The God I Know

[hopeful]

Transponder says in bold type:

And what do you know? Let me put it another way; when you hear of a god that wants people to pray five times a day or one that needs offerings of clarified butter or perhaps one that doesn't think his priests should marry or another that considers prawns forbidden food, do you think 'yes-that's the one I know.' or is this 'god' a bit more non-specific?

Well, Transponder, to be honest, I don't think a lot about other people's idea of God.  I'm focused on my relationship with Him.  That might sound selfish but my little world is complex enough without me trying to analyze others'. I'm not a student of religion, although I have observed much of it first hand whether I liked it or not.   :happygrin:

My relationship with God doesn't involve rules of do and don't.  It's a relationship/friendship.  He speaks to me and we talk.  We do things together. But He's a very powerful friend and He has changed me. I feel Him inside me and around me, too. So in that respect, I also hold Him as Lord.  I once was a drug dealer and a thief who was filled with all kinds of destructive thoughts and outward harm toward others.  I was addicted to illegal drugs and alcohol also but He delivered me from all these things in a twinkling of an eye!   :myahoo:  I was then filled with love, light and joy!  (A great exchange!) Everything looked brighter and my heart sang with hope!  And then He began to talk to me and we've been talking ever since.  It's been an incredible 28 year friendship where He lives in and through me!  Me!?  Whew!  Amazing!

God is also very nurturing toward me- the only nurturing I can remember, so in that sense I hold Him respectfully and with honor as a parent.  I ask a lot of Him without ever having to worry about over burdening Him. He's supernatural, so He never runs out of strength, energy or power!  His love toward me is something I feel even more powerfully than the love other people show toward me.  His love is more real to me than anything! 

Transponder said:

I would like to hear about the 'god' you have in your head, not so much to debate you out of believing in it, but trying to see how this god-U-know relates to the God and Jesus of the Bible.

I find it interesting  how you put 'God' in quotation marks and with a lower case 'g'.  To me, that would be like me putting your closest friend in that low of a category- as if he/she is just an imaginary friend of yours that doesn't really exist or even deserve to be capitalized.  Trans, God is as real to me as your closest friend is to you- possibly more so.  I am very close to my husband; he's my second closest friend but God is closer because He knows my thoughts and He is always with me.  My husband isn't.  As to God being in my head, I suppose He is!  He's in every part of me! :thumbsup:

Transponder said:

I can see it coming - "Well of course it is the JesusGod of the Bible, not because that is the one I was taught about but because that is the true one".

Trans, I would lovingly encourage you to not be so quick to "see it coming" from people and thus put words in their mouth. You might end up with more happy surprises that way!   :girlheart:

If you really are interested in religion as a hobby, more people are apt to kindly help you with your hobby if you hold a respectful attitude toward what is precious to them. 

God is my life and He is precious. You're precious, too, Trans!

:HeartThrob:

Hopeful/Holly

[Transponder]

Transponder says in bold type:

And what do you know? Let me put it another way; when you hear of a god that wants people to pray five times a day or one that needs offerings of clarified butter or perhaps one that doesn't think his priests should marry or another that considers prawns forbidden food, do you think 'yes-that's the one I know.' or is this 'god' a bit more non-specific?

Well, Transponder, to be honest, I don't think a lot about other people's idea of God.  I'm focused on my relationship with Him.  That might sound selfish but my little world is complex enough without me trying to analyze others'. I'm not a student of religion, although I have observed much of it first hand whether I liked it or not.   :happygrin:

My relationship with God doesn't involve rules of do and don't.  It's a relationship/friendship.  He speaks to me and we talk.  We do things together. But He's a very powerful friend and He has changed me. I feel Him inside me and around me, too. So in that respect, I also hold Him as Lord.  I once was a drug dealer and a thief who was filled with all kinds of destructive thoughts and outward harm toward others.  I was addicted to illegal drugs and alcohol also but He delivered me from all these things in a twinkling of an eye!   :myahoo:  I was then filled with love, light and joy!  (A great exchange!) Everything looked brighter and my heart sang with hope!  And then He began to talk to me and we've been talking ever since.  It's been an incredible 28 year friendship where He lives in and through me!  Me!?  Whew!  Amazing!

God is also very nurturing toward me- the only nurturing I can remember, so in that sense I hold Him respectfully and with honor as a parent.  I ask a lot of Him without ever having to worry about over burdening Him. He's supernatural, so He never runs out of strength, energy or power!  His love toward me is something I feel even more powerfully than the love other people show toward me.  His love is more real to me than anything!

This is not unfamiliar. I have also had this relationship with the voice in my head with which I commune, debate, reason, discuss and share my life. It is me. This thing about a life being transformed by Faith/religion/conversion is always a tricky one. I have no personal experience of it since any tendency to be "a drug dealer and a thief who was filled with all kinds of destructive thoughts and outward harm toward others" was negated by a sense of my place in human society and responsibility towards other. 

Transponder said:

I would like to hear about the 'god' you have in your head, not so much to debate you out of believing in it, but trying to see how this god-U-know relates to the God and Jesus of the Bible.

I find it interesting  how you put 'God' in quotation marks and with a lower case 'g'.  To me, that would be like me putting your closest friend in that low of a category- as if he/she is just an imaginary friend of yours that doesn't really exist or even deserve to be capitalized.  Trans, God is as real to me as your closest friend is to you- possibly more so.  I am very close to my husband; he's my second closest friend but God is closer because He knows my thoughts and He is always with me.  My husband isn't.  As to God being in my head, I suppose He is!  He's in every part of me! :thumbsup:

I understand your views but my use of the small g is deliberate to make a distinction between what references the God of the Bible (what unequivically is,sich as references to God in the Bible, religious texts and debates) and what is not neccessarily that God, such as the first cause, the god-concept as applied to various religions, and the voice that people have in their heads. It is not meant to be demeaning, but is neccesarily avoiding making unverifiable assumptions about such things.

Transponder said:

I can see it coming - "Well of course it is the JesusGod of the Bible, not because that is the one I was taught about but because that is the true one".

Trans, I would lovingly encourage you to not be so quick to "see it coming" from people and thus put words in their mouth. You might end up with more happy surprises that way!   :girlheart:

I love surprises! I am always willing to be told I'm wrong. Am I wrong here? You didn't say.

If you really are interested in religion as a hobby, more people are apt to kindly help you with your hobby if you hold a respectful attitude toward what is precious to them. 

God is my life and He is precious. You're precious, too, Trans!

:HeartThrob:

Hopeful/Holly

I don't mind whether people help me or not. I cannot be morally blackmailed into adopting a respectful attitude to what people hold precious to the extent of amending what I believe to be true because some might be offended. I try to be respectful to people whatever their beliefs but, if I think something to be so, such as the voice in the head being 'god' rather than Biblegod, or the likelihood that the voice is identified with Biblegod because of cultural programming - if not contact with some evangelical operation) then I have to say so.

(edited today to take my comments out of quote)

[firstborn888]

Trans,
   You're 'voice in your head' comments are interesting because 'voices' can range all the way from simple conscience to schizophrenia, and so proves nothing. From your perspective it seems you assume that you've heard the same voice that many attribute to God, but you didn't react the way someone with a predisposition toward it being the voice of God would.
   May I ask what you've heard that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?
  blessings,
  - Byron   

[Loveroftruth]

Hopeful Wrote

Well, Transponder, to be honest, I don't think a lot about other people's idea of God.  I'm focused on my relationship with Him.  That might sound selfish but my little world is complex enough without me trying to analyze others'. I'm not a student of religion, although I have observed much of it first hand whether I liked it or not.   happygrin

My relationship with God doesn't involve rules of do and don't.  It's a relationship/friendship.  He speaks to me and we talk.  We do things together. But He's a very powerful friend and He has changed me. I feel Him inside me and around me, too. So in that respect, I also hold Him as Lord.  I once was a drug dealer and a thief who was filled with all kinds of destructive thoughts and outward harm toward others.  I was addicted to illegal drugs and alcohol also but He delivered me from all these things in a twinkling of an eye!   Yahoo  I was then filled with love, light and joy!  (A great exchange!) Everything looked brighter and my heart sang with hope!  And then He began to talk to me and we've been talking ever since.  It's been an incredible 28 year friendship where He lives in and through me!  Me!?  Whew!  Amazing!

God is also very nurturing toward me- the only nurturing I can remember, so in that sense I hold Him respectfully and with honor as a parent.  I ask a lot of Him without ever having to worry about over burdening Him. He's supernatural, so He never runs out of strength, energy or power!  His love toward me is something I feel even more powerfully than the love other people show toward me.  His love is more real to me than anything!

Wonderful post sister  :HeartThrob: :girlheart:

[hopeful]

Thanks, Christine.  :HeartThrob:

Being asked to tell someone about the God I know is a privilege but fitting a 28 year relationship into just one post isn't easy.   :Sparkletooth:

[hopeful]

I love surprises! I am always willing to be told I'm wrong. Am I wrong here? You didn't say.

Hi, transponder. 

I'm not into telling people whether they are right or wrong.  I can't live in peace with all men when I do that.  I might ask someone to refrain from doing something though.

:HeartThrob:

[Transponder]

Trans,
   You're 'voice in your head' comments are interesting because 'voices' can range all the way from simple conscience to schizophrenia, and so proves nothing. From your perspective it seems you assume that you've heard the same voice that many attribute to God, but you didn't react the way someone with a predisposition toward it being the voice of God would.
   May I ask what you've heard that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?
  blessings,
  - Byron   

That's true, but the fact that they all occur 'in the head' would indicate, would it not, that it all emanates from the head? In fact, even before I had heard of the studies on 'voices' which indicated a mental origin, reading deconversion stories gave me quite a lot of evidence that  - as one deconvert put it in a way that I regard as summing it all up - "I thought for so long that I was talking to God, but I realized in the end that I was just talking to myself". 

However, I do recall that I said to Hopeful that I wanted to hear about her god not to argue her out of it but to find out why she thinks this 'god' is to be identified with the God (or one of them) of the Bible. So I shall ask her. 

[Transponder]

I love surprises! I am always willing to be told I'm wrong. Am I wrong here? You didn't say.

Hi, transponder. 

I'm not into telling people whether they are right or wrong.  I can't live in peace with all men when I do that.  I might ask someone to refrain from doing something though.

:HeartThrob:

:winkgrin: I am asking to you to back up your comment here - "Trans, I would lovingly encourage you to not be so quick to "see it coming" from people and thus put words in their mouth. You might end up with more happy surprises that way!   :girlheart:"

by answering my query "I love surprises! I am always willing to be told I'm wrong. Am I wrong here?"

Wrong about my guess as to what I saw coming - that you know the god in your head is the God of the Bible, not because you were told it was or because it told you it was, but because you just knew it, or assumed it. If I am wrong here I would have a better understanding of how people make this leap from universal creator to Biblegod because this god in the head is identified with Biblegod and the god in the head must be the creator.

That to me is a circular argument based on three big assumptions. But I would like to know it if I am wrong - and you would be helping me if you could - shall we say - further explain the subject of the thread - by telling me

(a) how you know your god in the head (I am using the term advisedly for clarity of identification) is to be identified specifically with the God of the Bible.

(b) Or whether it could be a more general god that could also be known, mentally, to persons of other religions and assumed by them to identified with the god as described in their Holy Books

(c) whether the circumstances of conversion (partially described by you) involved others encouraging you to turn to Biblegod (or Jesusgod, as some say) for assistance with your problems.

I realize that this may be a personal matter for you (though you were almost eager to detail the former lifestyle from which you turned, thanks to God) and I am not going to jump on anything you might say with 'Aha-that proves it's all in the head'. Your convictions are your own. I am Just curious - indeed, it is need-to-know information - about how the voice in the head is so easily identified with Biblegod.

[Redlettervoice]

Hopeful, I just now Sunday morn read what you said here:

I'm not into telling people whether they are right or wrong.  I can't live in peace with all men when I do that.  I might ask someone to refrain from doing something though.

Wisdom.  The only "time" one should do that is when GOD has told them to. And I sure
am glad He has ways of telling that to people besides ME doing it.  I am like you, I
can't live in peace doing that.  I see lots of things, and I think: "He looked beyond my
faults and saw my needs" Besides I know that God has set this thing UP so that in
each of our lives, circumstances are used by Him to teach us all.

I want to turn on the Light, not point out the dark! 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good post, Hopeful......... :thumbsup:

[hopeful]

Sorry, Trans, but you're asking the wrong girl!  :tease:

Just reading your last post makes me dizzy! :ghaha: 

Dizzy or not, I read through it a few times and asked the Lord if I should try and reply but He's given me nothing to answer.
Maybe someone else would enjoy trying to answer you. 
Have a great day!

:boogie:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi Trans, good to "see" you again. I'll answer your "a,b,c's" there with my part of my initial testimony experience with God. This is going to be on the long side, so please bear with me. But every word of it is the truth, believe it or not.

:cloud9: I was not church raised, my father was an athiest or an agnostic, depending I think, on his mood that day. My mother was raised Catholic, but was a non-practicing one, as my Father had a particular hatred of Catholics and Jews, so he converted her to his state of unbelief in anything higher than himself. So my point is, I was about the blankest slate you could ever hope to write on in the middle of the Bible belt here. I had never read the Bible, nor did I believe it was God inspired having been told all my life it was not, or if it was, knowing the tendencies of men, I figured it was majorly tampered with and impossible to know what He really said. Yet I hungered for Truth, something to believe in, anything viable, all of my life to that point. The good part of this dismal beginning is, I also had no doctrines at all to tear down, no preconceived ideas of anything.

:cloud9: I was just short of my 30th birthday and my life was quite literally hell. I had just witnessed my best friend being attacked in the process of being possessed by a demon, and in addition to that I was miserable in a destructive marriage, and now I am quite literally keeping her company running from nightly demonic attacks. I would not have left my worst enemy to suffer that alone, and though terrified myself, I would not leave her to face it alone, either.

:cloud9: Though a very strong willed and fearless individual all my life up to that fateful night, I am now cowering under lights all night, afraid to go to sleep until daylight, even afraid to walk thru the dark to get in my car. This took a toll on the night-time paralegal classes I was enrolled in, as I had missed 2 weeks of them after this happened for the above reason. I just knew I would never make it home alive if I went, and I was right.

:cloud9: I had to go finally because 13 days after the experience I had to take a final exam. The classes were taught by lawyers, there were no textbooks on purpose, it was all notes from class or nothing and the exams were 3 and 1/2 hour long essay tests; all test cases in which you would have to determine who would win the case based on the applicable laws and by-laws, and needless to say if you missed 2 weeks of classes you were looking at failing the exam because you did not have the instruction on the section of law covered.  :sigh:

:cloud9: So I am a basket case for all of the above, seeing my A- average about to fall to flunking out of the program and it's not like I can go tell the lawyer instructor why I missed classes, without the certainty of being sent to the funny farm. :laughing7: So on the way there, terrified of the dark, at the lowest point in my life, I cried out to the "unknown" God. I had no idea of any salvation doctrine, never heard of it. Didn't know if Jesus could actually help me, as to me, though I did believe He was probably the son of God just from watching the old biblical movies, to me He was nothing more than a historical person who lived.

:cloud9: It had to be the Spirit of God prompting me, because near the end of this hour plus long trip of crying, outlining all of my insurmountable problems, not the least of which imagining a future life of being in constant fear, I remembered later saying, "And Jesus, IF you can do anything, I want You to come into my heart and take over my life because I don't care if I live another day, I can't live like this." I immediately calmed down, and pulled it together somehow for the last 20 minutes of the drive.

:cloud9: I went into the class, took the exam of which I found out I had missed a full third of the exam content. The funny thing was, I wrote for 3 and 1/2 hours, and could not tell you what I wrote when I was done. And I got a B+ on the exam, which when you consider there were 100 students and only 5 to 6 A's given per exam due to the extremely hard grading curve, that was a flat out impossibility for someone who did not have 1/3 of the materials to begin with. That was my first miracle.

:cloud9: The second one was the drive home. I lived to tell about it, that was the miracle. I had by now, a too familiar visitor, who plastered itself on the roof of my car and then hung it's head over the windshield right in front of my face. Now I had been begging the "unknown" God for the past 13 days not to ever let me see it's face again, because I told Him I knew if I did, I would lose my mind. But before that happened, when I got in my car that night, it ran just fine about 4 blocks, just enough to get me into a bad section of Indy, and then sputtered and quit for no apparent reason; it had been fine before this.

:cloud9: The only prayer I knew was the Lord's prayer I had learned from my grandmother who made me say it every night when I was staying with her, unbeknownest to my Father. I said the Lord's prayer, because I could feel the presence already of the demon and knew it had done something to my car. The car started up, after I said this prayer a few times, and off I drove, only to be confronted, quite literally head on. The Lord had mercy upon me, because I did not see the details I had in the hotel room the night she was attacked, but instead saw a dark form only. But it was still terrifying, and had I seen IT right in front of my face suddenly, I probably would have run off the road and been killed.

:cloud9: So I continued praying the Lord's prayer all the way home. When I got home, since I had had to tell my mother and my husband what had happened in that hotel room and all things after that, when my husband got home from work about 10 minutes after I did, I told him somewhat calmly, that he needed to check my car as the demon had messed with it on my way home. He gave me that same strained testy look I had been getting from everyone I tried to tell what had happened to me to make me stay up all night cowering under lights, and went out to look under the hood. At that point, no one believed me, but my friend who had experienced it herself with me. So he comes in testier than ever in five minutes and asks me just how did I get home, who brought me? I said, I drove home. He argued with me I couldn't have. I said, the engine's still hot isn't it? He said, there's no way you got home in that car, every spark plug has been tampered with, it won't even turn over. I responded cheerfully as only someone who had finally been vindicated could, I TOLD you the demon did it.  :happygrin:

:cloud9: I'm sure plans were being made at that point to put me in a pudding farm  :winkgrin:. But it was nothing compared to what I was to experience next as God displayed His awesome power and saving grace. The next morning when I awoke, it was as though I was literally looking at the world for the first time. My room was bathed in a glorious light that was not natural as it was a darkened room. I was aware that I was sort of vibrating inside, unaware that the Word said He would quicken our mortal bodies, which means to speed them up. Add to that my spiritual eyes were opened, and later in the day I actually could see thru my body and behold my spiritual man which was composed of cells of light, all of which were vibrating really, really fast, and I had no sensation of body mass or weight at all. I woke up and had no desire to eat, but had never heard of a fast. I didn't eat the entire 10 days this anointing, which I also never heard of, was on me.

:cloud9:  And the "unknown" God was now speaking to me, as thoughts that I knew were not my thoughts, but I was unsure until the 3 day who it was that was speaking to me when it was so loud it seemed nearly audible. The most shocking thing about it was, it was days later before I beheld what He had spoken to me in a book I had never read, and it was verbatim! Even as a babe, there's no doubt when God speaks to you and you feel the washing of His Spirit pouring over you like water, and ever syllable He speaks seems to go right thru your mortal body.

:cloud9:  Still, I had no idea what it was that had happened to me. I literally thought I must be getting ready to have a nervous breakdown, but I couldn't understand if that was true, then how come I woke up with what could only be described as great joy, something I had never known before? And I also woke up with a desire to read the Bible, which I never had before and I read it for hours a day now, with understanding, sobbing thru the whole thing.

:cloud9:  This prompted my desire to know what my Baptist friend who was backslidden, but at least knew the Bible somewhat, thought about God, and even stranger, a sudden desire to ask her to take me to church with her on Sunday and this was Friday morning. The odd thing about that is I had always refused to go before, now I'm asking to, and even weirder I am totally unaware there's anything different about this request, it seemed perfectly normal to me.

:cloud9:  But I was anything but my normal self at that point. I was, quite literally, a different person in my attitudes and personality when I woke up, and it was obvious to everyone but me. But what WAS obvious to me were the inexplainable physical and perception changes I was experiencing. My mother, had no idea what was wrong with me, and became quite concerned when I told her what I was experiencing. I had to. She had just turned around in time to see me gingerly approaching the refrigerator with my hand, because of the fact I was only aware of my spirit man and had loss the sense of bodily mass, I was testing it to see if my hand would go thru solid objects. No, I am NOT kidding.  :mshock:

:cloud9:  So Sunday rolls around, and I go to church with my friend. On the way up there, I start asking her questions about how does she know she's going to heaven exactly, how could you know that? She begins to tell me the Baptist doctrine of salvation telling me you first go down in front of the church. I stop her right there and tell her I don't believe that God is a Baptist, LOL. She says no, you can have this experience anywhere, even by yourself you just pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart and forgive you your sins and take over your life. I literally had one of these moments..... :idea2: I said, well if that's true, then I did that Thursday nite on the way to paralegal class! She started crying and said I KNEW there was something different about you on Friday when you came to ask me to take you to church, but I didn't know what it was.

:cloud9:  So we go in her church, and as soon as the children's choir who started singing first, sang, I was reduced to a bawling mess. I continued to cry thru the ENTIRE service, unable to quit. After 15 minutes, my friend was crying too. At the end, the pastor asked for anyone to come forward for invitation. I felt immediately I was to go, but had no idea what that meant. After 4 calls for it, since it was painfully obvious to everyone in there, just WHO God was dealing with, the Spirit practically pushed me out of the pew. I asked my friend, I know I'm supposed to go down there, but what do I do when I get there? She told me she would go with me, and the backslidden Baptist found God again that day.

