QuoteThe elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, are all those who choose Jesus as their Saviour in obedience to God's plan of redemption for the human race through Christ's death and resurrection (CP 1 Pe 1:3-12, 18-20 with Jn 3:14-17; Ro 3:21-26; Eph 1:3-13; 2:4-10; 3:1-12; 2 Th 2:13-14; Tit 1:1-3; 2:11-14; He 2:9-14). For a more detailed study on this subject see also comments on Mt 13:10-11, 20:16, Jn 3:36, 6:37, 12:37-40, Ac 13:48, 28:23-29, Ro 8:28-30, 9:7, 9:10-13, 9:14-18, 9:19-21, 11:2, Eph 1:3-6, 1 Jn 2:2.
I don't understand why there is an elect. To me it seems a bit unfair that "Only those drawn by the Father can come to Jesus"
So those that aren't been drawn end up in 'hell' for purifying; because no matter how hard they try they can't reach Jesus.
Little feedback please.
The elect are those elected to an office. We're elected to work with Christ in the delivery of the rest of mankind via 1Timothy chpt 2 prayers for all men, whether living or deceased. 1Timothy 2 does start out saying that prayers, supplications, intercessions, and givings of thanks should be unceasingly made for all men and for kings and those in authority so that the Church can have peace. Christ simply delegated some of the responsibility. I mean this reverently, oh so reverently, but when you're in a delegation situation such as with our having all authority and power in the earth via the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the whole New Testament, Bread, and Cup in our mouths at all times, it's still Jesus's tail with the Father if a single individual didn't come in on Father's time-table. It's God's game, God's rules, God's outcome. Hmmm... You're right. It's not fair. It's grace :Sparkletooth:
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
--Mat 7
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Mat 5:9
QuoteThe elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, are all those who choose Jesus as their Saviour in obedience to God's plan of redemption for the human race through Christ's death and resurrection
Those who are chosen by God, the elect, are those who chose God?
To be elected by God means He appointed, He chose! How can His choice be someone elses?
In God's foreknowledge He selected some, He elected some before the foundations of the world! How is this in anyway even reotley tied up in man's choice?
IMO- You are misreading some scripture....
John- "You did not choose me, I have choosen you!"
"I am the truth the life and the way, no come to the Father except through ME."
"Now come to the Son unless the Father first draw Him."
"And I, if I am lifted up, I will draw all me unto me."
Ya...some choice.
2 Corinthians 5
"He died for all therefore all have died, and He was raised on thier behalf."
Ephesians 2
"1And you were (A)dead in your trespasses and sins,
2in which you (B)formerly walked according to the course of (C)this world, according to (D)the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in (E)the sons of disobedience.
3Among them we too all (F)formerly lived in (G)the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were (H)by nature (I)children of wrath, (J)even as the rest.
4But God, being (K)rich in mercy, because of (L)His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were (M)dead in our transgressions, made us alive together [a]with Christ ((N)by grace you have been saved),
6and (O)raised us up with Him, and (P)seated us with Him in (Q)the heavenly places in (R)Christ Jesus,
7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing (S)riches of His grace in (T)kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8For (U)by grace you have been saved (V)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (W)the gift of God;
The elect is all people, all were dead in sin, all were made dad in christ, all were made alive in christ... through His foreknowledge, all people were elected to come into His glory through the sacrifice of the cross.
Quote from: Molly on July 28, 2008, 11:51:07 PM
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
--Mat 7
It's not of him who wills or of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. The narrow road that leads to life and the few that have found it are Jesus Christ alone, or one might include the prophets who foretold His coming. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" or in other words: the outer court, the inner court, and the Holy of Holies. And the only reason Jesus found life was to be the dispenser of it to those on the road leading to destruction. Some are on the road to destruction, and some are on the road to life. 100% true. But are the few finding life merely on a life boat floating away from a sinking Titanic, or are they being trained as Navy Seals to go back and rescue everybody else? Is God the Creator of duality or the reconciler of all things?
