Just what do you mean - Born Again?

[Ross]

In Phil.3:10 "That we may know him and the power of his resurrection. , and the fellowship of his sufferings. Being made comfortable unto his death."  Jesus resurrection destroyed all sin, and. Ushered in free salvation..when we fellowship with his sufferings , we know that our suffering has meaning, we share in it with our Lord. You become comfortable with his Death by dying daily. 8 years of lung cancer stage 4, they tell me I can die any day now, so I put that in Jesus hands , so.i Die daily , becoming more comfortable with death. In Job 36:26 God is great we know him not. This is where we begin.

Would be the concept that to live is Christ, to die is gain.

[Mickiel]

Yes to live is Christ to die is gain, with death we gain the weight of the New Birth. I like the way Gary spoke of death, he said the death of the first death is the second death. It's usually chili to speak of death. Makes you pinch yourself.

[Mickiel]

Salvation is the sandwich between death and life. It is our dinner at a glorious banquet that awaits us and then on to eternity we go! We will travel first class and we have our reservations for free. Salvation : the freedom of the saints. Jesus, who had never known death , experienced it for us . An experience the Father God does not have himself.  So the Father went outside of himself to share himself with a new kind of crop of creation that eternity welcomes to the table. Praise God we have a solid salvation that God went besides himself  in presenting the host of heaven these new marvels that now loops the love of God around his great table.

[Ross]

No wonder all creation is groaning while awaiting the system upgrade.

[Mickiel]

No wonder all creation is groaning while awaiting the system upgrade.
[/quot

:rolllol:

[Mickiel]

No wonder all creation is groaning while awaiting the system upgrade.
[/quot

:rolllol:

The system upgrade i like that. I could do a lot with that inspiration thoughts it brings to the surface. The Kingdom is continually setting records., Christ no longer is speaking in the manner he was, witholding further truths about himself and the Kingdom. In Col. 1:26 , the saints are being upgraded.. No more parables.Humanity missed out during  Christ teaching In parables anyway, they did not believe anyhow  , only the saints understood some of it. An upgrade of understanding is needed in the world , and a plate of understanding is given to the saints at every days meal. The new birth is an upgrade , in my view it is an extraction from the flesh into the spirit. It is the " Nativity In the spirit", born again , brought into a totally new life existence..An otherworldly transition that has no birth defects. I know many saints believe they are born again right now, pre-Kingdom, i am indifferent to that, I believe born again is in the Kingdom , where there is no sexes , neither male or female, as one can plainly see in Gal. 3:28. If people were born again and the Kingdom was already here, there can be no sexes,  And we will be slaves to nothing. I don't understand how these are ignored or explained away by some. As if Christ is still teaching in parables. But you know, we see what we see, we can only be conscious of , those things we are conscious of.

[Mickiel]

There will be billions of  born again humans in the Kingdom. A number that  no man could number. Rev.7 :9-10, After the this I saw a great number of all nations , kindreds , and people, and tongues , stood before the throne , and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes and palms In their hands and cried with a loud voice , saying , Salvation to our God which sits on the  throne , and unto the Lamb. This is what the Kingdom of God will look like. Born again humans will dress like. This is the first day of the Kingdom of God ,the first day of born from above. These are they who have washed their robe in the blood of the Lamb.

In verse 17 ,"For the Lamb is in "The Midst" of them. The same greek.used in Luke 17:20, Jesus was "Among them":, the Kingdom was in their midst.lt was Jesus.

[Mickiel]

The Kingdom of God is within you, believers who grab the Kingdom at first sight will get the wrong impression, because of their strong desire to have that kingdom in them. The better translation would be "In your midst" , or "Among you". Jesus was telling them he was the Kingdom among them. This subject has been blown out of proportion. It is only mentioned In scripture once , Luke 17 : 21. Those one scripture doctrines always strike a nerve in Christianity. And their topics are usually morbidly obese. They grow outside of scripture , because they cannot grow inside of the bible . If God or Christ view it as important, the scriptures would reflect that.

[Mickiel]

I want to stress that these are my views. Could I be wrong , oh please, of course I could be wrong. I been wrong about things in scripture for years. I have read the same scripture and held to my interpretation, then 25 years later find out I was wrong. So I just wanted to make that clear, I am not a theologian. I am like anyone here, searching for the truth.

