The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[WhiteWings]

And the devil is a part of God creation.

Yes but was he always as he is now? If he is to be reconciled to me indicates that he is different then he once was.

I think everything (besides Father, Son, HS) can (and will) change.
As said I think God has a reason for everything. I (we?) may not understand it of find it totally illogical. But once we will understand the real reasons.

Ya a lot of people see it from your view brother, but that to me implies that the skinheads cannot make a choice for themselves whether to kill the Jew or not.

Not anymore I think. If a baby is taken from his/her natural parents and placed in a rich left wing family or a poor skinhead home that almost resembles hell; then yes I think the character will develop otherwise. Just like some men prefer skinny girls and others prefer more flesh on the bones. Why don't ask me. But it seems reality....?

Note on responsibility: I used a wrong word here WW I should have used cause and said having foreknowledge of an event and being the cause of the event are two different animals.

Don't worry about that Scott. I always try to read the meaning of a post. I'm not a lawyer that builds a whole case on a missing comma  :laughing7:

The reason I am making this distinction is because God does take responsibility for the actions of men,

In my understanding responsibility means that some blame rests on the shoulders of God.
If you would say that taking responsibility is equal to forgiving I could agree with that sentence.

Hope that helps clear my thoughts up a little.

Your thoughts where clear from the start. I still don't agree with them. But I'm still learning and perhaps in six months I switched side. And if we don't get to an agreement in this life I challenge you for a 100 year debate in the next life. A drinking contest would be fine too. We got enough time then  :laughing7:

[rosered]

  Paul Hazelwood

Jb 1:12 Hence Yahweh said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your hand, but you must not put forth your hand upon himself. Then Satan went forth from Yahweh's presence.


Jb 1:19 when behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness, and it assaulted against the four corners of the house. It fell upon the lads, and they died, yet I escaped, but I myself alone, to tell it to you.




I want to be clear on peoples thoughts on Satan without trying to interject my own beliefs in argument to that. 

What has not been made clear from those who dwell mainly on the mind aspect of Satan,  is how that relates to the story of Job.   Jobs life was affected outside of his own mind concerning other people as a result of the permission God gave Satan over Jobs life.

Clearly Job did not sin during this trial , nor did he fall prey to unbelief, nor did he curse God.   These attributes seem to be what some are saying would manifest Satan, or the adversary,  yet, this story shows the attempt to make Job fail in his faith by Satan, without the aid of those things from Job.

How does this story tie in with satan in the view of the mind only.

,

Hi  Paul   the book of Job is  way full of wonders of God , I have to say that  its   more  of a parable to me ,like  the rich man and lazarus is a parable
  Job  was one of the main studies I have done  off and on for  several years now   and cannot begin to   count the blessings in them chapters 
   he spoke without knowledge 
  he was rich and had influence , power  , and all was because of what God had given him , when it was all taken away  from him ,suffered GREAT LOSS  all  but his life
  he humbled by this  spoke wisely of God ,
  one of the main influences  outside him  was miserable comforters /friends 
untill he prayed for them he was not restored whole again

  just a  small  bit I considered  on them  chapters 
ps  when giving up all his children for dead  it did not seem to affect him the way  in real life this would devastate any of us , to loose just one child 
  how could God restore  3 daughters and 7 sons without missing them 
other children  and their personalities ?  can another child take the place of the one  you lost?  these are the things I considered when reading the book of Job  and  seen it as a parable   more so  than a literal interpetation of Job
  Paul speaks of suffering loss  ,yet the man shall be saved as by fire 
was Jobs trials a   fire to see what remains ?


God bless you all

[Paul Hazelwood]

Yes but was he always as he is now? If he is to be reconciled to me indicates that he is different then he once was.

Not necessarily, I have seen that scripture represents reconciliation as such


"to win over to friendliness; cause to become amicable: to reconcile hostile persons."

How can this happen with adversary?

First lets see the nature of an adversary.   We only look at it in the light of opposition to God, but thats only how it is being used now.

1. a person, group, or force that opposes or attacks; opponent; enemy; foe. What if adversary then becomes a shield, won over to friendliness?

One verse in the following passage is often used to say that satan can be a light among us for the purposes of deceit, and it was not until I started seeing verses in the light of Gods power to reconcile ALL of his creation in HOPE  (Romans 8)



2C 11:12 Now what I am doing and will be doing is that I should |strike off the incentive from *those wanting an incentive, that in what they are boasting~ they may be |found according as we also.

2C 11:13 For *such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured~ into apostles of Christ.

2C 11:14 And not marvel, for *Satan samehimself is being transfigured~ into a messenger of light.

