destined to be called by his name, the remnant of her seed. She is not the firstfruits, but she will be saved, in her order, for the woman is saved in childbirth ;).....
Singularly, she is the "woman" of all of us, and Satan is making war with the remnant of our seed, which is Christ within, ie. the REMNANT WITHIN THE REMNANT. Just like when the Spirit of God took Jesus out into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan. He hungered afterwards, but it wasn't for spiritual food, because He was "nourished" in the wilderness, too. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word/breath that comes from the mouth of God.
The flood is a flood of words, water speaks of a flow of spirit, in this case the collective voices of the carnal minds around us trying to speak "death" or "idle words" that they will give an account of. Idle there runs into a meaning of "unemployed", as in, the Spirit of God didn't employ them. HIS Spirit speaks LIFE and not condemnation that ministers death to the hearer. The serpent that began in the garden, the evil imaginations of mens minds, by this time, has grown thru generations of wickedness, to now be dragon sized.
The earth, are the people in the outer court realm, the dust realm, that are as the swine, unable to discern thru the Spirit without the baptism of it, so they eat both the husk and the grain. It has been ordained of God that they help the woman, by having their bands made stronger in the receiving of the darkness/water as a flood that the remnant of her seed is being set free from, which is why He cast the devils into the swine.
This is why the day of the Lord is mentioned in one place great glory/light, and in another great darkness. It is a mystery, because it appears to be both at the same time. It is both at the same time, because as we are becoming the day of the Lord, no part darkness, they are having their bands strengthened, which is why it keeps looking darker and darker "out there". Yet still, there are many sick and dying among us, who have not yet discerned the Lord's body.
But the good news for them (outer court) is, they are being marked, Sheba means "marked to return", and when "she' who has lived like a queen sees the wealth of Solomon, and the wisdom God has given this son of God, there will be no more breath (of Adam) in her. Glory to the Most High God, Father, we give You praise! Blessings to all this day.......
PS. I didn't even connect my eagle experience with anything in there until you all brought it up. I just knew it was God and I never asked Him what it meant at the time. I just enjoyed the immensity of His presence in that way. Thanks for pointing that out.....it blessed me!
It does not say "kept from the face"
If I receive nourishment from you then you have fed me.......... why would the scriptures be any different?
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: It's typical KJ wording. It's plain she's not being nourished by the serpent; it says he's persecuting her in the previous sentence. Does it nourish her in one sentence and try to kill her with a flood in the next? She was taken out into the wilderness for protection to be nourished by God. Just like the babe Jesus was taken into the "flesh/wilderness" of Egypt to protect him and nourish him so He could grow up, and Herod couldn't get at Him. And just like we were taken out into the wilderness so we could be nourished and grow up into the full measure of Christ. He's there for the same reason he's always been there; a muscle doesn't become strong without opposition. Neither does an army with no one to fight.
In addition to that, God repeats every precept, because the Word witnesses itself. That's one of the main ways we know it's a precept of Him. Don't recall anywhere in there, that Satan nourished anyone, in any form, so no witness. Blessings to you......
Peace to you
The church is taken into the wilderness and is one more reason we are told to come out of her. Jesus went into the wilderness and came out and is a pattern for us. The wilderness is the playground of the dragon and his tail......... the prophets that teach lies......... the words that are the flood of the serpent that are soaked up by the earth (flesh).
The following scriptures speak of the woman (unclean church, unclean soul of man) and Pharaoh (ruler of the spirit of man)in the wilderness where she will remain !!!.
Eze 29 3: Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself. 4 But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales. 5 And I will leave thee thrown into the wilderness, thee and all the fish of thy rivers: thou shalt fall upon the open fields; thou shalt not be brought together, nor gathered: I have given thee for meat to the beasts of the field and to the fowls of the heaven.
Gal. 4: 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are ? the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar" 25for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children" 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Two women, two Jerusalems but one wilderness and one heaven. The woman (soul) in the wilderness is of the flesh (earth) and is NOT the one from above whom is given to overcomers............ she is the free woman, soul/flesh of Jesus who has gone into heaven.
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: Hi; I know she's not the one given to overcomers. I showed 2 women; one the collective outer court church "woman", still under the law just as much as natural Israel, and one the singular soul of every man, still under the law until the "flesh" (not literal body here only) "dies".
And she, the collective one, will have her time, ie. WE cry how long O Lord, before our brethren will be killed the SAME WAY we were. That's why I said Christ, the remnant within the remnant is what is preserved, in the singular example. And when it's their turn, they too will go thru the processing of God as there is no shortcut between the outer court and the Holy of Holies; all must go thru the trimming of the wicks and the lighting of the candles/souls.
