Just what do you mean - Born Again?

[darryl]

i prefer 'born from above'.... :gimmefive:

[Mickiel]

i prefer 'born from above'.... :gimmefive:

I like the phraseology "Born from above." It makes sense. If only some believers could make more sense of scriptures. I have said our spirit bodies have already been created and preserved in heaven. They are in safe places and will not deteriate. That makes sense . When Christ returns and many shall be changed, in a moment , in the twinkling of an eye,[ or very fast,), the phraseology the bible keeps using is we "Put on incorruption," we put it on because its already made. 1Corinth.
15:51-54. It makes more sense to change our consciousness and put it inside a new body, than to change an old body to a new one. Does that make sense? I mean do I reason like a lunitic or does it make sense?

[jabcat]

i prefer 'born from above'.... :gimmefive:

Yes Darryl, that's actually the original Greek for "born again";  born from above.

Strong's indicates;  313/anagenn?ō ("born again, from above") is used  in the NT in (1 Pet 1:3,23)-  referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).



So connecting to the OP;  I BELIEVE/UNDERSTAND it as, that elsewhere Paul explains what getting our new body means;  "to wit, the redemption of our bodies". 

I see him as describing salvation as the initial renewal of the spirit (born again/from above), the salvation of the soul (sanctification, "growing in grace and knowledge") and then "finally, the redemption of our body" (when we are given immortality).

I imagaine others have other insight and can add to that understanding :)

:dsunny:

[Mickiel]

What do our new spirit bodies look like? 1Corinth. 15:49 , And as we have borne the image of the earthy, or human, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly,or have similar features of heavens population. Such as firefly eyes, hair white like wool. Skin like emeralds. Your not born again if you have not been changed , or if you still " The natural man", or earthy , or human 1Corintth. 15:46-48.  The first man Adam, was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickened spirit  We prefer the language "Born from above", because the second man is the Lord from heaven.

If you can be killed your not born again . If you had toothache last night, your not born again . If your still human , with blood in your body , you have not inherited the kingdom of God yet your inherited body is already made and only your Spirit will inherit that. The inheritance is that new body, born again to be yours forever

[joeteekay]

Jesus Christ was sent to the House of Israel (mainly Jews) Mat 15:24. The words He spoke were for His own people, not to the gentiles (nations). It was the Apostle Paul who preached the gentiles and to some Jews who would listen with a message quite different from those which the 12 Apostles taught. Christ spoke to Nicodemus saying you must be born again. To be born again as Christ described it is to be as He became after He was raised from the tomb. Although now a spirit Being, He could manifest Himself in human form if He wanted as He did to His disciples (Mark 16:12 and Mark 16:14). This physical appearance had flesh and bones but no blood. So it will be for those resurrected into the Kingdom of the Lord (Millennium)

ps.s Happy to see a post from rosered and GodisLove

[Mickiel]

Jesus Christ was sent to the House of Israel (mainly Jews) Mat 15:24. The words He spoke were for His own people, not to the gentiles (nations). It was the Apostle Paul who preached the gentiles and to some Jews who would listen with a message quite different from those which the 12 Apostles taught. Christ spoke to Nicodemus saying you must be born again. To be born again as Christ described it is to be as He became after He was raised from the tomb. Although now a spirit Being, He could manifest Himself in human form if He wanted as He did to His disciples (Mark 16:12 and Mark 16:14). This physical appearance had flesh and bones but no blood. So it will be for those resurrected into the Kingdom of the Lord (Millennium)

ps.s Happy to see a post from rosered and GodisLove

Yes very well written on the topic of being born again , however I have problems with your suggestion that Jesus was sent to the house of Israel, not to the gentiles. Yea I have trouble with that.

[joeteekay]

Hi Mickiel,

I realize what you are saying. Seems to me that Jesus never went beyond the borders of Judea, Galilee and Samaria as did the Apostle Paul who went throughout most of the civilized world at that time with the gospel.

Mat 15:21  Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 
Mat 15:22  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 
Mat 15:23  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 
Mat 15:24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 
Mat 15:25  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 
Mat 15:26  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 
Mat 15:27  And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 
Mat 15:28  Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. 

Anyway your point is well taken. Always something to discuss from scripture.  :friendstu:

https://bible-history.com/new-testament/galilee-time-of-jesus

[Mickiel]

Greetings Joeteekay ,

Hope all is well with you. Yes it's always something to discuss about scripture. You have an interesting name , quite unusual. Peace.

[Mickiel]

So was Jesus preaching limited? Was he sent only to Jews?some buy into this and it's really an attempt to uplift one group over another. Those who do this do not understand their Bible and need to move closer to Christ there is a great truth going on, in 1John 4:14 "We have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be savior to everyone , all are included." Our Savior is multinational and his gospel cannot be limited in a Bible study.believers who get caught up in meaningless conversation that limits Jesus in any kind of way where salvation is concerned , should either ask for a mind that sees salvation , or just back away from the table and study a bit more, you'll eventually see it, it's your destiny to see it. To see all are saved is a stunning salvation. God bless us, we need it

[Mickiel]

The new birth does not need be instantaneous. , Although it can be , like the thief on the cross next to Christ, he got an everlasting picture to display in the Kingdom on his shelf. Being in Christ is a new beginning that will lead to a new birth . If any man ,( any man does not have religious doctrines that can draw lines which cut men out ). Be in Christ he is a new creature , old thins have passed away, and all things become new.now we are reconciled to Christ himself, something your religion cannot do God was in his Son reconciling the WORLD to himself.

How come this never goes viral on the internet?  God in Christ reconciling the world to himself.the new birth begins here.we now have the ministry of reconciliation. A very important key here.God and Christ reconciling the whole world and not imputing their sins against them.2Corinth.5;17-20. Sin had to be dealt with first and then we "Become "ambassadors for Christ.Now we are nearer to the new birth

[Mickiel]

The New birth need not be instant, it can begin with reconciliation , or refreshing. Acts 3:19.. and notice that the "Times" of refreshing come from the Lord. This is leading to a New Birth. Making every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy,without holiness no one will see the Lord. To claim you have been born again now is to then claim you can see God now. This ought to weed out a few hard liners. But selfish holiness is amongst the worst to penetrate. Giving God the whole heart reconciliation begins here , you no longer conform to the pattern of this world , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.In most cases that's like digging through mud. One sister may handle it well, another may have a few problems with reconciliation. If they will not listen try taking a few brothers with you, you may shake them loose from the tight pull of blindness. We need to take a bath to get to
get this stuff off. A holy bath , a baptism of truth.

[Mickiel]

The New birth need not be instant, it can begin with reconciliation , or refreshing. Acts 3:19.. and notice that the "Times" of refreshing come from the Lord. This is leading to a New Birth. Making every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy,without holiness no one will see the Lord. To claim you have been born again now is to then claim you can see God now. This ought to weed out a few hard liners. But selfish holiness is amongst the worst to penetrate. Giving God the whole heart reconciliation begins here , you no longer conform to the pattern of this world , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.In most cases that's like digging through mud. One sister may handle it well, another may have a few problems with reconciliation. If they will not listen try taking a few brothers with you, you may shake them loose from the tight pull of blindness. We need to take a bath to get to
get this stuff off. A holy bath , a baptism of truth.

I am really quite serious when I say believers who claim they are born again are hard liners. They do not easily let go of what they perceive as rightousness. Let's examine Jesus teachings much closer. John 3:3-8; "Verily, Verily I say to you , except a man be born again , he cannot see the Kingdom of God". He cannot see it's spiritual geographic location. With the human eye , we can look and see the Sun , and that's about 93 million miles. The Moon is 238,855 miles from earth. We can see that far with the naked eye, but we cannot see the Kingdom of God  unless we are born again.Jesus tightens his grip in vs.5 and teaches except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Now the self righteous Pharisee Nicodemus is choking on the truth

[Mickiel]

Now we cannot see with our eyes or enter with our bodies , the exalted Kingdom of God. Now Jesus , in vs.5-8,  explain the obvious difference between flesh and spirit. That which is born of flesh, is just that- flesh. A human coming from the mother's womb.  They are human with  a human body. Conversely , that which is born of spirit is spirit - they are NOT human. They can see the Kingdom no matter where it is.

[Mickiel]

Jesus goes further with his teaching , making a clear comparison between the wind and a born again individual, they can't be seen by the human eye. A surgical strike to the coming believers that he knew would attack his teachings. Again simplicity , it takes no theologian to understand this simple truth. But my goodness it shows how believers will grab hold of deception , hold to it so tight,  that they love it. Satan knows how to make humans fall in love with deception.

