They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

[Paul Hazelwood]

We have our instructions on how to go about seeing it. First ask, as Jesus said, and then go to His instructions for how to find.

Luke 11:9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

The main thing is to see the orderly fashion in which scripture harmonizes.
Jesus is more telling us how things work.

How are we supposed to seek when it is written....

Ro 3:11 Not one is understanding. Not one is seeking out God.



How then is this not a contradiction?  Simple, it is seeing the "method" that God uses while allowing us to see the relative perspective.   It appears that WE are the ones seeking because God works in us "individually".

How do I know this Method? 

Phl 2:13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.


And just what would Gods Delight be?   

1Timothy 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


That is the Method and who is in control of this method, of you, of any being created?

Jn 6:44 No one can come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be drawing him. And I shall be raising him in the last day.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT...  :laughing7:

Willi, I don't give spiels, I use scriptures in as orderly a fashion as possible for me,  to make my arguments for what I believe is truth. Spiels are philosophies. Undefendable scripturally.

Didn't mean to offend you with that word, maybe you don't understand its meaning... it does not mean "philosphies"... it is a delivery which is detailed, and/or "talkative"... [volubly]

MERRIAM WEBSTER:

Main Entry: spiel 
Pronunciation: \ˈspēl\
Function: verb
Etymology: German spielen to play, from Old High German spilōn; akin to Old English spilian to revel
Date: 1870
intransitive verb
1 : to play music
2 : to talk volubly or extravagantly
transitive verb
: to utter, express, or describe volubly or extravagantly
— spiel·er  \ˈspē-lər\ noun

Definition #2 describes both of us Dusty... and does not indicate that a "SPIEL" is an indefenseable Biblical position OR philosophy...  :dontknow:


peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT...  :happy3:

I will try to give what I believe the thousand years are for next post. It is, as far as I am concerned , lucid, clear in purpose, and just. Fair to all.

WELL?  :clock:  Time's a-wastin'!   :declare:

Give us some of that "WONDERFUL" bro!  :bgdance:

:dontknow:   :gamer: :surrender:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

[willieH]

willieH: Hello to all... :hithere:

As of this date, ...Peacetroll hasn't noted "his (wonderful) take" on what this "Thousand" year period actually IS, but I shall give you mine...  :Sparkletooth:  (though you may not necessarily find it "wonderful"  :blush:)

You are welcome to see it as you will...  :cloud9:

THIS explanation shall take 2 PARTS to complete (Foundation and Explanation) ...

PART ONE:

FOUNDATION...

First... the word MILLENIUM is NOT a Biblical term, and so from a Biblical perspective, it finds itself as an "addition" to it...  If anything, it is a THEOLOGICAL term which was invented by man...

Don't know about you, but whenever I encounter a term relating to something "Biblical", which is not found in the Bible, I question it immediately...

Second... There has recently been quite a lot of discussion as to WHAT the "Word of God" actually is, so I must first, before going any further note my position in observing where the BIBLE stands in proximity to the "Word of God"...

The "Bible" is found in many varying translations into English, and with those variables, the version which best make ones "Theological point", is the one utilized to do so...  :dontknow:

As for me, the KJV is pretty much the exclusive version I use.  Why? 

Consistency in Biblical perspective for one (don't have to retrace which version I use or used to make my observation)... also... Though I align myself with the growing number which agrees that MANY ERRORS lie within it... I find that the KJV is the easiest version TO CORRECT... or trace/locate those errors...

Other versions do not have the available particular WORD definitions which were translated to English (except the [CLT/YLT] Literal Translations - which I will use, from time to time BECAUSE they are translated LITERALLY from Greek and Hebrew terms as is done in the KJV)

All that said... I observe that the "MILLENIUM", along with it's many sister teachings found in Christianity - Trinity, Rapture, Separation from GOD, Free Will, Sinner's Prayer, etc... find their "theologically" attached "terminology" ABSENT from the "Bible"...

So, as it (millenium) has NO Biblical - Greek or Hebrew defintion, first I shall note its English dictionary definition...

millennium... 
   
Main Entry: mil·len·ni·um 
Pronunciation: \mə-ˈle-nē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural mil·len·nia  \-nē-ə\ or mil·len·niums
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin mille thousand + New Latin -ennium (as in biennium)
Date: circa 1638
1 a: the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 during which holiness is to prevail and Christ is to reign on earth b: a period of great happiness or human perfection
2 a: a period of 1000 years; especially : one reckoned from the beginning of the Christian era <at the start of the third millennium> b: a 1000th anniversary or its celebration

[Note that this terminology (Millennium) came into existence at or around 1638... which means that it's available pertinence (if any) is less than 400 years, of the 2000 years Revelation has been available to man.]

There is more than ONE reference in the "bible" to a 1000 "years", as it relates to GOD... which is SYMBOLICALLY mentioned in Rev 20:1-15

In this passage, we also find the MYSTERIOUS and SYMBOLIC "Lake of Fire" and questions inevitably arise as to WHAT this entity is as well...   :mshock:

In the following post, I hope to define for you, ...BOTH the "1000 years" and the "Lake of Fire", as well as their relationship to each other...  :thumbsup:

Don't want you to get too wearied by the length, which is INDEED necessary!  :heat:

Again, I welcome you to reject what I say, as you should choose...  :winkgrin:

We're all searching... hope this endeavor helps your search...   :giveheart:

pEace...
...willieH  :hihat:

[willieH]

willieH: Hello to all... :hithere:

PART TWO:

EXPLANATION...

