Just what do you mean - Born Again?

[Mickiel]

Interesting that Nicodemus came to Jesus by night with his questions. He did not understand the new birth and the phrase "Born again." Jesus kept it simple , teaching that which is born of flesh , well surprise it comes out of the fleshly womb as a fleshy baby. Conversely, (  conversely means a statement or idea which reverses one that has just been made or referred to.) That which is born  again by a Spirit , is itself now a spirit being. My goodness , the simplicity is so misunderstood   that Jesus wanted to teach this himself. It's like me saying that which is born of a cat, is a cat, because animals give birth to animals. Humans give birth to humans. Spirit gives birth to spirit beings. It's academic.

[Mickiel]

In John 1:33 I have said before that a believer has the Holy Spirit visit them from time to time , or when they have it perminently , the Bible calls that the spirit remaining. It no longer comes and goes , it "Remains". It is an integral part of your life now , and will never leave you. John said in 1:33 we can recognize Jesus because he will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and you shall see the spirit descending and remaining on him. Having the spirit remaining in you while your still flesh, is being born from above. Yet we must be careful , 1John 3:9 says whoever is "Born of God", does not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him:and he cannot sin, because he is Born of God. So this version of being Born of God is much more powerful IF they are still in the flesh. So I am not sure about the proper interpretation here. The spirit is remaining so their born from above, but to say they cannot sin puzzles me because they are seemingly still human.

[Mickiel]

In John 1:33 I have said before that a believer has the Holy Spirit visit them from time to time , or when they have it perminently , the Bible calls that the spirit remaining. It no longer comes and goes , it "Remains". It is an integral part of your life now , and will never leave you. John said in 1:33 we can recognize Jesus because he will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and you shall see the spirit descending and remaining on him. Having the spirit remaining in you while your still flesh, is being born from above. Yet we must be careful , 1John 3:9 says whoever is "Born of God", does not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him:and he cannot sin, because he is Born of God. So this version of being Born of God is much more powerful IF they are still in the flesh. So I am not sure about the proper interpretation here. The spirit is remaining so their born from above, but to say they cannot sin puzzles me because they are seemingly still human.

So the spirit remaining and the seed remaining are either similar or the same thing
.

[Mickiel]

I believe the times of the spirit remaining are yet to come. I know many believers disagree with that, and I understand. I just don't think we understand what having God's spirit remaining will produce for anyone to see it's fruit coming out of you. A very powerful fertilization would be taking place. The ovule of the flowering spirit containing a very powerful embryo which germinates  to produce new perminant fruit 🍓🍑 of the spirit. God's seed is a startling storehouse , perhaps a super plumule which develops things we hold little idea of. A development factory way pass anything we have ever seen.

[Mickiel]

I believe the times of the spirit remaining are yet to come. I know many believers disagree with that, and I understand. I just don't think we understand what having God's spirit remaining will produce for anyone to see it's fruit coming out of you. A very powerful fertilization would be taking place. The ovule of the flowering spirit containing a very powerful embryo which germinates  to produce new perminant fruit 🍓🍑 of the spirit. God's seed is a startling storehouse , perhaps a super plumule which develops things we hold little idea of. A development factory way pass anything we have ever seen.

I am impressed at Acts 2:17 "God says It shall be done in the last days I shall pour out my spirit on everybody. This mass dispensation opens parts of Jesus heart to everyone

[Mickiel]

I believe the times of the spirit remaining are yet to come. I know many believers disagree with that, and I understand. I just don't think we understand what having God's spirit remaining will produce for anyone to see it's fruit coming out of you. A very powerful fertilization would be taking place. The ovule of the flowering spirit containing a very powerful embryo which germinates  to produce new perminant fruit 🍓🍑 of the spirit. God's seed is a startling storehouse , perhaps a super plumule which develops things we hold little idea of. A development factory way pass anything we have ever seen.

I am impressed at Acts 2:17 "God says It shall be done in the last days I shall pour out my spirit on everybody. This mass dispensation opens parts of Jesus heart to everyone

I am a firm believer in how God tends to give his spirit out to humans. Nobody can place a numerical speculation and thus limit how God does things. We can study how he has done things. In the giving of his spirit out to humans, he has given his spirit to certain prophets and kings, like David.I see no scriptorial evidence  in the old testament outside of that where God gives his spirit to any group of people. Including Israel.  Fast forward to the new testament and we see God giving out his spirit again to prophets , disciples and small groups of churches.