Well I must say I hold a different view of the Elect. God has drawn a line, and every human is in that line, the elect are just the first in line. And God does NOT need them to help him do anything, that belief is a human determination. The Elect are NOT called to help God teach this world anything, that Job is totally covered by the Holy Spirit. Its just a line, an order of nessecerary position, somebody has to be first in line.
The Line was drawn, or predestined human history, and each human selected, was selected because God wants this line to start somewhere. The calling of God is situational and historical. If and when he begins this line, those placed in it , are ONLY placed in it because they were born into that time and history, there is no other meaningful reason for God to select a human, outside of this. Unless you would like to gloryfy the human, and claim God called them because of their characther.
God built the characther, he didNOT select according to their self built esteem.
Oh but those who think themselves called or selected, will naturally think they were called because of THEIR ways. So they interpit this accordingly.
Peace.
Quote from: martincisneros on July 29, 2008, 12:42:09 AM
Quote from: Molly on July 28, 2008, 11:51:07 PM
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
--Mat 7
It's not of him who wills or of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. The narrow road that leads to life and the few that have found it are Jesus Christ alone, or one might include the prophets who foretold His coming. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" or in other words: the outer court, the inner court, and the Holy of Holies. And the only reason Jesus found life was to be the dispenser of it to those on the road leading to destruction. Some are on the road to destruction, and some are on the road to life. 100% true. But are the few finding life merely on a life boat floating away from a sinking Titanic, or are they being trained as Navy Seals to go back and rescue everybody else? Is God the Creator of duality or the reconciler of all things?
The few are finding the narrow road because they are searching for it.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.--Jeremiah 29:13
The few are meant to represent Christ to us, as we build the kingdom of God on this earth.
In mem. Mon. Oscar Romero
Quote from: Molly on July 29, 2008, 01:19:30 AM
The few are finding the narrow road because they are searching for it.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
--Jeremiah 29:13
But what is on that narrow road? Self preservation or the recovery of all? When we find Him, what are we finding? An Implacable Judge or the Saviour of all who saves by judging what's evil and removing it forever from His Creation? He's the destruction of evil, and the Saviour of all men,
especially of those that believe. Same word "especially" as when St. Paul's asking for his stuff to be brought to him,
especially his parchments so that he could devote much of the time in the days before his martyrdom to reading. He's the Saviour of all men, not exclusively of those that believe, but especially of those that believe. If He's the Saviour of all men, how much more is He going to save those that believe? But what is their belief? A self preservation belief? Or a belief in the Saviour of all men?? Our politicians, our doctors, our philosophers, our entertainers, and our grocery managers are incapable of removing the evil and suffering of the world, but there's One Who can, Who will, and Who has declared that He must for His own Name's sake. After all of these evils, we're promised in Ezekiel, those who've been His enemies during the eons are going to KNOW that He's YHVH. There's something so precious, tender, and holy in that, that His knowledge is promised even to His enemies; that His Son of righteousness will arise with healing in his talith even for His enemies. Jesus said that this was because He was perfect. Jesus said that we're to love our enemies and to do good to them
so that we'd be like our Father in heaven.
Dealing with the calling of God, pride in that calling leaves no room for understanding of what election really is. 1 Pet.2:7," This precious value, then is for you who believe. But for those who disbelieve, ( Or those NOT called) The stone which the builders rejected, THIS BECAME the very cornerstone." People didnot believe even Christ was called, THAT disbelief BECAME the cornerstone, or MOST important part OF the calling of God. The most important part of the calling of God, ARE those NOT called! THEY are the unseen importance of God, not those called.
If you elevate those who are first in line, then you miss the foundation of the building of Salvation. We are NOT called to teach the world, but to SUPPORT the world, and be a cornerstone of Salvation, not a glorification of our calling, or our position. And people who elevate themselves will stumble on this.
Heres a question I would ask of anybody who considers themselves called of God, or elected by him. And I doubt I will get an answer.
Why did God call you? Explain to me why you consider yourself elected?
I think we should be able to explain ourselves. Now, why did God elect you.
Explain that please.