I would like to first "zero in" on a portion of the previously noted ENGLISH DICTIONARY definition of "millennium", which I believe is VERY MISLEADING and an ADDITION (enlarged below) to what the "Bible" actually NOTES... (Let's see if you caught this as you read it in my previous post)...

millennium... 
   
Main Entry: mil·len·ni·um 
Pronunciation: \mə-ˈle-nē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural mil·len·nia  \-nē-ə\ or mil·len·niums
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin mille thousand + New Latin -ennium (as in biennium)
Date: circa 1638
1 a: the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 during which holiness is to prevail and Christ is to reign on earth b: a period of great happiness or human perfection

This portion of definition is NOT NOTED in the "bible"... there is no indication that this period of CHRIST's "reign" to be a period of "GREAT HAPPINESS", nor "HUMAN PERFECTION"

The Bible simply says:

(Rev 20:4) ...they LIVED and REIGNED with CHRIST a thousand years... ...and,

(Rev 20:6) ...blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be PRIESTS of God and of CHRIST, and shall REIGN with Him a thousand years.

No mention of "PERFECTION", nor of "GREAT HAPPINESS"... so the ENGLISH DICTIONARY defintion above, has ADDED these assumptions to what the "Bible" actually notes...  :dontknow: (btw... WHO are they "REIGN-ING" ...over?  Who are they PRIESTS ...to?  What exactly IS a ...PRIEST?  :JCThink:  Seems to me that others are required by association, in the using of these terms.  :dontknow:)

1000 Years:

First consideration... the "1000" year period is written in a book of SYMBOLS... which makes the "1000" a SYMBOLIC number... (not literally a period of TIME which is 1000 years in duration)

Second consideration... the DAY of YHVH (Y'HoVaH) is where ALL the GENERATIONS of the HISTORY of MAN are found... (Gen 2:4) ...which "DAY" is NOW...

Third consideration... A "DAY" with YHVH is "AS" (like) a THOUSAND "YEARS"... but NOT, ...IS a THOUSAND "YEARS"...

In other words, TIME is irrelevant to the ETERNAL God who views its END from its BEGINNING... but the term "1000 years" IS relevant when considering SPIRITUAL REVELATION... for terms which relate to Him SYMBOLICALLY fall into the "AS" or a "SYMBOLIC / PARABOLIC" form...

Not to be LITERALLY understood... These terms are IMAGES of what actually is said...

The SPIRITUAL reality is ALIVE and PERFECTLY multi-dimensional... the NATURAL is DEAD, and FLAT, and when the SPIRITUAL is percieved incorrectly and incompletely it is observed as follows:

A PAINTING of the MEADOW (natural) is LITERALLY percieved to be the ACTUAL MEADOW (spiritual) which is PAINTED... (hope I'm not going to fast or becoming confusing... its hard to put into words, and admittedly I have not mastered the ability!  :mblush:)

Those who reign WITH CHRIST, do so in the DAY of YHVH... which is IS --- AS a thousand years, not IS a thousand years...

The "DAY" of the LORD is ...NOW! ...NOW is the JUDGMENT of this world, ...NOW is the "day" of Salvation... NOW is the prince of this world CAST OUT... NOW is the ACCEPTED TIME...

There is no LITERAL "1000" year period as peacetroll observes...  The SYMBOLISM for this "1000" years is NOW... ALL the GENERATIONS of MAN have been spent in "NOW"...

ALL LIFE takes place in NOW... not in the past, not in the future... NOW...

(Rev 20:2) "satan" is BOUND in the "DAY (thousand years) of YHVH... within the lives of those who are IN CHRIST... and who are PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION (which are FEW)... which REIGN, takes place IN THIS LIFETIME...

Those who are PART of the First Resurrection were CHOSEN to BE part of it... before the FOUNDATION of the WORLD... (Eph 2:10) 

"TIME" (future or past) does not limit or inhibit the REIGN of CHRIST within them, as it is a REIGN which is done within the DAY of YHVH... which is NOW...

The "DAY" of YHVH is NOW... and that "DAY" is amidst the life of each one IN CHRIST... but is found OUTSIDE (AFTER) the "DAY" in the MANY which is as the SAND of the SEA (Rev 20:8)

Those who are decieved (unable to see or behold CHRIST)... are found OUTSIDE or AFTER the DAY of YHVH... 

This may be hard to grasp... but here goes:

The word translated AFTER in Rev 20:3 is META... which in its definition proposes: amid or accompaniement... also: often used in composition in substancially the SAME relations of PARTICIPATION and PROXIMITY and transfer or SEQUENCE...

I see this passage as noting that DURING not AFTER the "DAY" of YHVH [NOW]... is the Adversary (satan) ...loosed a little season [TIME]... and "out of "it's prison" to deceive the nations which are in the 4 quarters (everywhere) of the earth (men) which are are numbered as the SAND of the SEA... (these being OUTSIDE those IN CHRIST)

Again... this is quite hard to put into words, please forgive my clumsiness...  :mblush:

LAKE OF FIRE...

What is this entity?  Most theologians and especially the VICTIMS of their teachings, subscribe to this being a PLACE of ETERNAL Torment...

I believe it to be NOW... CHRIST counseled us to buy (obtain) GOLD from Him which was TRIED in FIRE (Rev 3:18)... the TRIALS of CHRIST took place in the Human Form and Life that He lived IN TIME...

