How do you read the Bible without ET mindset?

[gr8wuf]

Okay, I haven't actually read the Bible in a very long time especially since coming to a belief in UR. Why? Well first off I've been set free from the condemnation of not reading the Bible, but more so ...

When I want to read it, as I read I hear that old ET mindset and just seem to get confused.

Any suggestions as to how to approach a "re-reading" of sorts?

[jenna]

The best way I know of is to pray before reading. Ask God to open your mind to His truth, and free you from that mindset. Works for me! :2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen to that Jenna. And try praying and asking Father to remove every seed the ministry of condemnation that ministers death to the hearer, planted in you while you were under that ministry of tutors and govenors. Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed! Worked for me! Blessings to you.......

[gr8wuf]

Thanks, I SO appreciate this forum. I feel hope to hear the truth freely without fear.

[Pierac]

It also helps if you read Young's Literal Translation or Rotherhams's Emphasized Bible.  :thumbsup:

Paul

[dboutwell]

And, always, keep in mind the "aion" word. And, the fact that all men must repent(Acts 17)....that fact alone should help keep you on the restoration track instead of the  ET one.

God Bless  :grin:

Debbie

[jabcat]

Hi and welcome.  Keeping in mind 3 things helps me 1) aion 2) mistranslations of hell and what they really mean and 3) being careful to see much (all?) of Jesus' earthly ministry prior to His crucifixion as being to the Jews, and realizing He was speaking of the Jews about to lose their inheritance of privilege wrt Lazarus, "outer darkness", "worm dies not and fire not quenched", etc.  The other thing is to read a good translation such as (already mentioned) Young's, Modern Young's (available through Amazon.com) Concordant Version, or the Christian Bible (available from the Christian Bible Society in Mammoth Springs Arkansas [can Google it and mail order directly from them].  I have the Christian Bible and like it quite a bit.  It's touted as the the absolute most accurate to the Greek, but is very readable.  I highly recommend it.  I think when reading our "common/popular" translations that it is difficult to not see ET, because it's very much presented and reinforced in those versions.  I can understand why people have a difficult time with UR, given the way most people's translations read.  I won't read them anymore.  Anyway, God's blessing, James.

[hopeful]

The Lord has been teaching me the importance of being led of the Spirit in all things- including Bible reading.

Bible reading- sounds religious doesn't it?  How about reading the Bible?  Yes, that's better.

Many of us have to go through a cleansing of sorts to rid our minds of religion.  We've heard so much hype...  We've heard stuff like:

Let's read through the Bible in a year!    :cheerleader:

But if you miss a day then you're "behind" in your Bible reading and you have to catch up.  And if you don't have time for your complete reading, then you really get behind!  And what is meant to be a spiritual blessing and refreshing becomes a religious burden!  Can you imagine Jesus sweating over the scriptures trying to get "caught up" before He could leave for Samaria?  ~ Groan~  No! He did what the Father told Him to do and I think that's what many of us are learning too.

Well, gr8wuf, you've already been set free from having to catch up so maybe I wrote the above for the benefit of those who have not been set free or who don't understand where this thread is coming from.

Let's just all continue to wait upon the Lord to breathe His Life into our understanding of the scriptures that they might be light and joy to us- instead of "Bible reading".

:HeartThrob:

[Transponder]

This really comes across to me as 'Never mind what is in in the Bible - what really counts is what you believe".

Hopeful, you wrote:

"Bible reading- sounds religious doesn't it?  How about reading the Bible?  Yes, that's better.

Many of us have to go through a cleansing of sorts to rid our minds of religion.  We've heard so much hype... "

If Bible reading does not really matter, and the mind has to be rid of 'religion', then what actually is left? 

[firstborn888]

If Bible reading does not really matter, and the mind has to be rid of 'religion', then what actually is left? 

Makes me think of how Christianity did just fine before/without the bible. Now it seems unimaginable to most Christians. Why do you think that is?
blessings,
  - Byron

[Transponder]

If Bible reading does not really matter, and the mind has to be rid of 'religion', then what actually is left? 

Makes me think of how Christianity did just fine before/without the bible. Now it seems unimaginable to most Christians. Why do you think that is?
blessings,
  - Byron

From what i have read, it was just fine when people had the Bible interpreted to them by the Priests who were the only ones that could read it. No wonder they fought the translation into the vernacular. Since then, everyone has their own take on how they read it and Church authority goes with it. 

You may be thinking back to the earlier days. It seems that the same situation obtained then. Quite apart from Paul referring to apparent rival sects in Christianity before it had even got going, there were varied sects and views - based more or less on individual readings of the Bible, until the matter was brought under control by Constantine, as a matter of political neccessity. If course, that monolithic authority divided into various Churches - Latin, Greek, Coptic, Russian - but it was the translation into Vernacular, plus, I suppose the reformation, which meant that there were places where the Inquisition had no power, that led to a variety of religious takes.

