The Revealing of Jesus Christ

[Moshood]

THE SECOND DEATH
The Crucifixion [ Death ] and Burial [ Destruction ] of the Unrighteous Individual's Old Corrupted and Iniquitous Self with Christ
through His/Her Spiritual Union with Him upon Conversion in the Likeness of His Death, Burial and Resurrection

He who Overcomes shall not be Harmed by the Second Death.
- The Overcomer [ Christ in us ] is Unharmed by the Second Death.
- The Old Corrupted SELF [ Beast in us ] is Harmed by the Second Death.

Blessed are those that Overcome; The Second Death hath no power over them.
- The Second Death hath no Power [ Authority ] over the Overcomer [ Christ in us ].
- The Second Death hath Power [ Authority ] over the Old Corrupted SELF [ Beast in us ].

[vagabond]

I would like to lay out an outline of how i view the "lake of fire".

First, we know that God is referred to as a "consuming fire".

We also know that God is Light and in him there is no darkness.

We know also that fire, even at the time of Cain and Abel was used to sacrifice animals as an atonement. In fact, it is suggested that fire would come down and consume the sacrifice if the sacrifice was acceptable to God. If it was not acceptable no fire would come from heaven and consume it.This may be how Cain knew that his sacrifice was not acceptable. This is quite possibly why Job knew he was in good standing with God, he had sacrificed for himself and for his sons and daughters (just in case).

The tabernacle, the outer court was lightened by the natural sun, thus the sacrifice and atonement's were for the natural man. The innercourt was lightened by the candlestick (the Holy Spirit in-part) Church realm? The most Holy place was lightened by the Glory of the very presence of God. Anyone entering this place defiled would drop dead. Now we know what the glory of God consumes....evil.

The face of Moses shown like an angel, so bright they had to veil his face. At his death he still looked like a young man (one cannot even age in this glory)

Christ, on the mount of transformation, when in the presence of the two witnesses became clothed in the glory of God's brightness.

And Steven, at his stoning, his face shown like an angel as he declared "lay not this sin to their charge". This is perhaps the best example of the Lake of fire, for at that time there was wailing and gnashing of teeth also:
Acts 7:54When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Comparing that with:Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Elijah called for fire from heaven.

Jesus said:Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Now to the point....Jesus is like the tree...his body of many members is the forest. Jesus was but a flame....but the many membered body of Christ is like a lake of fire.

Steven stood before the Elders, being "FILLED" (not in-part) but "FILLED" with the Holy Spirit. Using the Word of God he cut them to the heart and exposed their inner thoughts and intents to the light of God.

Can you imagine what a "MANY membered body" of Steven's would be like?

Now then, keeping in mind that being in the very presence of God, as Moses, the physical body could not even age, let's look at 1 Cor.15) 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

This verse shows me that a generation coming won't see physical death, but will change/transform while they are still using their natural bodies.

:53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

:54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Is this not the manifestation of the sons of God, the many membered body? Is this not even the "rapture itself"? And what would a body of lights look like all moving in one accord? Like a lake of light(s)? A large body of fire?

And just as trees exchange bad air for good air, how would this body effect this world?

Isaiah 31:9
And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the LORD, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.

This is what i'm seeing as the lake of fire.

[squint]

Many in UR are trying to make a case that the infamous Lake is God and that "all things" are therein cast and therein find their eternal life.

I have several responses, basically in the form of questions, that should cast more than a shadow of doubt upon that presentation.

A.)  There are numeous types of fires in the Bible.  Not all of them are the same, so it is somewhat disconnected to make for example, a physical fire here on earth into the same fire as that of the infamous Lake of Fire.  There are also fires that come down from heaven.  One destroys God's enemies.  There is also a fire that burns but does not consume.  So in effect there is no way to logically connect "all of these fires" as having the same intent and purpose when that obviously is not the case.

B.)  We know that the fire for the DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS whom we know for a FACT to be headed to the Lake of Fire is the same fire as the fire presented by Jesus in Matthew 25 since we have both fire and the one's headed there being in both accounts, save the fire in Matthew 25 does not have the term "Lake" attached until Revelation accounts.

C.)  Since the "fire" in Matthew 25 is prepared or MADE for the devil and his messengers, it CANNOT be God as the consuming fire, as God is not a MADE thing.

I have put this query to several UR preachers who have been promoting this position, and most of them either cannot or will not address this situation.  I also have my own observations as to "why" they do not address this, and it revolves largely around many in UR who "believe" that their fellow man who are NOT believers are going to be tossed into that Lake of Fire for "temporary torture" and that suits a doctrine of fear peddling to "make" people believe as they believe, very similar in the way "eternal torture" of mankind believers "sell" their wares and gather their adherents and financial supporters.

squint

[vagabond]

Hi squint, and although i do respect your views and can see why you hold to this position, the evidence you've provided against it can also be used for it...in my view:

A.)  There are numerous types of fires in the Bible.  Not all of them are the same, so it is somewhat disconnected to make for example, a physical fire here on earth into the same fire as that of the infamous Lake of Fire.  There are also fires that come down from heaven.  One destroys God's enemies.  There is also a fire that burns but does not consume.  So in effect there is no way to logically connect "all of these fires" as having the same intent and purpose when that obviously is not the case

.

The lake of fire is to destroy death and hell...is it not?
The fire that the Hebrew children were cast into did two things, burned only the wicked (those who cast them in) and the "son of man" appeared. The Children of God were infected in no way. Thus this fire was both a consuming (of evil) and a non-consuming (of good).

The fire (light) in the Holy of Holies was both a consuming and a non-consuming fire. It would kill a man carrying guilt if he entered, but would not harm a man cleansed. A

The fire that is used to purify gold is also a consuming and non-consuming fire, it burns the dross but doesn't harm the gold.

The fire that Paul mentions in:1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
the evil deeds that even Paul mentions in Rom.7 are burned up, and the man himself is saved from the evil that once controlled his flesh.

And the sudden transformation mentioned in 1 Cor.15) Shows the mortal body being consumed/clothed with the inner immortal. And what happens "death is swallowed up", but the man himself remains unharmed.

Your faith is tried by fire:1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

B.)  We know that the fire for the DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS whom we know for a FACT to be headed to the Lake of Fire is the same fire as the fire presented by Jesus in Matthew 25 since we have both fire and the one's headed there being in both accounts, save the fire in Matthew 25 does not have the term "Lake" attached until Revelation accounts.

Reason for that may be: Jesus was "THE" son of God, he was the "Flame" (Isaiah 10:17
And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;).  Notice Israel (the people of God) are the fire, Jesus Christ the Holy one is but a flame. In Revelation we are dealing with one "like unto" the Son of man(Rev.1:13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.)  This, in my view is the many membered body of Christ. The one with many voices.

C.)  Since the "fire" in Matthew 25 is prepared or MADE for the devil and his messengers, it CANNOT be God as the consuming fire, as God is not a MADE thing.

The same fire that is used to purify gold also burns the dross. Look at how the sons of Levi are to be purified:

Mal.3:2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

He shall sit and He shall purify. Purify them from what? Sounds like their little devils are going to burned in, and by, the same fire that saves them.

As for god not being made a "thing", The fire is the very "presence" of God. And what would you do with the verse "God is a consuming fire"?

I have put this query to several UR preachers who have been promoting this position, and most of them either cannot or will not address this situation.  I also have my own observations as to "why" they do not address this, and it revolves largely around many in UR who "believe" that their fellow man who are NOT believers are going to be tossed into that Lake of Fire for "temporary torture" and that suits a doctrine of fear peddling to "make" people believe as they believe, very similar in the way "eternal torture" of mankind believers "sell" their wares and gather their adherents and financial supporters.

The fire of God only tortures his enemies, it's a blessing to all else.

Let me leave you with one last verse showing the army of God (manifested sons) in the last day:

Joel 2:2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Read on and you'll see this is God's great army.

Happy to discuss it further squint. 

[Kept]

Great Posts Vagabond!!

:girlheart:


kept

[AbbasChild]

I agree with Kept!  :thumbsup:

[Taffy]

The lake of fire is to destroy death and hell...is it not?
The fire that the Hebrew children were cast into did two things, burned only the wicked (those who cast them in) and the "son of man" appeared. The Children of God were infected in no way. Thus this fire was both a consuming (of evil) and a non-consuming (of good).

Same Fire with dual purpose...AMEN Vagabond....that which burns the Tares and leaves the wheat,,,...

Blessings
T

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Taffy... :hithere:

The lake of fire is to destroy death and hell...is it not?
The fire that the Hebrew children were cast into did two things, burned only the wicked (those who cast them in) and the "son of man" appeared. The Children of God were infected in no way. Thus this fire was both a consuming (of evil) and a non-consuming (of good).

Same Fire with dual purpose...AMEN Vagabond....that which burns the Tares and leaves the wheat,,,...

Blessings
T

A few observances to consider my new friend...

DEATH and HELL (hades=grave) were DESTROYED at the CROSS... in THIS EARTH, in THIS TIME REALM... which IS the LAKE of FIRE...  CHRIST (2000 years ago) conquered DEATH and HELL... (1 Cor 15:54)  Death ...IS... swallowed up in victory! O ...DEATH... where is thy sting... O ...GRAVE... where is thy victory?

Though the COMPLETE manifestation of the ETERNAL has not yet been REVEALED... it ALREADY ...IS...   :myahoo:

The WRATH of GOD is NOW (Rom 1:18)... the JUDGMENT is NOW (John 12:32)... The SUFFERING is NOW (Rom 8:18)... these are ALL happening within TIME... and TIME's experience of these, is as noted in Ecc 3 and...

TIME shall END (Rev 10:6 / John 6:44 / John 12:48)

ALL have been "blotted out"... ALL have left their "first love"... ALL are subjected to the FIRE (Mk 9:49)... and ALL are WRITTEN in the BOOK of the Lamb's LIFE...  :gangel:

More to say later, gotta go...  :laughing7:

PeAcE...  :gamer:

In  JESUS...willieH   :angel4:

[Taffy]

willieH: Hi Taffy... :hithere:

The lake of fire is to destroy death and hell...is it not?
The fire that the Hebrew children were cast into did two things, burned only the wicked (those who cast them in) and the "son of man" appeared. The Children of God were infected in no way. Thus this fire was both a consuming (of evil) and a non-consuming (of good).

Same Fire with dual purpose...AMEN Vagabond....that which burns the Tares and leaves the wheat,,,...

Blessings
T

A few observances to consider my new friend...

DEATH and HELL (hades=grave) were DESTROYED at the CROSS... in THIS EARTH, in THIS TIME REALM... which IS the LAKE of FIRE...  CHRIST (2000 years ago) conquered DEATH and HELL... (1 Cor 15:54)  Death ...IS... swallowed up in victory! O ...DEATH... where is thy sting... O ...GRAVE... where is thy victory?

Though the COMPLETE manifestation of the ETERNAL has not yet been REVEALED... it ALREADY ...IS...   :myahoo:

The WRATH of GOD is NOW (Rom 1:18)... the JUDGMENT is NOW (John 12:32)... The SUFFERING is NOW (Rom 8:18)... these are ALL happening within TIME... and TIME's experience of these, is as noted in Ecc 3 and...

TIME shall END (Rev 10:6 / John 6:44 / John 12:48)

ALL have been "blotted out"... ALL have left their "first love"... ALL are subjected to the FIRE (Mk 9:49)... and ALL are WRITTEN in the BOOK of the Lamb's LIFE...  :gangel:

More to say later, gotta go...  :laughing7:

PeAcE...  :gamer:

In  JESUS...willieH   :angel4:

yo willie mmy ma..........your thots are always welcome

so the wrath of God is on those children of disobiedience......those still under the Curse...

Willie...i say little, but im with ya  matey.......

Christ   is, WAS and WILL be..I tend to read scripture that way.....trying to expound it in that manner is hard to do.......

Yes the lake is TODAY..as it was Yesterday and wil be tomorrow.......

victory...spot  on matey.....

Christ is our victory :icon_flower:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. ....

ALL have been "blotted out"... ALL have left their "first love"... ALL are subjected to the FIRE (Mk 9:49)... and ALL are WRITTEN in the BOOK of the Lamb's LIFE

AMEN there to willie..........

talk later..
Taffy

[vagabond]

WillieH,

Though the COMPLETE manifestation of the ETERNAL has not yet been REVEALED... it ALREADY ...IS...  

The WRATH of GOD is NOW (Rom 1:18)... the JUDGMENT is NOW (John 12:32)... The SUFFERING is NOW (Rom 8:18)... these are ALL happening within TIME... and TIME's experience of these, is as noted in Ecc 3 and...

TIME shall END (Rev 10:6 / John 6:44 / John 12:48)

Is was and shall be, how true.....

Hi taffy,

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. ....

An excellent point....how important it is to have faith tried!

[Redlettervoice]

Sounds right to me! 

What do you think is the "first" death?

[julzabro2]

I think the 1st death is the spiritual death where one puts off the old man and becomes an "overcomer". Therefore, the 2nd death....physical death...does not affect he who has overcome the old man by putting faith in Jesus Christ.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Julz... :hithere:

I think the 1st death is the spiritual death where one puts off the old man and becomes an "overcomer". Therefore, the 2nd death....physical death...does not affect he who has overcome the old man by putting faith in Jesus Christ.

Absolutely, RIGHT ON! Julz...  :Yesss:

The death CHRIST "tasted" for all men (Heb 2:9)... is the death in the SPIRIT which all die upon SINNING... which is WHY CHRIST noted:  ...let the DEAD [Spiritually], bury their DEAD [Physically]... (Lk 9:60)

But the 2nd death, is the PHYSICAL one, of which we all partake of, and endure for ourselves... those in CHRIST upon dieing this death, shall not be HURT of it...

Scripture does NOT indicate that those in CHRIST shall not partake of the 2nd Death, it just notes those shall not be HURT of it... WHY you ask?  Because those in CHRIST, do not take SHAME into the Resurrection from that DEATH... (Rev 2:11)

Peace...  :thumbsup:

In  JESUS...willieH  :boogie:

[laren]

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ is constraining us, judging this, that, if One died for the sake of all, consequently all died.

2Co 5:15  And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 7:27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Mat 5:13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 10:35  Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward.

Heb 10:38  Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Jud 1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

[Moshood]

Sounds right to me! 

What do you think is the "first" death?

The First Death = To be Carnally Minded [ Dead in Sin ]

[Stardust75]

Willie H quoted:

"Scripture does NOT indicate that those in CHRIST shall not partake of the 2nd Death, it just notes those shall not be HURT of it... WHY you ask?  Because those in CHRIST, do not take SHAME into the Resurrection from that DEATH... (Rev 2:11)"

Question?

Those outside of Jesus Christ take shame into the resurrection? What exactly does that mean? Could you explain further....

[Redlettervoice]

Willie H quoted:

"Scripture does NOT indicate that those in CHRIST shall not partake of the 2nd Death, it just notes those shall not be HURT of it... WHY you ask?  Because those in CHRIST, do not take SHAME into the Resurrection from that DEATH... (Rev 2:11)"

NOW, "I've" got a question. Willie, or anyone.......there is a "death" that is said to be the last enemy?

It says it is the "last enemy" to be DESTROYED!

What do you think that is?
'

[Kratos]

To add to Red's question, Willie said that all are partaker of the second death. Does this mean that you do not believe that there will be a generation of Overcomers that will overcome this second death and just be changed in a twinkling of an eye without tasting this second death?

John

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Stardust!  Peace...  :Peace:

Willie H quoted:

"Scripture does NOT indicate that those in CHRIST shall not partake of the 2nd Death, it just notes those shall not be HURT of it... WHY you ask?  Because those in CHRIST, do not take SHAME into the Resurrection from that DEATH... (Rev 2:11)"

Question?

Those outside of Jesus Christ take shame into the resurrection? What exactly does that mean? Could you explain further....

Not ALL shall bow the knee, nor confess with the tongue in this lifetime... and therefore have NOT brought the SHAME of SIN before GOD... seeking FORGIVENESS of SIN found in the CROSS of CHRIST...

In my present view... we are amidst the Lake of Fire NOW... SD... and the RESURRECTION (from physical death) has not happened for ANYONE... those who are in CHRIST NOW, have ALREADY brought their SHAME before CHRIST... And their SHAME shall be hidden IN HIM...

(Rev 3:18) O counsel thee to buy of me gold TRIED in the FIRE [CHRIST bore the sins and suffering for ALL in the "fire" LOF], that thou mayest be RICH; and WHITE RAIMENT [cleansing] that thou mayest be CLOTHED and that the SHAME of thy NAKEDNESS do NOT APPEAR... and annoint thine EYES with eye SALVE [the TRUTH of the GOSPEL] that though mayest SEE....

When ones SINS are hidden IN CHRIST, they do NO longer APPEAR... and the SHAME (of their sins) shall not be taken to the grave, of the death of this life...

Hope that helps you understand my statement above...  :Pray:

pEAce...  :Sparkletooth:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Red... :hithere:

Willie H quoted:

"Scripture does NOT indicate that those in CHRIST shall not partake of the 2nd Death, it just notes those shall not be HURT of it... WHY you ask?  Because those in CHRIST, do not take SHAME into the Resurrection from that DEATH... (Rev 2:11)"

NOW, "I've" got a question. Willie, or anyone.......there is a "death" that is said to be the last enemy?

It says it is the "last enemy" to be DESTROYED!

What do you think that is?

DEATH in ALL its FORMS was thrown AMIDST this LIFE and are ENDURED in THIS LIFE... for ADAM (& Eve) suffered the  FIRST DEATH (Spirit) for which CHRIST died FOR us... (He did not die the 2nd death for us)...