Peace.
I'm not sure if it's so much pride as short-sightedness. I'm fully aware of my calling, election, anointing, etc., etc., but I stand beside St. Paul in saying that all that that does is offer me as proof of God's commitment to reclaiming all life everywhere. I'm just proof that He's after all of 'em. I'm curious on anyone's perspective on this one regarding 'election': 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (2Peter 1:10 KJV) Is it the "half truth" of Arminianism that to what degree the Holy Spirit is able to operate in your life is dependent upon a certain amount of the atmosphere that you create? Perhaps had I quoted the whole chapter, it would have helped to muddy the waters further, but most of the people who visit his website have a Bible. Every translation I've seen so far does seem to present a grocery list of things related to inheriting the promises. Some would interpret that as relating specifically to the promises related specifically to this life that aren't necessarily directly related to the Universal Restoration. But what do you think about this passage on making your calling and election sure?? Does it relate exclusively to this life rather than "the next?"
Quote from: martincisneros
link=topic=3050.msg30868#msg30868 date=1217295880
I'm not sure if it's so much pride as short-sightedness. I'm fully aware of my calling, election, anointing, etc., etc., but I stand beside St. Paul in saying that all that that does is offer me as proof of God's commitment to reclaiming all life everywhere. I'm just proof that He's after all of 'em. ?"
Since you are proof, then explain why I am to believe you are elected. Also explain to me why God called you. Why? You should at least know why, since you have claimed it as proof. What makes you aware of what God has done? Not withstanding only you, but any of you who claim this? You easily make a list of scripture to explain yourselves to others, will you then give me a list of reasons you know God has called you?
I am egar to hear this, and examine your proof of your calling. Am I to take your word for this, and that be good enough? Whats good enough for you, is not good enough for me. Prove all these things, or do you feel it needs to be viewed in another manner?
And I offer this to any of you, all of you who have taken the throne of being a firstfruit.
Because I see differently.
Peace.
Mickiel,
You bring up a very good point. I sometimes wonder about myself what I am doing at times. I sometimes get goose bumps as I read something, get some insight on a scripture, then in the next breath I can bark at my son because he did something annoying. I can contemplate the anger I have for someone that hurt my feelings and then see what a hypocrite I am when I look at the things I do, think, want and the carnal things, horrible things, I might entertain.
Some believe, because they say they believe and think they get some great insight from God that they are the elect. I wonder, do we really know who the elect is?
What makes someone the elect and has God given us the right to declare it for ourselves?
While I do not fear Hell, I am leary to boast of my spirituality, I may be confident in an argumental stance in a forum, but when I look in the mirror and read Jesus words about the heart........
I know the score.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 29, 2008, 05:41:12 AM
Mickiel,
You bring up a very good point. I sometimes wonder about myself what I am doing at times. I sometimes get goose bumps as I read something, get some insight on a scripture, then in the next breath I can bark at my son because he did something annoying. I can contemplate the anger I have for someone that hurt my feelings and then see what a hypocrite I am when I look at the things I do, think, want and the carnal things, horrible things, I might entertain.
Some believe, because they say they believe and think they get some great insight from God that they are the elect. I wonder, do we really know who the elect is?
What makes someone the elect and has God given us the right to declare it for ourselves?
While I do not fear Hell, I am leary to boast of my spirituality, I may be confident in an argumental stance in a forum, but when I look in the mirror and read Jesus words about the heart........
I know the score.
Well yes, its easy to make such assumption. By the power of self, we claim the things of God and will even consider our own words as holy. We then think about nothingelse other than how holy we are. Someone comes along and ask for evidence of the holiness, and we dismiss that and bend back into ourselves. I want to show you something, and use this place as example, since they feel themselves as examples of Gods Holiness. I can tell by their claims, that they depend on their claims, which taste good to them. Oh but God has a definte way of establishment, it is described in Jobs life,. but not in theirs.
Seeping with pride, they establish themselves, but their is no escape from the truth. God communicates in his way, but the way of man is deeply rooted in himself. The people who view themselves as elected, are deeply rooted in strong standards of self, thinking them ways of God. It does not bother me, they have their heels into themselves.
None of them can make an announcement outside of themselves, none will respond.
Because if they do, the truth will be made known.
The suggestion was made that the topics on board were dull, you think that Gods Spirit will relax and get dull?
No, no, the hearing of the people is dull. And Jude gets into that, which I will show.
Peace.
I know I'm elected in the same way that Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah, or anybody else would know. Difficult to get into specifics of my life without coming across to somebody as a pompous donkey's behind, which I'm not. But these threads never go away short of another board crash, and this is one of the boards that's open to anybody wandering by for a read. It's not hard, and neither is it some deep mystery. Jesus said that if you'd do what He told you, then you'd be His disciple indeed and you'd know the truth and the truth would make you free. I personally don't see how anybody could be a disciple without being elected. Perhaps in some strange Calvinistic doctrine somewhere that might be possible, but with the Bible that I read everyday I've not found the distinction within it's pages. The elect would have to have the Holy Spirit, according to all that St. Paul said regarding the seal of the Spirit and the covenant cut of circumcision that's not made with hands and that's not in the physical body. 1John says that we know that we know that we know certain things through the Holy Spirit that He's given to us. There's not a single thing that I could do or say to prove to another human being that I'm among the elect. I'm not worried about that. I'm only bothering to reply to this lest someone else that's elect, but young in the Lord were to ever stumble through what Mickiel has said here, as though there weren't any real way of knowing, when that's preposterous because of what the Scripture that I'd previously cited says from 2Peter chapter 1, verse 10. You can make your calling and election sure by keeping the commandment of love -- which is the bottomline of 2Peter 1. He said that you can be established in the present truth by doing these things. I can't conceive of someone being established in the truth of the Gospel that's not among the elect. Again, election isn't an opportunity for "I thank God that I am not as other men," which Jesus specifically denounced. It's so that you'd take your part alongside of Him in setting the rest of Creation free. And I'm daily active in fulfilling all of the particulars that our Lord has assigned to me personally where my portion of His commission is concerned. Salvation is by grace through faith, according to Ephesians 2. 2Peter 1 indicates that being elected is by being grounded in the Word and living out the lifestyle of Jesus Christ as a participant of the divine nature. That's why St. Paul could say in Romans 9-11 that not all are of Israel who are giving lip service to it, because they were rejecting Jesus and then later St. Paul's ministry in His Name. They were the elect by birth, but they were selling their birthright in his day to appease the Romans and their religious authorities. It wasn't convenient to be associated with Jesus Christ. So, St. Paul said that they stumbled at the stumbling stone, but not so as to fall beyond recovery. We shouldn't boast of our election, according to those 3 chapters in Romans because if God didn't spare them their falling away because of their obstinance, then neither will He allow us to stand without faith. We stand by faith in our election, therefore as both 2Peter 1 and Romans 9-11 would declare to us. Romans 10 says that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. So, I keep hearing and hearing in the realization that faith doesn't come from having heard. I don't want anything from a penny in my pocket to the health of my body if it's produced by anything other than the Word of God. If the Word won't produce it, I won't have it in my life. Plain and simple. I live by the Book. If the Book's unreliable then none of us have been found by God yet. Plain and simple, though we'd be of all men the most miserable 'cause it's the Book that assures us of the resurrection. Election's not hard. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. The moment it's not easy and light any more, then you're drowning in something else, either human, carnal reasoning or something else, religion or whatever.
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
--Romans 8:33
Well I certainly disagree that the elect would have to have Gods Spirit, I sure disagree with that. The elect are being built up in preperation of receiving Gods Spirit, and must spend an awful lot of time without it. And thats why they stumble, because they do not have it. The calling of God, is not the election of God, because many are called but few of them are elected. One could lead to the other, but its the presumption of this thing that confuses the many called. The called of God, assume to themselves that they are elected, because they know they are called. They are Kings before their time.
Now I can't push anyone off of that prideful throne, but God is able to. Why should I try to take back an election that someonelse has taken. People take elections all the time, and then try to rule as if they were elected. And they will fight to keep that throne.
This is what I see the people doing, and they are people of God. They are called. They are experiencing vistation from the Spirit, but they can't come to grips with the Spirit of truth about their calling. They claim election, because they are not able to discern Gods Spirit good enough to humble themselves and understand they do not have it constantly. Its the emperors robe all through and through. They believe they are clothed with Gods Spirit, but really they are naked.
Its so easy to see nakedness in peoples Spirit, and so like us to claim we are not naked. Who told you that you were naked? Telling someone that they are naked, is like telling someone they do not have Gods Spirit. They get offended.
I am not looking to cause offense, Martin thought the board was boring so HE looked to shake it up. If I wanted to do that same thing, it would be quite different, and people would be hurt.
I am not looking to hurt, only to share.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on July 29, 2008, 01:07:59 AM
Well I must say I hold a different view of the Elect. God has drawn a line, and every human is in that line, the elect are just the first in line. And God does NOT need them to help him do anything, that belief is a human determination. The Elect are NOT called to help God teach this world anything, that Job is totally covered by the Holy Spirit.
God indeed doesn't need any help with anything. But He can make a choice that He wants help.
Wasn't Jesus helping God? And the apostles helping Jesus and God?
Is the TentMaker site helping God? I think it is. But perhaps God 'manipulated' the mind of the site owner to start the site....
Quote
The Line was drawn, or predestined human history, and each human selected, was selected because God wants this line to start somewhere. The calling of God is situational and historical. If and when he begins this line, those placed in it , are ONLY placed in it because they were born into that time and history,
There where many people born before before the Gospel came available world wide. If you haven't heard of the Gospel you can be elected either is my guess.
WhiteWings, the newbie, isn't sure about the following but everyone that's not in the first wave of elect is getting an 'age of correction in hell'
It almost sounds like God draws a few number out of his hat full of lottery tickets; and who doesn't get elect is gets 'hell'.
Can things really be that random?
BTW are the elect the 144,000 mentioned in the Bible?
It's easier and clearer to quit using the transliterated word "elect" from (if I remember) Greek electoi. It means "chosen." Too many doctrines of men surround the meaning of the "elect."
Scripture says, "Many are called, but few are chosen." The call goes out to all, but those God chose are a Royal Priesthood, endued with power from on high (Elyon) by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. That function was what Adam abandoned. "And the LORD God called (made a crackling [static?!] noise) unto Adam, and said unto him," Where art thou?" (Gen 3:9) He had failed to dress and keep the garden and now was AWOL. Men have their agendas to recover Paradise; but, Christ has already accomplished that Restoration or Salvation and more. By the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit He has placed Paradise in His chosen to expand it into the rest of creation. They are functioning as appointed to deliver others hiding from guilt and lost from wrong teachings to come into line with God's plan. Those not heeding the call are working on other plans. Because many who've begun to experience salvation by the Holy Spirit are immature, influenced by handed down error and caught in laying the foundation again and again (with religious media) they have not realized what they are "saved" for and allowed usurpers striving to bring about false utopias to occupy the place of dominion that God appointed for His chosen.
Romans 8: 6-11:
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
I think everyone is "elect".
Quote from: sparrow on August 03, 2008, 08:19:49 AM
I think everyone is "elect".
The elect of God are not chosen by their determination, but Gods. Now if you ask any person who thinks they are called , why God called them, what can they say? They may think about it, but thats all they can really relate to. I think its over relation on their part, not Gods. People who feel themselves elected are making a " Self determined claim", and thats how I view that. I think any person truly elected by God would NEVER claim it, and thats how I personally see it. Not the end time elected. They will not have to, the Holy Spirit will do it for them. The claim will be prepared for them, not by them.
God will determine it.
Peace.
Quote from: martincisneros on July 29, 2008, 06:48:14 AM
I know I'm elected in the same way that Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah, or anybody else would know.
