The Dynamic of Loosing Love.

[Mickiel]

In Matthews 24:12 Again Jesus makes an interesting statement;" And because Lawlessness is increased, most peoples Love will grow " Cold." I was looking at this and it confused me for a second. I'm thinking, well what about peoples Love, is related to Law so much, that when Laws are being broken, it weakens their Love?  I'm thinking Love has nothing to do with Law and order, but the way Christ said this, one would think  Law and Love are interelated.

Well people are married according to Law, but then after the legal ceremony is over, what has Law to do with their relationship from then on, very little I would say. Some yes, but not much. Love is the weave that binds a Good relationship, and if you expand that into the neighborhood or the city, it certainly would help the atmosphere, and spread out of your house and into the community.

But The way Jesus makes this statement, and he was speaking about the end of the age of man, something about this time of man, will interelate Laws with Love. Because if Lawlessness increases and Love decreses, then they will be interelated. So, when we see a time that Love and Law are related, then we are seeing the last days.

What about breaking Laws, would cause Love in people to grow cold, or that is to say " Weaker?" How could Law, get into effecting Love? I mean if you think about that, does watching the news about crime and humans breaking the Laws, make your Love grow weaker? I don't think it makes mine weaker, but I'm trying to get with this scripture and understand it. And Jesus went as far as to say " Most people", so I think he was being serious, and this is a serious issue. I didnot think Law breaking had such and effect on Love, but I believe in Christ so much, I have learned not to doubt that he is right about something, but I understand that I need to get with HIS understanding of HIS statements. If I lean on my own understanding, then " Poof", it could blow up in my mind.

So I wanted to go into this strange relation between Love and Law.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

The dynamic of " Loosing Love" has been best expressed to me and my experience, by women, that is the best example that I am aware of through my personal observation. Its a heart wrenching thing to observe. Very sad and upsetting, yet very real and astute. It has been my unfortunate experience to have seen this more than once, and I have learned a great deal from it, sadly at the expense of several females in my life.

The ability of Love to possess someone to a degree that they don't want to loose it, is truly a thing to behold, something that has evaded me in my experience. I think woman is Gods finest creation by far, that I have seen, and yet Love has a way of " Comming out of Women", its expression is truly something that I personally covet, kind of makes me wish I could " Feel" that way about someone. I have known some women who would do almost anything to keep their man. If they thought they were going to loose him, they become highly emotional and unsettled. And I don't think that reaction is unique to just women alone, I have known men who get emotional and often violent, if they see themselves loosing their womans Love.

When a womans Love grows cold toward her man, then the air is just comming out of the ballon of the relationship. When Love grows cold, it is a dismal thing.  And I think that could " Cause" someone to break Laws, and start on a path of more Lawlessness. Which may well be the dynamic behind people who go on school campuses and start shooting others they don't even know. They either lost Love, never had it, or were loosing it, and it led to them loosing their minds. No Love from family, no Love from society, just no Love at all, espically none within themselves.

When Love grows cold in a society, that is just dangerous. Imagine the children born into such a society, just think of how this will effect them. You can't " Loose Love you never had in the first place."

When Love withdraws from you, the withdrawal that causes can be very severe. And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

And because Lawlessness is increased, most peoples Love  will grow Cold. A bold statement, inspiring just as bold thoughts.  And its good to be just as bold in our learning. I am often amused at how others look at my learning and the vehicles I use to learn, like " Fables." They can't seem to get to that, because they cannot see the knowledge in the vehicle. With this verse, Matt. 24:12, the vehicle of my learning is women. My curiousity is pricked by the scripture, the theme of the public loosing its Love, having its Love weakened by Lawlessness. I have to refer to what I know about it, which is not much, so I must learn. When you limit the learning vehicles in your mind, then you are not learning at your full potential.

When a woman Loves, its because she wants to, desires to, and sometimes the Love is not returned. So a woman loosing her Love, is a good approach to understanding what Christ was teaching on. Lawlessness will cause the Love of many to " Grow" cold. Get that, " Grow" cold, which means a continual process, a connected influence that " Feeds" the coldness. In 2 Thess.2:3;" Let no one in anyway deceive you, for it willnot come unless the Apostacy comes first, and the " Man of Lawlessness " be revealed, the son of destruction." Look at how this ties in with Christ statement of Love growing cold because of Lawlessness, then we have a " Man of Lawlessness", and these hold the ability to push influence in the direction that people start " Loosing their Love."

When a woman starts loosing her Love, she is being drained of something in her being. I have literally seen this before, you can literally see it comming out of her, she's being drained to dry, almost like a rasin, and the lost has her shirveled. Some have said that some people, when they die, you can see and hear them take their last breath, and you just know the life is gone. The woman had a lot of Love within her, now its comming out, like sorrowful sweat, it pours from within her being. Tears of saddness and reluctance to loose such a precious part of her being. Often not her fault, she withdraws and sighs as she crys her soul into submission of loosing her joy. Then she begins to " Grow Cold", as she sulks and sinks into why this had to be. And at this point, she can become very vulnerable to " Influence", weakened, she now must face the oncomming world without her Love.