I'd suggest that what has really powered the proliferation of view os general education; what is the point in having a Bible in English if you can't read? Ture, when the preacher reads from it, you can understand it, but you can't sit down and study it yourself.

When you learn to read, you can.

So the response to your point is, I suppose, that people managed without the Bible being kept under control by a class who used Bible authority as their tool. Since then, people are free to form their own religious views. But on what, if not the Bible?

[firstborn888]

If Bible reading does not really matter, and the mind has to be rid of 'religion', then what actually is left? 

Makes me think of how Christianity did just fine before/without the bible. Now it seems unimaginable to most Christians. Why do you think that is?
blessings,
  - Byron

From what i have read, it was just fine when people had the Bible interpreted to them by the Priests who were the only ones that could read it. No wonder they fought the translation into the vernacular.

I was referring to the early church - first 300 years.
  - byron

[hopeful]

This really comes across to me as 'Never mind what is in in the Bible - what really counts is what you believe".


If Bible reading does not really matter, and the mind has to be rid of 'religion', then what actually is left? 

What is left? God!   :girlheart: 

For me, life is not about what "matters" and what "counts". 
It's about Life, Light and Love!

[Transponder]

Which god?

[hopeful]

Which god?

I'm talking about the One I know.   :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

For me, there's truth in all these posts.  Life, love, walking in the Spirit..but to me, that doesn't include tossing aside the Bible...I believe anything the Spirit leads us in will line up with an accurate translation and understanding of scripture...otherwise we're drifting, and as such, can easily drift into false doctrine.  God's blessing.

[reFORMer]

The Concordant Literal Version brings us the evidence of the original Greek better that any other.  Search however you may and you can satisfy for yourself that this is true beyond doubt.  It also is an excellent translation and should definitely be used with the interlinear for detailed study.  The concordance (to the N.T.) is excellent and to rave about.  Among other things it offers very insightful and succinct definitions of the Greek words and tabulates how many times and with what words they were rendered by the still standard KJV.  It renders "eon[-s, ian]" (and "olam[-im]") the same in every occurrence consistent with the original language without dishonestly  and inconsistently substituting "eternal, for ever, the world" where convenient to be consistent with their prior doctrinal commitment, despising God's word.  While finished and available in various pieces, the Old Testament portion is yet to be issued in one volume.  I assume it's due to ignorance that any Christian doesn't take Scripture seriously enough to use the Concordant Literal.

Concerning what we commonly call the New Testament, (though that really is what is written by the Spirit of God in our hearts and minds) or, the Greek portion of the Holy Scriptures, Matthew through Revelation:  there is no reason not to accept that it was finished being written before 70 AD. and that vernacular versions were written by the apostles themselves before the close of the 1st Century.  Certainly we know many, probably those rightly considered the more important nations, had their own Bibles in their own languages with no historical reasons not to accept this was before the end of the 1st Century.  Bibles were very available and in the languages of the people before Constantine.  This was a grassroots hand copied phenomena apart from the false authority by officials usurping the place of the Holy Spirit in the developing bureaucracy of what became Christendom which in turn took early to destroying the vernacular versions, burning them by the cartload, killing many who possessed them as well as those manifesting spiritual gifts.

Only in the last couple of hundred years, actually mostly in the last 50 to 75 years, do we have to wonder at the motivations of some to change the dates of the N.T. and the vernacular versions to later times.  This was probably due initially to their desire to attract fellow Seminarians attention by being shocking and innovative, hoping to enhance their academic careers.  Of course a later gospel of John would be nice so any conviction over their salaries from being unfaithful "Doctors of the Law" can be silenced by claiming that Scriptural clash between those in bed with a religious institution and the true lovers of God is just newly developing anti-Jewish sentiment from gentile Christian communities.  Certainly the idea there can be no miracles, hence, no prophecy was a motive in the 1800's to post date the Hebrew Prophets.  Some lately seem suspicious because they are so strongly concerned to insist on discrediting the reliability of Scripture by this and other theories like multiple editors over the centuries (redactive criticism) and amplifying manuscript contradictions that are mostly only word order or obvious scribal mistakes.  Why this "debunking the Bible" is so endeared to them, rather than just sharing insights from life or Scripture, which they dubiously claim to accept in some lesser way, is certainly consistent with wanting to possess for themselves the authority they recognize there.  The emotive value in the name "Jesus" they want themselves to hold high as a banner for us to follow rather than it be firmly planted in Scripture's own authority.  Why it should all be so much later and so editorialized is they want to be the definers of their own "real Jesus."  Often there is a concern to be so relevant and approved by their peers they're practically assimilated into a Babylon they refuse to leave rather than that they might rebuild Zion which they'd as soon redefine as well.  For some it is a personal motive of not wanting to turn from some favored sin.  They expect to reverse the judgment of Scripture by popularizing approval of such sins in the minds of the people (as if there is no God to have a vested interest in all of this.)

[Transponder]

Which god?

I'm talking about the One I know.   :HeartThrob:

And what do you know? Let me put it another way; when you hear of a god that wants people to pray five times a day or one that needs offerings of clarified butter or perhaps one that doesn't think his priests should marry or another that considers prawns forbidden food, do you think 'yes-that's the one I know.' or is this 'god' a bit more non-specific?

[hopeful]

Hey, Transponder!  :HeartThrob:
If you really want to hear about the God I know, I'd be glad to tell you about Him but I'm not into debating.  We could either start another thread or talk by PM -that way we wouldn't take this thread off topic...

:happy3:

[Average_Bear]

Hi gr8wuf,

I can relate - after 20 years in the mainstream, its tough to overcome the E.T. mindset. In my early Christian days, I read the Bible a lot, even read through it many times. I also took formal courses in grad school and even got my M.A. in Missions, planning to be a missionary for life. But when that didn't work out, I neglected reading, only picking up the Bible on Sundays and special occassion. Only recently, after discovering U.R., I once again became interested in what the scriptures have to say. I wanted to see if what all these U.R. folks were saying was true and I have been amazed by what I had not even noticed before. I pray the Lord would help you to read and understand His message without it being corrupted by the distorted lens forced onto us by the teachers of E.T. and other such lies.  :Sparkletooth:

[reFORMer]

In the list of elementary principles or foundational teachings concerning Christ in Hebrews, the last of 6 categories the King James Version represents with the phrase:  "eternal judgment." (Heb 6²)  I was raised to read that as meaning "everlasting damnation."  In the Greek "eon" endless time is not here.  The judgment pertains to the long periods of time we might call "ages."  Judgment is simply to set things right.  It is "the setting things right according to the age in which they occur."  It is eon relevant justice.  This, with the other basic beginning understandings, is to be established as a basis for going on into maturity which is "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." (Eph 4)

Something that may be helpful is to listen to various teachings from those who have Christian Universalism, which is a true understanding of God's "eonian judgment," undergirding their faith.  Perhaps because of a more complete foundation, the deepest teachers I've found have this understanding.  Go to the Gary Sigler's site (the link I've provided should take you there) and access the audio messages on the left of his home page or through the Kingdom Links on the right side go to various ministers sites that know this truth and sometimes find more teachings there.  Maybe when you're crafting, or maybe you paint, or when cooking or cleaning, just start listening to the wonderful resources there.  It is a way I'm sure many could go farther into God through His written revelation.  Many keys to understanding Scripture await through that site.  These are the kind of things that can make the Bible open anew for you.

http://www.sigler.org/

I've asked God for hunger to know Him and His written word.  That desire I consider one of my geatest gifts.

[Transponder]

Hey, Transponder!  :HeartThrob:
If you really want to hear about the God I know, I'd be glad to tell you about Him but I'm not into debating.  We could either start another thread or talk by PM -that way we wouldn't take this thread off topic...

:happy3:

I would like to hear about the 'god' you have in your head, not so much to debate you out of believing in it, but trying to see how this god-U-know relates to the God and Jesus of the Bible. This is what is intriguing me about the whole 'Bible is not important - faith is' line. Does it leave you with Biblegod or agnostic-god?

I can see it coming - "Well of course it is the JesusGod of the Bible, not because that is the one I was taught about but because that is the true one".

I agree it is a little off-topic so another thread might be a good idea.

[Transponder]

Regarding the E mindset, Kratos wrote to ME on the guest board in response to 'What if you are wrong' (about UR)

"Romans says that it is the love of God that leads men to repentance. 2000 years of church history with probably less than 5% of those who have lived dying as a believer should prove that fear of Hell is not getting the job done.

So what if we portray God as all loving and all powerful and able to get His will done that all men repent and come to the knowledge of the truth? Based on scripture, we will see more people reconciled to Him and than ain't bad.

I guess even though more people will be saved by preaching the true good news, if we are wrong, there may be a few that die thinking that God loved them only to find out that He really hates them. I will take the more people saved scenario myself."

