What would you guys do if the Bible did really contain the concept of ET?

[Paul]

Let's pretend there really wasn't a case for UR.

(A) Continue to believe in the Bible

(B) Reject the Bible

[Paul Hazelwood]

I addressed this in another thread.   I will always believe in God, I am convinced at this point that the bible is the word of God.  If I truly believe that ET is Gods plan then I will ask him to allow me to be with the lost as I have helped some of them get there and if there is no hope for someone that I helped attain that position, then I will not enter heaven.


If ET is true under the assumption that God has predestined who will be in either place, then it isn't going to matter what I pretend to believe.  God doesn't sell fire insurance.

[Taffy]

Let's pretend there really wasn't a case for UR.

(A) Continue to believe in the Bible

(B) Reject the Bible

As one who from the off never believed in ET, even in those early days when everything was new to me, therefore  these questions are not applicable.

A God of Love who burns 90%+ of his creation just never made sence, therefore ,who ever preached it ,I never even considered it..Tis true... :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

In my personal life, the way I see it, it shouldn't matter whether it's in the Bible or not . .. I would continue to let Christ live in me.  Whether Saddam is there or not is really of no consequence to me.  I believe if he isn't yet, he will be in the end. . .but whether or not the Bible supported it . . .I would continue pursuing Christ.  Hopefully, it's the same with all of the belief's that are out there.  Whether or not one is right or another is wrong . . . It shouldn't affect our quest for our own relationship of a perfected heart in Christ.

[Craig]

Let's pretend there really wasn't a case for UR.

(A) Continue to believe in the Bible

Yes, the only reason I know of UR was through a vision given to me by God. There is a case for UR, He shown me this in three days and that is when reading Scripture changed. There is only one way to read Scripture, and that is by the nature of the One who inspired it, and that is "Love".

(B) Reject the Bible

I am not some ignorant fool who would lean on my own understanding of how things should be compared to what things actually say. If there was no case for UR in the Bible, I would need to consider if the Bible was ever inspired by God, and Christianity the Truth or submit that UR was a fanciful idea but I just completely didn't understand the nuances of why infinite torment of a finite individual for his finite actions could be true. I would be like an SDA, and believe in annihilationism.

[CHB]

I would be like an SDA, and believe in annihilationism.

Before coming to believe in the salvation of all I believed in annihilation, it made more sense than ET to me and there are more scriptures to support it than ET.

If you think about it, there are scriptures to support ET, annihilation, and UR, it all depends on how you want to interpret them.

CHB

[laren]

If you think about it, there are scriptures to support ET, annihilation, and UR, it all depends on how you want to interpret them.

CHB

I agree.  For me, it was from a place of brokeness, that I was able to see that LOVE never FAILS. 

[WhiteWings]

If you think about it, there are scriptures to support ET, annihilation, and UR, it all depends on how you want to interpret them.

More important is in what doctrine all scripures fit.
If 99% can be read as ET and UR and 1% only as UR then UR is proven.
Simply because a contradiction would mean either God was lying or mistaking.

[AJ]

I wrote the below study some years ago, AJ.

===========================================
THE IMPLICATIONS of our BELIEFS -   


What if the view the Ultimate Salvation and Reconciliation of all Mankind is wrong?

Matt 12:36 - "Men will have to give account on the Day of Judgment for every careless word spoken."
Those who hold to the view of UR,
will someday be held accountable before God:


(1.) For accepting, that our Sovereign God who is all powerful and that he is well able to perform that which is necessary, to fulfill all his will for the saving of all mankind.
(1 Tim 4:10)


(2.) For accepting, that our omniscient God is all wise, foreseeing every problem and then creating a solution, thereby reconciling all mankind unto Himself and oneanother.


(3.) For accepting, that our God will reconcile unto himself everyone, as the Scripture states he will. (Col 1:20)


(4.) For accepting, that the blood of Christ Jesus, that was spilled at Calvary, not only provided salvation for all men,
but is great enough to liberate and eventually, redeem and ransom all mankind that are lost. (2 Cor. 5:15, 1 Tim. 2:6)


(5.) For accepting, that Satan (our flesh)  was unable to forever damn even one soul.
(1 John 3:8 )


(6.) For accepting, that none of God's plans were thwarted.
(1 Tim. 2:4, Isa. 46:10)


(7.) For accepting, that God's mercy truly does endure forever, for everyone.


(8.) For accepting, that there is wonderful hope for all mankind, through the 'glorious gospel' of peace to all men.
(2 Cor. 4:4)


Well now, what if I am wrong?
What if it somehow - isn't God's intentions to save ALL mankind?

The WORST thing that could happen with me, for holding the view that 'GOD WILL SAVE and
RECONCILE ALL of MANKIND' - is that I will have to apologize to God because I thought He
was better then preachers were trying to tell me He was.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Likewise - what if the views  ET - Eternal Torment or  ED - Annihilation for the LOST is wrong?

Matt 12:36 -" Men will have to give account on the Day of Judgment for every careless word spoken."
Those who hold to these views, ET / ED
will someday be held accountable before God for accepting:


(1.) That the Almighty God, is being defeated, when taught that myriad of unsaved ones, would go away unto
Eternal Punishment or Eternal Death, because The Sovereign God would not be capable of redeeming them.
(in otherwords the creature,.... whom God had created, has become as strong willed as the Creator.
and the Creator can do nothing about it...... - this is ridiculous)


(2.) That the all omniscient and wise God was not smart enough to provide a redemption plan around
the stubbornness of some men.


(3.) That some of God's plans and purposes will indeed be thwarted.
(this is contrary to Isa 45:10 - that states that NONE of God's plans will every be thwarted)


(4.) That Satan (our flesh)  was victorious through deception, thereby condemning millions of men to an endless
anguish of burning hell. 
(an utter error - Isa 25:8 & 1 Jn 3:8 - because Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.)


(5.) That the blood of Jesus Christ was spilled in vain for those he was unable to redeem.
this is a lie - (2 Cor. 5:15, 1 Tim. 2:6 - Jesus tasted death for Every man, and Jesus is a ransom for All men.)


(6.) That there are limits to God's love, mercy and forgiveness.


(7.) That some men will teach 'a different gospel' - it's only a so called good news,...... that also imposes fear and
intimidation upon lost men, ...... of such a nature that lost men, must receive their words, or .....it is said,
that they will be sure to be tormented and fried for eternity.


(8.) That man's eternal destiny is sealed at his death, and if he dies as lost, then he is hopelessly lost for forever. 
(The following verse is future tense, therefore, there is hope for all mankind .......Phil 2:9 - Every knee
will bow and Every tongue will confess righteousness and strength in the Lord.)



Please consider now, my friend, what if YOU are wrong?
What if God's DOES reconcile ALL, just as He states He will?

What do you suppose will happen to you,....on that day of judgment..... for holding the view that 'GOD'S IS UNABLE TO SAVE ALL', - when in fact and indeed He does?
Perhaps a little weeping and wailing - when you finally realized that you've been slandering your Savior all your life?

Until now, dear one, perhaps you could claim ignorance on this issue,...... but no more,.... you can no longer plead ignorant. You already know to much for that.

[WhiteWings]

Perhaps a little weeping and wailing - when you finally realized that you've been slandering your Savior all your life?

Does the same apply if UR isn't true?
ETers always said it was just fine to send people to hell.
However UR folks say God would ve worse than satan for doing so.
Also slander and/or trying control God.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Or we could find out that because we believed in a God we will reincarnate into something like a horse fly and upon discovering what a crappy deal that was you see the bug zapper when it's too late.   :laughing7:

[Michele]

Re: What would you guys do if the Bible did really contain the concept of ET?

My answer.....simple....I would still keep the greater hope within my heart, and the belief that God is good, and He has the power to carry out His will!

[hopeful]

I was personally asked this very question before. 

I didn't give an answer at the time because it made me feel very pressured.  The question was springing from fear and a belief that I wasn't obeying the Bible. 

Some time after this question was asked of me, I had a question of my own that I could have asked him:

What if you found out that the Bible "said" you should kill your wife and children?  Would you obey the Bible or just ignore it?

What a stupid and unfair question.

[Paul]

What if you found out that the Bible "said" you should kill your wife and children?  Would you obey the Bible or just ignore it?

What a stupid and unfair question.

I think the answer is one would obey it. Think about the time when God commanded Moses to sacrifice his son.

[Michele]

What if you found out that the Bible "said" you should kill your wife and children?  Would you obey the Bible or just ignore it?

What a stupid and unfair question.

I think the answer is one would obey it. Think about the time when God commanded Moses to sacrifice his son.

Hi Paul...do you mean Abraham......I don't remember God commanding Moses to sacrifice his son?

I believe that God spoke to Abraham's heart/spirit/mind.....whatever you want to call it.  God speaks to us the same way today...this is the same way that God can speak to us when we read the scriptures, or when we are simply taking a walk outside, driving....or talking with friends or family, etc........ 

[WhiteWings]

All Christians believe in the story of Abraham.
I wonder what the same Christians would think if their neighbor killed his children on command of God.
Would they think the neighbor is:
a] Insane.
b] Just a murderer.
c] Blessed because of his close relation with God.
d] Fooled by satan.

[Craig]

All Christians believe in the story of Abraham.
I wonder what the same Christians would think if their neighbor killed his children on command of God.
Would they think the neighbor is:
a] Insane.
b] Just a murderer.
c] Blessed because of his close relation with God.
d] Fooled by satan.

Insane murderer fooled by Satan. :)

[Nathan]

NUTS Whitewings you beat me to it!

This has been a platform of mine lately.  I'm in a different place with the Word than I have been in the recent past.  Actually, it's a lot like other areas in my life . . . I see things that I can't fully explain, but I know there's a change in the atmosphere as to how it's to be taken.  Then later understanding does eventually come . .so long as I don't reject the original seed of it in the beginning.

Reading the Word . .literally . .applying it . .literally . .is no longer effective as it once was . . .because God is leading us into the person of rest . . .away from our days of works and labor.  Same Word, same outcome, different process.  When revelating in Truth, we're to see what lies beneath.  Scripture never says Goliath is the carnal man and the cutting off of his head is to resemble how we're to come to Christ . . .headless . . .  and it "won't" say it.  People . . .on this forum even . .have come against our efforts to share on a revelatory manner due to the fact that we're not proving ourselves with Scripture and verse of everything we're seeing.

If it's not in the Bible . .then it's probably not of God . . .or at least that's the implication.  But yet it was CLEAR in the days of Abraham that men were never to sacrifice another man . . . But yet God came to Abraham and asked him to do the very thing that men were not to do . .and Abraham never argued it . .never hesitated and wondered "is that God?".  He never based his relationship on what was written, but on what he heard.  God didn't speak to Adam through the law, but through his heart.  Abraham obviously knew the law, that's why he was sacrificing in the first place.  But when the Word came and instructed him to do something against the law . . .he didn't hesitate.

I'm also reminded of Peter . . .God lowered the sheet . . .told Peter to break his law, Peter refused . . . But once Peter realized the truth, he obeyed and as a result, the Spirit was poured out to the Gentile race.

The Word without the Spirit will just make you old and brittle.  But when the Spirit illumates the Word . . ."then" light and life will illuminate through you.  Someone said on another thread that even Jesus had to be "anointed" by God before he went into ministry.  That's a powerful revelation in and of itself.

[Nathan]

Sotw . .did you understand his question?  Or did I misunderstand it.

[Michele]

NUTS Whitewings you beat me to it!

This has been a platform of mine lately.  I'm in a different place with the Word than I have been in the recent past.  Actually, it's a lot like other areas in my life . . . I see things that I can't fully explain, but I know there's a change in the atmosphere as to how it's to be taken.  Then later understanding does eventually come . .so long as I don't reject the original seed of it in the beginning.

Reading the Word . .literally . .applying it . .literally . .is no longer effective as it once was . . .because God is leading us into the person of rest . . .away from our days of works and labor.  Same Word, same outcome, different process.  When revelating in Truth, we're to see what lies beneath.  Scripture never says Goliath is the carnal man and the cutting off of his head is to resemble how we're to come to Christ . . .headless . . .  and it "won't" say it.  People . . .on this forum even . .have come against our efforts to share on a revelatory manner due to the fact that we're not proving ourselves with Scripture and verse of everything we're seeing.

If it's not in the Bible . .then it's probably not of God . . .or at least that's the implication.  But yet it was CLEAR in the days of Abraham that men were never to sacrifice another man . . . But yet God came to Abraham and asked him to do the very thing that men were not to do . .and Abraham never argued it . .never hesitated and wondered "is that God?".  He never based his relationship on what was written, but on what he heard.  God didn't speak to Adam through the law, but through his heart.  Abraham obviously knew the law, that's why he was sacrificing in the first place.  But when the Word came and instructed him to do something against the law . . .he didn't hesitate.

I'm also reminded of Peter . . .God lowered the sheet . . .told Peter to break his law, Peter refused . . . But once Peter realized the truth, he obeyed and as a result, the Spirit was poured out to the Gentile race.

The Word without the Spirit will just make you old and brittle.  But when the Spirit illumates the Word . . ."then" light and life will illuminate through you.  Someone said on another thread that even Jesus had to be "anointed" by God before he went into ministry.  That's a powerful revelation in and of itself.

That is powerful......great post Nathan!  Much to think about.....

[rhellis]

Suppose I re-read the Bible in Greek and concluded that it's over-all message involves eternal torment for some-- I would immediately reject the Bible as the most diabolical work in all of human literature. I would wage a personal war against faith in the Bible, trying to convince everyone to reject the Bible and embrace a more humane vision of God, humanity, and the universe.

That being said, I love the Bible, and I love Jesus even more. It just doesn't teach ET-- nor did he.

[aspiring son]

Suppose I re-read the Bible in Greek and concluded that it's over-all message involves eternal torment for some-- I would immediately reject the Bible as the most diabolical work in all of human literature. I would wage a personal war against faith in the Bible, trying to convince everyone to reject the Bible and embrace a more humane vision of God, humanity, and the universe.

That being said, I love the Bible, and I love Jesus even more. It just doesn't teach ET-- nor did he.

Going along those same lines, the bible clearly showing ET would mean that God was very contradictory with His own words (forgive 77 times 7.....) and the fruits of the spirit would be such things as hate, vengence, etc... Aren't the fruits of the spirit the God's character? If all this were true, love would be an enemy of the God of the Bible.

[B_T]

What would you guys do if the Bible did really contain the concept of ET?

No matter what it contains, I will continue to believe in Universal salvation.

[Paul]

Ok, so you'd be rejecting the Bible. If you rejected the Bible, you wouldn't believe any of it: God, Jesus...

[B_T]

Ok, so you'd be rejecting the Bible. If you rejected the Bible, you wouldn't believe any of it: God, Jesus...

Probably you are right... But that way I will have a bigger chance to enter heaven.Imagine trying to love God because you have to ... this would be a hypocrisy.