And in this sense, we can compare the woman to soceity, and learn about What Christ was talking about.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

And in this sense, we can compare the woman to soceity, and learn about What Christ was talking about.

Peace.

When you remove any Love from a woman, you are removing an essential part of her essence, and she will reel from it. So it is with society, when Love is removed, you freeze an essential componant of it. And it will rock that soceity from its much needed balence. Laws may be instilled to restore that balance, but Love is also a Law, and if Love is not present, judical Law can only do so much to constrain people who are really reeling from a lack of Love. Love could control a mob, where even judical law or force couldnot. And so it is in marriage between two people. The pressence of Love is a far better peace maker and substainer than governmental Law.

In Matt. 24:10;" And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another." Here we see people falling away from one another, turning on one another. And hate entering into that mix. When a woman or a society is reeling with the Loosing of Love, they become vulnerable. Vs. 11;" And many false prophets will arise and will mislead many." Here we see other forces entering into this mix, trying to take advantage of the Woman, or the society. False prophets, a sure sign of something religious being involved. Women approach Religion much differently than men do, because they ARE different. And they react to loosing Love differently than men do. The mourning is far more intense.

In 2 Tim.3:5-6, we see how religion enters into this vulnerability;" A form of Godliness enters into the fray." For amoung them are those who enter into the households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses. Always learning and never able to come into the knowledge of the truth. Or you can say " Weak citys or states, weighed down by crime and turmoil", either applys. When Love is weakened, things are more opened to this invasion of forces that seek to disrupt and take advantage.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

You ever just watch a baloon loose its air? As the air is released, the baloon begins to change. Its being drained of its substance, and because of that, its undergoing a change. When women loose Love its a very simular thing. The woman can become unsettled and moody, cry a lot and gain or loose weight, even become sick. It changes her and the change can be both physical and emotional, and in some cases, mental. A man could go berserk and be brought to the point of killing. I once had a friend, who has since passed, but he was a very good freind, my best in life ever. He was the best man I have ever known. His name was William, and he was the most non violent, good man I have ever been with, and he was a man of God. I had walked with William for about 20 years, so I knew this man. God gave him an excellent Spirit about himself.

One day William met a woman. They dated, he spent a lot of money on her, he was really likeing this woman. Williams money ran out and she broke off the relationship. At least that was my opinon of why she did it, there could have been other reasons unknown by me. I was sitting in the apartment we shared when Will called her on the phone. I heard him tell her that if he couldnot have her, then nobodyelse can. He told her he would put her 6 feet under the ground, AND her Mother too! Needless to say I was shocked, I couldnot believe my ears. The woman called our pastor, he called the apartment, Will wouldnot come to the phone. To make a long story short, Will went to her house after this, stabbed her car tires with a knife, and tried to kick her door down. Eventually Will got over this, in just a few months. But I saw for myself what loosing Love can do. It changed this Godly man, and nearly turned him into a killer overnight.

Years after this happened and Will was able to talk about it, he told me it was like a " Spirit came over him", and he was not himself. He told me he never has went through anything like that, and that it literally " Took Control" of his mind and heart.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

I was at home depot some years back in Atlanta, where the bugs are as big as some animals. I had bought a home and it had ants in it. The man at the store suggested to me that I get this " Slow releasing Bait", which has isotobes on it that are poision. The isotobes attach themselves to the Ant, and when the Ant returns to the nest, it spreads and kills inside of the nest, in hopes of killing the Queen Ant, thus wiping out the entire brood. If there is a sin that could do the same thing to a city, its hatred. If you get people to hate one another, you can get them to kill one another. And often sin acts like a slow releasing poision that spreads.

A few war movies I have seen, I recall tension was so high amoungst the troops, that they started fighting each other, while the enemy approached with plans on killing them. When Love is removed, or even hampered, the atmosphere changes, defintely changes, and those changes send people through more changes. For reasons I really don't complettely understand, God instilled within women, cycles, periodical changes that their bodies must go through. So women are literally called to go through changes, both physical and emotional. Love is something that many women pride themselves on.

I have no need to know what women talk about amoungst themselves, because I have heard it enough for myself. You sit in proximity of a female conversation, you are sure to hear, amoungst other things, " My husband, My boyfriend, or My Children", over and over again. Most of the stuffings of " Relationships", one of the Keys to holding people, family, or citys together. So when we hear Christ state that the " Love of many will grow cold", the first red flag should pop up in whats going on with our women. Our relationships, our Familys.

Because if Love is being attacked, that means our women are being attacked, and the poision will try to attach itself to them, so they can carry it home for ultimate effect. Now there are several dynamics involved in the Loosing of Love, that can teach some definte " Spiritual lessons." And there are reasons why satan spoke mostly to Eve in his assualt on Eden. Not so much that she was the " Weaker vessel", because they both wern't far from each other no matter how one views it, they were children at heart and in mind, they were not theologians, but moreso because of Eves Love, and her effect she held on Adam. Eve was the more influential of the two. I would say the more powerful of the two. And I just know some men will disagree with that. But I will show why .

Peace.

[Mickiel]

In Gen.3:1-6 we see the interaction between the serpent and Eve. Notice the serpent addressed Eve, not Adam, in fact the whole conversation was with Eve, Adam never said a word, a sure sign of weakness in a man. Which husband amoung you would remain silent while your wife was being misled and interrigated? Eve then takes the fruit and then gives it to Adam. In vs. 13 God again mostly interrigates Eve, " What is this you have done?" So its no doubt that Eve was much more prominent in this most extrodinary event in human history. And I am sure she probally " Felt" much remorse and thought she was Loosing Gods Love for her. But the beast went after the woman, for a reason too.

Not because she was the weaker, I believe because she held the most influence, and had an edge over Adam, because of Adams Love for her. Adam showed submission to Eve, and choose that over God. I think Adam may well have felt that if he didnot eat, he would loose Eve. So the garden of Eden, is also a Love story, it really is. Eve got over her quilt no doubt, because she said in 4:1 that God gave her the first baby that she had. She gave the glory of the birth to God.


the serpent attacked the woman, because I think he evaluated and scanned their weakness, and saw the weakness as Adams Love. His desire for Eve. He didnot want to loose her, if the fruit was going to change her, he wanted to be what she would become. The serpent knew that Eve would spread her desire into Adam. Poision the Queen in the nest, and you poision all off her offspring. Worser than the Ant poision in home depot, this poision would continue throughout all the generations of Adam.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

The Dynamic of Loosing Love is a " Draining", any leakage of Love from you is an oozing exhale of vital substance. Although women were designed to have regular discharges , when Love is outpoured it is a gush of pain. Its an ejection of a vital organ being dislodged from her, almost akin to her heart being banished or exiled. Love was not designed to be eliminated or abused, when it is violently ripped out of us, its a puke or a barf of our very soul.

Let me pause from subject and say this; All that God is developing within humanity, is meant to last forever. These are eternal lessons, Eternal attributes , Love is an Eternal thing, and God has always been. I don't think God created Love or Peace or Goodness and Joy. We are so accostomed to saying God created this, and God created that, he is the Author of this and that, and rightfully so we say these things. But God didnot create himself, what is God, well God is Love, he didnot create himself, thus he didnot create Love. Love,  Thats just how God is, its his personality, his way of being, its how he thinks, and he didnot create those things within himself. If you teach that God created these ways within himself, then you are suggesting that there was a time that he didNOT have these ways, and thus had to create them within himself. If that be the case, then what are you suggesting that God was like before he recreated himself?

I think we can rightfully state that God is creating Love within us. God is the standard bearer of Love, he set the pace, and he's had a long time to set it up right. God is durable and stable, perhaps hard to explain, but I think he has always been that way. And the beings in Heaven have always benefitted from Gods ways and means. Imagine how it would disrupt Heaven, if Heaven were to loose God, if God would leave and not return. Well God wouldnot do that, not because he can't, but he just does not want to, I don't like saying God " Can't" do something. Love , or God, is never meant to be interupted or perishable. Our lessons being taught us are eternal, because God is eternal, Love is an eternal consistancy, we are never to loose it in Heaven, or in Gods Kingdom.

But here on earth, its a different story. The earth will loose Love, and it will violently react , and has been violently reacting to it. The Love on earth has not been refined or mixed with Gods Love, or the Love would endure and continue. The Love of many will grow cold, because it is not Gods seasoned enduring Love.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

The Loosing of Love on earth, is NOT a thing of Gods Love being interupted, because Gods Love cannot be lost or taken away. Love lost or growing cold on earth is human Love, which is a mere shadow of Gods Love. In John 5:38 again Jesus;"But I know you, that you do not have the Love of God in yourselves." The way of man is not in himself, oh he wants to find his way, but without the added ingredient of Gods Love " Being IN him", its just a difficult way to live. People want to have Gods Love IN them, because they already have Gods Love, meaning God already Loves us all, but its a different kind of thing than emotion is. Gods Love is just as much a part of him, as his Holy Spirit is.

Let me add something here, as we have internal organs inside of us that are a vital " Part" of our physical make up, they are a literal part of us, God also has vital " Parts of himself", inside of himself. These are God vital essentials inside of him, Love, Joy, Peace, Goodness, Kindness, Patience, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Faithfulness, these things ARE God, they are just as vital to him, as our body organs are to us.