Also, ...WE DIE the 2nd Death (Physical)... At the CONCLUSION of our LIFETIME on earth...

But BOTH of these (death) "ENEMIES" are DESTROYED by CHRIST's DEATH and RESURRECTION... which for Him has already occured, but for US has yet to be realized...

We must each first DIE in the PHYSICAL... then be RESURRECTED... and WITHIN the RESURRECTION is found the DEATH of both DEATHS (spiritual and physical)...

If we DIE in CHRIST... (our sins forgiven) we are RESURRECTED (1st "resurrection") WITH HIM (spiritually), ...now, in THIS LIFETIME...

If we DIE in SHAME (in our sins)... we bring to the 2nd death (the grave of this life), those sins... and in (2nd) RESURRECTION we rise in SHAME... however... as those who rise in SHAME, bow at the knee, and CONFESS CHRIST as LORD...  the SIN which hurts in its EXPOSURE, ...is removed... for CHRIST took away ALL the SIN of the WORLD... dieing ONCE for ALL...

This is a SPIRITUAL look at the RESURRECTION (from the grave of this life)... most will continue to view the PHYSICAL, as continuing beyond this life and beyond the GRAVE... with which I presently disagree...

HELL (hades/grave) and DEATH (both spiritual [1st] & physical [2nd] ) were cast INTO the LAKE of FIRE...  to be destroyed... they were DESTROYED by the Work of the CROSS which contains FORGIVENESS and RESURRECTION (this lifetime, IS the Lake of Fire)

Once we are DONE by DEATH in the PHYSICAL... we are DONE with the PHYSICAL... which is why CHRIST stated that He not be TOUCHED just following His RESURRECTION, because He had not yet ASCENDED to the Father... once this was done (ascension), those in this tainted scenario could not DEFILE Him and His resurrected state was COMPLETE...  :dontknow:

Peace...  :Sparkletooth:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi John... :hithere:

To add to Red's question, Willie said that all are partaker of the second death. Does this mean that you do not believe that there will be a generation of Overcomers that will overcome this second death and just be changed in a twinkling of an eye without tasting this second death?

John

There (to my knowledge) is no Scripture which states that ANYONE shall escape the 2nd Death...  The Scriptures state that the OVERCOMERS (In CHRIST) shall not be HURT of it (Rev 3:11), but does NOT SAY... that those OVERCOMERS (In CHRIST) shall escape the 2nd Death...

It is the FIRST death which is OVERCOME in this LIFE... by becoming IN CHRIST within THIS LIFE... not all shall become IN CHRIST, in this life...

All DIE the 2nd DEATH... which is PHYSICAL DEATH...  :nod:

Peace...  :Sparkletooth:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[bobf]

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, `Write: Happy are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time!' `Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours -- and their works do follow them!

My understanding is that the first and second death are contained in this verse.  The first death is (as others have posted) being carnally minded and spiritually dead. The second death is "dying in the Lord", the destruction of the "man of sin" who sits on Christ's throne in His temple, who are we.  When we enter into God's rest, the last enemy, the first death, is destroyed.

[Moshood]

THE FIRST DEATH = The Conscious Separation and Spiritual Estrangement of the Individual from the Living God.

[Craig]

I think the 1st death is the spiritual death where one puts off the old man and becomes an "overcomer". Therefore, the 2nd death....physical death...does not affect he who has overcome the old man by putting faith in Jesus Christ.

I agree with you.

[Kratos]

willieH: Hi John... :hithere:

To add to Red's question, Willie said that all are partaker of the second death. Does this mean that you do not believe that there will be a generation of Overcomers that will overcome this second death and just be changed in a twinkling of an eye without tasting this second death?

John

There (to my knowledge) is no Scripture which states that ANYONE shall escape the 2nd Death...  The Scriptures state that the OVERCOMERS (In CHRIST) shall not be HURT of it (Rev 3:11), but does NOT SAY... that those OVERCOMERS (In CHRIST) shall escape the 2nd Death...

It is the FIRST death which is OVERCOME in this LIFE... by becoming IN CHRIST within THIS LIFE... not all shall become IN CHRIST, in this life...

All DIE the 2nd DEATH... which is PHYSICAL DEATH...  :nod:

Peace...  :Sparkletooth:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

Willie,

Don't these verses speak of a generation of Ovecomers that will overcome the second death by being changed into their immortal bodies without going the way of death?

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

John