Just what do you mean - Born Again?

[Mickiel]

 I get those "Somethings not right here ", goose bumps when I hear believers talk about themselves being born again. It's like they have crowned themselves king's before the time. Along with the thirst for righteousness  , should be the correctness  of being right. You give the eager  believer a pistol , he pulls the trigger without knowing if the gun is loaded. The timing of being born again I think is being rushed. Oh I believe in being born again but I don't think that happens in the flesh.
In 1Corinth. 4:6-8 Paul discussed an interesting principal , strong self righteous belief which can , vs 6- lead you To think of yourself above that which is written.  He warns that this way of thinking makes you different from others. And, vs 8,  you can become so full of yourself, that we think of ourselves as being Kings without the rest of the brethren , Kings before the time. But the scripture promises that, so it's one of these topics that has a strong pacification of self. It's like trying to take candy from a child; they say "No , you gave it to me and I want it now. Being born again is one of the biggest sweets in scripture 💕😂. Let us then consider the topic with strong desire to be correct.

Jesus in John 3: 3-8 Jesus teaches in verse 3  that except a man be born again , he cannot see the Kingdom of God. So to those who claim to be born again, explain to us  how the Kingdom of God looks. We cannot see it unless your born again. Right off the scripture is making it difficult to claim your born again because I can rightly challenge you to explain what the Kingdom of God looks like.

In verse 5 , Jesus states that except a man be born of water and of spirit that he cannot even enter the Kingdom of God  Here is Jesus biggest clue and helpful insight for believers . In vs 6 , Jesus says that which is born of flesh IS flesh, that which is born of Spirit IS Spirit. You can't have it both ways . A born again human is no longer human, or flesh. The truly born again believer is now a spirit being. You cannot be both born again and walking in a body of flesh.

[Mickiel]

In John 3:8 Jesus compared the wind blowing, we can hear that sound , but we don't know where it comes from, or where it's going, back then Jesus meant that we can't see it because it's invisible. So it is with a born again believer, they cannot be seen by the physical eye. Born again means just that, you were in a body of flesh, now your a totally different creature, a whole new being.

[Mickiel]

It would be a stretch of uncanny  twisting to find anyone in the Old testament who walked this earth after being born again. In the New testament maybe one person walked this earth after being born again. Other than Christ there are none. None that I can see then or now . If we can see you , then your not born again.

[jabcat]

There may be multiple facets, multiple things to consider;  but one way I see it is, being spritually renewed.  "Passed from death (spiritual) to life (spiritual)".  "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Lots to consider, but there is kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven.

In one place Paul said the kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit".   :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

There may be multiple facets, multiple things to consider;  but one way I see it is, being spritually renewed.  "Passed from death (spiritual) to life (spiritual)".  "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
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Yes I believe this, but being spiritually renewed is not being born again. Being spiritually renewed is getting charge up, or like getting a tune up. There will be those who will not have to see death, but even those must be born again. There is no aging process in the kingdom. To be born again you must first die, we suffer with him 2Tim.2:12  , we die with him 2Tim. 2;11, were buried with him Rom.6:4, we rise with him, Col. 2:12.
To pretend to be new creatures without the death of the old creature is unreasonable. 1John 5:18, whoever is born of God does not sin.

[Mickiel]

Again 2 Tim. 2:10-11,"Therefore I endure all things for the elect sake, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. One of the more powerful things we will endure is death. You're not a coward if you pray for those positions that will pass death and move on into life.  It still, vs 11, It's a faithful staying , "For if we be dead with him , we shall also live with him. Death is part of the equation to life eternal or we can say death is part of salvation ,part of the new birth. The second death is the death of first death. So with salvation will also be a death. That first death is the target for entrance into eternal life.

I won't go there but really being born again is a mistranslation of the Greek for being "Born from above". And even that can refer to water baptism. We don't need water baptism to be born again. When you are born again you will never sin anymore..
1Pet. 1:22-23 , you have been purified , born again , it is not of corruptible seed but of incorruption by the word of God forever. This kind of power will just wipe out all sin forever.

[Mickiel]

We're only human beings so some of us will seek the higher ground And
Try to avoid death. We want to be called ,. Chosen  and never die. And hey, it is possible, it is biblical.  Good fortune to those who try. Or is it God who dicides that?

[Mickiel]

Even those who will not see death must be born again. 1Corinth..15:51through 58, all of us will not die, but we shall all be changed. That s being born again, being changed from flesh to spirit. That  change must take place.it is a transference from flesh to spirit. That change is the new birth.

[Mickiel]

I do have a request to make that will help me understand what I am currently blind too. Please provide a list of any OT characters who were born again. Any follower of God that claimed to be born again. Or the NT.  Any disciples then Apostles who were born again.