When God " Imparts" these things into humans, he is literally placing  parts of himself INSIDE of a human, and we cannot see these things, only the evidence of these things can be seen. Not that they are ethereal things, they are Spiritual things.  And they are eternal things, so they cannot be displaced. One reason the Love on earth will grow cold, is because its not Gods Love in the people who " Loose it". But human Love is NOT a bad thing per sey. So I don't think its a good experience even loosing that. But just understand the difference between the physical and the Spiritual. The physical is " Ours" or earthy, the Spiritual is " Gods' or heavenly. One is temporal the other eternal. Human obedience is human, Godly obedience is from Heaven. Now if my son does not have Heavenly obedience, then human obedience would be just fine with me, at least he will obey, albeit unperfectly. So it is with Love, if not heavenly, then at least Love me humanely.

So humane Love will grow cold on the earth.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

So we should not say " Love is Love", because human Love and Devine Love is different, but loosing Love is just not a good thing, even if its just human Love. Even human Love should be respected and held on to. Again Jesus in John 15:9;" Just as the Father has Loved me, I have also Loved you, abide in MY Love." Again Jesus shows Gods Love as the standard here, and tells them to use HIS Love to keep it together. In vs.7 he says " If you abide in me", which is the direction he was giving. The Love is Gods, the Joy is Gods, the direction is Gods. " Ye are Gods", meaning we belong to God, even we are Gods. But the earth is Gods also and he's not going to let it be destroyed in vain, neither will he let our Love for each other be in vain.

So as Love is ripped from humanity, Gods Love remains constant, and although we may see human Love growing colder, Gods Love will substain his people through anything and everything. But how should we react to the world loosing Love?

Peace.

[Stardust75]

Brilliant!

[Mickiel]

Because of Lawlessness the Love of many will grow cold. I am glad he didnot say that the Love of everybody will grow cold, so theres still going to be some Lovers out there. But these will be some very hard times. In Romans 13:10;" Love does no wrong to a neighbor, Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Law." As Love grows cold so will respect of the Law, both Gods and mans. But mostly mans laws here, because the world is not engulfed in Gods Laws.

If you Love a woman your just not going to do her wrong. The more you see yourself doing her wrong, the more you need to question your Love for her, and then answer those questions to yourself and do something about it. I want to take a detour here and go a bit into Love relationships, because when Laws are broken and Love is growing cold, you  need to consistantly re establish your Love to those who Love you. Love is a circle, and it both keeps Love within the circle and hate out of it. Gods Love is circular, it has no end and it is a continuim, so the standard is already set to follow. A staight line has a beginning and an end, a circle does not, it envisions Eternity itself. Everything about God suggest a continuim, what he does, he has done over and over and over again, and this is simular to perfection.

Eternity then is an explination of God, not that he had to reherse things to get them into perfection, but eternity " Harneses Gods Perfection", and continues it. We are the ones who need to reherse and keep doing it over and over again. We need to establish Love and practice it, and habitually offer it over and over again, because this is what eternity is going to be like. As Love grows cold, then we will be in a pattern of living and expression that this worlds rush cannot penertrate.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

To get the sense of what Christ meant by Love growing cold, we need to focus on the woman, because I believe God invested much more in women that men care to acknowledge. The Woman was the focus of the events in Eden, and notice in Gen. 3:16, as God voiced his displeasure to her, invested in her was really Gods pleasure. He didnot take away Eves Love for Adam, he turned her desire from the fruit to her husband. So the " Curse" was not some kind of " Evil damnation", he simply redirected her focus from one area to another. This is where God placed focus on the family, and the Woman was still the " Key" to this redirection. In her is invested desire, or you can say Love. He placed committment in her to establish human Love on earth, so God even established human Love also.

Then he also gave her " Pain in her childbirth", as God gave the rainbow as a sign, so it is when women experience pain in giving birth, it is also a sign of the suffering that we must endure. When God assigns pain it is really an honor, to both believer and non believer, because you have been chosen to suffer. Every life on earth then has been filtered through the pain of a Woman. I live because of the pain of my Mother. Through the pain of Christ, we all shall Live eternally, so birthpains are the entrance to our lives , both human and devine.

Then God tells the serpent, he will put "Enmity" between him and the woman, in vs.15. Do you know what this means? It means God put " Hostility and Antagonism" between satan and women. satan " Hates" females, strongly dislikes them. Don't forget this. Its because of what God has invested in women, which I will go into later. Because of this, and men need to be keenly aware of this, it is really a shame for a man to hate a woman. Women have the special hatred from satan to already deal with, we men should then not compound that by adding our hate to their troubles. Men need to be aware of this hatred satan has for women, keep it in mind, and offer them nothing but our Love, because satan hates them, bangs hard on them, so we don't need to be banging on them also.

With this in mind, I want to go into relationships, and how vital Love is, and how important it is for a Man to see to it that the Love in his relationship should never grow cold. And how important it is for women to correctly understand what God has invested in them in relationships.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

The number 1 cause of Death of Women is Domestic Violence, a frightening stat by any means. And I am not sure, but I would venture to say that in most of those cases, a man killed them. This fact alone is reflective of a serious problem in relationships. Perverted Love, retracted Love, Jealous Love, witheld Love, overbearing Love, abused Love, or Love grown cold, all examples of human Love gone astray. Relationships need to be invested in. Some men will invest time, money and effort in their careers, their Job, even their animals and recreation , and then invest hardly nothing into their relationship with their Woman.

Relationships need to be secure, not taken for granted. And they need to be kept secure. Some men are perficent in paying the bills, upkeep of their vechicles and mowing the lawn, which is fine and dandy, but what about the " Daily Maintinance " of your Womans needs and desires? What are you doing with that? You come home and feed the Dog, make sure the fish are fed, put oil in the cars and then don't even ask your wife has she eaten. God invested an awful lot into Eve, and we need to invest as much as we can into our women. Espically believers and followers of God. The breakdown of human society, will heavily involve the detiration of Love, firstly between couples, and then into the couples children, and that always equals soceity.

In winter we all try to keep warm, the comming advent of peoples Love growing Cold, demands that we keep our Family Love warm. And there are ways we can do this.

Peace.

[Armistead]

I'm not sure I can add much...seems it more about women...a subject I can
never understand. I wrote this long ago about law and love...another debate. Not sure that it applies much to this topic, so take it or leave it.

"First, we have God's divine moral law, that arises from God's nature. They are unchanging. We must define the difference between moral law and the Cultic/Cultural law. Each are different in form and purpose.

God's moral law is the basis of love in every aspect, how to abide and function in it with God and humanity where love seeks no harm. God's laws relate into our purpose how we serve him and other humans. These moral laws protect and secure humanity. Without them, we would die off.

Almost all of human law stems from God's moral law. Even though we deny God in our legal system, the whole system stems form God, "you shall not steal, kill, ect." Moral law is cross cultural, for all people at all times.

The Cultic/Cultural law was given to the nation of Israel specifically. These laws are not cross cultural, they were for the purpose of building a nation, that would be God's chosen people and the linage of Christ. These laws separated Israel from other nations. Laws of sacrifice of animals. Some of the laws are of Messianic linage, some to guarantee tribal inheritance of land. Of course many of these laws prohibited many behaviors. Rules were given that seem strange and cruel to our culture, but were specific to maintaining Israel's total dependence on God. All of these laws ceased when their purpose was fulfilled, when Christ ended them. Most of these laws are contained within the holiness code outlined in Lev. 17-27. This code was to separate Israel from other secular culture and religious practices. Christ did away with all these laws. For anyone to attempt to keep them would be vainful and useless. As you said, one was meat and Paul addressed that.

Again, Christ freed us from all this law. He gave us the command to love God and others and stated this fulfills all the law. James tells us "love does no harm, thus it fulfills the law." Simply, if in our actions we seek to do no harm, that fulfills the law of love. The old law serves no purpose. We live under one law..the law of love. It amazes me that people are bound to so much legalism. We are under grace, but many churches still abide in laws, rituals, ect, that have nothing to do with love. That's why so many churches are filled with gossip, hypocrisy, judging, ect...Truly miserable Christians.

There are so many cases of decisions on what is sin or not. (1 Cor.11:5-6, 13) talk about women and head covering, cutting hair, ect. Many religions abide in this, that women must cover their head or have long hair. Paul does address this, more culturally, seeming to imply women should cover their heads, BUT, he ended by saying "Judge for yourselves":" Is it proper for a women to pray to God with her head uncovered?" There are some other verses concerning men with long hair. Paul leaned toward the culture of the day, basically saying that culture can play a part, but in the end, clearly we are to judge for ourselves. The bible is not exactly a constitution regarding sin, it leaves a decision process based on many principles.

The same could be said of women speaking in the church. Culturally, at that time, it may be better they do not, but is it a divine command? Gal. 3:28 "There is neither Greek, Jew, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ."

1 Tim. 2:9;1Pet. 3.3, both talk about what women should wear, "let not your adornment be external, braiding of hair,,,wearing gold jewelry and THE PUTTING ON OF DRESSES." Peter basically forbid women to wear dresses. Funny, many get on women about wearing jewelry, makeup, nice clothes, but have no problem with the wearing of dresses, yet they call it divine law...haha. Should we obey Peter and not allow the "wearing of dresses." This is where so many legalist choose as they please, forgetting they were addressing many of the cultural problems of the day. The problem wasn't in the jewelry, makeup or the dress code. Paul and Peter were addressing concerns over certain women dressing outrageously in that day to draw attention to themselves for evil intent. Wearing dresses, makeup, ect. do not violate the law of love in our culture. Today, some women would be breaking the law of love if they didn't put makeup on!