But doesn't the Bible state that Christ says to many Christians that thought 'they made it' "Go away I never have known you!"
Why can't that 'you' mean you Martin? How can you know. Many feel also elected by satan, allah, the mashmellowman etc But are they right.....?
Elected, selected, called, chosen, picked, apointed, etc, etc
For me that's just playing word games that don't answer my questions.
Not only in this thread but also in other threads. And to be honest, right now, it shows me clashing 'story lines' in the Bible.
I'll try to summarize that:
- I'm supposed to follow the 10 commandments (among other rules)
- But I can't because I'm a sinner.
- I only can when the Holy Spirit comes into me (or whatever the correct term is)
- So I start searching for Jesus/The Spirit/God/Bible.
- But I can't because God is supposed to call me;
- because I have no free will to search.
- So someone that breaks all the rules 100x a day in the most barbaric way just can just play the "no fee will" card as an excuse.
When I add up all the above I get:
"100% of humanity deserve age-during correction; but God picked out 2% so they can avoid that terrible correction."
or
"I, God, who created you as a sinning slave without a free will am going to punish you because you acted the way I designed you to"
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 03, 2008, 11:27:36 AM
Quote from: martincisneros on July 29, 2008, 06:48:14 AM
I know I'm elected in the same way that Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah, or anybody else would know.
But doesn't the Bible state that Christ says to many Christians that thought 'they made it' "Go away I never have known you!"
Why can't that 'you' mean you Martin? How can you know. Many feel also elected by satan, allah, the mashmellowman etc But are they right.....?
Again, it does not matter who you ask, its really how they answer that is the determining factor. Those bold enough to answer, are bold enough to claim the calling. If God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.
Its like someone asking me am I a black man. If the obvious color of my skin does not convince them, why should I waste time in trying to? I don't care who does not accept that I am a black man. I know that I am, and its " Obvious" that I am. The election of God is MORE Obvious than this. EVERYTHING about the elected one will SHOW Gods election, it will speak for itself. Conversely, we have problems with the oppisite, we refuse to see the obvious signs that we ARE NOT elected, because the pride in the calling, is stronger than the humility of it.
Peace.
But why may people not say they are called.
By having made over 600 post on this board you also adverstise you are a Christian.
Who cares? Why not keep it a secret?
A large part of your life is communicating with people. Don't you ever talk to the people in your neigeborhood besides "Hey, I'm black and that's all you need to know about me."
The fact that your are black is so obvious noone would argue with that fact. But many other things are not so obvious.
The fact that you stated you are black is strickly speaking of no use on this board. It would be on a KKK forum.
So I think saying you are called is relavant on a board like this. But because personally I feel absolutely zero of a link with God and because the quoted verse, I asked what I asked Martin(and others who feel called)
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 03, 2008, 07:31:44 PM
But why may people not say they are called.
By having made over 600 post on this board you also adverstise you are a Christian.
Who cares? Why not keep it a secret?
A large part of your life is communicating with people. Don't you ever talk to the people in your neigeborhood besides "Hey, I'm black and that's all you need to know about me."
The fact that your are black is so obvious noone would argue with that fact. But many other things are not so obvious.
The fact that you stated you are black is strickly speaking of no use on this board. It would be on a KKK forum.
So I think saying you are called is relavant on a board like this. But because personally I feel absolutely zero of a link with God and because the quoted verse, I asked what I asked Martin(and others who feel called)
Well I am not christian, and have never stated as such. And I think stateing I am black, is more relevant on this board than to state I am called. I know I am black, but I do not know I am called. I couldcareless about how relevant you think me being black is relevant to this board, and I do not view being called as relevant to this board. Our relevance comes from God, not from boards. Our meaning comes from God, not our race. But what many who claim the calling of God have done, is to create a new race of elected people, they have done so within their own minds, and then seek to label these boards as places of Gods people.
And this is how churchs are started. People here are communicating that they are elected of God, I don't share in that communication, I only share my own views. As far as communicating with my neighborhood, I counsel prisoners for the federal board of prisioners every day, some of whom I grew up with in Detroit. Thats my job, my employment.
