a few reasons why I hold UR for a possible interpretation of the bible

[anti_nietzsche]

- the dualism between hell and paradise is never written about in the OT - if ET is true it would be kinda cruel from God not to have warned of it

- it's written a couple of times that God doesn't entertain His wrath forever - ET means endless wrath, and therefor is incompatible with God's character

- Jesus died a cruel death on a cross and knows how dreadful pain can be - it makes little sense that He would condemn somebody to endless pain, if He is indeed the loving Saviour we all know Him to be

- it makes little sense that God veiling the truth from the jews would mean that they have no chance to get saved - the pharisees were evil, alright, but the jews of later times should not be blamed for their father's sins - and the pharisees themselves, well, Jesus prayed for them

- if God cannot tolerate or deal with sin at all, He could have ended the human experiment with Adam and Eve - but God let them enter the world and have children. If UR is true, God simply chose us all to live forever and that's why He put Adam and Eve on the world, for them to have children.

I could think of some more, but all for now. Thanks for reading.

[pneuma]

How about this one

If people are to live in torment forever, then  Christ must be in the torment with them, for it is only in Christ that people have eternal life.

Either that or those who believe in eternal torment must believe that people can have eternal life outside of Christ. But you won't find a scripture that states such.

[Paul Hazelwood]

- the dualism between hell and paradise is never written about in the OT - if ET is true it would be kinda cruel from God not to have warned of it

- it's written a couple of times that God doesn't entertain His wrath forever - ET means endless wrath, and therefor is incompatible with God's character

This is why a debate with a believer of ET typically ends up with them saying that Mankind is responsible for his own fate.

The assertion is that Gods Love is always there but we of our own free will must choose to accept that Love, and if we do not, it is not God that punishes us or who sends his unending wrath upon us, but it is the person who suffers the consequenses of rejecting Christ so we bring "hell" upon ourselves forever.

This point of view also contradicts numerous scriptures, not to mention the fact that if God desires that ALL mankind be saved and Man can refuse that desire then man is given greater power than God.

We do choose to believe in the sense that it is each of us individually that comes to believe.   John 6:44 is the means by which that choice or that acceptance will come about.   

[WhiteWings]

Ok let me start that I agree with your points. Not 100% but that's just because I'm not fully UR.
Below I will 'debunk' your points to fire up this thread is a positive way. At least I hope so.

- the dualism between hell and paradise is never written about in the OT - if ET is true it would be kinda cruel from God not to have warned of it

He gave a lot of warnings about sin. He set several strong examples. One of them is the flood.

- it's written a couple of times that God doesn't entertain His wrath forever - ET means endless wrath, and therefor is incompatible with God's character

What if in His opinion, whatever the reason, it's the only way to go?
He also could let all murderers and idolator directly into heaven without any form of correction.
He also could give everyone eternal life right now.
But He has His reasons not to do so.

- Jesus died a cruel death on a cross and knows how dreadful pain can be - it makes little sense that He would condemn somebody to endless pain, if He is indeed the loving Saviour we all know Him to be

Hell is so bad, God wants to go to great length  to let repent people before death.

- it makes little sense that God veiling the truth from the jews would mean that they have no chance to get saved - the pharisees were evil, alright, but the jews of later times should not be blamed for their father's sins - and the pharisees themselves, well, Jesus prayed for them

That doesn't mean everyone gets of the hook. Everyone on this forum has at least 1 Bible and is fully aware of the concequences of sin.

- if God cannot tolerate or deal with sin at all, He could have ended the human experiment with Adam and Eve - but God let them enter the world and have children. If UR is true, God simply chose us all to live forever and that's why He put Adam and Eve on the world, for them to have children.

Pehaps He never planned the Heaven be a busy place.

[Paul Hazelwood]

- the dualism between hell and paradise is never written about in the OT - if ET is true it would be kinda cruel from God not to have warned of it

He gave a lot of warnings about sin. He set several strong examples. One of them is the flood.

But no warnings of eternal pain and suffering at any level. 

- it's written a couple of times that God doesn't entertain His wrath forever - ET means endless wrath, and therefor is incompatible with God's character

What if in His opinion, whatever the reason, it's the only way to go?
He also could let all murderers and idolator directly into heaven without any form of correction.
He also could give everyone eternal life right now.
But He has His reasons not to do so.