There were so many of these issues that were historical or cultural and they were dealt with as such. Paul left openings and decision making, based on future culture and circumstances. Take the tribes in Africa, running around naked means nothing to them. Paul addresses issues that abide in love and certainly culture can change that. 

Drinking is an option, drunkenness is not. Listening to decent secular music does not violate the law of love, dancing, wearing shorts, using birth control, ect. and so on....none break the law of love, unless in someway you have an intent to do harm. Only man made law implies that they do. The list could fill a book.

Rom. 8.13, "Nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything is unclean, to him it is unclean. That's clear and biblical. Nothing is unclean in itself.

Clearly, sin can differ from individual as he views sin. This often changes one way or the other as people grow and study scripture. If it does not break the law of love and you can be happy in your conscience, the bible says you can freely act, as long as you don't become a stumbling block for someone that is weaker. Something's you may not do in front of a weaker person. However, if you doubt in your conscience, you should not act, until it is resolved, Cor. 8:12.

Each person must exercise their faith before God. Roms. 14: 22-23 "The faith you have, have as your OWN CONVICTION before God. "HAPPY is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."; But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin." This does two things. You are to base your decisions on love and not harming others, decide for yourself, do not let others decide for you, a church, Pastor, friend, ect. You must answer for your conscience, not theirs. It also takes away your right to judge others.

Each must truly be honest in himself. The law of love is not a liberty to use to fulfill anything you desire. Desires and motives must be tested. When in doubt, take more time to study and pray. God wants and give us the right to live without self-condemnation, with joy, peace, and fulfillment. Legalist will seek to take that away, rather having you live in guilt, shame, doubt and misery on earth. They think any pleasure outside of religion is sin. The churches would be full across the world if not for the misery of legalisms. People see church as a trap of misery of do's and don't, not understanding the law of love.

[Mickiel]

I'm not sure I can add much...seems it more about women...a subject I can
never understand. I wrote this long ago about law and love...another debate. Not sure that it applies much to this topic, so take it or leave it.

I am more interested in why you have not understood  Women, and think that you never could. Do you care to explain why you think this way?

Peace.

[Stardust75]

Mickiel,

I am so intrigued by this topic. Thank you so much for posting it. It makes this painful call that God has on my life all the more worth it. There are nuggets of encouragement in this post and a personal confirmation to press on in what is personally painful in my life, but know I have to walk through. I have not walked it perfectly, but God is taking me to higher place where I need to choose to submit and stop wrestling with it. He gives me glimpses of how suffering for Him is  not in vain...which keeps me going. Otherwise, I would just be crazy to keep walking through this. I can't even put into words how God spoke to me through this..thank you!

[Stardust75]

All I can say is that it gives me even greater inspiration to reverse the curse..so to speak...to walk in the truth of being a woman and thankfully accepting my role in the world. Eventhough unseen by many, God uses the foolish things to confound the wise. Simple surrender to crush satan under our feet. Thank you for acknowledging us. It is incredibly hard loving someone that you are called to and they do not see these truths. It is hard to keep my love from growing cold. Reading your post has encouraged me to no allow it to for that would give satan victory in my life and family.

[Mickiel]

All I can say is that it gives me even greater inspiration to reverse the curse..so to speak...to walk in the truth of being a woman and thankfully accepting my role in the world. Eventhough unseen by many, God uses the foolish things to confound the wise. Simple surrender to crush satan under our feet. Thank you for acknowledging us. It is incredibly hard loving someone that you are called to and they do not see these truths. It is hard to keep my love from growing cold. Reading your post has encouraged me to no allow it to for that would give satan victory in my life and family.

Well good for you, our relsationship with God needs to be made sure, and every year, no matter where I am posting, at times during the year, I will specifically target women, and give them a few things. I think I need to start doing this with teenagers, something I never do.

Electricity natrually seeks to get to the ground, as thunder strikes  from the air. Remember that satan is a " Prowler" and he naturally is " Seeking to Devour." And its natural for satan to do this, he does not think he is doing wrong. For the Lion, the reason it hunts is to eat and survive. satan is different, he does not have to eat, he hunts out of hatred. And he really hates women with a passion. There are several reasons for this. He hates men too, and Women keep having these humans he hates, keep recycling them on the earth, over and over again, they keep repopulating the earth. So satan hates women because they keep replenising the ranks. He also hates women because he reconizes Gods plan of universal salvation, but that plan couldnot be accomplished without women. God wants a very, very big family, but instead of creating them outright instantly, he decided to continually reproduce them through the womb of a woman. So women are a main pivot of Gods master plan.

he also hates women because of their " Love." Two things I know about Women that I know is a specific creation from God is this: they were designed to endure Pain, and designed to contain Love. Designed to hold both, and these two things equals honor and reward from God, if I know God.