2C 11:15 It is not great thing, then, if his *servants also are being transfigured~ as dispensers of righteousness--whose *consummation shall be according to their *acts.

2C 11:16 Again I am saying, no anyone should |presume me to be imprudent. Otherwise surely, +even if it should be as imprudent, receive~ me, that I'  also should |boast~ anysome little!

[Molly]

You were like a virgin bride I had chosen only for Christ. 3But now I fear that you will be tricked, just as Eve was tricked by that lying snake. I am afraid that you might stop thinking about Christ in an honest and sincere way. 4We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message. 5I think I am as good as any of those super apostles. 6I may not speak as well as they do, but I know as much. And this has already been made perfectly clear to you.

    7Was it wrong for me to lower myself and honor you by preaching God's message free of charge? 8I robbed other churches by taking money from them to serve you. 9Even when I was in need, I still didn't bother you. In fact, some of the Lord's followers from Macedonia brought me what I needed. I have not been a burden to you in the past, and I will never be a burden. 10As surely as I speak the truth about Christ, no one in Achaia can stop me from bragging about this. 11And it isn't because I don't love you. God himself knows how much I do love you.

    12 I plan to go on doing just what I have always done. Then those people won't be able to brag about doing the same things we are doing. 13Anyway, they are no more than false apostles and dishonest workers. They only pretend to be apostles of Christ. 14And it is no wonder. Even Satan tries to make himself look like an angel of light. 15So why does it seem strange for Satan's servants to pretend to do what is right? Someday they will get exactly what they deserve.



2Co 11:13  For1063 such5108 are false apostles,5570 deceitful1386 workers,2040 transforming themselves3345 into1519 the apostles652 of Christ.5547
2Co 11:14  And2532 no3756 marvel;2298 for1063 Satan4567 himself846 is transformed3345 into1519 an angel32 of light.5457



"transforming themselves"
"is transformed"


G3345
μετασχηματίζω
metaschēmatizō
met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo
From G3326 and a derivative of G4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively to apply (by accommodation): - transfer, transform (self).



Be careful, Paul.  We cannot transform ourselves, except by disguise!

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi Rosered

I understand the nature of the bible being a parable and always try to see that in every story.  Seeing the reality of that opens so much more up spiritually.

I certainly understand the connection of loss there, I understand the picture of love for God and those who wish to deter us from that path.

Yes, you are right, the story of Job contains many things, and undoubtedly we will learn more.

But your reply, and no offense,  does not not seem to answer what I am after.  If you were not trying to answer my inquiry directly, no worries.

I must say, that I do not agree that Satan is only a figurative of the mind.  But my intention is not to debate you or anyone on that at this time.

I simply want to see the reasoning gathered to come to that conclusion.  So, concerning your reply consider these things.

1. God pointed out Job to Satan first.
2. Satan then challenged God concerning why Job was so faithful.
3. God then set the rules of the challenge to prove to Satan that Job would not fail.
4. God then gave permission to affect Job within those rules. (God keeps his promise that we will not get more than we can bear)

Where does this scenario, not taking place within Jobs mind, fit in the belief that Satan is only in our mind?   For if Satan is only in our mind, then he was only in Jobs mind as well.

[pneuma]

Your thoughts where clear from the start. I still don't agree with them. But I'm still learning and perhaps in six months I switched side. And if we don't get to an agreement in this life I challenge you for a 100 year debate in the next life. A drinking contest would be fine too. We got enough time then

:thumbsup: I'll drink to that :bigGrin:

[pneuma]

What Rose brought out on the man in the tomb was very good and I can agree with it, but that is one layer, but I would ask why he cut himself, was it because of the law which is ordained unto life, or because satan used the law to deceive and bring condemnation?

Thus you have the milk and the meat working together for a clearer imo understanding of what transpires in and around men.

  Hi Pneuma,
   Yes ! what influence  does satan / adversary have  on mortal man ?
and what would cause the  wild man to  cut himself on stones
 to me it was  ouside influence , namely  the  hell fire church i was attending at the time  , they desired to glory in the flesh  [lusts there of ]  and abusing a power /authority  over the vunerable  [unlearned and innocent ] a type of bondage

 I think of Ishmael  being that wild man  whos hand is against his bretheren ALL BY VIOLENCE   the kingdom come by violence till Jesus /Spirit of Gods love and mercy  towards us   appeared     , comparing the two  Gal 4