[Mickiel]

Would someone step up and explain how the Kingdom of God looks, Jesus taught in John 3:3 that unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Peter taught when your born again your Imperishable , well I  will not ask you to take a. Bullet, requires too much faith to try that . But give us ,by the grace you have, how we can be saved.

[Mickiel]

That which is born of spirit is already a spirit. This stuff is exciting, people need to know

[Mickiel]

And these are just to help believers who are asleep. I have my pride and all
,  but I would rather you help me than to pass me by. You can't convert people but you can be a " Dream Weaver." These are hard times to walk in , especially if your alone. Satan has people scared to death of dying . I was one of them. Death is simply sleep.

Again 2 Tim. 2:10-11,"Therefore I endure all things for the elect sake, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. One of the more powerful things we will endure is death. You're not a coward if you pray for those positions that will pass death and move on into life.  It still, vs 11, It's a faithful staying , "For if we be dead with him , we shall also live with him. Death is part of the equation to life eternal or we can say death is part of salvation ,part of the new birth. The second death is the death of first death. So with salvation will also be a death. That first death is the target for entrance into eternal life.

I won't go there but really being born again is a mistranslation of the Greek for being "Born from above". And even that can refer to water baptism. We don't need water baptism to be born again. When you are born again you will never sin anymore..
1Pet. 1:22-23 , you have been purified , born again , it is not of corruptible seed but of incorruption by the word of God forever. This kind of power will just wipe out all sin forever. Because it's a stain. A nasty hurtful stain.it will make you feel like God is not with you. And so off  we go weak, carnal and now your a conjestion Being more hard on yourself than sin is.Your right at that kingdom place door. With your head in your hands.


Well you'd best get up and wash those hands,. salvation is not about anyone but you first. There is something about you and me  and us! God predetermined you for life in this day and time. Because he needed you in this whirlwind of evil. Modern day sin is rough and tuff. People going nuts, the church getting idolized, and fear has raped your peace.  The people said to the believer ,"mister your nuts.

[rosered]

I enjoyed the reading but   remember Jesus telling Nicodemus you must be born again and agree it is born from above by the HOLY SPIRIT,  as you said .
Jesus to me by example really loved His Father and was Born from above and done the SAME works of the Father to Honor and glorify Him and make him proud to call him His son .
Jesus explained that in John 8  The Children of the Devil
?43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!?

1 john 2 Do Not Love the World
14I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world?the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life?is not from the Father but from the world.?

We carry in us all the corruptible image, first born in Adam all die and in Christ shall be made alive and this is the incorruptible image /Word of God.

The serpent lied in the garden to Eve by saying you shall not die , that was a LIE .Making him a murderer of the innocent from that tempting .
Jesus being the  Way and truth and the Life said  , John 8:24 told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins." no one can come to the Father except though Him .
But  those whom die in Christ  rise first . 1 Thess 4 The Return of the Lord
?15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.?

Makes me wonder what the great cloud of witnesses ALIVE TO GOD means exactly .


Just another example to consider was Abraham by faith considered his body as good as dead already . 
the temptation to sin was thwarted by that kind of faith in God before Christ Jesus come to speak so openly in the new testament.[last by My Son ] Hebrews  11On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God?s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.?


      making Abraham the father of faith ,a type of father figure spoken of in 1 John 2known from the beginning .

We have love the truth above all things being born again is being born of truth that sets us free .   

Time constraints keep me from going any further, but enjoyed speaking about the Lord again . I have thought of being born again and what it means to not get tangled up in lies that bind us and keep us from true salvation . :HeartThrob:

[Mickiel]

What Jesus described in  John 3  is a total new birth, you are no longer human.
New knowledge is not a new birth. A great misunderstanding has tried to combine having a new understanding and being born again.

[Mickiel]

I was further reading and it was shown that we shouldn't love the world in 1John 2 we are shown love not the world, which strongly is rebuked in. John. 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave it the greatest gift conceivable , Jesus came here because God loves the world.

[jabcat]

I enjoyed the reading but   remember Jesus telling Nicodemus you must be born again and agree it is born from above by the HOLY SPIRIT,  as you said .
:HeartThrob:

Good to see you again rosie :)

Here's something I'll plug into the discussion from "bible verse study";

"ανωθεν (anothen), the original Greek word translated ?again,? more commonly means ?from above? or ?from on high? - i.e., from heaven. Jesus is saying that Nicodemus ?cannot see the kingdom of God? (John 3:3) because he has not received spiritual birth from heaven - i.e., from God."

[rosered]

What Jesus described in  John 3  is a total new birth, you are no longer human.
New knowledge is not a new birth. A great misunderstanding has tried to combine having a new understanding and being born again.

  Born of Spirit  , Yes ,  right .., ?Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ?You must be born again.?.

the washing of the water of the Word  and Spirit of Life ..