Fast forward to these times we now live in , I see no evidence of God giving out his spirit to a church. As far as individuals , it's possible, but I have never met any.

[Mickiel]

Jesus reveals that it's not for you to know  the times or the seasons , which the Father has put in his own power, Acts 1:7-8 , but you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you, and you shall become Witnesses of me. Here is another key to know if you have God's Spirit remaining in you; you will receive power from God himself. We can know and physically feel power that is added to our body, even so we can know when God has added spirit power to you. All the fruit of the Spirit will come out of you. , And you will be a good witness for God.,,,In Acts 4:31 after they were filled with the Spirit they spoke the word of God with boldness!.this does not mean God will have a church that is largely silent and act as if the gospel is their secret. Something has muted these kinds of believers who think speaking the truth is casting pearls on swine. They would rather call people pigs than to share the truth with them. So even anointed people need maturing in the spirit , when given the spirit. It's like someone giving you a bomb. You now have power  but it will need maturing or you will hurt people.

[Ross]

Paul makes some good observations;

1 Cor 3;1-3 " And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as spiritual, but as fleshly- as to babies in Christ; I fed you with milk
                    and not with meat, for you were not yet able, but not yet even now are you able, for you are fleshly, for where there is
                     among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are you not fleshly and walk in the manner of men?"

1Cor 3;7  " So that neither is he who is planting anything, nor he who is watering, but He Who is giving growth- God"

2 Cor 1;22 " God sealed us and gave us His Spirit as a guarantee."

2 Cor 5;5 " God prepared us and gave us His Spirit as a guarantee."


Gal 4;19 " ...children for whom I am in birth of childbirth until Christ is formed in you."

Eph 4;23 .." ...renewed is the spirit of your mind."

So an indication of this new mind set should be statements like Paul makes to the Philippians;
Phil 3;10 " Know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings."

Peter makes some statement about how to recognise false teachers;

2 peter 2;2,3 " Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be maligned, and they will exploit you
                    with their false words."

2 Peter 2;10 " Those who in polluting lust indulge the flesh and despise authority. Bold and insolent people not afraid to slander
                      angelic majesties."  [ a common modern day spiritual warfare outlook]

2 Peter 2;17,18 " Be on your guard that you are not led astray by the error of these lawless people, speaking arrogant words of vanity
                          they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, promising freedom..."

Jude 1;16 " These are murmurers and complainers, walking after their lusts- and their mouths speaks proud things- showing
                 respect of persons to gain advantage.

Jude 1;19 " These are those who cause divisions and are sensual, not having the spirit."

Seems that to be aware of these things is an indication of being renewed in the mind/born anew.

[Mickiel]

Greetings,
Paul does have something to offer, I like his thoughts on all things , I believe he had  the    spirit

[Mickiel]

Greetings,
Paul does have something to offer, I like his thoughts on all things , I believe he had  the    spirit

When Paul was addressing the Roman Saints, his message was Universal    and it included us all , even today..in 1Thess.4:8 it is God who gives the spirit. And what does the spirit look like , I think it looks like you. It is to be yours forever. You will "Put it on", and it will fit like a glove. We can't get it too late or to soon. We will be in the Kingdom.

[Mickiel]

Paul's versions on the new birth are of interest.

So what do you mean "Transfiguration"? It comes from the Latin roots "Trans- ,(  Across), and figura, ( form and shape) it thus signifies a change of form or appearance. I keep seeing  change as one common agreeing point amount the writers. A change of form or appearance.

[Mickiel]

Paul's versions on the new birth are of interest.

So what do you mean "Transfiguration"? It comes from the Latin roots "Trans- ,(  Across), and figura, ( form and shape) it thus signifies a change of form or appearance. I keep seeing  change as one common agreeing point amount the writers. A change of form or appearance.

In Luke 9:29 ,we are blessed to be able to see some of the heavenly garments Jesus was styling; and the fashion of his countenance was altered , not only his clothes changed, his skin and his mood changed. Keep up with these changes and you will see them else where in scripture. His raiment changed and the mood changed from the sadness to the joy. Jesus was getting ready for the party. A party that will shake the heavens and the earth.

[Mickiel]

Interesting that Jesus gathered with him witnesses to see and record this stunning event. Now notice closer ; and he went up into  a mountain to pray.  And as he prayed,get that , now this is happening while Jesus is praying. As he prayed his fashion changed and  his mood changed. His new raiment was white and shinning.
Everything about Jesus  was changing, he continues to pray ,  yet as he prayed his fashion changed and his raiment changed , his whole countenance had changed. Oohh that's some serious alteration .His old clothes were destroyed and discarded . Jesus now has an   interest in his new birth.

[Mickiel]

The way Jesus looks now , as far as we know, his clothes are white mostly, , his skin , or if  we can call it that, is very bright. His hair is now white like sheep wool. And his area from his legs and ankles have a dark bronze appearance, some have described it as "Reddish", scriptures do support these.like God , he appears multicolored. They may be changelings .These are the unearthly and being born again may well begin like this.

[Mickiel]

The way Jesus looks now , as far as we know, his clothes are white mostly, , his skin , or if  we can call it that, is very bright. His hair is now white like sheep wool. And his area from his legs and ankles have a dark bronze appearance, some have described it as "Reddish", scriptures do support these.like God , he appears multicolored. They may be changelings .These are the unearthly and being born again may well begin like this.

Rev.1:12-16 is of further discription.  He was clothed from his midsection to down to his feet. . On his chest was a golden garment. His head and hair  color was similar to being  white like wool, and as white as snow. Some of our black brothers should look closer at this, they think it says his hair was like wool texture,  no it was talking about color , even saying It was as white as snow.  His feet was like fine brass , as if they burned them in a furnace. Now those blacks who are looking for a bit of their race in Jesus ,. You are better off using his feet for your argument. Their are several races that can see some similar characteristics, which they should look I see absolutely nothing wrong with race doing as such. His voice had a sound of many waters,  perhaps in a water fall or a storm.


And he was armed with stars in his hand. And out of his mouth was The sound of many waters. Wow

[Mickiel]

We will look so different ourselves during this happy 😊 joyful 🥰 occasion. In Rev.22/4 , his name shall be in their foreheads. I wonder if that means literally like a tattoo, or just a part of our consciousness. Either way shows a closeness. In vs. 5 another interesting possibility, there will be no night, no need for candles or sunlight , the Lord God gives us light,  and THEY shall reign for ever and ever. Reign with God forever,, Whew just the thought of that possible meaning, it all looks good, salvation is a marvelous wonder.

[Mickiel]

1Peter 1 and 3rd verse is of interest.  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus  who according to his aboundant mercy  has begotten  us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead. Begotten again.
You can pull-up Bible gateway.com on 1peter 1and 3rd verse and it should give you a large list of how differently this verse is translated . Notice how the AMP
Version hits on it/ most Gradifying.

[Mickiel]

Read the CEB,may the God and Father of our. Lord Jesus Christ be blessed. On account of his vast mercy.,he has given us new birth, you have been born anew into a living hope through the resserection of Jesus Christ from the Dead.. perfect scriptures , harming no one, helping you and everyone else. So if a believer claims to be born  again then praise God. Love God and love his people and love have mercy that is being like God our living. Love is the balm the physical check up.the check up that men like me will fail. But we have a balm In Gilead, a cure worthy of praise.

[Mickiel]

Read the CEB,may the God and Father of our. Lord Jesus Christ be blessed. On account of his vast mercy.,he has given us new birth, you have been born anew into a living hope through the resserection of Jesus Christ from the Dead.. perfect scriptures , harming no one, helping you and everyone else. So if a believer claims to be born  again then praise God. Love God and love his people and love have mercy that is being like God our living. Love is the balm the physical check up.the check up that men like me will fail. But we have a balm In Gilead, a cure worthy of praise.
[/quote


That we have a black in Gillead, in China it needs a balm, in Russia it needs a balm, the whole world is sick a  it's whole heart faint.

[Mickiel]

The world is sick, it's whole heart. Faint. The world falls  into sin quickly.

Like a giant lake of unconscious quick sand. The world needs savior.

[Mickiel]

On the vast of good love. And a vast of good mercy, and a vast of salvation love in bunches. This is a vast walk of life..

[Ross]

The Fact that God can ,and will, do more than we can think or ask is what makes the future literally awesome.

[Ross]

Missed out the more than we can imagine.
Looking at the current movies trying to impress the masses ,and yet they only scratch the surface.