 I will use Judas  as an example also  when satan entered his heart  
 that influence  was to  steal and do injustice by stealing  , Judas  a thief   desired money more than doing what was right [betrayal ],  having to make a choice  greedy gain  was the reward  of iniquity , it was not his to have /take  and  Judas  was tormented by his choice

 there is  another  word i  want to use  it is covet  
Paul touches alot on coveting  , even within himself  and that lust or desire to have [power, riches ,authority, influence,  etc] usually BY VIOLENCE a prideful state of being   I did a huge study on coveting  and  what was in the scriptures  
and  there was a huge blessing in it


Book of  James also  speaks  of the lusts being the  weakness in man that

tempts  the flesh
putting the soul  in jeopardy and misery   thats what I saw in Judas  
and the man in the  tombs [dead inside] till Jesus comes to restore
 the  body , soul and spirit  of us , it is a 3 part work  
and the scripptures speaks of a  1/3  and  3 parts many times  , to many times for me to ignore  them
God bless you bro .. rose

Rose I read that twice and I'm still not sure if you were agreeing with me or disagreeing or agreeing but only in part.

You'd think because we both jump all over the place we would understand each other better. like two peas in a pod :happygrin:

[pneuma]

Quote from: pneuma on Today at 10:08:57 AM
Yes but was he always as he is now? If he is to be reconciled to me indicates that he is different then he once was.

Not necessarily, I have seen that scripture represents reconciliation as such


"to win over to friendliness; cause to become amicable: to reconcile hostile persons."

But would that not mean then that to be reconciled means something different then restoration?

[Paul Hazelwood]

Be careful, Paul.  We cannot transform ourselves, except by disguise!

Molly, thank you for the contrast,  I counted on that.   :happy3:

I can only go by what I see,  I look at the words in the greek and hebrew and realize that many translations add words that are based on the context the translators believe.

I see the multiple message of scripture.  The greek is an amazing language for that.   See, we know there are deceivers, no doubt,  we also know that transformation is possible.

If a human can disguise its nature how much more power to transform does God have to do that.  There is an underlying context and it refers to Satan as well.



2C 11:15 It is not great thing, then, if his *servants also are being transfigured~ as dispensers of righteousness--whose *consummation shall be according to their *acts.


It's another factor in reconciliation.   They can be transformed to true light.

[Molly]

[Satan himself] "is transformed"

G3345
μετασχηματίζω
metaschēmatizō
met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo
From G3326 and a derivative of G4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively to apply (by accommodation): - transfer, transform (self).


The word is metaschematizo.  We can almost translate that without knowing the Greek.

It is formed from two Greek words,  meta and schema



G3326
μετά
meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.


G4976
σχῆμα
schēma
skhay'-mah
From the alternate of G2192; a figure (as a mode or circumstance), that is, (by implication) external condition: - fashion.


Satan is transforming himself with a disguise.

Happy Halloween!

[Paul Hazelwood]

Quote from: pneuma on Today at 10:08:57 AM
Yes but was he always as he is now? If he is to be reconciled to me indicates that he is different then he once was.

Not necessarily, I have seen that scripture represents reconciliation as such


"to win over to friendliness; cause to become amicable: to reconcile hostile persons."

But would that not mean then that to be reconciled means something different then restoration?

Yes,  and the biblical context for God being ALL in ALL is the word translated to reconcile.


Restore and restoration in the bible appears to have a different usage than what is pertaining to all creation.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Satan is transforming himself with a disguise.

Happy Halloween!

Wasn't completely disputing that if you read closely. 

[Molly]

Satan is transforming himself with a disguise.

Happy Halloween!

Wasn't completely disputing that if you read closely. 

I guess I didn't understand what you were saying, then.  I have no idea what Bible you are reading but the translation is like jibberish to me.

--whose *consummation shall be according to their *acts.

...whose3739 end5056 shall be2071 according2596 to their846 works.2041



"end"
G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Satan is transforming himself with a disguise.

Happy Halloween!

Wasn't completely disputing that if you read closely. 

I guess I didn't understand what you were saying, then.  I have no idea what Bible you are reading but the translation is like jibberish to me.

Well, I do not know what to do about that,  I read mostly from the hebrew and greek renderings.  Not that I am educated in the language, but it is the structure of the literal hebrew and greek before translators formulate it into structured english sentences.

What I am saying is,  I posted "a"  not "the only"  side of that passage that I see.  I did that intentionally, so that someone would post the typical interpretation, that is correct, but it is not the only message that is there.

Meaning, whatever deceivers are able to do of themselves,  God can do permanantly.

It is an underlying indication that Satan transforms into an angel of light because that light is what truth is and Satan knows what it is or he could not know to transform into that.   It is also an indication that is the fate, the finished work of Christ, because Satan,  no matter what anyone wishes to believe, is a creation of God.

