Reincarnation and the Lake of fire

[dash]

I'm just going to give some of my final thoughts and then leave this issue, as I'm satisfied there is no solid case for reincarnation scripturally and it's not a subject I wish to dwell upon right now. 
I have over 140+ topics I want to tackle and there are not enough hours in the day.
(Isn't it great that God gives us a 'job' even in these times when so many are out of work etc, God gives us the greatest jobs possible)...

The way I understand being 'perfected' is not living countless lifetimes to 'get it right' (reincarnation), but rather each person becoming the best version of themselves.
I do not have to live a lifetime as King or a slave. I believe we all get experiences of such things in our own lives.  I have been the server and the served (etc).
I do not have to live a lifetime as a warrior who fights and kills - Indeed I don't want to kill anyone.  (I wouldn't)... So why would some suggest I have to 'live such a life' to 'know' what it would be like? I don't have to live as a pirate - I wouldn't. I get their point...But (to me personally), I don't feel it is necessary. 
I see in my own life that the Lord gives me some things to do and other things He knows I will (or won't) do, so He doesn't give me those things to do or not because He knows that I would/wouldn't do them anyway.  Some things test people, to others the exact same things are not tests. 
For example: I could be tested forever on gambling because I'm not a gambler. I have no desire to gamble so that test will go right by me.
I think our 'time is up' so to speak when we 'overcome' our personal challenges. (In part at least).
As for living as animals to 'truly understand them', I think that would really be a 'drop' in consciousness/intelligence and I'm not sure that could teach a person anything? In the same way being a blade of grass might not 'refine' a person very much. (I may be wrong).

Furthermore; I could have a billion attempts at living Elvis' life for him but I will never be Elvis. - He is unique as are we all.
If we all lived the 'exact same' lives and we were all made to BE Elvis so we really understood him would we not just be the same people (not unique individuals)? - And then where does love and forgiveness etc come into play? And harmony and reconciliation and cooperation etc?

To me, being perfected is becoming the best version of 'ourselves'. 
I.E. The drug user quits the habit, the liar tells the truth, the angry man overcomes his temper and so on. 
They are still themselves - just a better version (a new man) (if anyone is 'in' Christ (spiritual man) he's a new creation) etc. They have 'overcome' (sins/shortcomings).

So (to me), being reborn over and over again into different lives and learning all over again from infancy onwards and doing the whole 'ga ga' thing again makes no sense. 
I don't believe I have to live Elvis' entire life to 'understand' him or to 'love' him.  (Actually I'm rather partial to a bit of Elvis as it is!), but rather it is about respecting the uniqueness of people and loving them for who they are, but their 'uniqueness' eventually being perfected for the good of all.  (God/Love all in all). Harmony.  This will of course mean I will one day have to love Lady Gaga equally but musically that ain't gonna happen and that is where uniqueness (and taste) comes in!!!.  :rolllol:  Love the sinner hate the sin, and by goodness some music is a sin!

Do we need to experience endless lives and even live each other's lives to reach 'harmony'? - I don't believe so.  - We just have to learn 'the way' (of peace) and to forgive and so on and accept each other...Faults and all (before perfection).
As Jabcat said, look to the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

I will shut up now.
Thank you.

[dash]

I have also come to remember thanks to the many comments on here that overcomers will not be harmed by the second death (as they have already overcome), having accepted God's 'correction' in this life. (They became 'better' not 'bitter'!) ('evil men wax worse and worse')

Worth remembering also is that: 'our God is a consuming fire' (of Love), and also too that God is LIFE.
'I am the way, truth and LIFE'.
'In Him was LIFE'

So this LIFE is 'correction'/fire (in HIM/LIFE we LIVE and move and have our BE-ING) and if we 'overcome' here the 2nd death (further purification) will not be necessary.

IF we don't get it right in the 'increments' (of fire) (learn from mistakes etc) in this life and 'go the right way (Christ), then (i believe) 'get flung in the deep end' (so to speak) of the (LAKE) of fire which will engulf us and finding ourselves in 'deep water' so to speak we will have to 'learn how to swim' and sooner the better!  -  This is just my own opinion.

[rosered]

  I do believe all of us as   in Adam  experience God differently  and in Christ  it will be  completely
  I thought of you  when I read this  scripture , you made me think , because all do serve God in that sense  of evil having its place  and use , but when we become  friends  , well we have a relationship  that grows in truth and grace .

  you have not chosen me , but I have chosen you

John 15 No Greater Love
?15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing.