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I was further reading and it was shown that we shouldn't love the world in 1John 2 we are shown love not the world, which strongly is rebuked in. John. 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave it the greatest gift conceivable , Jesus came here because God loves the world.

I do not see it as a rebuke  at all.
God is LOVE  so He loves unconditionally
  we as   humans do not undertand the depths of love and God  , born again from above  is just beginning to grasp  any kind of wisdom .

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Good to see you again rosie :)

Here's something I'll plug into the discussion from "bible verse study";

"ανωθεν (anothen), the original Greek word translated ?again,? more commonly means ?from above? or ?from on high? - i.e., from heaven. Jesus is saying that Nicodemus ?cannot see the kingdom of God? (John 3:3) because he has not received spiritual birth from heaven - i.e., from God."


    Yes , Thank you it is born from above   , many other  scriptures confirm this  fact /truth   :HeartThrob:

[Mickiel]

There are certain scriptures that cannot be bargained with , when Jesus described what is being born again in John 3rd chapter, this cannot be challenged. In scripture if it's God speaking, it no longer matters what other writers have said. The same counts for Jesus , they trump all things written. Jesus described being born again, to be simply put, in easy to understand terms , the human In the flesh is changed totally into a spirit.

[Mickiel]

I would recommend reading the 8th  chapter of Romans.

[Mickiel]

Romans 8 the chapter goes over a lot , particularly how we can live "In the Spirit" ,and that be confused with being born again. 8:1 There is no condemnation to them who are in the spirit, who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit. Being In the flesh we cannot  please God. Paul continues to cut down the flesh. In vs. 23 the first fruits are a singled group. Noice they have the spirit in them , but the groan within themselves  , Why? They are waiting for the adoption ,the redemption of their Body  evident truth that a believer can have the spirit of God, but are still in the flesh.

[jabcat]

I don't have time to dig in and break this down right now, but I believe Paul (and other writings) make a distinction between the flesh (literal, clay) and the flesh (carnality, the "natural" man).  The literal earthly clay will apparently be shed at immortality - while the carnality/"walking in the flesh" can be limited and under subjection by walking in the Spirit (obedience, submission to God) even while here on earth.  Both always present in this life, but the flesh (carnality) doesn't have to be in total rule for the submitted believer.  Paul talked of crucifying his flesh.  I don't believe he was talking about his literal body, but the carnality/stubborn willfullnes (propensity to sin) that lived within him. 

I believe those are important distinctions to make.    :)

[Mickiel]

In1Pet. 1:3 blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which

Acording to his aboundant mercies "Has begotten us again unto a lively hope by the ressurection of Jesus from the dead that he has begotten us  again, notice all the ,the  things given to a believer in the flesh  , Peter still calls it a inheritance undefiled , fades not away and is being preserved in   heaven.. he does not even discuss being born again.
Why?
It says Jesus has begotten us a second time.

[Mickiel]

Now, where is our new inheritance? And what's our new inheritance? Vs 4,  to an inheritance incorruptible , an undefiled , it fades not away, reserved in heaven for you.  That is our new body being reserved , when we are placed into that body, we are born again. Any believer who states and believes that they are born again now, they are saying that they are living an incorruptible , undefiled life right now and have somehow gotten it from the reserved plate in heaven. You are also telling yourself and others, that you are not fading away, or dying, ever again. That contridiction is seen again in vs 5, who are kept by the power of God through faith into salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Oh but you take these into yourself  , right now your born again. There is nothing for God to reveal in the last days of this physical life. You are Kings before the time.

Well why do some believe this born again is in the flesh? Well because it's attractive. Aluring. Like sticking your hand in the bottle, now your belief is stuck. Oh but how good it must feel believing you have removed your inheritance from heaven, and changed the incorruptible to be living in your corruptible flesh.

[Mickiel]

In 1Pet.1:23-24, Being born again not of corruptible seed , or being in the flesh , but incorruptible by the word of God, for all flesh is like grass and it fades away.  The temptation is like your pupa has transferred itself into butterfly , right now and your not fading away. Or dying.

[Mickiel]

Now, what is inheritance , because it's already ours and being reserved in heaven? It's not a piece of paper contract, that will fade. Its not land or property. I say it's a new spirit body , it's your new body that cannot fade away, kept by the power of God through faith uno salvation. What else can be eternal , without sin ,  is kept by the power of God and has salvation ; Why it's describing another you. Your new body.

It's not land or property,  your birthright is being preserved . Your new birth. IT will be the reception of some new kind of spiritual genetic , that we don't now know. An instant transmission of God's own life essence , taking your conscience and placing it into your new self. Some of the qualities of our parent God, now living in you. You will never sin again. A stunning powerful  existence , don't fool yourself with a misunderstanding here.  A human cannot have this in the flesh. God bless you , I hope this can begin to be understood.