God must be all in all, that is set in stone,  so,  what will Satan become but light in the end?

[Molly]

Meaning, whatever deceivers are able to do of themselves,  God can do permanantly.

It is an underlying indication that Satan transforms into an angel of light because that light is what truth is and Satan knows what it is or he could not know to transform into that.   It is also an indication that is the fate, the finished work of Christ, because Satan,  no matter what anyone wishes to believe, is a creation of God.

God must be all in all, that is set in stone,  so,  what will Satan become but light in the end?

I'm not sure what that means.  It sounds like when your mother says, Don't make faces, your face might get stuck like that.

Yes, Satan is the ultimate trickster.  He knows the Bible better than most Christians.  He comes at Jesus with the Bible twisted ever so slightly--the word of God in disguise--and Jesus comes right back at him with the word--spoken in context as it is meant to be spoken.

It sounds like you are saying that someday while Satan is pretending to be an angel of light, God will freeze him in place.  lol

That would be cool rofl.

[Craig]

God must be all in all, that is set in stone,  so,  what will Satan become but light in the end?

Or non-existent. After all, Satan, is a title meaning "Adversary". It is that space between to points which are divided. It is the cut on the body which is open. When the body is healed, the wound is no more. When the two points are reconciled, the space is no more. When all things are brought into Harmony, the Adversary is no more. When the knowledge of the Truth is finally revealed, the lie has no power and is no more.

[Molly]

When the knowledge of the Truth is finally revealed, the lie has no power and is no more.

This I can agree with.

[Craig]

Craig you know very well you are taking that out of context, low blow bro.

No pneuma it isn't a low blow, those are you own words. You don't care what people say about it, zip, zero. Can't low blow something you admit freely to everyone in this forum. As well as your continual attribution of your thoughts of what others think as what they think, also show me that you are not listening to what is being presented. You will think what you want to think, you don't much take into consideration other people's positions and only take up those positions when arguing against them rather than taking time to understand them....

Example of your errors...

Craig if spirits are man made or to use your words created by a part of man, and God is a spirit you are saying God is a creation of man. That is simple logic bro, and for someone who I know is very logical not to see this logic is illogical.

No, that is a fallacy called error in composition. There is no logic to what you are saying since it is a fallacy. There is God, and then there are gods. We are not God, we are gods. There is Spirit, and then there is spirit. Spirit which is Life and then there is spirit which is life. If you cannot distinguish between Spirit and spirit, then you have a long way to go in your walk.

Like God, we too can create and destroy. I said the battle ground is in the mind and spirits can be created by mankind as well as God ontologically for a purpose though we do not know it at the time since God created us that way. Your logic is flawed because you again assume a position that doesn't exist and has never been stated. It sees you cannot comprehend what a spirit is, as you need to, like most people, associate it as being anthropomorphic beings, rather than what they actually are which are spirits.

God created the first Serpent, where did it come from but from within woman.

Let me show once again, what evil spirits are and where they come from.

Mark 7:20-23
And Jesus was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart (mind) of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

[Paul Hazelwood]

God must be all in all, that is set in stone,  so,  what will Satan become but light in the end?

Or non-existent. After all, Satan, is a title meaning "Adversary". It is that space between to points which are divided. It is the cut on the body which is open. When the body is healed, the wound is no more. When the two points are reconciled, the space is no more. When all things are brought into Harmony, the Adversary is no more. When the knowledge of the Truth is finally revealed, the lie has no power and is no more.

Not disputing that possibility,  but the depiction of Satan in Job raises a larger question here than no one is answering concerning what Satan is and whether he will just disappear or a created being that will also be transformed.


People give their explanations, but ignore the picture in Job where he is conversing with God as a being.  

[Molly]

No pneuma it isn't a low blow, those are you own words. You don't care what people say about it, zip, zero. Can't low blow something you admit freely to everyone in this forum.

Craig if spirits are man made or to use your words created by a part of man, and God is a spirit you are saying God is a creation of man. That is simple logic bro, and for someone who I know is very logical not to see this logic is illogical.

No, that is a fallacy called error in composition. There is no logic to what you are saying since it is a fallacy. There is God, and then there are gods. We are not God, we are gods. Like God, we too can create and destroy. I said the battle ground is in the mind and spirits can be created by mankind as well as God ontologically for a purpose though we do not know it at the time since God created us that way. Your logic is flawed because you again assume a position that doesn't exist and has never been stated.

Not quite.  We are given our choice of who we will serve--Life or Death.


Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

[Craig]

Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Those gods were either a) Figments of man's imagination or b) men who assumed the place of power (as most ancient religions did).

We can choose to follow spirits (the thoughts, strongholds, imaginations, empty arguments, etc.) the things that are Death or follow the Spirit (Truth, Knowledge, Wisdom, Love) the Thing that is Life.

[rosered]

 

 LOL ok Pnuema and Paul ,
thanks I thought i was being clear hee hee  

so I will just back to reading again

 Paul  you wrote this for me ..

But your reply, and no offense,  does not not seem to answer what I am after.  If you were not trying to answer my inquiry directly, no worries.

I must say, that I do not agree that Satan is only a figurative of the mind.  But my intention is not to debate you or anyone on that at this time.

I simply want to see the reasoning gathered to come to that conclusion.  So, concerning your reply consider these things.

1. God pointed out Job to Satan first.
2. Satan then challenged God concerning why Job was so faithful.
3. God then set the rules of the challenge to prove to Satan that Job would not fail.
4. God then gave permission to affect Job within those rules. (God keeps his promise that we will not get more than we can bear)

Where does this scenario, not taking place within Jobs mind, fit in the belief that Satan is only in our mind?   For if Satan is only in our mind, then he was only in Jobs mind as well.

 Hi Paul  no offense taken  bro    and  I will be honest here  totally ok

 to me only , and this is what I think  , thought about for a long time now  , This   thread has been an eye opener to me

 satan is a spirit [ a power] and  it  is   held /bound  in worldly wisdom ! thats it ..  I cannot explain it any better than that  :mblush:..
 the worldly wisdom/adverse to Gods Wisdom    has cause and affect and  mostly ACTS  on  every aspect of our being  moral law  ,    the Laws of Christ   and every thing  we  Believe IN   :mshock: or  no not believe in

Knowing and  not knowing what is right/wrong .,  it effects  our minds and much  much more than that , to say its the mind only is , narrowmindedness to me lol .. but it does also effect the mind , heart  soul etc  and  puts fear into us , we  fear what we dont know or understand ,
example , when I was little  i  was afraid of the dark  literally [blindness , could not see , just feel and fear what was in the dark  the boogy man   , now I realize  I was afraid  of my ignorance  of the dark , always  such horrible  anxiety , but , now  I cannot sleep with a light on lol .. and My Comfort is in trusting the Lord and I dont fear everything in the world now , my fear is in the Lord , turned around so to speak   :thumbsup:


my life is the Lords  now and  I am not trying to preserve/keep  it for myself and its desires  , but  His purpose for all  is of value to me now

 

 

[Paul Hazelwood]

It sounds like you are saying that someday while Satan is pretending to be an angel of light, God will freeze him in place.  lol

That would be cool rofl.

LOL,  why not?    :laughing7:

[Craig]

Not disputing that possibility,  but the depiction of Satan in Job raises a larger question here than no one is answering concerning what Satan is and whether he will just disappear or a created being that will also be transformed. People give their explanations, but ignore the picture in Job where he is conversing with God as a being.  

God is conversing with Satan which is a spirit. Technically a being, but not a being like mankind or God himself. Job is a play which in which Job experiences some hardship.  Satan is given anthropomorphic traits, so that we are able to understand the conflict which is taking place in Job's life and how Job does not give into the lies (empty arguments, justifications, speculations) his mind creates and his friends share for the reason it is happening and turn from God. All these things are happening from within Job, and since Job is a play, we see what is happening spiritually is God is testing Job, just as you pointed out, it was God who started this battle within Job and spoke to the spiritual adversary in Job's life, knowing Job had his mind on the things of God, the mind of God.

Deuteronomy 13:3-4
The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

Exodus 20:20
Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."

Deuteronomy 8:2
"You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.

Deuteronomy 8:16
In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end.

2 Chronicles 32:31
Even in the matter of (A)the envoys of the rulers of Babylon, who sent to him to inquire of the wonder that had happened in the land, God left him alone only to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

So here we see that Satan arrives in our lives, when we are tested. That is his purpose.

How did the Serpent get into the Garden? God placed him there. What was his purpose? To test Adam and woman. Where did it all begin? With the lie that formulated in woman's mind that we were not to touch it, lest we die. With the lie in her head, the serpent was arrived to test her and Adam. The serpent did not come until evil had already been conceived in the heart and mind. As Isaiah states, the serpent comes when we begin to think evil thoughts and we have a choice, follow through with the evil that has been developing or submit to God and cast it away.

[Zeek]

Craig you know very well you are taking that out of context, low blow bro.

Mark 7:20-23
And Jesus was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart (mind) of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: