How do you read the Bible without ET mindset?

[jabcat]

Once we get past the assumptions, it's amazing how unified the truth of the bible really is, and it all hinges on UR, imo.

As an example, most Christians assume the existence of eternal punishment.  Once we identify the assumption, we can reread and see all the passages pertaining to God's plan being universal restoration of all things through Christ.

Since you've seen past that assumption, start asking yourself where this new understanding comes into conflict with something else.  And then look for the assumption there.

That begins a process of relearning most of what we have been taught.

IF you think this might work for you as a practical way of studying the bible again, let me know and I'd be happy to go over a few of the assumptions I had to rethink myself.

Mary Ellen

Why don't you go ahead and expound on this if you'd like, Mary Ellen?  I think it's interesting and could be helpful.  James.

[autoimmune]

Why don't you go ahead and expound on this if you'd like, Mary Ellen?  I think it's interesting and could be helpful.  James.

LOL! I'm good at talking a lot, not so sure on the expounding part, though.  Thank you, for inviting me to add to the conversation, James.  As a newbie it takes time to get a feel for the forum and then decide where to join the conversations.

A good example of unseen assumptions would be another thread I posted on yesterday, where a member asked what was the good in proselytizing if everyone was saved anyway?

The assumption here is that the reason we preach the gospel is to save sinners from hell.  Now, that's almost as much a given in Christians' minds as ET is.  Very hard to get past assumptions because we accept them without thinking about them.  They seem to be foundational to our belief, so when they are questioned people naturally get upset.

I'm cautious about questioning people's assumptions because about 25 years ago a gentleman I was debating with actually ended up in a straight jacket in a psych ward that evening because I put a crack in a foundation he had never questioned (his biblical belief that women are subjected to men).  I was ashamed of myself because I had done it from intellectual pride, not true love for him.  I also realized that we should never tear down such walls and foundations unless we have something the person can put back into its place.

I learned the hard way that the only reason to question the assumption is so we can discover the correct question to ask and find the answer to it in the scriptures, thus building up the Body of Christ, not tearing it down with dissension.

If UR is a valid doctrine (and yes, I believe it is), then the foundational belief should lead to questions being re-asked about much of what we believe as Christians, with a reformulation of the Christian message overall, not just the one aspect of whether hell exists or not.  We cannot change one facet of our Christian belief without it impacting on all the other doctrines related to it.  And, from what I've seen over the years, everything from Genesis to Revelation is connected to UR vs ET.

When someone asks the question about why bother with the Great Commission, I usually see people responding based upon the same assumption--that we preach it to save others from hell.  Then a debate ensues about hell itself with the same old passages concerning the aeon, a flurry of greek words proving either sides point, a long mess of quotes from Jesus varying between love your brother to worms that don't die.  The debate revolves around the assumption, not the underlying issue it covers.

If, instead we identify that assumption, then we can see what question(s) we SHOULD be asking and what we should be looking for in scripture instead.

In this case, it becomes, "If the Good News is the restoration of all things to God through Christ, then what is the reason for the Great Commission?"

I can think of a few people might consider.  Each one requires us to do extensive studying on the word to see if it fits, and if not, why not (which usually helps us find other assumptions about scriptural interpretations we didn't realize were lurking).

1.  We preach the Good News to bring the Kingdom of God/peace/love here to the earth.

Is this biblically sound?  In some ways, yes, love can change people around us and sometimes do wonderful things in society.  But has non-violence ever trumped the world's way?  There are many passages in the bible indicating this cannot happen completely through man's efforts before the return of Christ.  For one thing, death has not been conquered yet, and the meek can never inherit the earth as long as Mammon's violence trumps non-violence. And history shows this is always true.  We change hearts with love, but man has never yet been able to change social structure's dependence on human violence.

The violence exists because the world is still operating under original sin (even within Christians to some extent who should have claimed their freedom from that through Christ).  We believe that we can determine (judge) the good in ourselves and the evil in others, and then bring "justice" through "good" government, war, economic means, education of others, converting them to our way of thought . . . none of it works because it's all based on the world's system, not God's.

The simple truth according to the bible is that the meek will inherit the world, but that cannot be done until death loses its sting (which, btw, should raise our spiritual eyebrows to wonder about the assumptions we make on that topic as well).

2. Paul gives us another reason we preach the gospel in Ephesians 4.  As a prelude he tells us within the first chapter that the "mystery of his (God's) will" is "that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all tings in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in him." At the end of that chapter we see that he says the Body of Christ is the church.

He uses the next chapters to describe how that body is built, that it plays a part in this mystery, then gives the "good news" that Jesus came, died, rose for us, descended into "the lower parts of the earth so that he might fill all in all"  (UR again), then established the church and its makeup for a reason.

Paul typically does a long intro to any salient point he wishes emphasize, normally ending with a therefore, thereby or conclusion.  He goes to great pains to give all the background a Christian needs to know before saying "this is what my main point is."  In Ephesians 4 Paul comes to the point:  this is the reason Christ established his church, his very own Body; this is the reason we preach the good news.

To create the ideal man in Christ.

Paul says the very reason we have all those ministries, the reason we preach the good news is to find those others called by God to be built into the "perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulnes of Christ."

So, it seems that Paul begins by telling us he knows a great mystery (UR), and that the reason for all ministries within the body is to BUILD the Body unto Christ full stature.

In the next chapter, he finally reveals the why of the Great Commission, which is the essence of that great mystery he is trying to reveal to us.  He introduces it by paralleling it to marriage, the oneness between two.  His purpose is not to set up an arbitrary social rule about wives being submissive to their husbands, as so many think, but to explain using a human example the nature of the great mystery he has been revealing in Ephesians:  that the reason we preach the gospel, have ministries is to build that "ideal man," the church, who is His Body because s/he is also the Bride of Christ.  And the Bride and Christ are one.

Eph 5: 32 "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

And that is an essential part in achieving the will of God, which is UR.

So, if UR is true, then we do not preach the gospel to save sinners from hell, but to find those with ears to hear and eyes to see who are "predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will." (Eph 1: 11)

We were given the Great Commission to find and build the church, Christ's Bride, so that the final restoration of all could be accomplished according to God's will.  Unless and until the Bride is built up, this cannot be achieved.

That leads to other assumptions I had to question, and more bible searching.  But step by step UR and the role the Body of Christ plays in it has been leading me into a better understanding of what Paul understood about the Body of Christ and its role in the final restoration of all things.  To be honest, over the last two years my focus has been on the Body of Christ, not UR, but no matter which way I turned, UR was at the heart of understanding because it had switched my perspective enough to be able to see what seemed hidden behind the assumptions before.

A few extra passages relating to the above:

Mar 4: 11  "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables" (those with ears to hear and understand the mystery are his followers these are the ones we are seeking when we preach, just as Jesus sought and found the 12 and his other disciples)

Col 1: 27-28 "To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"  (again the combination of the mystery, preaching, the perfect man in Christ)

Rom 16: 25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," (again, preaching is done in accordance with this mystery concerning the Body of Christ).

There are others, but this post is long enough and I do believe each person should seek these things out themselves anyway.  Just do a search on the term mystery within the NT.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to illustrate what I meant in yesterday's post.

Mary Ellen