But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you.


16You did not choose Me, but I chose you.


And I appointed you to go and bear fruit? fruit that will remain? so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.


17This is My command to you: Love one another.?

  Thanks bro and Jugg and Ross and James for sharing in this thread 
  I love to see the many ways  we consider the Lord and one another   with a purpose .

 

[rosered]

I'm just going to give some of my final thoughts and then leave this issue, as I'm satisfied there is no solid case for reincarnation scripturally and it's not a subject I wish to dwell upon right now. 
I have over 140+ topics I want to tackle and there are not enough hours in the day.
(Isn't it great that God gives us a 'job' even in these times when so many are out of work etc, God gives us the greatest jobs possible)...

Yes it is and brother i LOVE  when the  Holy Spirit teaches us by  reproving all things   . Many times  some have spoken though the Same Spirit of truth and has helped me grow in truth and grace   over the years .

I have noticed though nothing comes easy , the blessing is in the quickening  when you can know that life force   settling something within you

The way I understand being 'perfected' is not living countless lifetimes to 'get it right' (reincarnation), but rather each person becoming the best version of themselves.
I do not have to live a lifetime as King or a slave. I believe we all get experiences of such things in our own lives.  I have been the server and the served (etc).
I do not have to live a lifetime as a warrior who fights and kills - Indeed I don't want to kill anyone.  (I wouldn't)... So why would some suggest I have to 'live such a life' to 'know' what it would be like? I don't have to live as a pirate - I wouldn't. I get their point...But (to me personally), I don't feel it is necessary. 
I see in my own life that the Lord gives me some things to do and other things He knows I will (or won't) do, so He doesn't give me those things to do or not because He knows that I would/wouldn't do them anyway.  Some things test people, to others the exact same things are not tests. 
For example: I could be tested forever on gambling because I'm not a gambler. I have no desire to gamble so that test will go right by me.
I think our 'time is up' so to speak when we 'overcome' our personal challenges. (In part at least).

This reminded me of the scriptures  in Isaiah the prophet  , Here I am Lord send me ........., I just remember how blessed and when it did quicken like a flash of Light  understanding come  when the scripture

Paul said and taught us in 1Cor 1  26 Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth.

27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast in His presence.

30It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: ?Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.?    This gave me hope beyond  sitting in a church house  for years on end , Once you begin to read it for yourself and let the Spirit of truth interpret  and teach you , this bond becomes your  anchor 

As for living as animals to 'truly understand them', I think that would really be a 'drop' in consciousness/intelligence and I'm not sure that could teach a person anything? In the same way being a blade of grass might not 'refine' a person very much. (I may be wrong).


Furthermore; I could have a billion attempts at living Elvis' life for him but I will never be Elvis. - He is unique as are we all.
If we all lived the 'exact same' lives and we were all made to BE Elvis so we really understood him would we not just be the same people (not unique individuals)? - And then where does love and forgiveness etc come into play? And harmony and reconciliation and cooperation etc?

To me, being perfected is becoming the best version of 'ourselves'. 
I.E. The drug user quits the habit, the liar tells the truth, the angry man overcomes his temper and so on. 
They are still themselves - just a better version (a new man) (if anyone is 'in' Christ (spiritual man) he's a new creation) etc. They have 'overcome' (sins/shortcomings).

I believe we learn though the connection that everything is  in Christ and when we begin to look at it that way many blessings comes and changes our ways of thinking of things   , I recall  when I was a baby in Christ   and was looking for all these signs  , of  people walking on water   like Peter did and I was very literal  and spiritually discerned  badly .. my own disappointments of thinking GOD where are you in all of this mess??????????   my faith was worthless and  so was my ability to understand anything  , But the Spirit put a hunger and thirst in me to learn of HIM   and when I finally saw that walking on water was  rising above the great waves of shame  and many voices from below after reading the Psalms and David's own dealings with God , it come to me we have to not be swept away in the dragons flood of lies and torment , to walk in the voices from above   and hear the LORDS VOICE  though every noise , I could rejoice in the LORD and knew it was the Holy Spiit teaching me   finally  ....   

So (to me), being reborn over and over again into different lives and learning all over again from infancy onwards and doing the whole 'ga ga' thing again makes no sense. 
I don't believe I have to live Elvis' entire life to 'understand' him or to 'love' him.  (Actually I'm rather partial to a bit of Elvis as it is!), but rather it is about respecting the uniqueness of people and loving them for who they are, but their 'uniqueness' eventually being perfected for the good of all.  (God/Love all in all). Harmony.  This will of course mean I will one day have to love Lady Gaga equally but musically that ain't gonna happen and that is where uniqueness (and taste) comes in!!!.  :rolllol:  Love the sinner hate the sin, and by goodness some music is a sin!

I always look for the songs meaning and some voices are  without understanding and how we relate to them , I just knew  when I stumbled across   a scripture  and was reading about  Noah and Job and Daniel  being the only ones that Gods grace  were remarkable   to write about them specifically and wondered why , that was my new quest to search it out !   Ekek 14 14then even if these three men? Noah, Daniel, and Job? were in it, their righteousness could deliver only themselves, declares the Lord GOD.   I believe it was because they did pray for all  their enemies  and warn them of the things to come and had the UR  kind of thinking , most only love and relate to their own kind and fail to love everyone where they are , but these  that were mistreated badly in their time were above  the  mentality of eye for an eye  type thinking of the old testament law  and before their time in that sense of Gods grace in them working 

Do we need to experience endless lives and even live each other's lives to reach 'harmony'? - I don't believe so.  - We just have to learn 'the way' (of peace) and to forgive and so on and accept each other...Faults and all (before perfection).
As Jabcat said, look to the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

I will shut up now.
Thank you.

Amen ! speak the truth in love  and let it be he only reason because you do Love God first and the second is like it love one another as you do yourself , but we have to learn to love ourselves in the sense of  wanting the LORD TO Rule and reign in our hearts and not go into the way of the world and all its temptations , trusting GOD  is easy to say and hard to do when you are caught up into the  fray . I do not know how to do quotes this is a close as  I can do lol  ha ha ...  :dsunny: Thanks for the thoughts and sharing as you do brother , everyone here blesses me in some way or another and  I thank God for you all and this place  to come and speak of the things of God  , there are not to many of these hiding places  left open for the Fathers business   these days

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[darryl]

1
The word for 'second' death (in relation to the lake of fire) seems to indicate not ONLY a 'second' death but a 'FOLLOWING'/'NEXT' death. (Or it 'can' be interpreted that way).
So, for example; a man is appointed to die once, THEN face the judgement (lake of fire/2nd death) (if he has not entered into 'life').

the literal Greek says 'death the second,....

Revelation 20:14 ►
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Greek
Strong's   Greek   English   Morphology
2532 [e]   Καὶ
kai   And   Conj
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
2288 [e]   θάνατος
thanatos   Death   N-NMS
2532 [e]   καὶ
kai   and   Conj
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
86 [e]   ᾅδης
hadēs   Hades   N-NMS
906 [e]   ἐβλήθησαν
eblēthēsan   were cast   V-AIP-3P
1519 [e]   εἰς
eis   into   Prep
3588 [e]   τὴν
tēn   the   Art-AFS
3041 [e]   λίμνην
limnēn   lake   N-AFS
3588 [e]   τοῦ
tou   -   Art-GNS
4442 [e]   πυρός.
pyros   of fire.   N-GNS
3778 [e]   οὗτος
houtos   This   DPro-NMS
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   the   Art-NMS
2288 [e]   θάνατος
thanatos   death   N-NMS
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
1208 [e]   δεύτερός
deuteros   second   Adj-NMS
1510 [e]   ἐστιν,
estin   is   V-PIA-3S
3588 [e]   ἡ
hē   the   Art-NFS
3041 [e]   λίμνη
limnē   lake   N-NFS
3588 [e]   τοῦ
tou   of   Art-GNS
4442 [e]   πυρός.
pyros   fire.   N-GNS


i.e. the lake of fire is death the 2nd but death will be destroyed, says Paul...so the lake of Fire will be done away with and those in it will be Redeemed through Christ.

[dash]

1
The word for 'second' death (in relation to the lake of fire) seems to indicate not ONLY a 'second' death but a 'FOLLOWING'/'NEXT' death. (Or it 'can' be interpreted that way).
So, for example; a man is appointed to die once, THEN face the judgement (lake of fire/2nd death) (if he has not entered into 'life').

the literal Greek says 'death the second,....

