Elect or no elect?

[Mickiel]

But why may people not say they are called.
By having made over 600 post on this board you also adverstise you are a Christian.
Who cares? Why not keep it a secret?
A large part of your life is communicating with people. Don't you ever talk to the people in your neigeborhood besides "Hey, I'm black and that's all you need to know about me."
The fact that your are black is so obvious noone would argue with that fact. But many other things are not so obvious.
The fact that you stated you are black is strickly speaking of no use on this board. It would be on a KKK forum.
So I think saying you are called is relavant on a board like this. But because personally I feel absolutely zero of a link with God and because the quoted verse, I asked what I asked Martin(and others who feel called)

Well I am not christian, and have never stated as such. And I think stateing I am black, is more relevant on this board than to state I am called. I know I am black, but I do not know I am called. I couldcareless about how relevant you think me being black is relevant to this board, and I do not view being called as relevant to this board. Our relevance comes from God, not from boards. Our meaning comes from God, not our race. But what many who claim the calling of God have done, is to create a new race of elected people, they have done so within their own minds, and then seek to label these boards as places of Gods people.

And this is how churchs are started. People here are communicating that they are elected of God, I don't share in that communication, I only share my own views. As far as communicating with my neighborhood, I counsel prisoners for the federal board of prisioners every day, some of whom I grew up with in Detroit. Thats my job, my employment.

And its my Joy.

Peace.

[joyful1]

Okay...I've got a brief comment about "election." But first, I have 2 pressing matters:

1--I'm still waiting to see what Dallas is going to do with his "alphabet soup" at the beginning of this thread....

2-- and I MUST know what the little  walking white wings wabbit means ?

Joyce  :happygrin:

[Molly]

Well I am not christian, and have never stated as such. And I think stateing I am black, is more relevant on this board than to state I am called. I know I am black, but I do not know I am called. I couldcareless about how relevant you think me being black is relevant to this board, and I do not view being called as relevant to this board.

If you want to see God's elect, take a look at Martin Luther King, Jr.--called, chosen, prophet of God, and God's elect.   Not all of God's elect are that famous, but all look just like him, IMO.

[Molly]

If God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.

It is not a private thing.

God's elect are the light of the world--just like Jesus was, --following in the footsteps of Jesus.


Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Christ was the light of the world, and so are his elect.


John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.


The elect are the city on the hill, the light of the world.


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

[Mickiel]

If God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.

It is not a private thing.

It most defintely is a private thing to God, not to be made a public thing of, as many are doing now. The reason God elected them is private, and they were not elected to make a public display of it.

Peace.

[Molly]

If God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.

It is not a private thing.

It most defintely is a private thing to God, not to be made a public thing of, as many are doing now. The reason God elected them is private, and they were not elected to make a public display of it.

Peace.

They can't help but make a public display of it.  They are a city set on a hill.

Martin Luther King did not go around saying, "I am God's elect."  He went around very publically doing the work of God on this earth.

There are thousands of them out there--you will know them by their fruit.

And, without them, this earth would be a very dark place, indeed.

[Molly]

The good Samaritan is a story of God's elect.  And, Jesus deliberately picked a group (the Samaritans) whom the Jews (who considered themselves God's chosen people) considered half breeds and less than human to hold up as an example of how God's elect should behave.





29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

--Luke 10



We are given the identity of those that passed by the man in trouble--the Jews, and priests themselves--and the identity of the one who helped the man--a Samaritan, but we are never given the identity of the man in trouble.

He is just "a certain man."  Moral of the story:  Jesus says, Love your neighbor as yourself, and your neighbor is everyone in the whole world.

[Mickiel]

/quote]

They can't help but make a public display of it.  They are a city set on a hill.

Martin Luther King did not go around saying, "I am God's elect."  He went around very publically doing the work of God on this earth.

There are thousands of them out there--you will know them by their fruit.

And, without them, this earth would be a very dark place, indeed.

Martin luther King was not called by God to be a firstfruit elected to his preisthood, but he was called by God to help bring black people in this nation out from under the feet of white people who thought God called them to lord it over blacks. Kings work was not to spread the gospel truth, he didnot know the gospel truth. His work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.

Peace.

[Molly]

His work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.

And, what exactly do you think "God's truth" is?



Galatians 4:7
So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.


Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.



ps  Everyone is oppressed as long as they are under the thumb of satan--it doesn't matter the color of their skin.

[reFORMer]

God's ultimate choice election is the Messiah Jesus.  There is no subsequent greater revelation other than the unfolding and outraying of Him.  Just as The Word written in Scripture is a revelation of God that to the carnal mind is a veil, hiding God in a mix of confusing symbolic and contradictory speech, so The Word made flesh in Jesus was (is) a veil.