:cloud9:  From there we went to Indy, an 90 mile day trip. At 5 pm, the Lord spoke to me plainly telling me He wanted me to go to another woman's church I knew who rented a part of our business building we owned. There were 2 problems with this request. I didn't know where exactly the church was, the name of it, and it was 90 miles away. I told my friend what He said, and she agreed to take me there. I told her what exit to pull off on and I would look it up in the phone book, as I only remember the woman telling me her pastor's first name, and I thought there can't be too many pastor's with a Larry first name in a city of 50,000. Wrong. :laughing7: There were 3. I said, Lord, it's almost time for it to start, she said she won't go in late, and I've only got one chance to get her/us in the right church, so You better show me which Larry it is. And it was like the name lept off the page at me, and the church was only 4 blocks away. He had led me to the right exit.

:cloud9:  We go in, and I'm not sure if it's the right church until I see the woman I know, at the front on the organ. Sigh of relief, it's the right place. They are singing when we come in, in praise and worship. After a few minutes, my friend is freaking out bigtime, beating on my arm, telling me we have to get out of there. I am confused and ask her why, because I'm thinking, isn't this great? Yesterday I read Acts 2 and Joel and today He shows me there are still people experiencing these things almost 2000 years later! She, on the other hand, raised southern Baptist, is having a mini breakdown, telling me this is not of God, it's of Satan and spit, gag, THIS IS A PENTECOSTAL CHURCH! I am oblivious to the big picture here obviously and ask her, "What is a pentecostal church, I've never heard of that?"

:cloud9:  I defer to my new best friend. In my mind, I say, "God? She's known you a lot longer than I have. Is she right?" He said, "Didn't you read it in my Word yesterday?" I said, "Yes, Lord I did." I said to her, "Did you know it's in Acts 2 and Joel about this?" She was frustrated, and offered up another disclaimer. Again, I ask God. Again, comes the same answer. Again she offers up another rebuff, telling me she'll leave me there if I don't leave with her right now. I told her to go ahead, He wanted me there, I'm there and I'll walk 45 miles home if I have to, I'm not going anywhere. She sulks. The Lord said to me, "Tell her to take it out of my Word, if she dares." I tell her. She has been kept informed by me daily, what chapters I have read. She knows I have not read the book of Revelation yet. She turns white, and does not open her mouth again for the rest of the service. I'm not sure why at that point, but I am grateful for the break from her beating on my arm.  :winkgrin:

:cloud9:  The pastor gets up finally, and says he does not know what is going on, he had prepared his entire sermon that afternoon for 3 hours, and the Lord just told him he was not to speak on it, and he said I don't know where we are going, but we're going with the Lord today. And he began to speak on demons and deliverance, the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and the power of God, as if every word was tailored for us and what we had just been thru. There was no way he could have known. We were enraptured. At the end, he asked for anyone wanting more of God to come forward and raise their hands to receive. I was the first person up there, I nearly flew out of my seat. Towards the end I looked back to see what had happened to my friend, I figured this was too much for her and I had probably been dumped by now. To my surprise, she was standing in the back, arms raised, tears streaming down her face. That day she was no longer a southern Baptist.

:cloud9:  Now once I began to read the Word and identified scripture had dictated the outcome of what was my isolated experience, I reasoned that if that scripture were true, then maybe I should put another one to the test. So I read that we need not that any man should teach us, and that the Holy Spirit would teach us and bring all things to our remembrance, and I decided this would be the next one I would put to the test. So I asked the Lord to teach me thru His Spirit, not having a clue how that could or would be accomplished. It wasn't long before I discovered how. It took about 3 trips thru the NT to find out. As I read in one part of the book, another seemingly unconnected scripture would pop into my mind out of nowhere. When I would leave the first, to check out the second, to my amazement, they WERE connected in content even if that content was not readily visible. This happened over and over until one day it dawned on me (also a thought from God) that THIS is the beginning of how the Spirit teaches.

:cloud9:  It has been a long 22 year journey of amazing discoveries of the character, nature and power of God, but there has been no doubt in my mind, or in the minds of anyone that knew me before, that truly God is the author and the finisher of our faith. I am not the same person that existed prior to May 8th, 1986, nor would I ever want to be.