And the dragon is not Pharoah, but Pharoah was a TYPE of it, and a type of the carnal mind of man, which is a spirit, just as Egypt is a type of the flesh. And yes He came out of the wilderness, but the Spirit of God TWICE sent Him in there, He had to go in to come out; once as a babe and once as a man. He went in as a babe for the same reason we do, to take on the image of sinful flesh, to be hidden in God's "quiver", processed until the arrow can hit the mark.
Just as Christ called Peter to come out of the boat (wood speaks of the carnal nature of man) to overcome the flesh/Sodom and Gomorrha/carnal mind and walk in the proceeding word of life that came from the Father's mouth. And then immediately the wind was contrary to them, as in IMMEDIATELY, Satan comes to steal the Word/breath from our hearts. Yet when he obeyed, and Peter got BACK IN the boat, Christ came in the boat, and IMMEDIATELY, they were ON THE OTHER SIDE.
God took Moses out, so He could take him back in again. He had Pharoah oppose him. He continually takes us in and out, ascends and descends, as He is filling all in all, and teaching us to move quickly and find Him in every situation, learning to be content in Him in whatever state we find ourselves.
I think we're seeing the same thing, but expressing it differently in the "language" He gave it to each of us. Blessings to you.....
Put the trumpet to your lips! Like an eagle the enemy comes against the house of the LORD, Because they have transgressed My covenant And rebelled against My law.
"Their horses are swifter than leopards And keener than wolves in the evening. Their horsemen come galloping, Their horsemen come from afar; They fly like an eagle swooping down to devour.
I had always thought an eagle was a good thing, until I discovered that many times in scripture it is an image used to describe the instrument of destruction in the hand of God against His people.
In the natural eagles are vultures, they eat dead flesh. The Babylonian and Roman and Assyian armies consumed the dead body of the Israelies.
In the spiritual, eagles would consume the death within us....that is a good thing.
"Like an eagle that stirs up its nest,
That hovers over its young,
He spread His wings and caught them,
He carried them on His pinions.
12 "The LORD alone guided him,
And there was no foreign god with him.
13 "He made him ride on the high places of the earth,
Hi Sarah
That would fit well with the Jews being sent back into the wilderness the second time to die.
Blessings
Doug
I know there may be some negative connatation to eagles, but there is the scripture that says "They'
that WAIT upon the Lord shall be LIKE Eagles........"
To me,. Jesus "is" the GREAT Eagle, and his Words and His Spirit are the wings of the EAGLE.
An Eagle has been taught to take "advantage" of the "winds" of "storms" .........they MOUNT up ON TOP
of a storm and "ride" it! Thus the storm itself becomes theirs in a sense. The "storm wind" is not "wasted"
to an Eagle, he sees the "good" in it, and takes advantage of the wind, sitting right on top of the storm
and not IN the Storm, but ON TOP of it, by the grace of God.
I heard a sermon once about Eagles, chickens, and turkeys. ha .........it was good, but I can't remember it now. If we are able to be an EAGLE in the sense I spoke, we have been made that way by His Spirit
and there is no boasting.........we could be scratching with the chickens tomorrow! ha
Quote from: RedletterI know there may be some negative connatation to eagles, but there is the scripture that says "They'
that WAIT upon the Lord shall be LIKE Eagles........"
To me,. Jesus "is" the GREAT Eagle, and his Words and His Spirit are the wings of the EAGLE.
Likewise Red :thumbsup:
Pro 23:5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for [riches] certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.
Blessings
Taffy
RLV said
QuoteI know there may be some negative connatation to eagles, but there is the scripture that says "They'
that WAIT upon the Lord shall be LIKE Eagles
.
I Agree Red and they are just like angels that are messengers of both good and evil............ however we call bad angels demons. Eagles that soar up into heaven does not sound to me that they are going back into the wilderness to die.
Since the time of Christ we have been encouraged to come out the church of false worship and disobedience which is exactly why Israel was sent back into the wilderness to die.
IMO we see just that with the woman giving birth (overcomers coming out) of her by choice and then she goes to the wilderness on the wings of evil spirits to be fed by the dragon until she dies. (goes to sleep) This was her special place just like Judas had a special place. As Paul said all will change but not all will sleep.
However this is just my opinion alone and non elders are responsible for their opinions only.......... I guess you could call that my .02 and disclaimer of responsibility for anyone else than myself if I am wrong.
Peace and Blessings
Douglas
.