Being brought into the temple for circumcision on the eighth day of his life as a little baby many passed by, even of the religious authorities, without seeing anything that registered on their minds different from any other baby.  But Anna and Simeon who were pursuing intimacy with God saw what he was.  As an adult many hated him without a cause.  They simply knew not.  Authorities of the very Scripture that told of him, was even authored by him, sought to kill him.  Except for when we are immature, like the earliest stage of pregnancy, it cannot truthfully be said that it will be obvious if we are chosen by God.

Even when some know something of God is going on, most still don't recognize it.  They thought Jesus was one of the prophets come back, whether resurrected or reincarnated.  These that were even somewhat friendly to him had difficulty not only in seeing Jesus as original, but who he was already revealed as in their Scripture.

People today who've been healed and their prophecies fulfilled yet consider the man God used to be suspect.  (Repeatedly it occurs) teach the word as they've never heard, so much so until they are amazed; yet, one of the first things out of their mouths in reaction is, "The devil can quote Scripture.  He knows it better than you and me."  C. S. Lewis, commenting on someone saying that if they ever saw a miracle, then they'd believe, said something to the effect of, "If an angel came down to their study, picked up the waste can and flew off with it, they'd find another explanation."

As far as whether one should be either self aware that God chose elected them and for what, or that they should make others aware of it or not, we again have Jesus for an example.  He certainly was aware of who he was, how he got here and why he came.  He did on numerous occasions say, even with explanation, exactly who he was.  He also was almost a braggart in his handling of those opposing him, flaunting the differences between himself and them (and it is very inappropriate to say he is not an example for us.)  He even made it clear God was his Father and their father was the devil, waving the red flag in front of the bull as the following couple of samples reveal,:

John 8:23-24, 52-55 . . .

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

One of the signs of life is awareness.  God is most aware.  Certainly something coming out of his awareness in conjunction with ourselves should result in our awareness of it.  If there is anything we can know, His choosing electing us would affect us from our earliest coming to be conscious here.  Being chosen elected before the disruption of the world opens up awareness beyond what is commonly defined as human.

While the many are called, those chosen elected may be more generally regarded as those who have the Holy Spirit, or specifically as apostles or even leaders in deception, for example.  Certain ones may appear that have been specified ahead of time in the transition into the next age like the three messengers in Revelation 14:6-12.  These may be individuals with planet wide "ministries."  Of course, there are other levels of interpretation of these highly symbolic passages.


---James M. Rohde

[Mickiel]

His work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.

And, what exactly do you think "God's truth" is?

King didnot free anyone from deception toward Gods truth, he help to establish more freedoms for a people who were engulfed by another people. It was a physical calling, not to be confused with a Spiritual calling. But I understand the tendency to denote Gods physical calling of someone, to be a Spiritual calling, when it was not. People who call themselves, can easily describe others as being called also. Its the nature of name it , claim it, all through and through.

As far as what I think Gods Truth is, its the ways and means of God himself. And if God himself has not shared those ways, they just are not going to be understood correctly. Truth is a conversation with God, and we just have not been privy to that, as we would like to think we have. Yet truth can be " Shed into our hearts", and I think that has occured, here a little and there a little, but NOT from direct conversation with God, only through temporary visatation from his insightful Spirit of truth.

Oh but some of us claim personal conversation with God, as we claim perminent holding of his Spirit.

Both of which I have been known to dispute, as I dispute that Martin luther King was called by God to be a firstfruit. He was not. He was made to be in a position to help his people, and thats all that was. He was not called for the purpose of the church, but he was called by God, that much is obvious.

Peace.

[Molly]

One of the signs of life is awareness.  God is most aware.

Amen.

Jesus says, take up your cross and follow me.  He says unless a man is willing to give up his life, he is not his disciple.

So what does he mean?  That we are supposed to grab a cross and run out into the middle of I-190 until someone runs us over?

No.  He means we are supposed to use the awareness that God has given us to resist the satan of this world.  That will put us in the direct path of ridicule, suppression, and death to bring God's truth to the world.  Satan does not intend to give up his power without a fight.  It is extremely dangerous to oppose satan.

Martin Luther King knew he was going to die.  The speech he gave the night before he was murdered makes that quite clear.  He says he knows he will not reach the promised land, but it doesn't matter because God has taken him to the mountaintop and shown it to him. "I have seen the promised land."  What matters is that we will all reach it someday--on earth as it is in heaven.