A little more on Gods Fire.

[Mickiel]

/quote]

It indicates that they believe there is one God, or that God exist, but they do not believe what God believes. Vs 19; " You believe God is One, you do well, the demons also believe and shudder", or they believe in one God, but this in no manner indicates that they believe in Gods ways and means. They fear God for his strength, but their fear does not equate into dedication to his reforms. Or belief in his righteousness. They do not believe in him, or they do not submit to him.

They acknowledge him, but do not agree with him.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

And let me add to this. God  didNOT create demons to believe in him, they were created to oppose, not believe. Belief in one sense, yes, but moreso deregulation, a decomposing, or the end.

If you see yourself ending, or being wiped  out, what then does your belief really mean?

Peace

[Paul Hazelwood]

And let me add to this. God  didNOT create demons to believe in him, they were created to oppose, not believe. Belief in one sense, yes, but moreso deregulation, a decomposing, or the end.

If you see yourself ending, or being wiped  out, what then does your belief really mean?

Peace

I'm not disagreeing on the purpose that God created the demons for.  But I also see a depiction in scripture that says they may know more about their purpose then we might think.   I also see a respect that Jesus has for them that isn't readily taught.


In Matthew we have the man being demonized and the demons state this.

Mt 8:29 And lo! they cry, saying,  "What is it to us and to Thee, Son of God! Didst Thou come here to torment us before the season?"

They know whats going to happen, and it isn't destruction.  The Greek literal says to ordealize and of course the defintion of that greek word includes torture and the CLV uses the word torment.  Concerning the context of Gods correction torment is a good word.  I do not believe it will be torture as we might think should be happening to a demon.

It is not taught, so it is rarely noticed that Jesus had mercy on the demons.  Now why have mercy on something your going to eventually torture or destroy?

What I see here is fascinating.

Mt 8:31 Now the demons entreated Him, saying,  "If You are casting us out, dispatch us into the herd of hogs."



Why is this fascinating?   Because Jesus honors the demons request.   It's just amazing to see that Jesus understands the purpose of these creatures and the Father created them too.

[Nathan]

An interesting observation you make.

[Mickiel]

/quote]


I'm not disagreeing on the purpose that God created the demons for.  But I also see a depiction in scripture that says they may know more about their purpose then we might think.   I also see a respect that Jesus has for them that isn't readily taught.


In Matthew we have the man being demonized and the demons state this.

Mt 8:29 And lo! they cry, saying,  "What is it to us and to Thee, Son of God! Didst Thou come here to torment us before the season?"

They know whats going to happen, and it isn't destruction.  The Greek literal says to ordealize and of course the defintion of that greek word includes torture and the CLV uses the word torment.  Concerning the context of Gods correction torment is a good word.  I do not believe it will be torture as we might think should be happening to a demon.

It is not taught, so it is rarely noticed that Jesus had mercy on the demons.  Now why have mercy on something your going to eventually torture or destroy?

Well I would disagree that Jesus had respect for demons, but I would agree that he had mercy on them. Still, I am curious, just what about demons do you think is worth respecting? Or even still, if you suggest that Jesus respected them, then what about them did he respect? They were asking Jesus was he going to torment them, before their time of torment was to come. Jesus showed respect for his Father Gods timetable, not the demons.

The fact of the matter is why punish them, before their time of being punished has come. This is what Jesus agree to, and it was the demons bargaining chip, knowing that Jesus follows his Fathers will to perfection. To suggest that Jesus did to them what he did, was out of respect for them, is in error.

The demons are doomed. They know it, God knows it and Jesus knows it. There is nothing we can do about it. They willnot continue. Many of Gods creations willnot continue. Roaches, rats, leaches, slugs, the list is endless, they willnot continue, no matter how our hearts bleed for them.

And no matter how certain people hope for the salvation of demons, God looks at them, the same way he looks at all creatures destined to be eliminated, they just will have lived out their purpose, and simply willnot continue.

Peace.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Still, I am curious, just what about demons do you think is worth respecting?

If our  bleeding heart for something doesn't matter, then neither does our hard heart towards them.  Part of understand how Gods love works is understanding that no matter how evil we can call something,  God loves the creature that is evil. 

Why honor the demons request to be cast out to a certain place?   That would be a possible factor of respect.  Why not spite the demons and send them somewhere else rather than  complying with their request?