Just too much to copy but using a concordance type in "wilderness" Doug and just notice all the
different things that happen there. Looks too like there might be more than one kind of wilderness.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on September 03, 2007, 09:52:18 PM
.
Just too much to copy but using a concordance type in "wilderness" Doug and just notice all the
different things that happen there. Looks too like there might be more than one kind of wilderness.
I have and strongs #2048 as it appears in the scripture that is in question is not a good thing by either definition or how it used in all the other places where I saw it used. (a fair amount). I am going to rest in my belief the God is not the author of confusion and it means just as how it is described and is used
1 Corr.10: 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.Blessings
Doug
(Rv 12:9 seems to equate the dragon and the serpent.)
Notice the following three points are adversarial to the woman: In v.13 it 1.) persecutes the woman. It then attempts 2.)to cause the woman to be carried away by the current of a river out of its mouth in v.15 and then goes away to do 3.) battle with the rest of her seed in v.17.
Considering the woman to be carried into the wilderness, at least in part, for protection from the serpent it leaves the serpent passive between points 2.) and 3.) above, yet remaining consistent with its ill intent. The woman is being nourished, not "'out' from the face of the serpent," but "in spite of", or, "'away' from the face of the serpent."
---JMR
Quote from: reFORMer on September 06, 2007, 05:52:01 AM
(Rv 12:9 seems to equate the dragon and the serpent.)
Notice the following three points are adversarial to the woman: In v.13 it 1.) persecutes the woman. It then attempts 2.)to cause the woman to be carried away by the current of a river out of its mouth in v.15 and then goes away to do 3.) battle with the rest of her seed in v.17.
Considering the woman to be carried into the wilderness, at least in part, for protection from the serpent it leaves the serpent passive between points 2.) and 3.) above, yet remaining consistent with its ill intent. The woman is being nourished, not "'out' from the face of the serpent," but "in spite of", or, "'away' from the face of the serpent."
---JMR
Have you ever watched winged predators feed their young?
They do it mouth to mouth, face to face and dragons are winged predators . Go take a look at the original languages and how this words used in every other place it is used.......
The teaching of the woman being protected from the serpent in this verse is old school ET rapture stuff........ this woman is being fed just like Eve was when she was fed a bunch of lies by the serpent who too is a woman........ the passage even talks of the flood (words) being swallowed up by earth (flesh).
Christians have been deceived far to long on some of these verses. If one wants to believe that the woman in this scripture is being protected by God and fed by God in this passage they do not have a single witnesses in scripture to support their conclusion. This word is used 7 times in scripture and each time it has the giver (whether person, location or principality) and receiver being nourished and named together in the verse. (or a question as to who in Matt.25: 37)......... This verse is no different than the other six and God is not the author of confusion........ Satan is !
It is time to let go of the traditions of man's church of darkness that makes the Word of God to be of no effect and step out into the light of the truth! This woman is the nominal church stuck in the wilderness that fed you all those lies you have been hearing since being a child.
Go look at the tail of the dragon and see who he is as well as who the stars that are swept from heaven represent. It is the same thing all over again........ Satan deceiving Christians by using the church (woman, Eve, soul) to do so.
Blessings
Doug
Hey Doug,
Sounds like the "wilderness" perhaps does to the "men of war" what it does NOT do to the Spirit!
Maybe that's it! All the men of war kept the children of Isreal in the "wilderness" TIL .......all the
"men of war" were gone, and Joshua and Caleb are the Word and Spirit?
That was noushised later on...........in spite of .........?
Just some thoughts.
I guess "this is my party and I'll cry if I want to, .........you would cry too, if it happened to YOU: maybe
we sing that song while we are in the wilderness of the old testament stuff, and perhaps we sing
the song that no man could sing but the you know who later ....?
I always wondered how a "woman" who gave "birth" to the very MANchild himself, could be one place
and the MANchild that she brought forth could be singing over her from up ABOVE! ????
Gotta get them back together. ha
You are right! It's all between your ears. Who said that? I forgot! Maybe it wasn't you , but I agree.
(I'm really posting at 12:45 in the wee hours after midnight.)
The eagle's head ("to his own Lord he stands") is 3/4 eyes. I think I remember it is from 2 miles away they can see a "gnawer" (fr.lit.Hbr. for "mouse".) For their ability to remain at great heights and see great distances they represent the spiritual life and visionary prophetic. Along with the lion among the faces of the cherubim they are unclean for eating; but, so also is the man. The only "clean" beast here is the calf or ox, which also is the only one who transforms, and that into an angel.