Revelation 20:14 ►
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Greek
Strong's   Greek   English   Morphology
2532 [e]   Καὶ
kai   And   Conj
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
2288 [e]   θάνατος
thanatos   Death   N-NMS
2532 [e]   καὶ
kai   and   Conj
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
86 [e]   ᾅδης
hadēs   Hades   N-NMS
906 [e]   ἐβλήθησαν
eblēthēsan   were cast   V-AIP-3P
1519 [e]   εἰς
eis   into   Prep
3588 [e]   τὴν
tēn   the   Art-AFS
3041 [e]   λίμνην
limnēn   lake   N-AFS
3588 [e]   τοῦ
tou   -   Art-GNS
4442 [e]   πυρός.
pyros   of fire.   N-GNS
3778 [e]   οὗτος
houtos   This   DPro-NMS
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   the   Art-NMS
2288 [e]   θάνατος
thanatos   death   N-NMS
3588 [e]   ὁ
ho   -   Art-NMS
1208 [e]   δεύτερός
deuteros   second   Adj-NMS
1510 [e]   ἐστιν,
estin   is   V-PIA-3S
3588 [e]   ἡ
hē   the   Art-NFS
3041 [e]   λίμνη
limnē   lake   N-NFS
3588 [e]   τοῦ
tou   of   Art-GNS
4442 [e]   πυρός.
pyros   fire.   N-GNS


i.e. the lake of fire is death the 2nd but death will be destroyed, says Paul...so the lake of Fire will be done away with and those in it will be Redeemed through Christ.

Hi bro I appreciate that.
Despite using concordances etc I am forever finding new things about the original meanings/languages etc in the context of their usage/era and so on... And so it could be interpreted as 'death the next' (instead of second) accordingly.  But anyway... Despite that. 

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

If the second death is death, how would you answer:- 'Death being thrown into death?'
Would you see that as 'death dying' or death being 'done away with'?
Because we know that death is the 'last' enemy and so it would make sense that death would be 'last' to 'die' (so to speak), for death to be 'swallowed up by life'.

Thank you  :gimmefive:

[marie glen]

:hiya: Hi!

Hebrews 9:27 says ?it?s given to man to die once? so I think we can assume another death is of the carnal character called ?the flesh?.

First mention of lake of fire of course is at the return of the Lord (2Thess.1:7-8; 2Pet.3:10) which the huge beast and the false prophet institutions are cast into (swallowed by) and those who ?are alive and remain? rise through (they being ?sheltered from scorching heat?).
    The other mention is at the final defeat of Satan&co in Rev.20, just before the resurrection of all not yet saved and the beginning of ?aionian kolasis?.
     Jude 7 says our example of ?everlasting? (oye!) hellfire ..is an event! Not a place.
    The ancient Fall Holy Days (I strongly believe) are the outline showing the millennium to be literally 1000yrs (represented by 10 days between trumpets and DOA, and said DOA lasting 500yrs, represented by ?5 days? between DOA and Tabernacles when ?God will now tabernacle/dwell with mankind upon Earth made anew? (regenesis!) ?The bear will graze with the cow, the lion will eat straw like the ox? Is.11:7.
- Lev.23

[dash]

I do believe all of us as   in Adam  experience God differently  and in Christ  it will be  completely

Yes Rose, definitely.

16You did not choose Me, but I chose you.

Yes! 
And I cannot see how this could be any other way when we consider that: 'God is love'. 
'We love because He (love) first loved us'.
Love (God) was first!
So although a person can feel 'love' in their heart and 'come to God' and 'choose this day whom they will follow', and 'forsake sin' and all that...
...That very 'love' working in them is God!

17This is My command to you: Love one another.?

And the whole law to do unto others as we would have done to us.  The 'way' indeed!  :HeartThrob:

[dash]

Yes it is and brother i LOVE  when the  Holy Spirit teaches us by  reproving all things 

Yes!  Truth is truth  :banana:

27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast in His presence.

Just brilliant!

I believe we learn though the connection that everything is  in Christ and when we begin to look at it that way many blessings comes and changes our ways of thinking of things   , I recall  when I was a baby in Christ   and was looking for all these signs  , of  people walking on water   like Peter did and I was very literal  and spiritually discerned  badly .. my own disappointments of thinking GOD where are you in all of this mess??????????   my faith was worthless and  so was my ability to understand anything  , But the Spirit put a hunger and thirst in me to learn of HIM   and when I finally saw that walking on water was  rising above the great waves of shame  and many voices from below after reading the Psalms and David's own dealings with God , it come to me we have to not be swept away in the dragons flood of lies and torment , to walk in the voices from above   and hear the LORDS VOICE  though every noise , I could rejoice in the LORD and knew it was the Holy Spiit teaching me   finally  ....   

It's amazing how we are taught and each gets what they need at the time they need it.


So (to me), being reborn over and over again into different lives and learning all over again from infancy onwards and doing the whole 'ga ga' thing again makes no sense. 
I don't believe I have to live Elvis' entire life to 'understand' him or to 'love' him.  (Actually I'm rather partial to a bit of Elvis as it is!), but rather it is about respecting the uniqueness of people and loving them for who they are, but their 'uniqueness' eventually being perfected for the good of all.  (God/Love all in all). Harmony.  This will of course mean I will one day have to love Lady Gaga equally but musically that ain't gonna happen and that is where uniqueness (and taste) comes in!!!.  :rolllol:  Love the sinner hate the sin, and by goodness some music is a sin!

I believe it was because they did pray for all  their enemies  and warn them of the things to come and had the UR  kind of thinking , most only love and relate to their own kind and fail to love everyone where they are , but these  that were mistreated badly in their time were above  the  mentality of eye for an eye  type thinking of the old testament law  and before their time in that sense of Gods grace in them working

That's so well said.  'God delights in mercy' and it really pleases Him when we are merciful to others.

Amen ! speak the truth in love  and let it be he only reason because you do Love God first and the second is like it love one another as you do yourself , but we have to learn to love ourselves in the sense of  wanting the LORD TO Rule and reign in our hearts and not go into the way of the world and all its temptations , trusting GOD  is easy to say and hard to do when you are caught up into the  fray . I do not know how to do quotes this is a close as  I can do lol  ha ha ...  :dsunny: Thanks for the thoughts and sharing as you do brother , everyone here blesses me in some

I know it used to freak some people out years ago when it said to love God even more than your parents etc!
What they forgot is that God is love and so putting God first is putting love first.
...I guess it's getting our priorities right, because as humans we are not perfect and must keep our feet on firm ground, on the rock.
Thanks again sis.

[dash]

:hiya: Hi!

Hebrews 9:27 says ?it?s given to man to die once? so I think we can assume another death is of the carnal character called ?the flesh?.

First mention of lake of fire of course is at the return of the Lord (2Thess.1:7-8; 2Pet.3:10) which the huge beast and the false prophet institutions are cast into (swallowed by) and those who ?are alive and remain? rise through (they being ?sheltered from scorching heat?).
    The other mention is at the final defeat of Satan&co in Rev.20, just before the resurrection of all not yet saved and the beginning of ?aionian kolasis?.
     Jude 7 says our example of ?everlasting? (oye!) hellfire ..is an event! Not a place.
    The ancient Fall Holy Days (I strongly believe) are the outline showing the millennium to be literally 1000yrs (represented by 10 days between trumpets and DOA, and said DOA lasting 500yrs, represented by ?5 days? between DOA and Tabernacles when ?God will now tabernacle/dwell with mankind upon Earth made anew? (regenesis!) ?The bear will graze with the cow, the lion will eat straw like the ox? Is.11:7.
- Lev.23

Hi Marie  :HeartThrob:

I believe the thousand years are literal also, and not far off.
I could see the change in consciousness coming now for many years and I believe current events are a 'power grab', (Satan trying to hold onto his kingdom). 
Dec 21st is when the King of Righteousness (Jupiter) meets Saturn (used a lot in satanism (like the nike (rings of saturn) signs or google symbols etc etc).  This meeting is called a conjunction, however in this case it is a super conjunction, being that it is the two biggest planets (and because the events of Sept 2017 (woman clothed with the sun) etc (altogether) (virgo giving birth to Jupiter) happens only once (every?) 7000 years. 
It's all happening in 2020 the year of 20/20 vision it seems!

[Andrew]

Posted by Dash

"I believe the thousand years are literal also, and not far off.
I could see the change in consciousness coming now for many years and I believe current events are a 'power grab', (Satan trying to hold onto his kingdom).
Dec 21st is when the King of Righteousness (Jupiter) meets Saturn (used a lot in satanism (like the nike (rings of saturn) signs or google symbols etc etc).  This meeting is called a conjunction, however in this case it is a super conjunction, being that it is the two biggest planets (and because the events of Sept 2017 (woman clothed with the sun) etc (altogether) (virgo giving birth to Jupiter) happens only once (every?) 7000 years.
It's all happening in 2020 the year of 20/20 vision it seems!"