:cloud9:  My Catholic mother was brought to her knees to know the living God 30 days after I did, in part because she was confronted with someone she did not know anymore.........ME. My X husband, though he ultimately turned his back on Him as nearly 2000 years of idol worship in his family proved to be too strong a draw for him, nevertheless received Him 6 weeks after I did. The rest of my mother's large Catholic family received Him within 4 years of our conversion.

:cloud9:  I was used to lead my then 95 year old grandmother to the Lord, the weekend my mother received Him. My athiest father received him 2 months before he died, many years later. That was my one request and my first prayer to the Lord, was that He please save my father before he died. Myself and a longtime friend of his were used to do that as he lay in the hospital. I found out from this friend of his, that the Lord had had no less than 15 close friends surrounding him, that were born again Christians, planting seeds in his life for all those years leading up to his acceptance of the living God. Our God is faithful. Blessings to all who have waded thru this long post, LOL........

[Redlettervoice]

Card! It was NOT a "wade thru".......it was a reminder, I have known people that were
called to the specific ministry that YOU were, and they experienced some of these things.
Those things that we experience "but for a moment" work for us a GREAT and MIGHTY
Weight of HIS Glory!
And I myself have experieced that "quickening" in the body.  I knew what that was, tho
it was happening to me in my sleep.  Almost everything does. ha I guess the Lord has
to knock me out.  Enjoyed reading your journey and may God bless and keep you. For
you are blessing many people.  God is REAL!

[Molly]

That was a wonderful read, Cardinal.  I have also experienced many similar things, and different also.  I feel so privileged and blessed to have this wonderful friend.  When people say, "Jesus saves,"  they are not talking about some abstract thing in the future, they are talking about the here and now.  He literally and personally stepped in and  saved my life.

Like RED says, "God is Real"!


30 Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." --Luke 1

"JESUS"

G2424
Ἰησοῦς
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.

H3091
יהושׁע    יהושׁוּע
yehôshûa‛  yehôshûa‛
yeh-ho-shoo'-ah, yeh-ho-shoo'-ah
From H3068 and H3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (that is, Joshua), the Jewish leader: - Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare H1954, H3442.


H3467
ישׁע
yâsha‛
yaw-shah'
A primitive root; properly to be open, wide or free, that is, (by implication) to be safe; causatively to free or succor: -  X at all, avenging, defend, deliver (-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save (-iour), get victory.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Ladies, yes He is.........

[firstborn888]

Trans,
   You're 'voice in your head' comments are interesting because 'voices' can range all the way from simple conscience to schizophrenia, and so proves nothing. From your perspective it seems you assume that you've heard the same voice that many attribute to God, but you didn't react the way someone with a predisposition toward it being the voice of God would.
   May I ask what you've heard that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?
  blessings,
  - Byron   

That's true, but the fact that they all occur 'in the head' would indicate, would it not, that it all emanates from the head? In fact, even before I had heard of the studies on 'voices' which indicated a mental origin, reading deconversion stories gave me quite a lot of evidence that  - as one deconvert put it in a way that I regard as summing it all up - "I thought for so long that I was talking to God, but I realized in the end that I was just talking to myself". 

However, I do recall that I said to Hopeful that I wanted to hear about her god not to argue her out of it but to find out why she thinks this 'god' is to be identified with the God (or one of them) of the Bible. So I shall ask her. 

  Trans, the question I asked is was "May I ask what you've heard (in your head) that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?"
- byron

[Kratos]

This probably won't help anything, but I never hear the voice of God in my head. In fact, when I need wisdom, I often will pray in the spirit until the voices in my head stop so I can hear God's voice instead. Jesus said that "out of our bellies will flow rivers of living water". Maybe that is where I got it, but I believe that my spirit is located in my center or belly.

I know it sounds weird, but it is what it is. In intercession, you can experience groanings like labor pains. Heb. 4:12 talks about discerning between our soul and our spirit. Voices in our head are in the soul and can be the enemy. However, there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty gives us understanding. This wisdom or inspiration seems to seap up from the inside when the voices in the head are quieted.

John

[firstborn888]

This probably won't help anything, but I never hear the voice of God in my head. In fact, when I need wisdom, I often will pray in the spirit until the voices in my head stop so I can hear God's voice instead. Jesus said that "out of our bellies will flow rivers of living water". Maybe that is where I got it, but I believe that my spirit is located in my center or belly.