I can agree with this,  Gods character can be questionable simply by creating beings and subjecting them to evil against our will which the bible does say happened.  So our opinion of his character is subject to how we feel which doesn't matter.   Biblically, we must demonstrate what God is doing.   What he is doing is creating mankind into his image.
   

[bobf]

He gave a lot of warnings about sin. He set several strong examples. One of them is the flood.

We might be inclined to liken the flood to God sending people to hell, but what does God liken the flood to?

Isaiah 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

[laren]

He gave a lot of warnings about sin. He set several strong examples. One of them is the flood.

We might be inclined to liken the flood to God sending people to hell, but what does God liken the flood to?

Isaiah 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

YEEHAAA

awesome scripture bob

thanks for posting

[Taffy]

He gave a lot of warnings about sin. He set several strong examples. One of them is the flood.

We might be inclined to liken the flood to God sending people to hell, but what does God liken the flood to?

Isaiah 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Amen Bob,  :icon_flower:  Further More, The wicked are Those who Under The WATER,( flood= WATERS beneath) Psa. 18:4, Psa. 17:13 and 14 )symbolically meaning  those dwelling in the Old C, being   those who are DEAD to HIM,...oppossed to Those by Faith dwelling in HIS REST rise above the WATERS called heaven.

shown here in Genesis.., shown equally DIVIDING THE night( CALLED DARKNESS) FROM THE LIGHT,AGAIN SYMBOLIC OF two Covenants

Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the

Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Gen 1:4  And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Gen 1:6  And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


Gen 1:7  And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.


Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day .


The flood is likened for mine as the OLD C...its served its Purpose as Tutor to lead One to Christ ,this again is Shown In Math as Christ WALKING above the sea ( the waters ABOVE) encouraging those Like Peter to do Like wise...oh yea of LITTLE FAITH.

AGAIN unto the JEWS who to were UNDER the waters...by faith we rise to the the ABOVE, IF ONE REMAINS iN THE OLD THEY TO LIKE IN THE FLOOD will die in their sins....

Jhn 8:21  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.


Jhn 8:22  Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.


Jhn 8:23  And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jhn 8:24  I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins

The wicked part of everyman is the carnal mind\FLESH, The LOF is the Place where that Flesh will perish so the spirit can LIVE.

[WhiteWings]

Another lesson learned. Rub against the hairs (or whatever the expression is in English) and you get the best answers. :thumbsup:
Debunker debunked. Fortunately!

bobf: Great quote!
(No more water. Only fire :laughing7: )

Paul

I can agree with this,  Gods character can be questionable simply by creating beings and subjecting them to evil against our will which the bible does say happened.  So our opinion of his character is subject to how we feel which doesn't matter.   Biblically, we must demonstrate what God is doing.   What he is doing is creating mankind into his image.

I got kinda flamed in a thread about 'image' (no harm done boys and girls)
As I understood image was about soul and spirit.
If the image is also character then ET can be very real. There are enough people who would have great pleasure in roasting others...  :sigh:

[Paul Hazelwood]

White Wings,

I agree,  the issue of ET is not about what we feel about its justice or fairness or otherwise when it comes to a sovereign God.

You will not find the word character in the greek or hebrew, that I am aware of.  If it is there, I do not believe it will pertain to the image of God.  In fact of several translations I did a search in, the word character is not even in them at all.   If a bible translation does contain that word I would question it's accuracy.


Gods image has nothing to do with character, because character is primarily a point of view based on feeling and perception within a predefined set of parameters.

Someone of poor character to me, may be of good character to another.

When it comes to God,  someone saying his character is evil or somone saying his character is good will be based on how they feel about the actions they use to determine that character.

[Nathan]

The wicked part of everyman is the carnal mind\FLESH, The LOF is the Place where that Flesh will perish so the spirit can LIVE

By "flesh" are you refering to the physical body?  or the carnality "within" the mind?

[Taffy]

The wicked part of everyman is the carnal mind\FLESH, The LOF is the Place where that Flesh will perish so the spirit can LIVE

By "flesh" are you refering to the physical body?  or the carnality "within" the mind?

the latter bro..the carnal mind that is enmity, but both Mean the same scripture wise., when paul refers to the flesh its the carnality of the MIND.... :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Taaaaaf!!!!  I know you know!!!  sigh . . .but it sounded like Paul was referring to the former.  (Raise your hand next time!) :grin:

[Taffy]

I just edited that Last post..as when Paul refers to the flesh Its easy to think of it being our bodies,..but the flesh is the enmity of the Mind..same thing :icon_flower: call it either


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. 