And its my Joy.
Peace.
Okay...I've got a brief comment about "election." But first, I have 2 pressing matters:
1--I'm still waiting to see what Dallas is going to do with his "alphabet soup" at the beginning of this thread....
2-- and I MUST know what the little walking white wings wabbit means ?
Joyce :happygrin:
QuoteWell I am not christian, and have never stated as such. And I think stateing I am black, is more relevant on this board than to state I am called. I know I am black, but I do not know I am called. I couldcareless about how relevant you think me being black is relevant to this board, and I do not view being called as relevant to this board.
If you want to see God's elect, take a look at Martin Luther King, Jr.--called, chosen, prophet of God, and God's elect. Not all of God's elect are that famous, but all look just like him, IMO.
QuoteIf God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.
It is not a private thing.
God's elect are the light of the world--just like Jesus was, --following in the footsteps of Jesus.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.Christ was the light of the world, and so are his elect.
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.The elect are the city on the hill, the light of the world.
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Quote from: Molly on August 03, 2008, 09:08:55 PM
QuoteIf God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.
It is not a private thing.
It most defintely is a private thing to God, not to be made a public thing of, as many are doing now. The reason God elected them is private, and they were not elected to make a public display of it.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on August 03, 2008, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 03, 2008, 09:08:55 PM
QuoteIf God called me, why should I announce it to the world, or convince others of the calling. It falls to God to convince me of his calling, it will be a personal annointing. A light given, and that light will shine for itself.
It is not a private thing.
It most defintely is a private thing to God, not to be made a public thing of, as many are doing now. The reason God elected them is private, and they were not elected to make a public display of it.
Peace.
They can't help but make a public display of it. They are a city set on a hill.
Martin Luther King did not go around saying, "I am God's elect." He went around very publically doing the work of God on this earth.
There are thousands of them out there--you will know them by their fruit.
And, without them, this earth would be a very dark place, indeed.
The good Samaritan is a story of God's elect. And, Jesus deliberately picked a group (the Samaritans) whom the Jews (who considered themselves God's chosen people) considered half breeds and less than human to hold up as an example of how God's elect should behave.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
--Luke 10
We are given the identity of those that passed by the man in trouble--the Jews, and priests themselves--and the identity of the one who helped the man--a Samaritan, but we are never given the identity of the man in trouble.
He is just "a certain man." Moral of the story: Jesus says, Love your neighbor as yourself, and your neighbor is everyone in the whole world.
Quote from: Molly
/quote]
They can't help but make a public display of it. They are a city set on a hill.
Martin Luther King did not go around saying, "I am God's elect." He went around very publically doing the work of God on this earth.
There are thousands of them out there--you will know them by their fruit.
And, without them, this earth would be a very dark place, indeed.
Martin luther King was not called by God to be a firstfruit elected to his preisthood, but he was called by God to help bring black people in this nation out from under the feet of white people who thought God called them to lord it over blacks. Kings work was not to spread the gospel truth, he didnot know the gospel truth. His work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.
Peace.
QuoteHis work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.
And, what exactly do you think "God's truth" is?
Galatians 4:7
So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
ps Everyone is oppressed as long as they are under the thumb of satan--it doesn't matter the color of their skin.
God's ultimate choice election is the Messiah Jesus. There is no subsequent greater revelation other than the unfolding and outraying of Him. Just as The Word written in Scripture is a revelation of God that to the carnal mind is a veil, hiding God in a mix of confusing symbolic and contradictory speech, so The Word made flesh in Jesus was (is) a veil.
Being brought into the temple for circumcision on the eighth day of his life as a little baby many passed by, even of the religious authorities, without seeing anything that registered on their minds different from any other baby. But Anna and Simeon who were pursuing intimacy with God saw what he was. As an adult many hated him without a cause. They simply knew not. Authorities of the very Scripture that told of him, was even authored by him, sought to kill him. Except for when we are immature, like the earliest stage of pregnancy, it cannot truthfully be said that it will be obvious if we are chosen by God.