[Mickiel]

To step into eternity are footprints awaiting us like life in the sand. The nature of all things we know will change. Our existence will change. Our whole body will change. The nature of existence is to exist. No more vampires of sin trying to drain our very lives from us. No more nomads of death titans to attack. The small short question "God is", will have no time  limit to learn. Salvation will open up it's true nature to us and we will glean for all eternity. I am hoping that God will grant each of us personal time with him, he has eternity to do it. Oh what that would truly be like. To have an audience with King Jesus. I can hardly wait, contain myself. New life opening to us like a flower blooming.We will walk in the light of the Lord. And  beat our swords into plowshares.

Before this begins we may have a day seven women shall take hold of  one man, saying,we will eat our own bread, and buy their own clothes, only let us be called by your name , to take away our reproach. Seven wives. My goodness. Ohh I like this Bible.

[Mickiel]

In Eph. 4:23, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. With the belief of the Kingdom of God is here now , one should  not have any problem in trying to at least understand that  being born again
is transformative.  If you can make it this far, then understand that we are not to be conformed to this world, we must not then, in any manner. , Try to bring down the Kingdom now and conform it to this world through you. Oh no, but their is the need to be transformed, which is to be metamorphose, changed in appearance, structure and your form. It's not just a conscious being born again, the transformation is complete when we are caught up into the air to meet Christ. In my view,, that is being born again. Yes it's a renewing of the mind, I will agree that the renewing of the mind has begun on earth. But we cannot separate being born again from the transformation.

[Mickiel]

Greetings,
If I may continue with topic. The born again saga  can be witnessed in Matt.17:2, Mark 9:2-3, and Luke 9:28-36.  The transfiguration when Christ showed his disciple's his appearance , his appearance was in radiant glory. And the transfiguration changed Christ into beautiful spiritual state. It is clearly a complete change of body, form and spiritual state of being. In scripture the transfiguration means a change of form and how you now appear.

Born again in my view you are given a new and typically exalted or spiritual appearance and state of being. Transmutation , permutation , change over , reformation and transfigured. These may help your search for born again. Satan will push you into the Kingdom being here now and the transfiguration to be separate from being born again. Under those circumstances more confusion is allowed in our midst.

[marie glen]

 :cloud9:

No wonder all creation is groaning while awaiting the system upgrade.

Oh wow! I love that too! ..I plan to use it one of these days! As something heard. System upgrade! It?s quite fitting! And it will be glorious!

[marie glen]

The Kingdom of God is within you, believers who grab the Kingdom at first sight will get the wrong impression, because of their strong desire to have that kingdom in them. The better translation would be "In your midst" , or "Among you". Jesus was telling them he was the Kingdom among them. This subject has been blown out of proportion. It is only mentioned In scripture once , Luke 17 : 21. Those one scripture doctrines always strike a nerve in Christianity. And their topics are usually morbidly obese. They grow outside of scripture , because they cannot grow inside of the bible . If God or Christ view it as important, the scriptures would reflect that.

   :thumbsup: I agree!

[marie glen]

To step into eternity are footprints awaiting us like life in the sand. The nature of all things we know will change. Our existence will change. Our whole body will change. The nature of existence is to exist. No more vampires of sin trying to drain our very lives from us. No more nomads of death titans to attack. The small short question "God is", will have no time  limit to learn. Salvation will open up it's true nature to us and we will glean for all eternity. I am hoping that God will grant each of us personal time with him, he has eternity to do it. Oh what that would truly be like. To have an audience with King Jesus. I can hardly wait, contain myself. New life opening to us like a flower blooming.We will walk in the light of the Lord. And  beat our swords into plowshares.

    :thumbsup:

Before this begins we may have a day seven women shall take hold of  one man, saying,we will eat our own bread, and buy their own clothes, only let us be called by your name , to take away our reproach. Seven wives. My goodness. Ohh I like this Bible.

I?ve never understood (been able to see) this prophecy.. And I?m really into biblical prophecy.. I suppose it?s prophecy concerning days of collapse..  :Chinscratch: thanks! I think that?s it!

[marie glen]

In Eph. 4:23, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. With the belief of the Kingdom of God is here now , one should  not have any problem in trying to at least understand that  being born again
is transformative.  If you can make it this far, then understand that we are not to be conformed to this world, we must not then, in any manner. , Try to bring down the Kingdom now and conform it to this world through you. Oh no, but their is the need to be transformed, which is to be metamorphose, changed in appearance, structure and your form. It's not just a conscious being born again, the transformation is complete when we are caught up into the air to meet Christ. In my view,, that is being born again. Yes it's a renewing of the mind, I will agree that the renewing of the mind has begun on earth. But we cannot separate being born again from the transformation.