As the LOF  IS the Death of Death , then thats where this dead mind will be purged\cleansed by fire,..the result being the death of the carnal mind

[Nathan]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

[Taffy]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

Gee Nat..I thought that was another Thread...I see ONE FIRE Christ with different  functions ,Those now are Purged through His Blood,Fire, therefore their Carnal minds are No more ,that is those in HIM, our minds created New....the function of the Lake is again, the fire which too purges  also the Mind....so the twenty Dollar question is are they The same ...., well One would say

YES,

(without the fear of Dear Craig jumping in  to post what he believes.).. God will be all and One has to be Cleansed either way, and thats through HIM.....

Be Interested On Pneuma sthoughts to this also,

blessings

[laren]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

Gee Nat..I thought that was another Thread...I see ONE FIRE Christ with different  functions ,Those now are Purged through His Blood,Fire, therefore their Carnal minds are No more ,that is those in HIM, our minds created New....the function of the Lake is again, the fire which too purges  also the Mind....so the twenty Dollar question is are they The same ...., well One would say

YES,

(without the fear of Dear Craig jumping in  to post what he believes.).. God will be all and One has to be Cleansed either way, and thats through HIM.....

Be Interested On Pneuma sthoughts to this also,

blessings

here's a question for ya,

I agree the mind is what is purged.  But if one "physically" dies "in their sin", not having ears opened in this "physical life", and has to face lake of fire in "the next life" to have their "mind" purged then;

how does the mind live in the next age??  the mind, as i see it is a result of "physical body-brain functioning while spirit of life is in it.  It functions in the "natural"".  So to be purged in the next life, will the person be resurrected into another"/person/physical body; to go through the purging of the mind that is dependent upon that body??    as if the resurrection to judgement is a resurrection to "natural" again; ie; natural to natural; then spiritual after purged?? 

or is the "mind" separate from the "physical body" and it is purged without the "physical body" wakening;  meaning the mind doesn't need a brain/matter??


hope this makes sense.

Laren

[CHB]

how does the mind live in the next age??  the mind, as i see it is a
result of "physical body-brain functioning while spirit of life is in it.  It functions in the "natural"".  So to be purged in the next life, will the person be resurrected into another"/person/physical body; to go through the purging of the mind that is dependent upon that body??    as if the resurrection to judgement is a resurrection to "natural" again; ie; natural to natural; then spiritual after purged?? 

or is the "mind" separate from the "physical body" and it is purged without the "physical body" wakening;  meaning the mind doesn't need a brain/matter??

I have always believed that we would be raised with a physical body just like Christ was. Paul said we would put on our immortality. Paul said (2Cor. 5:2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house.  It sounds like these bodies will just be changed from mortal to immortal. In verse 4 Paul says "not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

I have wondered about this verse. (2Cor. 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.   Wouldn't we have to be mortal to do this? Also, do you think this is being done now in this life?

CHB

[Taffy]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

Gee Nat..I thought that was another Thread...I see ONE FIRE Christ with different  functions ,Those now are Purged through His Blood,Fire, therefore their Carnal minds are No more ,that is those in HIM, our minds created New....the function of the Lake is again, the fire which too purges  also the Mind....so the twenty Dollar question is are they The same ...., well One would say

YES,

(without the fear of Dear Craig jumping in  to post what he believes.).. God will be all and One has to be Cleansed either way, and thats through HIM.....

Be Interested On Pneuma sthoughts to this also,

blessings

here's a question for ya,

I agree the mind is what is purged.  But if one "physically" dies "in their sin", not having ears opened in this "physical life", and has to face lake of fire in "the next life" to have their "mind" purged then;

how does the mind live in the next age??  the mind, as i see it is a result of "physical body-brain functioning while spirit of life is in it.  It functions in the "natural"".  So to be purged in the next life, will the person be resurrected into another"/person/physical body; to go through the purging of the mind that is dependent upon that body??    as if the resurrection to judgement is a resurrection to "natural" again; ie; natural to natural; then spiritual after purged?? 

or is the "mind" separate from the "physical body" and it is purged without the "physical body" wakening;  meaning the mind doesn't need a brain/matter??


hope this makes sense.

Laren

trust you Laren :icon_flower:...

do you know...the more I Understand the more I come to see the NOW....But for sure, i dont have all the answers,

For some time ,ive  see the Lake as the Cross Bro, Those who pass through It are those who come From LAW,...IN ESSENCE , thats what Im think im trying to say , ,,, it doesnt speak of those OUTSIDE,..as of yet..even thou in truth all men are under law if they Know it or not

I understand that HE will have Mercy on all, and that One day, every Knee shall bow,and that HE WILL BE GLORIFIED, and HAVE mercy on all..I really dont see the NEED of a REPEAT of another physical existance to have The soul ( mind and heart) Purged...might seem nuts, but for now thats what im beginning to understand...I normally dont say anything Unless I see and Understand ,the Pictures set within my mind, so, before I get a Kick In, this is very much off the Cuff,as I understand the other propositions which can, and will be made, been there got many a T-shirt.


I see the Purpose of all who LIVE in HIM now, to be for HIS GLORY,..as was Pharoah raised for the same Purpose..., tis HIS ball game, we are just players , set within HIS PARK,....

hope this gives you something to dwell on to where Im being led Bro...and again this is Not set In stone,..Im speaking very much off the cuff.

[pneuma]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

Gee Nat..I thought that was another Thread...I see ONE FIRE Christ with different  functions ,Those now are Purged through His Blood,Fire, therefore their Carnal minds are No more ,that is those in HIM, our minds created New....the function of the Lake is again, the fire which too purges  also the Mind....so the twenty Dollar question is are they The same ...., well One would say

YES,

(without the fear of Dear Craig jumping in  to post what he believes.).. God will be all and One has to be Cleansed either way, and thats through HIM.....

Be Interested On Pneuma sthoughts to this also,

blessings

Hi Taffy, I agree ONE FIRE, TWO ASPECTS.
The ONE FIRE both refines and destroys.
To me it is the FIRE of the LAW, it is ONE LAW and it is ordained unto LIFE, but is also a ministration of DEATH and our schoolmaster that leads to Christ, for the LAW was given for the salvation of the soul. Ro.7:10 & 2Co.3:7 & Gal.3:24 & Ps.19:7

When the soul sins it transgresses the LAW that God is writing in our hearts and minds, thus the DEATH aspect of the FIRE has power to hurt us and causes us to cry out in our torment as Paul did when he said ``O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?``Ro.7:24

When the soul is obedient unto the LAW, DEATH has no power over it and it is not hurt of it.

If we obey the spirit (the law is spiritual) we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, but if we listen to the flesh the DEATH is what is promised and Death is what we get.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the LAW, If Adam had of listened to God he would not have suffered Death, but as Adam disobeyed God and ate he fell from the state of grace he had and came under the ministration of DEATH. And what is it that the ministration of DEATH does? It is our SCHOOLMASTER that leads us to CHRIST.

Everyone who falls from grace is UNDER THE SCHOOLMASTER/DEATH whether they be sinner or saint. And the only way out of DEATH is total obedience to the spirit (the law is spiritual) that God is writing or written within our hearts and mind.

Rev.22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


God bless

[Taffy]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

Gee Nat..I thought that was another Thread...I see ONE FIRE Christ with different  functions ,Those now are Purged through His Blood,Fire, therefore their Carnal minds are No more ,that is those in HIM, our minds created New....the function of the Lake is again, the fire which too purges  also the Mind....so the twenty Dollar question is are they The same ...., well One would say

YES,

(without the fear of Dear Craig jumping in  to post what he believes.).. God will be all and One has to be Cleansed either way, and thats through HIM.....

Be Interested On Pneuma sthoughts to this also,

blessings

Hi Taffy, I agree ONE FIRE, TWO ASPECTS.
The ONE FIRE both refines and destroys.
To me it is the FIRE of the LAW, it is ONE LAW and it is ordained unto LIFE, but is also a ministration of DEATH and our schoolmaster that leads to Christ, for the LAW was given for the salvation of the soul. Ro.7:10 & 2Co.3:7 & Gal.3:24 & Ps.19:7

When the soul sins it transgresses the LAW that God is writing in our hearts and minds, thus the DEATH aspect of the FIRE has power to hurt us and causes us to cry out in our torment as Paul did when he said ``O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?``Ro.7:24

When the soul is obedient unto the LAW, DEATH has no power over it and it is not hurt of it.