What is worth respecting is their being, that fact that they are a creation of God,  not what they do.   

What the demons do will be destroyed in the same way our works that are of the flesh will be, but all of Gods creation will be subject to hope, by God.


If any of Gods creation will be totally destroyed, then this verse cannot be true.   Freedom is not total destruction.



Romans 8:21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

[Mickiel]

color=red]that the creation itself, also[/color], shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.[/color]

Demons are not children of God. It is no strange thing to me that some believe in the salvation of demons, people believe the Kingdom is here now, and that they are born again now, these beliefs will give the new birth to themselves, as well as to demons. They take the scriptures by violence, and violently interpit it to fit their own dreams.

Matt. 8:29:" And they cried out, What do we have to do with you, Son of God? Nothing, absolutely nothing! Jesus was not sent to save demons, he never was instructed by God to save them, he never stated, nor has God stated, that Jesus died for demons. But certain humans have stated what God has not, and it is this gall that seeks to add too and take away from scripture.

" Have you come to torment us before the time?" A time of torment is destined for demons, no bleeding heart, scripture changing human can change demonic destiny. The times that God has set, were set and sealed by him, nothing, nothing can change that.

Anyhow, I hold no intrest in the salvation of demons, or roaches, or rats, or slugs, or maggots, or worms, or warthogs, or bats, or every insect God has created. I am not asking God to give eternal life to every bee and wasp he has created. I am not expecting God to give morality to beings he has not chosen too. It was he who molded and shaped the demons, being the potter that he is. He made them for destruction, and no human in their right mind would expect to tell God what to do with them.

But now, thats the real issue, who is in their right mind? Giving salvation to beings that God has not offered it to, is evidence of not being in accordance with the mind of Christ.

Peace.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Mickiel,

I gave my perspective of scripture, what you can point at me personally may or may not be true.

If I am wrong, so be it,  but my personal character does not change scripture and if you are more righteous than me, it does not make your words more true.

Your words are how you see things,  and that is fine,  I have no interest in implying what your character might be simply because I do not agree with you 100%.

Gods creation will be freed as the verse in romans states,  freedom is not total destruction.

[Mickiel]

Mickiel,

I gave my perspective of scripture, what you can point at me personally may or may not be true.

If I am wrong, so be it,  but my personal character does not change scripture and if you are more righteous than me, it does not make your words more true.

Your words are how you see things,  and that is fine,  I have no interest in implying what your character might be simply because I do not agree with you 100%.

Gods creation will be freed as the verse in romans states,  freedom is not total destruction.

I have not pointed anything out about you personally, nor have I said anything about your characther, I am not interested in neither. I do not need or use others personalitys to make any points. God will destroy many things, this earth we stand on is amoung that fate.

People may not understand the destruction, but its not based on their understanding or agreement.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

I can understand the " Way of the Human", but when this way is contrasted with God, then Isaiah 44:25 comes into reality; The Omens of boasters will fail, wise men will draw back, their knowledge will be turned into the foolishness that it really is, and God will confirm the word of his servant. God will make fools out of many who seek to present themselves as being discerners of his word. But God confirms his own word.

Notice Isaiah 45:3;" I will give you the " Treasures of Darkness". Remember I told you that I will show where God will give to humans, the Power that the Darkness has hoarded to themselves. When you perform Gods will, the Power of God is given to you. The Power of Fire is given to you. All the treasures of " The Darkness", will be taken from the Darkness and given to you. And this is the New Knowledge I promised to share with you.

And I want to go into " The Treasures of the Darkness", what that is, and how it will be given to a human. And this is New Knowledge, eye opening and pivital, it could turn you.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree, what did that do to them, and why? Consider this; did the fruit itself contain knowledge, and thus impart the knowledge to the eater? Or did the fruit simply open the mind of the eater, to knowledge that was already availible? Knowledge that was not within the fruit itself, but the fruit was a " Pivot Point", or a " Door", an opening, or an inspiration of sorts.

There is no knowledge within a fruit, why would God put knowledge within a fruit on a tree? No, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is an " Opening of conscious Awareness", of knowledge that existed OUTSIDE of the Tree! Adam and Eve didnot ingest Knowledge by eating, their conscious awareness was " Changed", and ONLY Fire can cause Change! The tree was a tree of FIRE, two kinds of dragon fire, two kinds of burning.