1. The DEVIL was CAST into this entity (LOF) (Rev 20:10)
2. DEATH and HELL (grave/Hades) were also CAST into this entity (Rev 20:14)
3. Whosoever was not written in the "book of LIFE" was also CAST into this entity (Rev 20:15)

THREE questions with the SAME ANSWER:

1. WHO has the DEVIL (satan) decieved?  ALL have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

2. HOW many of these found DEATH and the GRAVE?  ALL who have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

3. WHO have not been written in the "book of LIFE"?  ALL who have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

Please PRAY before reading this conclusion dear ones...  :Pray:

The "LAKE of FIRE", and the "1000 years" mentioned in the REVELATION (Revealing of JESUS CHRIST) are the DAY (Spiritual) of YHVH...

What is the NEW NAME? (Rev Rev 2:17 / 3:12)

The NEW NAME is  CHRIST...

ALL those IN CHRIST, are no longer "named" OUTSIDE CHRIST... they are MEMBERS of the BODY of CHRIST... which makes their NAME... CHRIST...

Don't know about you friends, but... My MEMBERS,  ... my "arms", "legs", "toenails" and HEAD... are ALL of and are RECOGNIZED, as having the SAME NAME...  :dontknow:

He that hath an EAR, let him hear what the SPIRIT saith unto the churches...  :icon_king:

pEace...
...willieH  :hihat:

[martincisneros]

Hi WillieH,

I'll definitely be re-reading these two last posts of yours at least a couple more times over the next day or two (maybe more).  This builds on the idea of "NOW" that you shared in response to the thread that I'd started on John 12:31-33 that I've been thinking about ever since.  This seems to add some pieces of the puzzle that you didn't share at that time.  Although I'll tend to slam the KJV with the same regularity as "the other Martin," at least with where I'm coming from it's more of an attack on the KJV-only religion that says that if the KJV was good enough for the Apostle Paul, then it's good enough for them!  The KJV will continue in it's spotlight for as long as the older 18th and 19th century UR books that are tremendous study aides on the KJV -- the KJV will endure for as long as those books haven't been "edited for today's reader" with observations based upon other translations.  And of all of the translations, as far as I know, it has the most study aides developed for it like Wigram's Concordance and Young's Concordance, the horribly less reliable newer editions of Strong's and the theologically biased W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words.  These are but a few of dozens of study aides that are published with the assumption that you're going to be using the KJV for your studies.  I hope that other Universalists will soften their tone with regards to the KJV as I'm trying to, simply from the practicality that it's the translation in the most homes and the easiest study aides to acquire are based on the KJV.  Doesn't make it a fabulous translation by any means, but after a few things have been pointed out about it and the theological assumptions that went into it, then the easier the cases for ET and annihilationism fall apart over a Wigrams Concordance, Young's, Strong's, and Vine's being objectively considered, compared, and thought through with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.  You can judiciously find the truth even in the KJV if you maintain objectivity and dig through every study resource provided for the KJV.  That's an important point that I think that very few Universalists ever think through and/or mention to others. 

Yes, it's got thousands of mistranslations when you take into account the couple of handfuls of words that are mistranslated and how often they're used throughout the Bible.  But like Mark Twain said about the Bible that it wasn't the parts that he didn't understand that bothered him, but the parts that he did understand that bothered him -- very few of the promises of the Universal Restoration are blacked out as secret government document material by the translators.  There's easily over 250 passages teaching the Universal Restoration that are fairly clear in their implication in the KJV, even if one needs to work through ideas of destruction, punishment, and themes of duration in the Scriptures. 

Either the promises or the judgments need to be qualified in the translation and in one's understanding from one's own studies.  You'll either qualify the promises or the judgments based upon your own understanding of Father's heart, the unity of His purposes, the strength and character of His will, what Christ called perfection, etc.  Some say that the promises must be qualified based upon the eternal surety of the judgments, and you've got to live with that image of God and the ramifications of that upon God's faithfulness towards you, yourself.  Others believe that the promises stand forever, so therefore the answer to the mystery is in reconciling the judgments with the character of God and the usage of the Hebrew and Greek back when the Bible was being written.  But once this issue is pointed out to you, you can no longer hide behind the innocence of former days when you just read through the KJV and didn't see the conflict and tension that needed to be that demanded to be resolved conclusively through your own studies, prayers, and understanding of the Christ within you and what His love would compel you towards.  If Jesus Christ is really within you and you've passed the test, then are the 99 really enough for you?

WillieH, I know about your suspicion of theological terms that aren't in the Bible, but do you think that the implications of what you're saying are pointing towards a full preterism, which some would call a realized eschatology?  'Cause that's the only potential criticism that I can foresee for everything that you've said here.  Do you still see Jesus Christ as literally, bodily returning one day to His restored Creation, even if it's not the Revelation 19 cosmic Rambo scenario?  Premillenialists believe that Jesus is practicing His sword swallowing even now so that a blade can protrude from His mouth right on cue for the cosmic drama of the ages!  I'm partially teasing, but we've probably all heard preaching at least once that seemed to take it that far.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:

WillieH, I know about your suspicion of theological terms that aren't in the Bible, but do you think that the implications of what you're saying are pointing towards a full preterism, which some would call a realized eschatology?  'Cause that's the only potential criticism that I can foresee for everything that you've said here.  Do you still see Jesus Christ as literally, bodily returning one day to His restored Creation, even if it's not the Revelation 19 cosmic Rambo scenario?

My  :2c: ...