Amen.. Hebrews 11, talking about martyrs throughout the centuries, concludes with ? they were not perfected without us ? which to me, also refutes the idea of every person having a judgment day at their death and either perfected ? aFter the judgment (Rev.20) ? or purified, punished or corrected. Which I believe those parts of the program (transformation process) are collective (and still in the heart individual, of course. But what I think it says is man?s empire self destructs in a number of ways, and the Lord returns during the (fiery) culmination. (I think God calls it His actions and judgment, and I think it is in the sense of cause and effect.. not like Thor throwing thunder bolts - even if it is called like lightning (quick). It?s actually what Itruly think His wrath/ire is. (How He made a cause and effect universe.)
     Then of course begins His long second advent, and of course the millennium (a Sabbath, and 7th millennium). Rev.20 says the judgment is after the millennium. And there?s verse 5, that ? the rest of the dead rise not until after the thousand years. Now, for some time, I have thought, this judgment day, simply cannot be some flash in the pan event! What ligic is there to that? Our Father, I think, is a veRy good and thorough teacher (of this lesson of Good from evil/notGood) we are learning. And logically, what a great way to teally drive home the lesson.. a great day of the review of all history.
    Like something you mentioned earlier, if something is true, it will be built upon. If it?s the Lord Jesus, or the Father teaching us something, He will build upon it.. keep teaching it in greater detail and depth. One way of testing True from not true?
    Then I realized, wow.. all those generations, of all the nations, down through the millennia, of all who have ever lived, I believe shall rise in all the colorful panorama of their day.. All manner of people, most I have to believe simply happy to be alive! But some, INITIALLY, more like the setting of the Laarus and rich man parable, and tbe outside-of-the-vision narrative of Rev.22, with some weeping, weeping, gnashing of teeth, and even some outer darkness.
    If I?ve mentioned this before, well, I can be pretty forgetful. :doh:
     Imagine my surprise after all this, quite a while, to finally realize the impact of what in the scripture is called an 8th day the last great day! And look at this - John 7:37 ? Now in the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink! ? A glimpse of that 8th day (Rev.20:7-15) including the realest reality (lol)of THE day of atonement. And vs.15, the lake of fire mention, is surely at the END or after day/age of judgment. ? If anyone is found - have to search far and wide by then? - whose name is not written in the book of life, they will be purified (with the devil and his angels) in the fire (of the fiery regenesis? Rev.21:1-5, 2Pet.3:12-13, verse 10 and 12-13 being bookend fiery events of the Lord?s long second advent?)
:Peace2:

And amen :thumbsup: about the transfiguration, and transformation.. Jesus is first/proto, the prototype! But folks can get puffed up about that.. and forget that ? God alone will be exalted in that day ? which I think includes the day of man?s empire?s judgment/fall and all that follows.. actually forever. :gsmile:

[Mickiel]

Greetings Marie Glen,

I really have questions about the so called millennium. I wrestle with it so pray for me I have asked God and Christ for understanding, but they do not respond. I just have trouble understanding the event. The devil and his demons are locked inside of a bottomless pit for 1,000 years.Then they are released and they deceive many saints. And this sets off another war

I don't get it

[Mickiel]

Greetings Marie Glen,

I really have questions about the so called millennium. I wrestle with it so pray for me I have asked God and Christ for understanding, but they do not respond. I just have trouble understanding the event. The devil and his demons are locked inside of a bottomless pit for 1,000 years.Then they are released and they deceive many saints. And this sets off another war

I don't get it
[/quote-?

I keep trying to learn about this millennium, it is just strange. But all these things must be a different kind of learning. To those of you who hold tight to no time passing in the Kingdom , here's a 1,000 years set amount of time. It would also mean that born again believers who have lived right, and holy, will be deceived
After all that time in the spirit, they were still deceived .  Also it would mean that Satan and his demons were set loose by angels. First they go to the four corners of the earth , This is of interest , the Kingdom must be heavily populated all over the earth,  and Satan pulls more humans to help his cause.

Satan had plans , and, just as in the garden of Eden, he snatches born again believers to help him kill Christ and God. They fail and loose the war.

Deceiving us on earth was easy for him to do, but these were born again saints of God, and they had the spirit of God for one thousand years. Something is seriously wrong with this .

[Mickiel]

 The born again in the flesh syndrome always puzzles me.  Even the saga of the millennium is a great mystery to me. I really can't understand the millennium mentioned 6 times in Revelations chapter 20.. again, considering biblical research, a one chapter mention . So we have to really dig. trying to piece this together is a challenge in my view. The millennium supposedly will be in the Kingdom of heaven. Listen that time must be a perfect world ,. With Christ as our ruler, you are believing that after Christ influence on the brethren , Christ and God walking amongst us , that peace will be broken. Micah 4:4 Everyone will sit under the vine and his fig tree.

A thousand years of God still creating , will now be attacked by evil. This pristine  universe is being asked again to do battle with evil. I don't know anything about this millennium , but I know a little bit about God. If this is a true biblical event , then God must have ordered it. So the real research is to find out "Why." What is God getting for staging such an awful event? God is not a  waster of time. He will not tolerate sin in his Kingdom.  He will not co-exist with evil in eternity.

What is God doing? In my view, this kind of event the people will need to understand and be patient with God. And trust that he knows what and why he does things. In Isaiah 9:7, - end of verse, describes it is God's doing" The zeal of the Lord will perform this."He will establish it with judgement and justice forever. He is, God is , but notice this bombshell in Isaiah 9:6-7 look at what names Jesus is called; Wonderful Counselor , the mighty God, the everlasting Father , the Prince of peace. Here Jesus is called the mighty God , and the Father. Wow! I surely don't understand this, now im all twisted and floored.

[Mickiel]

Another thing that interest me about this event the millennium, the saints that are deceived a second time , Satan quickly deceives  them to join ranks with him , Rev.20:8, the number of saints deceived , may be in the millions, the number of which is as the sands of the sea. All now join Satan who marches to the great Holy City.  They get to the holy city and are slaughtered by the fire of God.
God help me ,I don't want to be among them. God will still  give them eternal life.

[Ross]

There has been wars about the varying opinions and interpretations of how the end/changes will come about.

Some reckon they go before the tribulation, some after, some during.

Some reckon the 1000 years has already happened; is happening; is going to happen; then they disagree about the purpose of the 1000 years.

Have not heard many talk about the Great White Throne period.
Most seem to be thinking that the majority of mankind will be in hell forever- which, to me, instills fear of rejection into the heart of many.

Then the debate about the New Jerusalem- where is that from and where does that go.
Many also reckon there is not going to be a new earth, but a rehash of said earth.

The debates seem to be so that people will not be able to claim their rights into heaven as that would negate the work of Christ and cause disputes left, right, and centre.

One way; one door; one point of entrance- Christ.

The flesh cannot grasp that data. This, for me, is why the need for divine revelation so that no-one can boast in personal effort.
We all appear to be along that concept.

So then, for me, the logical presentation of the future which is to come, being glorious beyond our imagination abilities, must come along a logically planned route for the ultimate outcome.

First mankind must go through the tribulation.
Many will die, but some will not. There appears to be protection for the ecclesia like the pass-over of the lamb during the Egyptian incident. The ecclesia have already been judged and will have their new bodies when first resurrected. 

Then the ecclesia will go to the heavens for 1000 years of training- during which they will probably go to work among those who have been saved during the tribulation, but were NOT part of the ecclesia.
Those who are to be converted or saved during that process will have to go through the second death.
During that 1000 years there will not be  any satanic input, so mankind will not be distracted from the truth, nor will they be able to blame anything or anyone else for their mistakes.



Then the devil  will gather enemies against the saints on earth. This seems to point out that some will have gone through the tribulation but are still not corrected spiritually.
No length of time for that budding event.

Then the devil removed permanently after the battle.

Then there is the Great White Throne period for the correction of the remainder of mankind and those who have been resurrected from the dead. This will be another great time of learning for those who are currently not aware of the plan.
No time period for that process.

Then the second death for those who have been corrected, judged during that Great White Throne period.

THEN the New Jerusalem coming down to the NEW earth.
Still refers to nations coming before that New Jerusalem [ Rev 21;24]
Also points out the tree of life with water flowing from the throne of God and the Lamb.
Literal living water.

This appears to be a rather brilliant process with the glorious outcome for ALL MANKIND- but each in their own time as we are all children of the one Father through Christ.
WOW!

No time limit in the equation.
Mankind in the flesh has tried to explain all this- but cannot grasp the story- pretty much why the tower of Babel, and disagreement about doctrinal issues is all around us so that no-one can claim personal glory.

C.U

[Mickiel]

 Yes I have heard the scripture slogan , " The Great White  Throne Judgement." We Universalist need look close here. In Rev. 20:12-15. Books were opened, then separately another book is opened which is the book of life. A period of judgement ensues. Every person gets judged. Now verse 15 states that whoever was not found, just written in the book,  just written in it, this book of life , they were cast into the lake of fire. If your a true Universalist , you believe that no one is lost , then you can dismiss verse 15. Another scripture i don't understand. Is the Bible trying to be threatening? Looking to intimidate the reader?