Women do what they do because of whats in them. There is a lot of Love in them. God has blessed me to have a very, very good woman in my life. Its NOTHING like having a good woman, nothing. And I invest all that is in me , in treating her as best as I can. And I refuse to let myself NOT pay attention to MY promise to MYself, to always improve in my dealings with her. Because I already know that she is a gift from God, specfic for me. What kind of a fool would I be to abuse a gift from God?

Sometimes I just watch her, the way that she is, the things that she does. Now this woman has her own house, but EVERY time she comes over to mine, the first thing she does is clean the place, although its never a mess, but its ever a mess, because she always cleans it. Now I have never ask her to do this, she just does it. Wash the dishes, take my clothes home with her and wash them. whatever the place needs, and I mean whatever it needs from cleaning materials to whatever, she goes out and gets it. What ever she sees or just thinks that I need, she goes out and gets it, and I mean that day. And I have never asked her to do this in 3 years. If she sees a little scratch on me she tends to it. If see sees a little piece of lint on my clothes, she takes it off. I don't want to make this list long, because I can, suffice it to say that this woman helps me and will do anything for me. I am the man, but goodness, this woman is taking care of me. And gets irritated if I try to stop her from doing it.

What this does is cause you to respond in like manner, and her goodness, will circle around and cause you to be good to her. Now if a man was like that to his woman, always good to her, but this man meets a woman who likes being good to her man, when two people like this get together, then you have a good relationship.

But what about a relationship where one of the two, is not in Love or not being good? And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Some people interpret Adam as our spirit (male) and Eve as our soul (female). As such, we can see why Paul speaks about the woman (female) not speaking in the assembly. This is because we must hear from the Spirit.

Our spirit must listen to God's Spirit, not the soul. I agree with Mickiel that Adam has a weakness for Eve. And still today, many times we listen to our soul and not the Spirit of God. And when our soul leads our spirit, we are in trouble. It should be the spirit leading the soul.

So our spirit can be "led by the Spirit of God" or "led by our soul." One leads to life, the other leads to death.

I believe this is why in another place Paul writes that in Christ there is neither male nor female. On an earthly level, we are all equal. In the assembly, it must be our spirit that speaks what it hears directly from the Spirit of God. God is Spirit. They that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. And we are made in His image, because we are also spirit.


Just some thoughts I had..




Love to all,
Brian

[gr8wuf]

When God assigns pain it is really an honor, to both believer and non believer, because you have been chosen to suffer.

Wow can you talk more about this? Perhaps in another forum thread, since it may be off topic for this one.

I'm a chronic pain survivor, 4 years of non-ending physical pain, and now vigilence against it to maintain a better quality of life.

How is suffering an honor?

[Mickiel]

When God assigns pain it is really an honor, to both believer and non believer, because you have been chosen to suffer.

Wow can you talk more about this? Perhaps in another forum thread, since it may be off topic for this one.

I'm a chronic pain survivor, 4 years of non-ending physical pain, and now vigilence against it to maintain a better quality of life.

How is suffering an honor?

Well I don't mind hitting on it a bit. One thing God required Jesus to do, was to suffer, whenever a human is required to do, what Jesus did, that is an honor. Its a cross assigned by God to bear. When you went through those 4 years of unending pain, that was a cross that God placed you on. God placed Jesus on the cross for specific reasons, and all of humanity will benefit from it. Our pain is no different, either we, or others will benefit from it. The benefit will come often immediately, or down the road, or even manifest itself in Eternity, but it will benefit. Such is the way with God, pain has a purpose, we just often cannot reconize the purpose of it, at least I know I do not.

We need to believe that when God hurts, it will help, because the wound of a friend is always faithful. But listen, humans are destined for honor, weather they suffer much or not. When we walk into Gods Kingdom, the billions of Angels, who are a creation NOTHING like us, will honor us forever. WHY? Well these Angels, and all other beings created in Heaven, NONE of them have EVER suffered, none of them. Look at this mess we are going through, the Pain, the suffering, the confusion, the troubles, the sin and constant evil, nobody in Heaven BUT Christ has had to live like this and constantly deal with life on this level.

Everyone in Heaven has had constant Peace, unheard of Joy, Love at unlimited levels, no sin, no evil, no deception, and Jesus and God right there with them for untold billions of eternitys time. Well eternity is timeless, but you get the point. They NEVER have had anything but perfection and Pure God. Were not talking about a tortured prisioner of war returning home, Heaven will welcome humans as the finest creation of God ever! What we are going through now, is utter insanity to them. Its like they are watching God create something, but dragging the creation process through incredible heartwrenching pain and mental anguish and physical suffering, which has NEVER been, nor will ever be again.