I see CHRIST's "coming" as the REVELATION of Himself which is ALREADY there in ALL...

If CHRIST is the same yesterday, today and forever... (which of course, He IS!) then He ALWAYS IS within each of us...

In other words, from the INSIDE--OUT, as opposed to from the OUTSIDE (heavens)--IN-TO the individual...

GOD shall open the TRUTH that JESUS CHRIST is IN ALL... and has been ALL ALONG...

Can we believe He has ever been driven from His "home" within us by something He created?  How can that even be considered?  :mshock:

We are His temple... the portions of His Body... which has one by one, toenail, by elbow, ...been given, over the course of TIME each in his own order... the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil... previously known only by the HEAD (heart) of GOD, and His WORD which proceeds from His Heart...  :dontknow:

If I have learned ONE premise which is CENTRAL, in the study and observation of Spiritual things, it is that the OUTER is that which is the REFLECTION, ...not the INNER...  :cloud9:

We are made in the IMAGE... of God... an IMAGE is a REFLECTION...

This NATURAL/physical environment is a REFLECTION of what is actually "REAL"...  :dontknow:

pEace...
...willieH  :happygrin:

[Chris]

I see a reign OF LIFE associated with TODAY, as well as a reign OF DEATH associated with YESTERDAY... both being ONE DAY... and "as A THOUSAND YEARS" (twice).  :Peace2:

In the beginning God divided the light from the darkness, dividing ONE DAY into THE DAY (TODAY, when you hear His voice and harden not your heart... and pass from death unto life) and THE NIGHT (which is "as YESTERDAY" when is it past).

God has a covenant with both (the NIGHT and the DAY).. and is, therefore, the same YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER.  :happygrin:

I agree. TODAY is THE DAY of the Lord.  :dsunny:

And:

Luke 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

TODAY... when you hear His voice and harden not your heart.  :declare:

Then shall we be given right to partake of the Tree of Life and be seated with Christ in heavenly places, He having made us "kings and priests unto God" in the kingdom of the heavens.  :bowing:

[Taffy]

I see a reign OF LIFE associated with TODAY, as well as a reign OF DEATH associated with YESTERDAY... both being ONE DAY... and "as A THOUSAND YEARS" (twice).  :Peace2:

In the beginning God divided the light from the darkness, dividing ONE DAY into THE DAY (TODAY, when you hear His voice and harden not your heart... and pass from death unto life) and THE NIGHT (which is "as YESTERDAY" when is it past).

God has a covenant with both (the NIGHT and the DAY).. and is, therefore, the same YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER.  :happygrin:

I agree. TODAY is THE DAY of the Lord.  :dsunny:

And:

Luke 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

TODAY... when you hear His voice and harden not your heart.  :declare:

Then shall we be given right to partake of the Tree of Life and be seated with Christ in heavenly places, He having made us "kings and priests unto God" in the kingdom of the heavens.  :bowing:

Hi Chris..
Great post.... :icon_flower:

1Th 5:1 ¶ But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.


1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.


1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Seems the WRATH of God are for a certain Kind

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. 

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Eph 5:6  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7  Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


Eph 5:8 ¶ For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9  (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)


Blessings
Taffy

[Pierac]

Hi PeaceTroll,

What is the reason for the following scripture coming to pass?  Who are they going to reign over, and for what purpose?  What is the judgement given to them?  To what end?  Over whom?

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I'm interested in your response. This has been a most confusing area of bible research. I'm working on a paper right now but don't seem to have any hard answers.

One thing I suggest, Keep reading one more verse.
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Since you claim to know who is alive during the thousand years, who is it? The ones a live appear to be "the souls beheaded for the witness of Jesus and who did not worshiped the beast"

Let's back up...

Rev 19:19  And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21  And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

The remnant are slained, so who is still alive for this 1000 years beside the ones who did not take the mark of the beast?

So what are your ideas on this group of people who are alive in the 1000 year period of Rev 20:4?


Paul

[Peacetroll]

1 Thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is not the start of the tousand years, but is the robbing of the strong man's house, the fall of Babylon.  Jesus said;

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

As it was written;

Revelation 18:3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

The angel who has been acting as God here, referred to by Paul as he who lets, is being removed by the wrath of God, the Darkness, and both are distracted in that wonderful moment when takes us in the twinkling of an eye, like lightning, as a thief.
This will happen at exactly the time the Darkness, the wrath of God,  is driven out of heaven. He is distracted for the blink of an eye, while he overcomes his rebellious angel left in charge here. Leviathan.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who are not taken are the virgins who slept at the crucial time, and did not do as Jesus said below.

Mark 13: 33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

What happens to those who believe but do not watch?

Luke 12:45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

What is his portion with the unbelievers?  To be left here in the full knowledge of what has happened with the others and where they are for the 42 year wedding celebration.

Micah 7:14Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.

Isaiah 33:16He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

17Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

What are the spripes he will recieve?

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

When Jesus and the saints come to begin the thousand years, they rise and join the other saints in that thousand year harvest of the crop. Adamic man. The Elect do not return to the earth, but do as paul said.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



From the time the millineum begins, all who ever existed who are not in Christ will be revived, beginning with the last, and progressing back to the first. They will be perfect bodily, but spiritually exactly as they were in this present life.  Revelations put it this way;

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

As Jesus said.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Each person of Adam, His breath, will live 100 years, but the sons of this world will continue on untill fire comes down from God and utterly destroys them, for they are purely carnal flesh and have no breath of life in them.