I have heard the Bible is one of those books opened,  I can see that. but I don't think God is going to judge anyone. John 5:22, "For the Father judges no man , but has committed all judgement to the Son." This from Jesus mouth so it's solid truth. The Father will not judge any human. And really Jesus does not want to either, but if he has to , then it will be true. John 8:15, "You judge after the flesh, I judge no man ". These verses point us to universalism for sure. The Father saying he's not judging anyone. Jesus staying literally the same thing , after Jesus says he judges no man,  so it's an after thought that he states "If I judge, my judgement is true and he's not alone in this magnificent moment."So again Jesus is the vine of God, connecting him to the world. Salvation is based on And is more than enough food to eat, no one will starve , and all are invited, John 17:1-2.Look at how much the Father has invested in Christ: he gives Jesus any judgement that Christ deems necessary, power overall flesh, power over eternal life, he then is Salvation , just as he was the Kingdom in our midst . The. "Reason" for judgement really is to determine other things , like  specialty rewards , crowns for righteousness, positions , property , and how you are expected to serve. No sin in humans will be judged. But IF Christ has to judge something special , then he will. This is how I am impressed here. If anywhere in the Bible judgement is mentioned and humans must suffer, be punished in the Kingdom , it's best taken with a grain of salt. With Jesus overall control of salvation , there is no book that can change that or over rule it.

[Mickiel]

The Great White Throne Judgement, or the location of this event is at God's throne. We need not fear this event , and convince others not to fear God's or Jesus judgement. This is the foundation of the Great White Throne Judgement, ; John 3:17-18 , "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but ,( or rather) , that the world' through him might be saved. The term " Might", here is best used  in the expression "Expressed possibility",  that the world through him has an expressed possibility to be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned , but unbelievers are condemned already. Because they don't believe . Well what is the condemnation, eternal hell punishing , no, vs.19 gives the punishment;"And this is the punishment , that men will be confused by seeing so much darkness that they can't see the light that has come into the world. They are spiritually blind, that is the condemnation , It means God strongly disapproves.

And Jesus has their unbelief covered. In John 12:47, "And if any man hears my words and believes not, I judge him not, I came into the world not to judge it , but to save it." As mentioned before, Jesus is not going to judge this world. Again you need to believe this,Jesus is not going to judge the world. John 8:15, "You judge after the flesh, I judge no man". It does not matter if they do not believe, consider Romans 3:3,"For what if some don't believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God ineffectual ? God forbid, the faith of God has saved them already.

[Mickiel]

I admit to my doubts concerning the millennium , which is mentioned six times in scripture, all 6 in Revelation 20. Just to list some of my skeptical observations ; if your one of those who believe time does not exist in the Kingdom , explain to me
how you are hiding a one thousand year count down from your belief?  Why the Apostle Paul completely ignored the event in 1 Corinth. 15:22-50? He speaks of Christ coming in the end.Jesus delivers the Kingdom to God, all things are placed under God's feet. He goes into the resurrection , in vs.35- 39, vs 38,"But God gives a body after the resurrection as it has pleased him, to every seed his own body. Again God already has each humans body in his spirit seed in the Kingdom. He literally discets the resurrection  , making it very plain to understand. No flesh and blood shall inherit the Kingdom, no flesh of humanity living outside of the Holy City.

Also the main thing that bugs me is Satan is bound and "Sealed" so he could not deceive anyone for one thousand years. Yet he is loosed and after a little season and still is able to seduce millions of saints, whose number is as the sands of the sea. Even before this event John saw another war that occurs before Satan is  bound . In  Rev.19:11-19, especially verse 19, "To make war against Christ and his army . Then Satan is bound after that war. Saints are being trained and indoctrinated , they grow stronger daily. They walk with God and Christ for one thousand years. This is not the church age members , these are they who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. Satan knocked around churches with relative ease on earth. Now we're taking about millions of Saints , spirit Being brothren who have experienced nothing but increase , they are way more powerful than believers in the flesh.

Now Satan is loosed and he immediately starts deceiving . You mean to tell me you believe this? Perfect saints full of the spirit. Yet you think Satan can brush aside billions of angelic beings , who are our helpers? Wow

[Mickiel]

 I would like to ask for an explanation about the millennium. Is it fair of me to ask for an explanation? Am I wrong for requesting that you explain your belief? Anyone who believes this.


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