Just as the burning bush was burning with Fire, so was , and IS, the Bigger bush of burning, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil! Fire does not take a shortcut, it burns in all directions. Knowledge is the same, it goes both ways, the way of the human and the way of God, its all consuming. Destined to meet at all points. And then become one.

And not change its path, but burn the old path, and from the destruction, lay a new ground.

And I want to go into Gods Fire, and satans Fire, as they contrast the tree in the garden. AS they combine, combust, join in a destiny so great, that it is just hard to believe, and one will complettely wipe out the other. NOT change the other, but destroy it complettely.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

And this IS the Fire Jesus spoke of that he wished, or prayed, was already kindled, or started. NOt the Fire of change, but total destruction. Total baptism, total elimination of a " Power", a reality, a way of Life that is evil. And this is what demons represent, this way, this knowledge of evil. Not to be changed, but eliminated. And this is a part of God that is to be feared, his tendency  to total eliminate! Oh yes, he created it, but fear him who is able to KILL both body and soul, or the complette cycle of a Lifeforce! A Life he has created.

He can give life to religions, to doctrines, to history, to beliefs and to customs, and then totally destroy them.

He is truly God! Truly decisive, able to begin and to end. Begin and End, think on that. Create and eliminate, build and destroy. Some may seek to undermind his way of " Ending", or destroying. Such thinking will diminish in time.

In our human experience, we are being armed with evil, effected by its power, blending with it, arroused by it. This is no WASTE of time. It IS doing something to us!

It IS bearing a fruit, a benefit, a result, or it would never be. And we will benefit from evils destruction. Not evils change, but its elimination. And I want to touch on that.

Peace.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I have not pointed anything out about you personally, nor have I said anything about your characther, I am not interested in neither. I do not need or use others personalitys to make any points.

LOL,  of course not you sly devil.

[Mickiel]

/quote]

LOL,  of course not you sly devil.

I am not sly, and hope I am not a devil. Yet what I am, is not defined by others, but by God himself. I don't know what God thinks about me, so no human can then know. The blaze is already burning, the Fire of God still " Looting Humanity", still planting seeds.

God gave up his own body, his own essence, his own self extension. PLacing us all in debt, God has calculated the end result. Its really Jesus man, he is that towering Isosolis tower.

Peace.

[Paul Hazelwood]

/quote]

LOL,  of course not you sly devil.

I am not sly, and hope I am not a devil. Yet what I am, is not defined by others, but by God himself. I don't know what God thinks about me, so no human can then know. The blaze is already burning, the Fire of God still " Looting Humanity", still planting seeds.

God gave up his own body, his own essence, his own self extension. PLacing us all in debt, God has calculated the end result. Its really Jesus man, he is that towering Isosolis tower.

Peace.

Right, then thinking who has the mind of Christ or not is not up to you,  well said.

[Mickiel]

Right, then thinking who has the mind of Christ or not is not up to you,  well said.

Exactly, and those who are now predicting what God thinks about them, to the degree of announcing they are born again and have the kingdom within them, are telling us what God thinks about them, as if they perfectly know. Assuming that their lives perfectly reflect the mind of Christ, the perfection is seriously watered down to earths deceptive emperors robe, as they wear it out with the reputation of their sinful lives. And Christ muist be killed a thousand times over to cover their deceptive modes of self liberation.

Peace.

[Nathan]

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree, what did that do to them, and why? Consider this; did the fruit itself contain knowledge, and thus impart the knowledge to the eater? Or did the fruit simply open the mind of the eater, to knowledge that was already availible? Knowledge that was not within the fruit itself, but the fruit was a " Pivot Point", or a " Door", an opening, or an inspiration of sorts.

There is no knowledge within a fruit, why would God put knowledge within a fruit on a tree? No, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is an " Opening of conscious Awareness", of knowledge that existed OUTSIDE of the Tree! Adam and Eve didnot ingest Knowledge by eating, their conscious awareness was " Changed", and ONLY Fire can cause Change! The tree was a tree of FIRE, two kinds of dragon fire, two kinds of burning.

Just as the burning bush was burning with Fire, so was , and IS, the Bigger bush of burning, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil! Fire does not take a shortcut, it burns in all directions. Knowledge is the same, it goes both ways, the way of the human and the way of God, its all consuming. Destined to meet at all points. And then become one.

And not change its path, but burn the old path, and from the destruction, lay a new ground.