This is the " Honor" in suffering. No creation of God has even been asked to endure this, we were not asked. The weight was placed on us by God. That is a very special burden which God himself takes very seriously. He never has created anything to suffer, except man. This solidfys our place in Heaven as an honorable one. We will be unique in many areas, suffering just one of them, being in flesh another. Dealing with sin another. Dealing with satan another. Kept from God another. And just use your meditation to add to this list, just think of all the areas that we exist in, that Spirit beings have not. Each one is an honor.

Peace.

[Molly]

Lightning starts from the ground and goes up.  Just an interesting factoid.



Despite its confident appearance, a lightning flash develops in fits and starts. The path of a typical cloud-to-ground (CG) flash lowering negative charge to earth is carved by a series of stepped leaders, each moving a bundle of charge a distance on the order of a city block. Each step takes only 1 microsecond or so, but the pauses between steps are much longer--on the order of 50 microseconds. At each step, the bolt may shift direction toward a stronger electric field, thus creating its crooked appearance. As a CG flash approaches several regions of opposite charge on the ground, it often branches into several parts.
Just before it reaches ground, the step leader induces a huge electric potential (some 10 million volts), enough to bring up surges of positive charge from sharp objects or irregularities near the ground. Once the impulses meet--a few tens of meters above earth--the connection is established and the return stroke zips upward at a rate much faster than the stepped leader's descent. It is this return stroke that produces the visible flash as it heats surrounding air to 30,000 degrees C (54,000 degrees F), which in turn creates the shock wave we hear as thunder.

http://www.ucar.edu/communications/infopack/lightning/faq.html



Satan doesn't hate women.  He hates God.  That hatred extends to Adam, the son of God.

It was Adam he was after not Eve, but he had to get to Adam through Eve because Adam was not deceived and could not be deceived.

And, satan knows exactly what he is doing, as do all liars and murderers.

Like all psychopaths, satan knows what he does is wrong but he doesn't care.

I believe this is why in another place Paul writes that in Christ there is neither male nor female. On an earthly level, we are all equal. In the assembly, it must be our spirit that speaks what it hears directly from the Spirit of God. God is Spirit. They that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. And we are made in His image, because we are also spirit.

Excellent!  Thanks!

[gr8wuf]

Our pain is no different, either we, or others will benefit from it. The benefit will come often immediately, or down the road, or even manifest itself in Eternity, but it will benefit.

Thanks so much Mickiel. You've started my brain thinking. I know from experience that my journey through suffering has blessing, not just to myself, but to others. The blessing continues as I meet others who suffer and I am able to minister hope and encouragement.

But I never thought of it from the perspective of honor. Blessings to your for sharing.

[Mickiel]

Our pain is no different, either we, or others will benefit from it. The benefit will come often immediately, or down the road, or even manifest itself in Eternity, but it will benefit.

Thanks so much Mickiel. You've started my brain thinking. I know from experience that my journey through suffering has blessing, not just to myself, but to others. The blessing continues as I meet others who suffer and I am able to minister hope and encouragement.

But I never thought of it from the perspective of honor. Blessings to your for sharing.

Well its defintely an honor. In your thinking , consider this; Even Jesus suffering was not exactly like ours. Jesus was literally conceived by the Holy Spirit, then through the flesh of a woman. He then lived his human life in the flesh and defeated sin. We were not conceived by the Holy Spirit, and had to face life without it, until it comes to be within, which I won't get into on this post. Even if people do have the Holy Spirit, they still had to live most of their lives without it. Then Jesus had prior experience with God, he had already been with God for an awful long time, we have never been with God. So we humans suffer from a unique perspective, and female suffering is a unique perspective.

In Phil. 1:29;"For to you it has been granted for Christ sake, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake." Here again is the honor, the priviledge to do something , which is going to be painful, for Christ " Sake", sake means purpose or intrest, it means benefit.

You know, let me say something here; Its almost as if God created humanity , and then put us all in a type of " Coma", think of Romans 11:32, where God has shut up all into disobedience, a coma of sorts, then placed us into a womb, or the earth, then deals with us in our conscious and unconscious pain. Having to be in this kind of existence is an honor within itself, and the womb itself, or the earth, is groaning and reeling from the pain, and even the womb, or the earth, is wanting to get out of this mess, this misery. The analogys to the female here is eye opening and of intrest to me, and I am a man.

Well the earth will be released from this misery and renewed, and so will humanity. In Rom. 8:18 we can see how God plans on honoring humanity, and the honor willnot be even worthy to compare to our present suffering. Your 4 years of continual suffering is a highlight to celestrial beings of your greatness, they may ask you about it and marvel at you because you had to endure it.

You know, I think some of us have suffered so much that we just have gotten " Numb", literally accustomed to it, used to it, even expect it. Its like we have been in a war all of our lives, and to an extent we have.

Peace.