[jabcat]

The New birth need not be instant, it can begin with reconciliation , or refreshing. Acts 3:19.. and notice that the "Times" of refreshing come from the Lord. This is leading to a New Birth. Making every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy,without holiness no one will see the Lord. To claim you have been born again now is to then claim you can see God now. This ought to weed out a few hard liners. But selfish holiness is amongst the worst to penetrate. Giving God the whole heart reconciliation begins here , you no longer conform to the pattern of this world , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.In most cases that's like digging through mud. One sister may handle it well, another may have a few problems with reconciliation. If they will not listen try taking a few brothers with you, you may shake them loose from the tight pull of blindness. We need to take a bath to get to
get this stuff off. A holy bath , a baptism of truth.

I am really quite serious when I say believers who claim they are born again are hard liners. They do not easily let go of what they perceive as rightousness. Let's examine Jesus teachings much closer. John 3:3-8; "Verily, Verily I say to you , except a man be born again , he cannot see the Kingdom of God". He cannot see it's spiritual geographic location. With the human eye , we can look and see the Sun , and that's about 93 million miles. The Moon is 238,855 miles from earth. We can see that far with the naked eye, but we cannot see the Kingdom of God  unless we are born again.Jesus tightens his grip in vs.5 and teaches except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Now the self righteous Pharisee Nicodemus is choking on the truth

As far as " anyone who thinks they're born again is a hardliner";  maybe that's just how they understand the scriptures.  Maybe they look at the issue differently.  Maybe they think the kingdom of God isn't talking about "heaven someday", but living now in a new relationship with Jesus in the kingdom now that Jesus said "is in/among you".  Maybe they see that to mean a new spiritual creation - now - can experience what Paul described the kingdom of God as being "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit".

  Someone else - you, me, a Baptist or Pentecostal minister - may have been given a piece of revelation/insight that the person beside them/you/me don't quite have yet have.  Pieces of the puzzle.

Part of the reason we ask here that we post in the spirit of "as I understand, I believe".   :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

The New birth need not be instant, it can begin with reconciliation , or refreshing. Acts 3:19.. and notice that the "Times" of refreshing come from the Lord. This is leading to a New Birth. Making every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy,without holiness no one will see the Lord. To claim you have been born again now is to then claim you can see God now. This ought to weed out a few hard liners. But selfish holiness is amongst the worst to penetrate. Giving God the whole heart reconciliation begins here , you no longer conform to the pattern of this world , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.In most cases that's like digging through mud. One sister may handle it well, another may have a few problems with reconciliation. If they will not listen try taking a few brothers with you, you may shake them loose from the tight pull of blindness. We need to take a bath to get to
get this stuff off. A holy bath , a baptism of truth.

I am really quite serious when I say believers who claim they are born again are hard liners. They do not easily let go of what they perceive as rightousness. Let's examine Jesus teachings much closer. John 3:3-8; "Verily, Verily I say to you , except a man be born again , he cannot see the Kingdom of God". He cannot see it's spiritual geographic location. With the human eye , we can look and see the Sun , and that's about 93 million miles. The Moon is 238,855 miles from earth. We can see that far with the naked eye, but we cannot see the Kingdom of God  unless we are born again.Jesus tightens his grip in vs.5 and teaches except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Now the self righteous Pharisee Nicodemus is choking on the truth

As far as " anyone who thinks they're born again is a hardliner";  maybe that's just how they understand the scriptures.  Maybe they look at the issue differently.  Maybe they think the kingdom of God isn't talking about "heaven someday", but living now in a new relationship with Jesus in the kingdom now that Jesus said "is in/among you".  Maybe they see that to mean a new spiritual creation - now - can experience what Paul described the kingdom of God as being "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit".

  Someone else - you, me, a Baptist or Pentecostal minister - may have been given a piece of revelation/insight that the person beside them/you/me don't quite have yet have.  Pieces of the puzzle.

Part of the reason we ask here that we post in the spirit of "as I understand, I believe".   :thumbsup:

I am no different than anyone else here. As I understand I believe.

[Mickiel]

I sincerely mean everything I believe and write. I believe like Paul did, many  believers are"Kings before the time." In other words they take the Kingdom by force of their belief. They read somewhere that we will "Rule with Christ with an iron hand. So many have read Rev.2:27 , and for years theirs churches taught this stuff with impunity. In some areas it became like developing another type of slavery . You know, the poison of super authority. Creating a new kind of slavery inside of the Kingdom , one man rule over an area. Just another way for man to
Lord it over others.