I know it sounds weird, but it is what it is. In intercession, you can experience groanings like labor pains. Heb. 4:12 talks about discerning between our soul and our spirit. Voices in our head are in the soul and can be the enemy. However, there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty gives us understanding. This wisdom or inspiration seems to seap up from the inside when the voices in the head are quieted.

John

Yes, that still small voice comes from somewhere a little deeper, doesn't it John?

- byron

[Loveroftruth]

great stuff everyone! Card, thanks for sharing your testimony - WOW  :HeartThrob:

I hear Gods voice many different ways. Sometimes it feels like my own thoughts yet it is a thought I would not usually have. Sometimes I will get a complete "Knowing or understanding " of something before me. Many times He speaks to me in pictures - I get these visual pictures (mostly for people) and when I explain what I see to the person it is something about their childhood or life. Sometimes I get this deep belly feeling of urgency to speak something.

God speaks in many ways, why? I think its His desire that we listen in all ways for that still small voice. It seems God is not much into routine  :laughing7:

PEACE and LOVE

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: What you are describing is exactly how He deals with me, LT, just add some dreams in there, and you've got the God I know....... :thumbsup:

[Loveroftruth]

:cloud9: What you are describing is exactly how He deals with me, LT, just add some dreams in there, and you've got the God I know....... :thumbsup:

Hehehehe, I was going to put dreams too but they are very seldom  :laughing7:
Why does it not surprise me that you get the same? Seems you and I are wired the same, same giftings and such? It would really be neat to meet you face to face one day  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, I believe we are. And I would love to meet everyone on here someday. By the grace of God maybe we will all get to meet one another in the flesh somehow. If not, for sure we have all met in the Spirit  :happygrin:

[Transponder]

Trans,
   You're 'voice in your head' comments are interesting because 'voices' can range all the way from simple conscience to schizophrenia, and so proves nothing. From your perspective it seems you assume that you've heard the same voice that many attribute to God, but you didn't react the way someone with a predisposition toward it being the voice of God would.
   May I ask what you've heard that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?
  blessings,
  - Byron   

That's true, but the fact that they all occur 'in the head' would indicate, would it not, that it all emanates from the head? In fact, even before I had heard of the studies on 'voices' which indicated a mental origin, reading deconversion stories gave me quite a lot of evidence that  - as one deconvert put it in a way that I regard as summing it all up - "I thought for so long that I was talking to God, but I realized in the end that I was just talking to myself". 

However, I do recall that I said to Hopeful that I wanted to hear about her god not to argue her out of it but to find out why she thinks this 'god' is to be identified with the God (or one of them) of the Bible. So I shall ask her. 

  Trans, the question I asked is was "May I ask what you've heard (in your head) that another with a predisposition toward God would interprete as being the voice of God?"
- byron

Everything. As Cardinal's fascinating account shows above, with the cultural pump-priming of the particular brand of Christianity available locally, the various mental activities that any of us have can easily be represented as the voice of God. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That might be so Trans, except for one thing. My mind could not quote several lines out of the OT which I had never read before, nor heard of, as He did 3 days after I met the God of the Book. Blessings to you........ :thumbsup:

[Transponder]

:cloud9: That might be so Trans, except for one thing. My mind could not quote several lines out of the OT which I had never read before, nor heard of, as He did 3 days after I met the God of the Book. Blessings to you........ :thumbsup:

I always get stumped by those who trot out a supposed miracle which proves the reality of something. It puts me on the back foot immediately as I am disinclined to cast doubt on a personal experience of that kind. It really puts me in the position of explaining away evidence in the same way that logical arguments to discount Astrology, Palmistry, Spirit mediums and the like fall flat before claims that an astrologer told her (so often 'her')  things about her grandmother's illness which the seer could not possibly have known, a palmist predicted events in her life which came about with astonishing accuracy, a spirit medium told her (ok, him, this time) where to find a hidden will...

And, though we hear various explanations of how these things, with a bit a retelling, sound more amazing, perhaps, than they actually were, it does leave the skeptic in the position of explaining away evidence.

What, I wonder, were these three lines from the OT? I am sure you remember. Are you quite sure that you could never have heard them before? You are really telling me that, in central Indiana, you never had the OT quoted at you, even in younger years that perhaps you forgot about?