This makes two points

(1) threat of hellfire is not scaring people into faith

(2) love of God will produce better results.

quite apart from which one is going to do a more effective job of making people religious, that does not address the question of whether it is true or not.

gr8wuf started off the thread by saying that "I haven't actually read the Bible in a very long time especially since coming to a belief in UR. Why? Well first off I've been set free from the condemnation of not reading the Bible,"

That is not quite saying that freedom from belief in hellfire had led to freedom from religion but rather the odd position that gr8wuf did not care to read the Bible because it did not seem to fit what she now believed.


Jenna suggested " pray before reading. Ask God to open your mind to His truth, and free you from that mindset."

and  Card added "And try praying and asking Father to remove every seed the ministry of condemnation that ministers death to the hearer, planted in you while you were under that ministry of tutors and govenors" Works for her.

It worked for Sib (or perhaps it was Earthmommy) on the Atheist Network. She prayed for guidance and the god in her head said that atheism was the truth. It seems that telling your brain what you want it to tell you in order to confirm your preferences with supposed divine endorsement is...unreliable?

Hopeful thus.."Many of us have to go through a cleansing of sorts to rid our minds of religion.  We've heard so much hype..."

Couldn't have put it better myself. The difference is the selectivity about what one wants to believe and what one doesn't. Hellfire goes out of the window on the basis (it seems) of human logic and the aion thing,ut realy, because it is what you want to believe.
Jesus' resurrection should, on Bible evidence, go out of the window first because there is much more reason to disbelieve that than hellfire. But it doesn't - because you-all want to believe it, I suppose. So that is, I'd guess, another good reason for you not to read the Bible. 

[hopeful]

Well, Jeanne!  You have quite a thread waiting here for you when you get back from your cabin in the woods!   :winkgrin:

Makes me think of how Christianity did just fine before/without the bible. Now it seems unimaginable to most Christians. Why do you think that is?
blessings,
  - Byron

Hi, Byron!   :icon_flower:

I think it's because "Christianity" is supposed to be about our life in Christ.  But for many, it is now about a system of religion and the Bible is the rule book of that religion.  Supposedly, If you don't study that book just right or enough, then you are in danger of being deceived or worse yet, burned forever.  What a heavy burden!  I am an uneducated woman and I don't always understand written words clearly.  Only HE is able to keep ME from falling- not the Bible.

Now, for the sake of newcomers or anyone else reading this, I'd like to try and clarify here that I am not against the Bible. I have been reading the scriptures for 28 years and have much of it memorized simply through reading them and enjoying them. The scriptures have ministered life and joy to me on countless occasions when the spirit of God illuminates them to my heart.  I post many verses of scripture on my blog and I'm glad the Bible has not been banned here in North America!

The original question that started this thread was "How do you read the Bible without ET mindset?"

The question itself proves that what was meant to be refreshment for us, often turns into something else.  :thumbdown: Religion has taught us to approach the scriptures with a certain mind set that is not born of the Spirit but is instead born of fear. 

My original words on this thread were not meant to convey that I don't think the scriptures can be approached at all or that I think someone "should" just toss the Bible aside. But I do think it's sad to see the scriptures approached in a way that leads to bondage and if that is the case with anyone, then I'd rather see someone lay the Bible aside for awhile than continue to toil over it in fear and confusion. 

If someone wants to read through the Bible in a year or someone feels led of the Spirit to read through the Bible in the year, then I say go for it and I know you'll be blessed!  :girlheart: I know people who have read through the Bible in a whole lot less time than a year and they loved it!

But if someone is coerced into reading the scriptures through manipulation or fear of man, condemnation, or fear of not pleasing God, then I don't think it's going to come out very well.  :sigh:

Or if someone thinks that others 'Should" do as they do (read the scriptures according to a certain formula) than I don't hear, see or feel life from that- It's death.

Or if someone is walking under condemnation because they feel they don't read the Bible enough or often enough, then I would like to see them set free to enjoy the scriptures.

Sorry this was so long but I hope it helped.  :mblush:

  :HeartThrob:
Holly

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Byron said, "Makes me think of how Christianity did just fine before/without the bible. Now it seems unimaginable to most Christians. Why do you think that is?"

That's a good question. I think the answer is relationship. The early Christians were powerfully introduced to the Spirit of God and had relationship right off the bat, as reality. In my observation from my time in the churches, it seemed to be more important to have relationship with the other denominational members, only a few of which seemed to have a real living relationship with Him.

And by living relationship, I don't mean mouth these words and you're a child of God, I mean He's as real as any other person sitting in your living room. How sad it is to me, that a book about Him, has replaced Him, for so many people. It's like, if He were sitting in your living room, would you ignore Him and instead opt to read the book about Him? Yet that's what it comes down to.

And no, I don't throw the book away, either. I need both, but I need my personal relationship with Him to be able to hear what the Spirit would say about the book, as He is the interpreter of it. Just my  :2c:........blessings to all.........