Oh yes I know some think that they see a new spiritual way , I recognize the spirit as it seems to give itself more and more power.

Perhaps you can excuse my weakness and being out of place

[Mickiel]

There exist an ugly side even to salvation, in my view it's ugly. In Rev.2:27 , ( the NLT version), "They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots " . The term "Rod", refers to a Shepard's staff. Jesus is not going to beat his people , nor allow them to beat each other. But some  believers covet that , it's what they would like to do. You know, if a few get out of line , you just get that rod and beat some sense into them. Trained to think this way for years. Heads so swollen with pride and order , they forget that you rule by loving the people. I know I am loosing respect and agreement here, but That's okay, I was not fishing for it anyway. If Jesus chooses some to rule , you best believe it will be done out of love , not some barbarian stick. Goodness.

[Mickiel]

I think most of a called out person's deceptions will have come from their church experience. I know mine has. They are easy to digest , much harder to exhale. Easier to gain weight , but much harder to loose it. Easier to tell a lie , and harder to admit to it and repent of it. I guess it was different in the Old Testament. Let's see who was born again in the OT? No one I know of off hand. Well who is the first one in the NT?  We can say Jesus , I personally wouldn't say anything after that . You ever notice how it's hard to defend some church doctrine?

[Mickiel]

Yes a lot of deception has come from inside. Inside churches, inside homes.  In 2Cornth.5: ,the whole chapter really.  Paul is making a case for the new birth here. I. Think he is. "For we know if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved , we have a building of God, a house not made with hands , eternal in the heavens. Paul was referring to an experience not of earth, and he gave "Location", the heavens. In 5:2 he said "Desireing to be clothed", with our house in heaven.. I think Paul was seriously looking ahead to our house 🏠 in the eternal mode , knowing we can't see it or enter it without the new birth.

Now, let's examine vs 4-5 , for we who are in this tabernacle do groan being burdened , not for that we would be unclothed , but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. But God has given us the earnest of the spirit  we'll try to unpack this tomorrow.

[Mickiel]

Paul says in 2 Corinth.5:1 if our earthly house ( our bodies),  we're to die, we have a house ,( or bodie), not made with hands and it's eternal, that's being born again. Our  human flesh has dissolved , and you have one made in heaven. In our lives with God if we die we are given the earnest of the spirit. A pledge or a deposit is what it is , an earnest payment that is so glorious  it is sealed by God. Protected , fitted , and it is you waiting on both sides of the unique birth.

[joeteekay]

The debate continues as to what born again means. In a church I once attended there was a saying "so you think your born again hey, well give it the hair pin test (ie - poke your self with a pin and see if you feel it") That is kind of mean but it meant to show that we are still physical while in this flesh. It is true that figuratively we are in the Kingdom as Paul explains  in Col 1:13.

[Mickiel]

The debate continues as to what born again means. In a church I once attended there was a saying "so you think your born again hey, well give it the hair pin test (ie - poke your self with a pin and see if you feel it") That is kind of mean but it meant to show that we are still physical while in this flesh. It is true that figuratively we are in the Kingdom as Paul explains  in Col 1:13.

Yes the debate continues , I hope my views on it are clear. I do not view us as figuratively being ,,"In" the kingdom now. In my understanding the Kingdom is being prepared for us. I do hope the debate is not harmful to anyone. I can imagine trying to take candy from a baby , you just learn to only go so far.

[Mickiel]

In one sense if certain believers were to figuratively be considered in the Kingdom now , then the Kingdom is corrupt already.1Corinh. 15:50 flesh and blood cannot inherit, or live in it , in the flesh. Meaning you have the property now ,and will share your sin situation with your living. Whew man here is so much canned worms being unpacked with this belief.

[Mickiel]

The kingdom of God has location. It is a place and it has residents. Is refered to often as "Heaven", Paradise , the world Tomorrow. It is the home of God. You thus can live in it. God's throne is there and millions of mansions and living abodes. Beware of the "I want everything and I want it now", spiritual syndrome. Because it tells me the believer now is the  time , now is the kingdom and the glory. It claims we can have all this spiritually in our flesh.


It's both stunning and cunning how this came to be.