And I want to go into Gods Fire, and satans Fire, as they contrast the tree in the garden. AS they combine, combust, join in a destiny so great, that it is just hard to believe, and one will complettely wipe out the other. NOT change the other, but destroy it complettely.

Peace.

If this tree of knowledge is a consuming fire that you claim it to be . . how is it this knowledge they obtained only illuminated their nakedness?  Why did it not illuminate the glory, the love, the presence and purpose of God to them?  I think there indeed is a tree of fire . . .but you're identifying the fire with the wrong tree.

[CHB]

Hi Everyone,

I always thought the tree of knowledge of good and evil was law and grace, or grace and law I should say. Good being grace and evil being law or works.

It doesn't say anything about fire associated with this tree.

CHB

[Mickiel]

Well perhaps I shouldnot have went into this, but you know, whats in you will have to come out sooner or later. In Rev. 4:5;" And from the throne proceed flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven Lamps of Fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." These fires were burning, are burning, but they only consume when God so pleases, they are not consuming his throne. But they are his Power, his landmark, so to speak, his atmosphere, his annointing, his imprint on reality. His both inward and outward reality, its Gods Fire.

So ALL things are actually based on Gods Fire, even the Knowledge of Good and Evil are based on Gods Fire. And they burn, or work out his will. They either consume, or they burn, or stay active in accordance with his will. Once he " Sets his Will", that means he has started his Fire, and the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, was God " Setting Aflame his Fire", and it will either work on man, or consume man. Adam and Eve were not designed to illuminate Gods glory, or his Love or his Purpose for humanity, only to breed humanity. Jesus was designed to illuminate Gods Love and purpose.

The earth was designed to one day be illuminated with Gods Fire, as was humanity.

And I want to get into that, but not to confuse any of you, but illuminate your thinking on this. And listen, much of my thinking didnot want to change, so God had to burn me, my mind, and the change came. I would rather change without the burn, but I simply do not know how to change myself, my understanding, so I am destined to burn, weather I like it or not. Dealing with God is an appointment with Fire. But it is " Holy Fire", unseen and not out to destroy us. But it will destroy the thinking we are accoustomed to in our comfort.

And each of us have an appointment with that. Hes just going to burn us, and gut out these things we believe to be true.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Now consider this: In Gods Kingdom, there will be no need for the Sun  anymore. Rev. 22:5, " The Lord God shall " Illumine",  or Light up everything. This is actually dual in meaning, or triple. God will, or simply be, the Fire of the Universe. The Power that out sources all things. AND, he will Enlighten everyone, or make clear our understanding, which IS the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God will decorate the Universe with his Fire, baptise it with his blessings. And do this to our minds.

Illuminance is intellectual  or Spiritual enlightenment. And Jesus is his Illuminant, not Adam or Eve. We cannot elevate Adam or Eve, or illuminate them into areas they were not designed to be.

Peace.

[Nathan]

You haven't addressed my question.  "If" the tree of knowledge is a consuming fire, then why could Adam and Eve only see their own nakedness?

You're saying all the right things, but about the wrong tree.  If this tree is what you say it is, then why was Adam instructed "not" to partake of it?  Jesus himself said we must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, so that's telling me that we "are" to consume God as he consumes us.  But this tree of knowledge was to be off limits. 

For me, those who live in this tree are not really seeing godliness versus evil . .but they are walking in a world of judgment.  To know what is right versus what is wrong is walking according to your own understanding.  Romans states that law is "the knowledge" of sin.  It's focusing on what's right with some people and wrong with others.  We become judges.  We establish laws of our own.  All with good intentions of course.  For example, you've dug a hole in your back yard, and you don't want anyone to fall in it, so you make an announcement to your family "stay out of the back yard".  That is a law that you want your family to adhere to.  There's no ill intentions with it, you just want the best for your family so you made this rule to keep them safe.

Now, the problem comes when someone enters your back yard.  It's the same back yard.  Nothing has happened or changed, but now, because of the law you created to keep them safe, they've broken it by entering in the back yard and as a result, you're now motivated to confront them . . .

Religion has done the same thing.  We've made up rules and regulations, all with the best of intentions, and no one has really done anything wrong, other than break our laws of religion.  And because we've chosen these laws . .things like . . .don't swear, don't steal, don't do drugs . . .the list is endless . . but does doing any "one" of those things actually affect my righteousness?  Living in the tree of knowledge is a daunting life really.  We become law enforcement rather that freedom walkers. 