Isaiah 65:20
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

[Taffy]

willieH: Hello to all... :hithere:

PART TWO:

EXPLANATION...

I would like to first "zero in" on a portion of the previously noted ENGLISH DICTIONARY definition of "millennium", which I believe is VERY MISLEADING and an ADDITION (enlarged below) to what the "Bible" actually NOTES... (Let's see if you caught this as you read it in my previous post)...

millennium... 
   
Main Entry: mil·len·ni·um 
Pronunciation: \mə-ˈle-nē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural mil·len·nia  \-nē-ə\ or mil·len·niums
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin mille thousand + New Latin -ennium (as in biennium)
Date: circa 1638
1 a: the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 during which holiness is to prevail and Christ is to reign on earth b: a period of great happiness or human perfection

This portion of definition is NOT NOTED in the "bible"... there is no indication that this period of CHRIST's "reign" to be a period of "GREAT HAPPINESS", nor "HUMAN PERFECTION"

The Bible simply says:

(Rev 20:4) ...they LIVED and REIGNED with CHRIST a thousand years... ...and,

(Rev 20:6) ...blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be PRIESTS of God and of CHRIST, and shall REIGN with Him a thousand years.

No mention of "PERFECTION", nor of "GREAT HAPPINESS"... so the ENGLISH DICTIONARY defintion above, has ADDED these assumptions to what the "Bible" actually notes...  :dontknow: (btw... WHO are they "REIGN-ING" ...over?  Who are they PRIESTS ...to?  What exactly IS a ...PRIEST?  :JCThink:  Seems to me that others are required by association, in the using of these terms.  :dontknow:)

1000 Years:

First consideration... the "1000" year period is written in a book of SYMBOLS... which makes the "1000" a SYMBOLIC number... (not literally a period of TIME which is 1000 years in duration)

Second consideration... the DAY of YHVH (Y'HoVaH) is where ALL the GENERATIONS of the HISTORY of MAN are found... (Gen 2:4) ...which "DAY" is NOW...

Third consideration... A "DAY" with YHVH is "AS" (like) a THOUSAND "YEARS"... but NOT, ...IS a THOUSAND "YEARS"...

In other words, TIME is irrelevant to the ETERNAL God who views its END from its BEGINNING... but the term "1000 years" IS relevant when considering SPIRITUAL REVELATION... for terms which relate to Him SYMBOLICALLY fall into the "AS" or a "SYMBOLIC / PARABOLIC" form...

Not to be LITERALLY understood... These terms are IMAGES of what actually is said...

The SPIRITUAL reality is ALIVE and PERFECTLY multi-dimensional... the NATURAL is DEAD, and FLAT, and when the SPIRITUAL is percieved incorrectly and incompletely it is observed as follows:

A PAINTING of the MEADOW (natural) is LITERALLY percieved to be the ACTUAL MEADOW (spiritual) which is PAINTED... (hope I'm not going to fast or becoming confusing... its hard to put into words, and admittedly I have not mastered the ability!  :mblush:)

Those who reign WITH CHRIST, do so in the DAY of YHVH... which is IS --- AS a thousand years, not IS a thousand years...

The "DAY" of the LORD is ...NOW! ...NOW is the JUDGMENT of this world, ...NOW is the "day" of Salvation... NOW is the prince of this world CAST OUT... NOW is the ACCEPTED TIME...

There is no LITERAL "1000" year period as peacetroll observes...  The SYMBOLISM for this "1000" years is NOW... ALL the GENERATIONS of MAN have been spent in "NOW"...

ALL LIFE takes place in NOW... not in the past, not in the future... NOW...

(Rev 20:2) "satan" is BOUND in the "DAY (thousand years) of YHVH... within the lives of those who are IN CHRIST... and who are PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION (which are FEW)... which REIGN, takes place IN THIS LIFETIME...

Those who are PART of the First Resurrection were CHOSEN to BE part of it... before the FOUNDATION of the WORLD... (Eph 2:10) 

"TIME" (future or past) does not limit or inhibit the REIGN of CHRIST within them, as it is a REIGN which is done within the DAY of YHVH... which is NOW...

The "DAY" of YHVH is NOW... and that "DAY" is amidst the life of each one IN CHRIST... but is found OUTSIDE (AFTER) the "DAY" in the MANY which is as the SAND of the SEA (Rev 20:8)

Those who are decieved (unable to see or behold CHRIST)... are found OUTSIDE or AFTER the DAY of YHVH... 

This may be hard to grasp... but here goes:

The word translated AFTER in Rev 20:3 is META... which in its definition proposes: amid or accompaniement... also: often used in composition in substancially the SAME relations of PARTICIPATION and PROXIMITY and transfer or SEQUENCE...

I see this passage as noting that DURING not AFTER the "DAY" of YHVH [NOW]... is the Adversary (satan) ...loosed a little season [TIME]... and "out of "it's prison" to deceive the nations which are in the 4 quarters (everywhere) of the earth (men) which are are numbered as the SAND of the SEA... (these being OUTSIDE those IN CHRIST)

Again... this is quite hard to put into words, please forgive my clumsiness...  :mblush:

LAKE OF FIRE...

What is this entity?  Most theologians and especially the VICTIMS of their teachings, subscribe to this being a PLACE of ETERNAL Torment...

I believe it to be NOW... CHRIST counseled us to buy (obtain) GOLD from Him which was TRIED in FIRE (Rev 3:18)... the TRIALS of CHRIST took place in the Human Form and Life that He lived IN TIME...

1. The DEVIL was CAST into this entity (LOF) (Rev 20:10)
2. DEATH and HELL (grave/Hades) were also CAST into this entity (Rev 20:14)
3. Whosoever was not written in the "book of LIFE" was also CAST into this entity (Rev 20:15)

THREE questions with the SAME ANSWER:

1. WHO has the DEVIL (satan) decieved?  ALL have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

2. HOW many of these found DEATH and the GRAVE?  ALL who have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

3. WHO have not been written in the "book of LIFE"?  ALL who have sinned and come short of the GLORY of GOD...

Please PRAY before reading this conclusion dear ones...  :Pray:

The "LAKE of FIRE", and the "1000 years" mentioned in the REVELATION (Revealing of JESUS CHRIST) are the DAY (Spiritual) of YHVH...

What is the NEW NAME? (Rev Rev 2:17 / 3:12)

The NEW NAME is  CHRIST...

ALL those IN CHRIST, are no longer "named" OUTSIDE CHRIST... they are MEMBERS of the BODY of CHRIST... which makes their NAME... CHRIST...

Don't know about you friends, but... My MEMBERS,  ... my "arms", "legs", "toenails" and HEAD... are ALL of and are RECOGNIZED, as having the SAME NAME...  :dontknow:

He that hath an EAR, let him hear what the SPIRIT saith unto the churches...  :icon_king:

pEace...
...willieH  :hihat:

he he Willie..whaT a crock. :thumbdown:

Nah,,JUST busting on ya Bro.... :laughing7:

Nicely put Dude,...and for mine, SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey bro, thanks for the reply on PM. my body physically is still one wreck,...and im  praying all comes well with you VERY, VERY SOON :icon_flower:

T

[Peacetroll]

What ever,--I was answering the question put to me by Pierac, and I said what I said.  YOU have nothing to explain the thousand years, and there is no point to posting what cannot be understood by any who does not have the foundation of Christ.
Paul put it directly, he wanted to tell, and was not permitted to do it, his job was over.

Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

Ears to hear are few and far between.

Jeremiah 3:14
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

I have no more to post on the matter.  YOU have no rational explanation of the event at all.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT...  :icon_king:

I attempt to make you think and question what the scriptures say. There is an explanation of what that thousand years is for that is wonderfull.
I wondered if any of you had really looked into why there should be a thousand year reign of Christ and the Saints. Guess not. :2c:

Now that you're back... how about that "wonderful"?   :dontknow:

PeacE...
...willieH  :laughing7:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT...  :icon_king:

What ever,--I was answering the question put to me by Pierac, and I said what I said.  YOU have nothing to explain the thousand years, and there is no point to posting what cannot be understood by any who does not have the foundation of Christ.
Paul put it directly, he wanted to tell, and was not permitted to do it, his job was over.

Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

Ears to hear are few and far between.

Jeremiah 3:14
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

I have no more to post on the matter.  YOU have no rational explanation of the event at all.

Which "YOU" are you addressing dusty?  :scratchhead:

PeacE...
...willieH  :laughing7:

[Taffy]

quote =peacetroll

YOU have no rational explanation of the event at all.

Peacetroll by all means support your points by way of Scripture but DO NOT make comments like this again...your on a thin edge as it is .


Taffy

[Molly]

well I'm going to take it literally.  It's been 6000 years--6 days from the creation of Adam.

I fully expect the 1000 year reign to be a time of peace and rest in Christ.  For that to happen, evil will have to be taken out of the way.  Imagine how the human race would flower and thrive in a world without evil.

so on the seventh day he rested  from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.--Gen 3

I love the way Peacetroll calls Adam, "the breath of God."

[Taffy]

yo willie

(Rev 20:2) "satan" is BOUND in the "DAY (thousand years) of YHVH... within the lives of those who are IN CHRIST... and who are PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION (which are FEW)... which REIGN, takes place IN THIS LIFETIME...

more on this THOUSAND YRS Brud.

Christ is the DAY ..those in  HIM Called Children of The DAY...

the Day is spereated from the Night as Christ shows us
Jhn 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Jhn 11:10  But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him

SEEMS to me Bud, that he seperates the Night from Day....I see it As those in darkness who do sleep in the night are still under the Ministry of Death Bro....we Move from Death to Life..

Those who sleep In the Night are those still bound By Law...1 Thes 5:3- 5:10

as we are told...A Thousand Years Is as a Day....the 1000yrs are symbolic...we can prove this looking else where

Consider this Bro

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though HE[/b] live a thousand years TWICE TOLD[/u], yet hath he seen no good: do not ALL go to ONE PLACE.
Why Twice Told?

Psalm 90:4  For a thousand years in thy sight are but  AS YESTERDAY WHEN IT HAS PAST :i AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT[/u][/b] (Night is called darkness in Genesis)

are we not told this as well

HE is the SAME Yesterday (was) To Day (is) and For ever (will be)

So what was this yesterday which has Past as a watch in the NIGHT...?

If a Thousand yrs was the 12 hrs Christ spoke of,then symbolically could this NiGHT BE THE SAME...im doing my best to explain here dude, Hope ya see where im coming from.

John speaks of a DARKNESS WHICH IS past AS WELL..the watch in the Night likened to the Night in Gen referred as DARKNESS

1Jo 2:8  Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth


You see Satan As I do Bro..so hoping you see this too

Rev 20:2 And he LAID HOLD on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and BOUND HIM a thousand years,


Satan (the devil) holds The power of death and darkness


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light , and from the power of Satan unto God

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son

The first to Reign IS DEATH (YESTERDAY= Thousand years). We pass from death unto life and are called children of THE DAY IS TO DAY (Reign IN LIFE =Thousand year reign).