Even when some know something of God is going on, most still don't recognize it. They thought Jesus was one of the prophets come back, whether resurrected or reincarnated. These that were even somewhat friendly to him had difficulty not only in seeing Jesus as original, but who he was already revealed as in their Scripture.
People today who've been healed and their prophecies fulfilled yet consider the man God used to be suspect. (Repeatedly it occurs) teach the word as they've never heard, so much so until they are amazed; yet, one of the first things out of their mouths in reaction is, "The devil can quote Scripture. He knows it better than you and me." C. S. Lewis, commenting on someone saying that if they ever saw a miracle, then they'd believe, said something to the effect of, "If an angel came down to their study, picked up the waste can and flew off with it, they'd find another explanation."
As far as whether one should be either self aware that God chose elected them and for what, or that they should make others aware of it or not, we again have Jesus for an example. He certainly was aware of who he was, how he got here and why he came. He did on numerous occasions say, even with explanation, exactly who he was. He also was almost a braggart in his handling of those opposing him, flaunting the differences between himself and them (and it is very inappropriate to say he is not an example for us.) He even made it clear God was his Father and their father was the devil, waving the red flag in front of the bull as the following couple of samples reveal,:
John 8:23-24, 52-55 . . .
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
One of the signs of life is awareness. God is most aware. Certainly something coming out of his awareness in conjunction with ourselves should result in our awareness of it. If there is anything we can know, His choosing electing us would affect us from our earliest coming to be conscious here. Being chosen elected before the disruption of the world opens up awareness beyond what is commonly defined as human.
While the many are called, those chosen elected may be more generally regarded as those who have the Holy Spirit, or specifically as apostles or even leaders in deception, for example. Certain ones may appear that have been specified ahead of time in the transition into the next age like the three messengers in Revelation 14:6-12. These may be individuals with planet wide "ministries." Of course, there are other levels of interpretation of these highly symbolic passages.
---James M. Rohde
Quote from: Molly on August 03, 2008, 10:07:15 PM
QuoteHis work was to help bring a people out of oppression, not to be confused with Gods dispensation of his truth.
And, what exactly do you think "God's truth" is?
King didnot free anyone from deception toward Gods truth, he help to establish more freedoms for a people who were engulfed by another people. It was a physical calling, not to be confused with a Spiritual calling. But I understand the tendency to denote Gods physical calling of someone, to be a Spiritual calling, when it was not. People who call themselves, can easily describe others as being called also. Its the nature of name it , claim it, all through and through.
As far as what I think Gods Truth is, its the ways and means of God himself. And if God himself has not shared those ways, they just are not going to be understood correctly. Truth is a conversation with God, and we just have not been privy to that, as we would like to think we have. Yet truth can be " Shed into our hearts", and I think that has occured, here a little and there a little, but NOT from direct conversation with God, only through temporary visatation from his insightful Spirit of truth.
Oh but some of us claim personal conversation with God, as we claim perminent holding of his Spirit.
Both of which I have been known to dispute, as I dispute that Martin luther King was called by God to be a firstfruit. He was not. He was made to be in a position to help his people, and thats all that was. He was not called for the purpose of the church, but he was called by God, that much is obvious.
Peace.
QuoteOne of the signs of life is awareness. God is most aware.
Amen.
Jesus says, take up your cross and follow me. He says unless a man is willing to give up his life, he is not his disciple.
So what does he mean? That we are supposed to grab a cross and run out into the middle of I-190 until someone runs us over?
No. He means we are supposed to use the awareness that God has given us to resist the satan of this world. That will put us in the direct path of ridicule, suppression, and death to bring God's truth to the world. Satan does not intend to give up his power without a fight. It is extremely dangerous to oppose satan.
Martin Luther King knew he was going to die. The speech he gave the night before he was murdered makes that quite clear. He says he knows he will not reach the promised land, but it doesn't matter because God has taken him to the mountaintop and shown it to him. "I have seen the promised land." What matters is that we will all reach it someday--
on earth as it is in heaven.