Like I said, for me, your thoughts on fire are great, but I just see this in the tree of life and it's the tree of knowledge that is what get's consumed.  I am crucified with Christ, as Paul says.  My mind must be laid aside so that I can let Christ find a place in me to lay his head.  (foxes have holes, birds have nests, but the son of man has no place to lay his head)

[Mickiel]

You haven't addressed my question.  "If" the tree of knowledge is a consuming fire, then why could Adam and Eve only see their own nakedness?

Because it burned their eyes inside out. Cooked their sight, and introduced them to evil. Bonked their brains and they had children after this occured. And the children have been asking questions ever since, so you tell me how to address their questions, there are no answers that these children can see, and none that you will see.

Your questions are not for me, I cannot open what is closed, and don't try all that much. But I am sure someone here can help you, such is not my calling, I am not for opening the minds of others, because my mind is closed itself, I don't even rightly understand your confusion or your questions. I have given the answers, but they are for me and not for you. I can see the answer, yet you cannot. So I am not for you, and you not for me.

Better to ask those who understand you. I simply cannot.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Let me say something about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it is a tree of " Cost." It bears consequences, it is not liberty. Adam and Eve didnot eat from it freely, it cost them something. Gen. 2:16" From any tree of the garden you may eat freely." But from this tree, there is no freedom in eating from it, there will be a price. That price cost us our purity, our pain, our understanding, our Lord curcified. It released the Fire consuming.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

/quote]

Notice Rev.20:9, " And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and Fire came down from heaven and devoured them." Again, this is the Fire Consuming, it came from God. It was released to destroy, no matter who does not understand that God will destroy his creations. This is God, this Fire that destroys, it is death, first or second, it does not matter. It is knowledge that has a cost, which leads to Gods Gift of Life that is without cost. It leads to the Fire that does not consume.

I kind of notice something about God, who has created a whole Lake of his Fire, then he contrast it with a whole River of the Water of Life. In Rev. 22:1, the Water is comming FROM the Throne of God. The Same throne that has 7 different types of Fire IN IT, now releases a Holy Water, clear as crystal, and will heal the nations , or groups of the races of men.

In my minds eye, this is an awesome sight to behold. Gods Fire, and Gods Water, both erupting from him, and consuming everything.

Oh what a being God is!

And I want to go into this unusual contrast. Very simular to the contrast of Good and Evil. Two oppisite  things, comming from God.

Peace.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

/quote]



I have mentioned before that I see aspects of God that most defintely infer that he has Dragon like tendecys himself. Notice Psalms 29:7;" The Voice of the Lord hews out Flames of Fire." I mean, good greif, can you see the obivous reference here? God has Fire all around his throne, and not only that, but Seven different kinds of Fire at that. Talk about a Dragon lair. God can open his mouth and Fire can come out, because it is already obviously within him. So although some are not ready to consume this knowledge, I think God is a certain type of Dragon himself. And may well look like one, having wings and other Dragon like qualitys, just NOT what humans picture as what a Dragon looks like.

One of the reasons that I think no human could look at God and Live, is that just the sight of him, without supernatural intervention on the human mind, would frighten the human into a death shock! They might expect God to look more human than he really does. I think God has certain human feratures, but may well have Dragon like features, because thats part of what he is, a unique mixture of many things.

And some of those things, may well be frightening. Look at Ezek. 10:1-10. Notice how the Cherubim had " Coals of Fire between them", and one could hear even the " Sound of the Cherubim's Wings", like a mighty wind, and this then is compared to Gods Voice when he chooses to Speak. A Loud powerful sound, not this still quiet voice that some think God has. I personally don't believe that God wisphers when he Speaks. I think hes just too Powerful to speak in a whisper, but I am sure he can silence his tone to lower degrees, but not a whispher. Hes just too much for that. And we underestimate him greatly in our deductions.

The court was FILLED with the Brightness of the Lord. God CANNOT enter into ANY area without TOTALLY encompassing everything in that area. And we need to understand this. When God decides to totally enter into a human, he will TOTALLY encompass that human! But he will first train that human to hear him. Just like we must be prepared to see him, changed in our vision and understanding to see him, to see Truth.

And I want to go into Change and Fire, because they are related.

You ever notice that you seem to have to suffer, in order for change to come? I CERTAINLY don't like that, but it is so.

Peace.