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath REIGNED UNTO DEATH, even so MIGHT GRACE REIGN through righteousness UNTO ETERNAL LIFE by Jesus Christour Lord.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence DEATH REIGNED BY ONE; much more THEY WHICH RECEIVE abundance of GRACE and of the GIFT of righteousness SHALL REIGN IN LIFE by one, Jesus Christ


To conclude...The darkness is likened to the Shadow and schoolmaster which was YESTERDAY  which has past as a watch in the NIGHT,...we Now we  walk in the DAY( the new 1000ys) = Christ.
Both the Old and New Testify to HIM  which for mine makes more sense of this scrip bro

HE is the SAME Yesterday (was) To Day (is) and For ever(will be)

Blessings
Taffy

[Peacetroll]

The wonderful thing is the thousand year explanation I gave you in answer to the question posed. As to the you I mean what rational explanation do you have for how these events are ordered, will happen and why, with scriptures. I could have used many more but I laid it out like a table of contents.
It is wonderful, because all will come back in their own order, from the last to the first, all will have the truth in front of their eyes, and there will not a thing of His be lost. Nothing not of Him will be saved.

Acts 3: 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

As written in Job 34:12Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

13Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?

14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;  

15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

[Taffy]

The wonderful thing is the thousand year explanation I gave you in answer to the question posed. As to the you I mean what rational explanation do you have for how these events are ordered, will happen and why, with scriptures. I could have used many more but I laid it out like a table of contents.
It is wonderful, because all will come back in their own order, from the last to the first, all will have the truth in front of their eyes, and there will not a thing of His be lost. Nothing not of Him will be saved.

Acts 3: 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.



22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

As written in Job 34:12Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

13Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?

14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;  

15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Your zeal is admired PT...

if you care to refute what willie has stated it then do it...but dont go on ignoring ...ya great for stating Dusty . a debate is two ways....

rufute what He stated on the resurrection and show the readers ...he gave you for mine,  what your YOU WERE asking, it may not be what you agree with tho...then refute what I proposed, scripture would be fine in adding to the 1000 yr reign..Now friend ill hold my breath . :icon_flower:

Have a nice day PT.

Peace bro...
Blessings
T

[Peacetroll]

Willy gave his version of what the thousand years is and I gave mine. Scriptures were used and applied to explain. I believe what I posted, as I'm sure Willy believes what he posted. There is no point to debating either one point for point, because the points of belief are at polar opposites, and irreconcilable.
We'll know the truth at the Truths appearing, when every eye shall see Him clearly.

                                                                                                                   The grace of God to all who strive for truth.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Brother G! :hithere:

I see this below as very interesting brother!  :happygrin:

yo willie

(Rev 20:2) "satan" is BOUND in the "DAY (thousand years) of YHVH... within the lives of those who are IN CHRIST... and who are PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION (which are FEW)... which REIGN, takes place IN THIS LIFETIME...

more on this THOUSAND YRS Brud.

Christ is the DAY ..those in  HIM Called Children of The DAY...

the Day is spereated from the Night as Christ shows us
Jhn 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Jhn 11:10  But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him

SEEMS to me Bud, that he seperates the Night from Day....I see it As those in darkness who do sleep in the night are still under the Ministry of Death Bro....we Move from Death to Life..

Those who sleep In the Night are those still bound By Law...1 Thes 5:3- 5:10

as we are told...A Thousand Years Is as a Day....the 1000yrs are symbolic...we can prove this looking else where

Consider this Bro

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though HE[/b] live a thousand years TWICE TOLD[/u], yet hath he seen no good: do not ALL go to ONE PLACE.
Why Twice Told?

Psalm 90:4  For a thousand years in thy sight are but  AS YESTERDAY WHEN IT HAS PAST :i AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT[/u][/b] (Night is called darkness in Genesis)

are we not told this as well

HE is the SAME Yesterday (was) To Day (is) and For ever (will be)

So what was this yesterday which has Past as a watch in the NIGHT...?

If a Thousand yrs was the 12 hrs Christ spoke of,then symbolically could this NiGHT BE THE SAME...im doing my best to explain here dude, Hope ya see where im coming from.

John speaks of a DARKNESS WHICH IS past AS WELL..the watch in the Night likened to the Night in Gen referred as DARKNESS

1Jo 2:8  Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth


You see Satan As I do Bro..so hoping you see this too

Rev 20:2 And he LAID HOLD on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and BOUND HIM a thousand years,


Satan (the devil) holds The power of death and darkness


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light , and from the power of Satan unto God

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son

The first to Reign IS DEATH (YESTERDAY= Thousand years). We pass from death unto life and are called children of THE DAY IS TO DAY (Reign IN LIFE =Thousand year reign).

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath REIGNED UNTO DEATH, even so MIGHT GRACE REIGN through righteousness UNTO ETERNAL LIFE by Jesus Christour Lord.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence DEATH REIGNED BY ONE; much more THEY WHICH RECEIVE abundance of GRACE and of the GIFT of righteousness SHALL REIGN IN LIFE by one, Jesus Christ


To conclude...The darkness is likened to the Shadow and schoolmaster which was YESTERDAY  which has past as a watch in the NIGHT,...we Now we  walk in the DAY( the new 1000ys) = Christ.
Both the Old and New Testify to HIM  which for mine makes more sense of this scrip bro

HE is the SAME Yesterday (was) To Day (is) and For ever(will be)

Blessings
Taffy

Very, VERY, interesting me bratha!  :icon_rr:

Are you saying "TWICE TOLD" ...is OLD & NEW Testaments?