I know I'm justified by what God did in Christ; but it remains legitimate to be aware if someone does or does not do as I can say I really do: seek and serve God the best I know how. But the Bible is not God. My faith is overwhelmingly in a living and present God. While I can say I believe in the Bible, it's influence is very much less than my experience with God. The Holy Spirit has disciplined me to recognize much of what I used to think was belief in the Scripture was actually belief in my limited understanding of Scripture. Big difference!
I construct an understanding of Scripture the best I can, knowing what it is in its entirety is inconceivably beyond my capacity, at least until after the metamorphosis of my physical body to an incorruptible state. I seek to be uncompromising in my alignment with the truths expressed in Scripture while in tension with maintaining my humility before its vastness, making adjustments to increasing light as rapidly as possible. An "interpretation" of certain Scripture portions, particularly those heavily symbolic, even if those interpretations are exhumed from the past, do not make me an unhealthy ally of "tradition" nor do I unwaveringly hold to the interpretation being examined.
About 40 years ago one of the first couple of particulars to come into question about what I'd been raised in as a child was the "Rapture" doctrine, which is a label for many unscriptural ideas masquerading as Christian prophecy for events near at hand. There's still a multitude debunking Darby/Scofieldism compared to the very little about a true eschatology. Since 1973 I've known endless torture was not taught in the Scripture. July 18, 1981 at 3 a.m. is a point in time I memorialized because, following intensive study of the Greek term "eon," I believed 1 Tim 4:9-11: "God...is the savior of all men, specially of those that believe." I walked with God for some time before I was more enlightened concerning these and other important facts. The gate of entrance is the person of Jesus, not an every jot and title accurate knowledge of Scripture. His manifest presence is the evidence of how much I've entered. Among other things in those early days God lifted the water of a lake up before my face and underneath was dry ground. There He said to me, "With God, all things are possible."
D. Barton Payne gave us a sizable volume called Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy. Using his calculations, after "Christ," the prophetic topic with the second largest number of verses, three times as many as any other, is "Babylon." Hidden within the Bible, every little boy and girl carries to Sunday School a book called, "Mother of Whores." Yet the best selling books on the Church in the last couple of decades that I've examined remind us of the ostrich in the wilderness. Perhaps their lack of judgment explains their popularity. They make no mention of a false vine, false brethren, or the harlot: Babylon. She is not the Church. The Church does not deceive us. It is Babylon that "lies in wait at every corner" (Pr 7:12) to seduce. The Ecclesia is God's girlfriend, the wife Christ died to obtain. Too many use the term "Church" to refer to the Institutional Church which is more properly Babylon. God's people are "called out" of Babylon, not out of the Church.
In Rv 12 is one of the 2 "great" signs, seen in the heaven, a woman travailing and tormented to be bringing forth her child. I personally like this portion a great deal. I understand the description to be a parallel of many other threefold things in the word (like Jesus' 30, 60 and 100 fold [Mt13:8; Mk 4:8 and again in v.20]) which I will not here enumerate. Many of you are familiar with this. The moon corresponds to the outer court of the temple for instance. It is a people in the heaven but it's still dirt. It is solitary as Adam nature is an individual soul. Their way is still determined in relation to the earth. Their light is in the night. Their glory is still reflected: like the law reflects God, they reflect the sun-clothed woman who is a corporate entity. They are under the authority of the Woman, "at her feet." The woman's authority is worn on her brow. Though a wreath of victory, it is imparted, referential, made of stars that are signs. She knows on her ground appeared the twelve fathers of the tribes and apostles of the lamb. The authority of the male she births is intrinsic to him, his nature, his destiny. He, "...is about to be shepherding all the nations in an iron club."
The immature hear of greater authority, higher dimensions, superior ranks and claim it theirs by a sort of faith in the thought of of it. The reality is if any are to get there ahead of the rest of the Church it is only to bring the rest in. The wilderness is a place of testing for approval to qualify and is a precursor to entering in. Before the division into Israel and Judah the 3 kings (mind to rule) were Saul who "ruled in Israel 40 yrs," often used to represent the fleshy believer; "a just man," as those born of spirit, anointed from man made "vials," the anointed flesh. David (meaning: "the beloved") is Christ in us. His is a threefold anointing from a horn, representing power in maturity from the death of a servant beast. He subdued the flesh, the enemies against the nation of God. The outcome of the house of David is Solomon who brings in the glory, the flesh glorified, the 100 fold "Manchild" realm peculiarly marked by wisdom. The parallel to draw attention to is David fleeing from the face of Saul who seeks to kill him. (A personal word: the name I feel appropriate for "my" church is "The Cave of Adullam." I hope I can mature and not be stuck here.) Now listen to Zechariah 12:7-8: (These categories and their stories echo features of Rv 12,) "The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. " Here we find a kind of scale describing degrees of entrance into the glory of the presence of God when He "seizes" (as His own possession,) "harpazo" s (Greek) His chosen, when they cross over into incorruptible life to nevermore die.