[marie glen]

Hello :hiya: I haven?t been here for a while.. I keep forgetting! I?m in UR/CU groups on facebook. I?ve learned UR believers come in all stripes!
    Biggest danger?! Downplaying the written Logos of God. Logos - ?reasoning expressed in words?. God?s reasoning! Why would a believer/follower want to ignore it!? 🍞+🍷=🥳 and ultimately 😇.
    Jesus, the Son, and ?forever first/proto?, the only straight out from God one.. is the prototype! ?We shall be like Him.? ..?Let us (Father and Son) make mankind in our image?. [If the option to stray had been left out of Eden, so would thinking and reasoning ability have to be absent as well. (Surely?) That the option was so visible and placed prominently ?in the middle of the garden? and man and woman and the universe (flesh/matter) were not created until the first bound to occur, rebel thought not only occurred but had ripened into outright nefarious sedition, makes me think our Father wants to get this unavoidable(?) lesson over with. Unavoidable if we are to be endowed with the ability to think, thus sooner or later to make choices - He engineered it so ?all in  heaven and Earth? take this journey all together at once. He?s SUCH a genius, yes?]
     Lately I?ve been thinking of this whole thing as ?the parable of the rotton apple? - and no the apple (surely?) was noT the bad apple in Eden! lol
     Once the apple begins to decompose, will it, or can it reverse its course and become whole, perfect and beautiful? God, it seems to me has left the decomposing apple on the counter for all to see. It is dust to dust. The wage/result of straying/hamartia - ?missing the mark? is death. Straying from God who (surely?) is Life itself, and ?is perfect? (Mt.5:48) therefor makes imperfect to be the opposite to Life. Like a disease which prognosis is dire indeed - namely not being.
    So ?the worm that doesn?t cease? until back to dust, is imperfection, missing the mark of perfection, called sin. And God condemned it - Ro.8:3 - in the flesh/matter - which is all still playing out. Like a very grand drama proving Good from evil/notGood, Life from notLife. ?As a plan of the ages? both life and ?day? of judgment being the court. Ro.3:4 - Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, that You may be proved right in what you say, and You will win Your case in court.? (Popular in some UR circles is a judging of God and the Old Testament - He gets grief for not stopping evil and gets grief for stopping great evils when He did! Being ?perfect? of course he?s done and does all things just as he has and does, in order to bring about the utter best of all possible ?end? results. (The greek word is ?tel? and means ?end-aim? a real ?tel? in this poker game of Life, if I ever heard one, lol.)
   God began pouring out His Spirit/Presence on that Pentecost following the Lord?s brief first advent. Jesus said ?these (not yet saved/still wild weeds/goats) will rise into aionion-kolasis/eonian-correction? Mt.25:46. Some being ?corrected? now, and some during ?the judgment?(upon the ?last great day? the ?8th day? which is ?after the thousand years? Rev.20, ?the rest of the dead rise not until after the thousand years? - of which Jn.7:37 is a glimpse and type of that ?8th day??)
     Any (unlikely) stubborn hold outs after age of correction will be finally purified at the fiery ReGenesis(?) An event, imo, not a ?place? at all! - Rev.21:1-5; 2Pet.3:12-13. ?Meant for Satan and his angels?? As that?s the process required for them? (Jude vs.7 telling us ?the example of aionion hellfire is what happened to Gomorrah and cities.?
   Also popular these days is the idea/teaching that all prophecy has been fulfilled, and along with that, all are now saved - which is worse than the ?all are magically born again at death? belief, oiye!! Victims of genocide, etc, etc, at least deserve their abusers to undergo deep gut wrenching remorse! Weeping, gnashing of teeth and some outer darkness - INITIALLY - during that great ?day?! GWT ?day? being also a great day of review? Pounding/driving home the lesson?
   I?m working on something (brief) for my (pretty much unknown) blog/page on facebook https://www.facebook.com/Inner-Monastery-107763128470962/ I will come back and post here, as it fits, I think, this good, berean discussion/study. :Peace2:
     P.S. amen, what a day of ?lawlessness? we are in these days! The ?class? of lawlessness is predominant? Or it just looks that way? Two fruits maturing and ripening..
     

[Mickiel]

NJ

Missed out the more than we can imagine.
Looking at the current movies trying to impress the masses ,and yet they only scratch the surface.

You have much to  say here. It's like listening to a speech on differing topics  one that requires the reader to read and study.I like that, make me study.