In the NIGHT portion of the DAY of YHVH (Natural/OT/LAW) CHRIST is VEILED but still THERE ...for the OT Scriptures TESTIFY of HIM as He noted: (John 5:39), ...and

In the DAY portion of the DAY of YHVH (Spiritual/NT/GRACE) CHRIST is REVEALED... for the NT TESTIFIES of the REVELATION of HIM ...as IT notes that revelation! (John 15:26)... 

The SAME ...YESTERDAY (OT/law/veiled) TODAY (NT/GRACE/revealed) and FOREVER uniting ALL THINGS, ...IN HIM? (Col 1:20 / 1 Cor 15:28)

For the LAW is JUST and HOLY and GOOD (Rom 7:12) but by indicating SIN, it works in us, DEATH (Rom 7:13)...

But GRACE is the WAY into the KINGDOM as it provides TRUTH and LIFE, ...In the HEAVENLIES, ...where the LAW exists, not being "kept" but as FULFILLED in ALL which has been brought together by YHVH, ...IN CHRIST! (Matt 5:17)

PeacE...
...willieH  :laughing7:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi dusty... :hithere:

Willy gave his version of what the thousand years is and I gave mine. Scriptures were used and applied to explain. I believe what I posted, as I'm sure Willy believes what he posted. There is no point to debating either one point for point, because the points of belief are at polar opposites, and irreconcilable.
We'll know the truth at the Truths appearing, when every eye shall see Him clearly.

                                                                                                                   The grace of God to all who strive for truth.

This is true PT... but your presentation STILL rests in part upon UNBIBLICAL terms and references... and STILL, within its conclusion... relinquishes SOME of God's creation (non-"Adamic" according to you)... to DEFEAT, and (these) remain IN DEATH, and therefore DEATH remains FOREVER...   :thumbdown:

Holding that which YOU claim is other than offspring of Adam IN DEATH, and which "said unproven and unmentioned offspring", ...have no BIBLICAL foundation... (your claim that there exists on earth --- another "race" of Humans NOT of Adam, and which is NOT Biblically noted  :thumbdown:) 

And said version, remains CONTRARY to (1 Cor 15:54-55 / Col 1:20 / 1 Cor 15:22) to name just a FEW ...for if DEATH remains for ANY entity which GOD has created... then DEATH has NOT been "swallowed up in VICTORY"... Rather it REMAINS for those entities...  :thumbdown:

If you wish to let this set as is... that is fine with me, ...However the difference between our views, ...is that your version travels OUTSIDE Scripture to prove itself (using unBIBLICAL terms and references), ...whereas, ...mine (whether right or wrong) remains completely based IN the WORD...  :dontknow:

PeacE...
...willieH  :laughing7:

[Taffy]

Very, VERY, interesting me bratha! 

Are you saying "TWICE TOLD" ...is OLD & NEW Testaments?

In the NIGHT portion of the DAY of YHVH (Natural/OT/LAW) CHRIST is VEILED but still THERE ...for the OT Scriptures TESTIFY of HIM as He noted: (John 5:39), ...and

In the DAY portion of the DAY of YHVH (Spiritual/NT/GRACE) CHRIST is REVEALED... for the NT TESTIFIES of the REVELATION of HIM ...as IT notes that revelation! (John 15:26)... 

The SAME ...YESTERDAY (OT/law/veiled) TODAY (NT/GRACE/revealed) and FOREVER uniting ALL THINGS, ...IN HIM? (Col 1:20 / 1 Cor 15:28)

For the LAW is JUST and HOLY and GOOD (Rom 7:12) but by indicating SIN, it works in us, DEATH (Rom 7:13)...

But GRACE is the WAY into the KINGDOM as it provides TRUTH and LIFE, ...In the HEAVENLIES, ...where the LAW exists, not being "kept" but as FULFILLED in ALL which has been brought together by YHVH, ...IN CHRIST! (Matt 5:17)

Hi Willie..ya about nailed it Brud :happy3: :happy3: :happy3:

Are you saying "TWICE TOLD" ...is OLD & NEW Testaments?stroke  both Covenants...

WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance:
Blessings G

[Molly]

1 I have seen another evil under the sun, and it weighs heavily on men: 2 God gives a man wealth, possessions and honor, so that he lacks nothing his heart desires, but God does not enable him to enjoy them, and a stranger enjoys them instead. This is meaningless, a grievous evil.

3 A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive proper burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he. 4 It comes without meaning, it departs in darkness, and in darkness its name is shrouded. 5 Though it never saw the sun or knew anything, it has more rest than does that man- 6 even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his prosperity. Do not all go to the same place?

--Ecc 6



What is the 'another evil' he is talking about?  Isn't it the futility of life?  Isn't it death, and how death wipes out any meaning in life?  Rich or poor, fecund or barren, wise or fool: all sinks into the obscurity of death.  All go to the same place--the grave.   A stillborn child--a child who has never been born--is better off than the living.  Man's life, even though he live a thousand years twice told, is meaningless.



12 For who knows what is good for a man in life, during the few and meaningless days he passes through like a shadow? Who can tell him what will happen under the sun after he is gone?

--Ecc 6