God, who creates evil

[Molly]

7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
       do not fret when men succeed in their ways,
       when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
       do not fret—it leads only to evil.

9 For evil men will be cut off,
       but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
       though you look for them, they will not be found.

11 But the meek will inherit the land
       and enjoy great peace.

12 The wicked plot against the righteous
       and gnash their teeth at them;

13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
       for he knows their day is coming.

14 The wicked draw the sword
       and bend the bow
       to bring down the poor and needy,
       to slay those whose ways are upright.

15 But their swords will pierce their own hearts,
       and their bows will be broken.

16 Better the little that the righteous have
       than the wealth of many wicked;

17 for the power of the wicked will be broken,
       but the LORD upholds the righteous.

18 The days of the blameless are known to the LORD,
       and their inheritance will endure forever.

19 In times of disaster they will not wither;
       in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.

20 But the wicked will perish:
       The LORD's enemies will be like the beauty of the fields,
       they will vanish—vanish like smoke.

21 The wicked borrow and do not repay,
       but the righteous give generously;

22 those the LORD blesses will inherit the land,
       but those he curses will be cut off.

23 If the LORD delights in a man's way,
       he makes his steps firm;

24 though he stumble, he will not fall,
       for the LORD upholds him with his hand.

25 I was young and now I am old,
       yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken
       or their children begging bread.

26 They are always generous and lend freely;
       their children will be blessed.

27 Turn from evil and do good;
       then you will dwell in the land forever.

28 For the LORD loves the just
       and will not forsake his faithful ones.
       They will be protected forever,
       but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;

29 the righteous will inherit the land
       and dwell in it forever.

--Psa 37


Psalm 10:15
Break the arm of the wicked and evil man; call him to account for his wickedness that would not be found out.

[Molly]

Sounds like God experiencing evil along with us.

I believe this to be true....

IMHO experiencing evil means experiencing separation from God.

What does this mean to you......God experiencing separation from God??

To me it sounds like the encounter of the Father and Son at the cross.

And Adam and the LORD God in the garden.



Where are you?

--Genesis 3


..the lamb slain from the foundation of the world..

--Rev 13

[Michele]

Perfect scriptures Molly!

Picture what it might look like to see God separating from God.......probably looks a lot like mitosis....

[bobf]

I say this kind and gently, that is something you need to get over.

No problem, Craig.  But I don't see why I should ignore something that hampers communication.

Here is the universal, theological & philosophical, definition of 'Free-will' even among those who do not believe there is a God.

"Free Will" is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives. -Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

That may be the official definition, but that's not how ~50% of the people I encounter use the term.  My compaint is not about what is true our not true.  My compaint is that the term as used in the real world causes miscommunication.

Here is one definition I found on the web.

2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

Our choices are not unconstrained by divine will in the sense that:
1. God applies pressure to cause us to change our choices.
2. God alters our wills which in turn alters our choices.

It doesn't matter what others say, what matters is what is true.

It matters when I'm trying to communicate with someone.  I have to know what they mean by 'free will' not what the true definition is.

It would be like in mathematics if SQR(x) is officially defined as the square-root of X, but then somewhere along the line people started using SQR(x) to mean X squared.  Once that happens, it doesnt matter what the official definition is.  If I want to get the right answer I have to ask what they means by SQR(x).

I have found Free-will if the will is free, is only free within the habitations and boundaries God set up. We are not all powerful and we are not all knowing, adding the adjective 'free' does not make us all powerful and all knowing. Free-will just means we have the ability to make a choice when one is presented, that is called a freedom of will, not a will that is free outside influence or it's environment or it's limitations.

I realize 'free' in front of 'will' does not make us all powerful or all knowing.  But I've never seen anyone who thinks that.  What I have seen is that people think the 'free' in front of 'will' means our wills off-limits to God.

Lately, instead of bothering over the term 'free will' I just ask for a definition up front.  But often that doesn't work either.  Often I get a definition like 'ability to choose' that I agree with, the later in the discussion they'll object to God doing such and such as a violation of free will, when such and such does not remove the ability to choose.

[Molly]

Perfect scriptures Molly!

Picture what it might look like to see God separating from God.......probably looks a lot like mitosis....

So that one can become two?   And, then the two become one again.



So they are no longer two, but one.

--Mark 10

[bobf]

I'm beginning to think you are right.  Somehow, people don't seem to be able to see evil when they are doing it themselves.  It's like they have no empathy at all.  Compassion and empathy seems to be a Christ like characteristic that is acquired by evil being done to you.

People seem to be, left to their own devices, morally blind, without remorse or compassion.

Yes, except sometimes, our own evil actions can open our eyes too.  If we act without compassion or empathy toward others, that will often come back to bite us in disasterous ways, and that can open our eyes too.

- Christ endured the evil of others.
- The prodigal son endured the fruits of his own evil and that woke him up.

[Michele]

Perfect scriptures Molly!

Picture what it might look like to see God separating from God.......probably looks a lot like mitosis....

So that one can become two?   And, then the two become one again.



So they are no longer two, but one.

--Mark 10

So what is the purpose of all this separating and reuniting?  Could it be for us to experience love.....over and over again?

Remember the old saying -- Distance makes the heart grow fonder?

How true!

[Molly]

Could be.  You mean to fill the universe with God's love?


Genesis 15:5
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.


Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.  He saith not, And to seeds, as to many; but as of one, And, to thy seed, which is Christ.

--Galatians 3

[Michele]

You mean to fill the universe with God's love?

Yes!


The One in many, and the many in One. :HeartThrob: