The Dynamic of Loosing Love.

[Stardust75]

 Stardust, I understand completely what you are saying. My only advice would be to ask Him to consume your emotions with the fire of His Spirit, so that the motive of them is brought under the rein of the Spirit and not the soul. As someone who was tormented with emotions most of my life until He led me to do this, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. We don't realize how much we are led by emotions until He cuts those cords to our heart, so that we are only moved by His Spirit instead. Ahhhh, the rest of the Lord..........
Blessings to you in your walking out of His perfect will in your life........


Cardinal,
thank you for your words! It confirms how the Lord worked last night. My ex and I have been going through alot and recently have had a set back in what was growing communication. Last week the Lord gave me a mental picture of how to begin to respond to him. Last night, we had dinner together and it appeared as though he may open up a bit. He did not. I really had to control my emotions regarding this (the wall in communication has been a hard wall to break down). At the end of the evening I had to really surrender to the Lord, I told Him I really needed Him, but was really angry at the things currently happening I felt like I could not rest in His presence and I was feeling really powerless and I did not want to react and I wanted His spirit to control my emotions, so that I did not react and say anything out of anger. He Led me to Luke 10:19 and to look up the following in the dictionary and copy the various definitions that would apply to this situation.
Authority: the power to determine, ajudicate, or otherwise settle issues, the right to control or command or determine
Trample:to tread heavily, roughly or crushingly tread underfoot. to domineer harshly over to put out or extinguish by trampling
Snakes: A treacherous person; an insiduous enemy
Scorpion: arachnid; whip or scourge
Overcome: to prevail over, to gain the victory
What light and peace came over me as I meditated on that scripture in light of those definitions. I have been given power over the enemy, he does not have power over me! Power over snakes and scorpions (snake=enemy; scorpion=the whip and scourge that the enemy uses....in Christ we have power over the enemy AND the blows he goves us through whatever vessel) I could then rest in knowing that Jesus Christ in me is really in control. I did not need to focus on, fret or worry, about how my husband is acting, reacting or whatever. My weapon is peace, self-control, joy, love, and the knowledge that enemy will be defeated when exercising these things! Not maybe, not hopefully, WILL BE DEFEATED. That is the truth that is in the Word. Faith!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That is so cool. If you read my testimony on the other thread, I should have added that very scripture is what He had me to stand on every night my friend was under demonic attack. I literally read it out loud to what was harassing her, because He told me to. I had to come to the place in Him, and so did she, where we KNEW without a shadow of doubt who we were in Christ and who He was in us, and this was the most literal visceral way to see the power of God and His Word, in action, and let me tell you. It WORKS!

I'd say He is using him to strengthen YOUR spiritual "muscles", to bring the Christ in you to increase, while you decrease. It's ALL good, it's just hard to deal with, until we have the emotions part of us completely under control of the Spirit.

Here's a thought for you. He rebuked me once because I started crying, praying for my X, in person. The reason was, it was not His Spirit of travail crying THRU me, it was ME crying in my emotions. He told me the emotions were interfering with the flow of His Spirit thru me, and I was to command them beneath my feet right now, so that His Spirit could do the works needed thru me, as I was hindering it.

And I was, I was losing the ability to hear Him at that moment, so lost in my own pain, and it was NOT about me at that moment. So many times, He has to remind us, it's not about US, it's about Him and His will. I needed that written on my forehead for many years, LOL.........Blessings to you......

[Stardust75]

Mickiel,
Much wisdom  in what you shared!!!! I do agree! I would not encourage many to follow the path God has me on..on fact I would not be one it one bit if God had not been making as clear as he had..truly I could write a book on it! Very humbling, I am still learning. But truly he has shown by experience and through his word that he has called many to uncomfortable paths..Moses, Joseph, Job, Jonah, our Savior!
I have many times asked Him if this is my desire or His, or both? When faced with different situations over the years, it is amazing what He's allowed me to learn through stubborness and obedience, literally opening and closing doors. I still do not speak so boldy as to say I know for sure how this is all going to play out. But, His guidance and things He has done really makes me stand in quiet awe, calms my questioning spirit, makes me quiety take His hand, and say in submission, "Daddy, I do not understand but I will do what you say.."
And believe me my flesh rises up and cringes at times to that...trust me!!!LOL!

[Stardust75]

Cardinal,

Wow! I can relate!!!! He did not speak to me in the exact same way..but has been emphasizing to me as well to toughen up so to speak in regards to my emotions. There was a season of travail in the Spirit, and now is a season to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might! I'm not talking unhealthy denial, I'm talking grown up, mature, I know who my Daddy is and I'm not going to act like a powerless crybaby! He's proven Himself strong on my behalf now I have to behave like I know this!

[Stardust75]

oh which thread did you post that testimony on?

[Cardinal]

Cardinal,

Wow! I can relate!!!! He did not speak to me in the exact same way..but has been emphasizing to me as well to toughen up so to speak in regards to my emotions. There was a season of travail in the Spirit, and now is a season to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might! I'm not talking unhealthy denial, I'm talking grown up, mature, I know who my Daddy is and I'm not going to act like a powerless crybaby! He's proven Himself strong on my behalf now I have to behave like I know this!

:cloud9: EXACTLY......and it's in the public lounge, Testimonies, under Hopeful's thread about "The God I Know". I had to look it up myself, I "lose" threads on here all the time, LOL.....

[Mickiel]

Mickiel,
Much wisdom  in what you shared!!!! I do agree! I would not encourage many to follow the path God has me on..on fact I would not be one it one bit if God had not been making as clear as he had..truly I could write a book on it! Very humbling, I am still learning. But truly he has shown by experience and through his word that he has called many to uncomfortable paths..Moses, Joseph, Job, Jonah, our Savior!
I have many times asked Him if this is my desire or His, or both? When faced with different situations over the years, it is amazing what He's allowed me to learn through stubborness and obedience, literally opening and closing doors. I still do not speak so boldy as to say I know for sure how this is all going to play out. But, His guidance and things He has done really makes me stand in quiet awe, calms my questioning spirit, makes me quiety take His hand, and say in submission, "Daddy, I do not understand but I will do what you say.."
And believe me my flesh rises up and cringes at times to that...trust me!!!LOL!

Well quite often the Love of a Woman has a mind of its own and a very powerful grip. Just as often she has a hold on something dead, which does not Love her. There are times a person can die, and their hand is gripped aroung something so tight, that the embalmer must break their bones to release their grip. There is no honor or Spirituality, or intelligent reason for a Woman to hold on to a man who does not Love her, she is simply reacting to her emotions, which at times are stronger than her Spirit, than her Intelligence, than her relationship with God. That man she holds to can get her to do things God wouldnot want her to do. And yet she still holds to him. In such cases the Love of God willnot try to break her bones and release her grip, because God is a jealous God, he willnot interfere when we Love things more than him. He wants our Love for himself, but willnot break up our marriages and our grip on other gods, he will respect that relationship, and deal with us after we die. Thats something that we have to do. If we show ourselves to have a desire to be free from our other " Loves" then God will intervene in our flesh. He will not break up a marriage. He willnot try to displace another god that we Love. God will only do that in certain individuals who are going to impact history and cannot allow their ignorance to impact others against his will.

Peace.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Mickiel, you are on a roll with this one.........that was good, too........ :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

:cloud9: Mickiel, you are on a roll with this one.........that was good, too........ :thumbsup:

Well yes, God is a Jealous God, but his jealously is not human. When a human mate is jealous, they will use their power to " Do things", often violent things. I think some of us expect God to react like that and violently rip us away from our Loves. He will do no such thing, Gods jealously is respectful, intelligent, full of reason and wisdom, goodness and self control, all reasons he willnot interfere with our Loves.

We get in emotional uproars, then cry out to God to help us, 5 minutes later we get a call and we are led like a Pied Piper of emotion, down the path we have just prayed and asked for help on. Because thats what we really want to do, and its more powerful than God in us. Its simular to additction, we just can't control ourselves. God willnot intervene in addiction until we reach a point that he can reconize as submission to him, and not to your addiction. He will substain you and still feed you, give you life. But until he sees in your heart of hearts, that their is a submission to him, IN your addiction, he willnot intervene. Unless like I have said, your foolishness will impact something that he does not want impacted.

I don't think many properly understand this. God has the power to pull any of us out of anything at any time, does he, no he does not. Now I don't believe in free will, but I believe in " Blockade Will", the human will just blocking God. It blocks God, not because God is not forceful, but because he is respectful and Patient, Kind and Gentle, and  very Longsuffering with our ignorance. God can wait 50 years for you to stop smoking, but he could stop you himself in .00 seconds.

So theres a lot of " Grey Area" between at what point God intervenes, and what point it is God doing things and not you, and you doing things and not God. And our emotions is certainly full of grey area, which by that I mean we can't really be sure what is God and what is us. And its just going to take a whole lot of time to work it out for two reasons, Gods Patience and our ignorance. Our relutance to let things go.

In our ignorance, we will reason to support our Loves, our Emotions, even to the Point that we will involve God. It goes something like this; I Love him, and God wants me to Love him. I Love this alcohol and its no sin to drink, God said so. I Love smoking, its not good for my body, but God will substain my body. God wants my family to stay together, even if my husband does not Love me and sleeps with other Women, I am showing God that I will remain faithful through this. And this pathology goes on and on. And we need to pray for our friends who suffer through these kinds of things, its not an easy thing to endure.

Peace.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That is all so true......... :thumbsup:

[Stardust75]

Mickiel,

I am responding to your post in response to mine. I will not discredit what you stated, but I think it limits God a bit...and that we really can't do. The bible is full of examples of God intervening to break idoltarous relationships and take first place in our hearts. Really, I don't think we can judge when or how God will act...in this life or the next. I definately agree that He works with our will first. He definatley wants us to willingly give them up, but He also allows circumstances to get our attention! So, maybe we are agreeing just different perspectives..

[Stardust75]

Mickiel,
you stated:
Well yes, God is a Jealous God, but his jealously is not human. When a human mate is jealous, they will use their power to " Do things", often violent things. I think some of us expect God to react like that and violently rip us away from our Loves. He will do no such thing, Gods jealously is respectful, intelligent, full of reason and wisdom, goodness and self control, all reasons he willnot interfere with our Loves.

Now correct me if I am wrong..but God appeared to be quite violent in the OT in his dealings with false gods in israel and other nations for  that matter. Tearing down images, shrines, commanding women and children to be killed, etc...

What you are saying does not line up with what the bible says.

Do not get me wrong, or misunderstand me to think that it is ok for humans to act in such ways or that God would condone that. Just that God is far from reserved in His expression of jealousy in the bible. I could take this many ways and express many philosophical approaches and get into imagery and allegories and such. But let's face it...at first look God is far, far, far from being a gentleman when it comes to such things.

[Mickiel]

[quote author=Stardust75 link=topic=2211.msg22433#msg22433


Now correct me if I am wrong..but God appeared to be quite violent in the OT in his dealings with false gods in israel and other nations for  that matter. Tearing down images, shrines, commanding women and children to be killed, etc...

What you are saying does not line up with what the bible says.

Do not get me wrong, or misunderstand me to think that it is ok for humans to act in such ways or that God would condone that. Just that God is far from reserved in His expression of jealousy in the bible. I could take this many ways and express many philosophical approaches and get into imagery and allegories and such. But let's face it...at first look God is far, far, far from being a gentleman when it comes to such things.

[/quote]


Well your looking at the Old covenant, and yes, God did a whole lot of violence back then, now if your view of God looks to stay in the Old Covenant, then yes, it will allow the picture of God you are trying to present. But now if your view looks to grow beyond the old covenant view of God, then show me your view of God in the New Covenant. Where is that God you look to present in the New Testement, or the Times of Christ. Did Christ act that way?

Does God act in the New as he did in the Old? No he does not. God is distancing  himself from humanity and allowing Christ to establish a different approach towards humanity. Now if you think God does not conduct himself like a Gentleman, well then thats your view of God. I don't consider God as a violent being, nor do I see his nature as impulsive or angry. Nor do I try to view him with Old testement eyes.

Its almost as if your trying to say , in human expression, that God " Is no Angel", he has his bad ways. Well God is greater and more Good and Pure than any Angel. But I am not trying to change your view of God, nor do I try to pull people out of the Old Covenant into the New, you stay where your comfortable. The pattern in the bible that I see is God moving away from the hardcore approach, and moving into an age of Grace and tolerance, now thats what I see. Then he moves back to the opening of the 7 seals, and things get more violent than ever before, and never will again.

So where we are now, is the tolerant age of God, where he allows humans to do as they please.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Mickiel,

I am responding to your post in response to mine. I will not discredit what you stated, but I think it limits God a bit...and that we really can't do. The bible is full of examples of God intervening to break idoltarous relationships and take first place in our hearts. Really, I don't think we can judge when or how God will act...in this life or the next. I definately agree that He works with our will first. He definatley wants us to willingly give them up, but He also allows circumstances to get our attention! So, maybe we are agreeing just different perspectives..

Well I too will respond to each of your post. And I am not trying to discredit what you say either. God did intervene in many ways of men, but I am of the view that he no longer does those things nearly as much as he did before. No longer calls near as many prophets, no longer vists the earth in no manner as much as he did. No longer gives physical displays of his power as much as he did, no longer speaks to humanity as much as he did. That is a flow of his behavior we can defintely guage and not be judging him.

Jesus said no more signs will be given, and I think that is a discription of his Fathers planned behavior which we can judge as the truth concerning how God will dispensate now during our days. Now if I take the aittitude towards God, that I will keep doing things that are harmful to me, until he gives me a sign to stop, you think Gods approach towards me would be to intervene with a sign?

No Stardust, it is wiser to show me that I am expecting things from him, desiring him to stop me with his force, rather than to teach me about what I am doing and Why I am doing it. It is wiser to educate the human, rather than to stop them in their tracks with force or more troubles or add more pain and suffering. We add enough pain and suffering to ourselves by our own will, than God does through his will.

The chastening of God is always educational and lends toward renewing, not towards excuses to keep doing what we are to harm ourselves. When we do not repent or change, that is evidence that God has NOT intervened, we are still on our will, not his. In this manner, how we Live is the evidence of Gods intervention.

Peace.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I saw his post as completely different, apparently. I have been thru some of those changes he talks about, the wanting to be free, yet emotions rising up and bringing me into bondage again, and God allowing it for another season, because I didn't want it with my WHOLE heart, so He let me have my fill of it until I was ready to seek His perfect will for my life. I didn't mean to agree to or imply in any way that we can judge where anyone is in their relationship to others in their life, because we don't know what God is having them walk out  or why, unless He specifically tells us. Blessings to all......

[Stardust75]

Mickiel,
I understand some aspects of what you are saying. I also agree that God's chastening is to educate and reform. He has more than one way of doing so. The only part I'm really disagreeing with you on is saying that God does not intervene and right now God is letting people do whatever they want. Mankind has always had the freedom to choose an do what they want..God picks whatever consequences He sees fit. I don't think that has changed today. I also still believe He speaks today..maybe not in a loud audible voice..I certainly know He communicates with me, I may not understand the message right away, but I certainly know He speaks and intervenes. I also think that just because a person does not change does not prove that God has not intervened in their life, they could just be rebellious, or just not quite aware yet.
I hope I was not sounding argumentative with you, I apologize if I did. I just do not completely agree on your views of God's intervention. I do not think we can put Him in a box as such, He can intervene in any person's life anyway He seems fit. He is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. I hope no contention was forming here and we can agree to disagree.

[Mickiel]

Mickiel,
I understand some aspects of what you are saying. I also agree that God's chastening is to educate and reform. He has more than one way of doing so. The only part I'm really disagreeing with you on is saying that God does not intervene and right now God is letting people do whatever they want. Mankind has always had the freedom to choose an do what they want..God picks whatever consequences He sees fit. I don't think that has changed today. I also still believe He speaks today..maybe not in a loud audible voice..I certainly know He communicates with me, I may not understand the message right away, but I certainly know He speaks and intervenes. I also think that just because a person does not change does not prove that God has not intervened in their life, they could just be rebellious, or just not quite aware yet.
I hope I was not sounding argumentative with you, I apologize if I did. I just do not completely agree on your views of God's intervention. I do not think we can put Him in a box as such, He can intervene in any person's life anyway He seems fit. He is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. I hope no contention was forming here and we can agree to disagree.

Well no contention is forming in me, so you can be assured of that, why should I contend, just because someone disagrees with me? I could be just as wrong as anyonelse, however I stand on what I believe is right. I disagree that God will intervene in a persons life and they willnot change, such is a real limiting of Gods power. Listen, When God intervenes, that means their no longer is a choice for the person, they will then do what God wants done, or change where God wants change. Divine intervention does not involve human choice, and I really cannot understand why you cannot see this.

I think what you are not seeing is that intervention from God means that God will "  Now Act" on the matter himself, not " Ask" the human if he can get in on the action, or still give them a choice in the action, he now is moving in on it himself, you see. It no longer matters to him what the human has done or will do, now its a matter of what HE will do about it.

I also disagree that God is speaking to humans today, I disagree with that. Only the Holy Spirit is interceeding and communicating with humanity today, and I reject  the claims of any who claim the Spirit is speaking to them now. I do not see that occuring as of yet. I believe the Holy Spirit is " Influencing People", but thats it, and I will go no further into that matter. I have already made perfectly clear to this place how I am led to see that matter. And I am finished with my sharing of that, I will only mention it in such cases as this, when someonelse brings it up. God is not communicating with people, and the Holy Spirit may be communicating with people, and it is not speaking to them in any kind of voice. It appeals directly to the mind, no verbal acoustics are even nesecerary, that is just an emotional human reaction that fulfills a physcological need.

When God intervenes, the matter is now super powered and will come to its end or beginning. When God intervenes you now enter into the conclusion of the matter. It will stop. It won't drag on for years and years, or take a lot of time. That is evidence that God has NOT intervened. We have to learn to discern Gods Pressence. It is powerful and Mighty, and that pressence is not on this earth now. Its not in a church now, its not in a group of people now. If it was, EVERYONE would see it, both believer and unbeliever. And when God intervenes in ANY area of your Life, it will THEN change, not later down the road, RIGHT THEN and there!

But you see, when have cried " Holy Spirit Wolf" so much, we have convinced ourselves so much that God has intervened, when he has not,our only experience with his intervention is made up in our minds. And this is another way that we deny the Power of God. We have constructed our own " Images", our own views of God, the groups we frequent have unerlaterally accepted those views, and we go merrily along that accepted path, not really knowing the true Power of God. We will claim that he talks to us, annointed us, placed all kinds of things within us,  and then we wonder why we are experiencing all kinds of troubles. We suppossedly have all these marvelous " Spiritual Things" inside of us, and we sin just as much or more than unbelievers. Yet we violently defend our Image.

And this is why so many of us will loose Love right along with this world. We went grocery shopping in the Bible, and " Took" all that we could take, and established ourselves. But the characther established by self willnot stand up under pressure, the characther established by God never fails. And there is a difference.

Peace.

[Molly]

Mickiel,
I understand some aspects of what you are saying. I also agree that God's chastening is to educate and reform. He has more than one way of doing so. The only part I'm really disagreeing with you on is saying that God does not intervene and right now God is letting people do whatever they want. Mankind has always had the freedom to choose an do what they want..God picks whatever consequences He sees fit. I don't think that has changed today. I also still believe He speaks today..maybe not in a loud audible voice..I certainly know He communicates with me, I may not understand the message right away, but I certainly know He speaks and intervenes. I also think that just because a person does not change does not prove that God has not intervened in their life, they could just be rebellious, or just not quite aware yet.
I hope I was not sounding argumentative with you, I apologize if I did. I just do not completely agree on your views of God's intervention. I do not think we can put Him in a box as such, He can intervene in any person's life anyway He seems fit. He is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. I hope no contention was forming here and we can agree to disagree.

The bottom line for me is he keeps me alive to see another day--in spite of myself.

I was walking through a parking lot the other day in my usual 'out of it' frame of mind.  Thinking about other things, as usual.  When suddenly I 'heard' a voice in my head which said, 'Don't walk behind old men in sportscars.'  It was such an odd message that I stopped short and then noticed I was within an inch or two of walking behind a sports car.  I looked forward to the driver's seat and there was --an old man.  At that point, the old man revved his engine in reverse and roared out of his parking space, missing me by inches.  He hadn't seen me.  And, I almost hadn't seen him.

God is good--and funny, too-- LOL.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: LOL, yes He is Molly........ :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

Well again, this is an example of the Spirit appealing directly to the mind, not some verbal voice that you ears can hear. When the mind is appealed to, the ears hear nothing, and this is how I believe the Spirit will influence, there is no need for Audio sound. Such is the Power of God.

When John was on the Island of Patmos, his mind was taken to a " Spiritual Vision", in his mind he both saw and heard things. Everything he needed to see and hear was supplied to his Mind. And this is how the Spirit will influence us, and its how the bible will influence us. We don'y audibily hear the bible with sound, but it speaks to our minds. The Spirit is no different.

Peace.]

[Molly]

I have heard a verbal voice that my ears heard in the past.  A voice that is outside of me.  Maybe I have just become more sensitive to it?  Or sometimes maybe he really needs to get my attention.



1 Kings 19:12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.


The paraclete is a helper.  Roman soldiers always fought in pairs, so that one could watch the other's back.  The modern airforce has a wingman who watches the back of the plane in front.  While the plane in front is fighting the enemy, the wingman keeps him safe from attack out of his line of 'sight.'  The paraclete is our 'wingman,'  watching our back,-- giving us our wings.


15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. --John 14





"Comforter"

G3875
παράκλητος
paraklētos
par-ak'-lay-tos
An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good........loved the wingman  :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

Well again my sense of the matter, and this not to take away from the experiences of others, when God establishes contact with someone, that means that he prior established none. No contact is an establishment by God also. Understand that. When God does not comminucate, that means he has established no communication. I think once God has established communication, he will then continue to communicate from that point onward. Conversely, when he has not established communication, he will continue in that direction until he does establish it. But when he breaks that plane, then he will always communicate, or be present.

When God comes to the earth, that will break the plane, or the gulf " Fixed" between him and humanity, and he will then always be with humanity and continue in that path. I think the giving of the Holy Spirit is simular, once it is given, that breaks a gulf that was previously " Fixed" between God and the human. The veil that was " Rendered  into" was a breaking of a fixed plane. I think it is simular with God and how he personally communicates, he has " Fixed" or established first, no communication , and he then goes from that reality into another, if he has established contact with a human. But the Holy Spirit is represenitive of God, it is not God himself. God can contact a human through the Spirit, but that still is a " Go between", it is not God himself.

God has 7 Spirits, and thus 7 ways he can communicate to a human, without speaking directly to them. He only uses 1 of those Spirits to communicate with humanity, which we know as the Holy Spirit. And I have been studying this, its a most difficult study. Humanity is not open to communicate with any other Spirit of God, except the Holy Spirit. We are not privy to Gods other Spirits, they have nothing to do with us. Which is perhaps a good thing, we are going wild over just the thought of one of his Spirits.

When John described Gods Throne, he said he saw " 24 other Thrones" around Gods Throne. A Regal setting at best, and he said he " Heard and Saw" flashes of Lightning and Sounds of Thunder." He goes on to write the entire book of Revelations, and in very graphic detail. From this we can know several things. When God decides to, he can appeal directly to the mind, and yes you can hear his voice. John heard both God, Jesus and Angels speak, during this " Vision." But it was a Vision, not a dream, not an emotional inspiration. The Vision took some time, it was not an ethereal " Quickie." It was specfic and authentic, which is how God is when he communicates. The Communication last, it is filled with Power, it is crystal clear and specfic. It was not a 7 second phone call.  I am tempted to go into to that, but I don't want to get too far off topic.

Peace.