It seems very inconsistent to read, "The woman who brought forth the male" (12:13) as Babylon; that it's Babylon's, "...seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus." (12:17) In v.6, "they" are "...nourishing her 1260 days." In v.14, passively, "She is nourished." And how is the next phrase (v.14) to be considered, "From the face of the serpent?"
---JMRohde
QuoteIt seems very inconsistent to read, "The woman who brought forth the male" (12:13) as Babylon; that it's Babylon's, "...seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus." (12:17) In v.6, "they" are "...nourishing her 1260 days." In v.14, passively, "She is nourished." And how is the next phrase (v.14) to be considered, "From the face of the serpent?"
Revelations is not the first time good and evil are pictured coming to the church or to man. As it says in the OT He puts before us the way of life and the way of death. There are more examples of it in the NT but this is the one that comes to my mind first.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus ChristThe true and the false apostle both speak to and from the same place. We are told to get out of her but then in turn we will be the ones used by God to bring her to Him as prophesied in Luke 6: 1,
Blessings
Doug
Quote from: reFORMer on September 07, 2007, 07:45:23 AMIn Rv 12 is one of the 2 "great" signs, seen in the heaven, a woman travailing and tormented to be bringing forth her child. I personally like this portion a great deal. I understand the description to be a parallel of many other threefold things in the word (like Jesus' 30, 60 and 100 fold [Mt13:8; Mk 4:8 and again in v.20]) which I will not here enumerate. Many of you are familiar with this. The moon corresponds to the outer court of the temple for instance. It is a people in the heaven but it's still dirt. It is solitary as Adam nature is an individual soul. Their way is still determined in relation to the earth. Their light is in the night. Their glory is still reflected: like the law reflects God, they reflect the sun-clothed woman who is a corporate entity. They are under the authority of the Woman, "at her feet." The woman's authority is worn on her brow. Though a wreath of victory, it is imparted, referential, made of stars that are signs. She knows on her ground appeared the twelve fathers of the tribes and apostles of the lamb. The authority of the male she births is intrinsic to him, his nature, his destiny. He, "...is about to be shepherding all the nations in an iron club."
OK APOC I see who you are NOW!~ Checked your profile.
Well, I got a "little" from all that you were speaking after midnight. I am UP after midnight too!
I wrote a post and then it slipped into cyberspace, but I will see if I can reword it.
My questioning mind was on this "reflecting" part................we all know that the "woman" was clothed with the SUN, she had the MOON under her feet
when she gave birth to the MANchild.
I see the SUN like the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. And the MOON the lesser light, or the law of sin and death.........
If you can understand my questions, tell me, didn't this same "woman" KEEP the Sun clothes?
What in heck was she doing in the wilderness having to be nourished from the "face of the serpent" anyway........if she had the moon under her feet?
What happened here?
I never knew this question was even IN ME. ha
.....................................
Hi Doug, I see you've added a response while I was rephrasing and retyping my questions.
This is an interesting study...............hope my questions do make a little sense.
Hi Red
Sorry I took so long to respond
You have made an excellent point about why the woman is in the wilderness when she is suppose to be in heaven. After all both 1st Peter(1:4) and Revelation (chap 21:2,3) have the "acceptable" woman in heaven before coming to earth. I guess it is going to take awhile for all of us to shake the teachings of man from our minds but as Paul says we may see darkly now but that too will change.
We are required to worship in truth but I have a feeling that to much 'strong drink and meat" (doctrines) are often used on both sides to the detriment of the Body of Christ. However I am not just speaking of those with knowledge shunning others but the verbal onslaught and accusations of those without knowledge directed towards those who have it.
It is another "partition" that needs to be torn down by the truth of Christ. Only from the rubble that is left can we build a "true wall" just as they did in Nehemiah. That prophecy depicts today's Christian and church....... first the stones come from outside of Israel just as the unsaved come in from the outside world to Christ but then the glory leaves the them just as it did the temple (church). However up from the rubble of broken pride and worldly rudiments a House of God will be constructed where the Law that is spiritually understood and not just naturally will be taught. Then the glory of the latter will be greater than the former and they will be the ones to offer up acceptable praises to heaven so that Jesus will finally have a place to rest His Head.
Peace and Blessings
Douglas