If we obey the spirit (the law is spiritual) we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, but if we listen to the flesh the DEATH is what is promised and Death is what we get.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the LAW, If Adam had of listened to God he would not have suffered Death, but as Adam disobeyed God and ate he fell from the state of grace he had and came under the ministration of DEATH. And what is it that the ministration of DEATH does? It is our SCHOOLMASTER that leads us to CHRIST.

Everyone who falls from grace is UNDER THE SCHOOLMASTER/DEATH whether they be sinner or saint. And the only way out of DEATH is total obedience to the spirit (the law is spiritual) that God is writing or written within our hearts and mind.

Rev.22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


God bless

Thanks for your Input Scott :thumbsup:

[Taffy]

I have always believed that we would be raised with a physical body just like Christ was. Paul said we would put on our immortality. Paul said (2Cor. 5:2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house.  It sounds like these bodies will just be changed from mortal to immortal. In verse 4 Paul says "not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

I have wondered about this verse. (2Cor. 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.   Wouldn't we have to be mortal to do this? Also, do you think this is being done now in this life?

Charlotte...isnt Judgment the Cross?....men to die , then Judgment, that is .laying down the Carnal Mind ,be Born anew in HIM?

Moving from the Physical Tabernacle to the SPIRITUAL one, being HIM who Clothes us In righteousness, to Move from this PHYSICAL body to be present with HIM in the NEW?

ALL men are called to to Judgment, even those in HIM are Judged NOW, we too can slip away...be it those GOOD or BAD?

[CHB]

I have always believed that we would be raised with a physical body just like Christ was. Paul said we would put on our immortality. Paul said (2Cor. 5:2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house.  It sounds like these bodies will just be changed from mortal to immortal. In verse 4 Paul says "not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

I have wondered about this verse. (2Cor. 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.   Wouldn't we have to be mortal to do this? Also, do you think this is being done now in this life?

Charlotte...isnt Judgment the Cross?....men to die , then Judgment, that is .laying down the Carnal Mind ,be Born anew in HIM?

Moving from the Physical Tabernacle to the SPIRITUAL one, being HIM who Clothes us In righteousness, to Move from this PHYSICAL body to be present with HIM in the NEW?

ALL men are called to to Judgment, even those in HIM are Judged NOW, we too can slip away...be it those GOOD or BAD?

Could be you are right Taffy, I just don't know. I am still trying to figure it all out.

Will we all stand before the judgment seat, or is this happening now? (Rev. 20:12)  And I saw the dead, {these people are dead, whether spiritual, physical, or both, I do not know.} small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:... {I presume law books...and another book was opened, which is the book of life:... Christ... and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The way I understand this is,...this is talking about those under the law, those who are dead. Since they are judged according to their works, it must be speaking of those who are law keepers. we under grace have no works of our own, all of our works are those of Christ. I do believe the book of Revelation was written to Israel.

I would like opinions on this.

CHB

[Taffy]

The way I understand this is,...this is talking about those under the law, those who are dead. Since they are judged according to their works, it must be speaking of those who are law keepers. we under grace have no works of our own, all of our works are those of Christ. I do believe the book of Revelation was written to Israel

Yes C...Judgment is Now for those In Him, but equally so, for those coming to HIM,.. but He judges In righteousness sis..which through the CROSS brings Life, Not death..His ways are NOT our WAYS....

keep digging on this Charlotte :icon_flower:..step by step ..Let HIM unfold it for you,..For me ,your very MUCH on the Right Track,  :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Bless ya sis

[Nathan]

Okay Taf, I have a question for ya now . . . are those who have accepted Christ, do you see them going through the same lake of fire as those who don't?

"If" I've accepted Christ . . .why then would I be exposed to the lake of Fire?  Isn't the act of inviting Christ in, over-riding the necessity for purging sin out?  I'm not saying that it's okay sin remains . .I'm saying . . .Jesus went to the cross and suffered on our behalf.  So by accepting him in my life . . . why would God then put me through the lake of fire?  How can he purge out what he no longer sees in me?