Could you clarify this a little more for me. How often does Jupiter meet Saturn? And could you explain what happened sept 2017 a little more, and it's significance to how it relates to Jupiter meeting Saturn? I think this is an important key to the times we find ourselves in, and would just like to understand more - if you can think of any way to add to what you said...

Thanks,

Andrew

[dash]

Posted by Dash

"I believe the thousand years are literal also, and not far off.
I could see the change in consciousness coming now for many years and I believe current events are a 'power grab', (Satan trying to hold onto his kingdom).
Dec 21st is when the King of Righteousness (Jupiter) meets Saturn (used a lot in satanism (like the nike (rings of saturn) signs or google symbols etc etc).  This meeting is called a conjunction, however in this case it is a super conjunction, being that it is the two biggest planets (and because the events of Sept 2017 (woman clothed with the sun) etc (altogether) (virgo giving birth to Jupiter) happens only once (every?) 7000 years.
It's all happening in 2020 the year of 20/20 vision it seems!"

Could you clarify this a little more for me. How often does Jupiter meet Saturn? And could you explain what happened sept 2017 a little more, and it's significance to how it relates to Jupiter meeting Saturn? I think this is an important key to the times we find ourselves in, and would just like to understand more - if you can think of any way to add to what you said...

Thanks,

Andrew

Rev 12, the virgin (virgo) is 'about' to be bringing forth a Son (Jupiter) to govern the nations with an iron rod.  This sign was seen in 23rd Sept 2017.
The exact date she gives birth, many expect will be 21st Dec 2020, when Jupiter and Saturn will be (apparently) within 0.1 degrees of each other.
Then we know that the 'dragon pursues' the woman (the 'woman' being those who 'brought forth' the 'Son').
Apparently this is the closest conjunction since 1623 and won't occur again until March 15th 2080.
However, taking all events into account as a whole, (including the virigin/dragon/Saturn (Christs stolen crown)/Jupiter etc): (the entire event we are seeing unfold) 'apparently' occurs only once every 7000 years (or once for ever( to some who believe the earth is not as old as mainstream (cough) 'science' tells them)).

To self-study one can check out various astrology programs on computer or search out all I've said.
The Indians have a lot of interesting things to say in this old video where they predicted these (end/new beginning) times having been astrologers (like Magi).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvqDDG5WQQ

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge
Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard
their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world

There will be many many people without hope in the coming years and indeed many have given up hope already.  We are truly blessed to have this book and share the hope we have with others.  At the very least we know Who wins in the end and if we study we will be better prepared for the 'next woe'...

[Andrew]

Thanks Dash, that helped clear things up a bit.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

I have not read all the debates here, sorry, but i can reassure tyou that Reincarnation does not exist and nor is it needed.

If you look upon scripture and what Jesus proves in This world, then it is that the very "property" of death isn't a natural element in existence but a consequence of sin. (to what extent there's no reason to ask as you can summarise that the whole universe has been corrupted by death - so even if you look in how adapted nature seems to be with death and how essential it seems in certain parts, this can only be due to the infinite complexity of creation and how it, as a living organism, has tried to fight this disease off by adapting to it.)

Therefore if Death isn't a natural property of creation nor has it ever been planned by God, then reincarnation cannot exist because no creature ever meet's it's end.

If creation was never meant to experience an end there's no need for reincarnation.

Plus reincarnation is an enemy of infinity in so many ways you cannot imagine. If things ought to repeat endlessly in an uroboric - like cycle then that dispels the infiniteness of variety through time and outside of time.

It is best to leave this subject to satan where it comes from.

[jabcat]

 :goodpost:

[Shadrak-Daniel]

Posted by Dash

"I believe the thousand years are literal also, and not far off.
I could see the change in consciousness coming now for many years and I believe current events are a 'power grab', (Satan trying to hold onto his kingdom).
Dec 21st is when the King of Righteousness (Jupiter) meets Saturn (used a lot in satanism (like the nike (rings of saturn) signs or google symbols etc etc).  This meeting is called a conjunction, however in this case it is a super conjunction, being that it is the two biggest planets (and because the events of Sept 2017 (woman clothed with the sun) etc (altogether) (virgo giving birth to Jupiter) happens only once (every?) 7000 years.
It's all happening in 2020 the year of 20/20 vision it seems!"

Could you clarify this a little more for me. How often does Jupiter meet Saturn? And could you explain what happened sept 2017 a little more, and it's significance to how it relates to Jupiter meeting Saturn? I think this is an important key to the times we find ourselves in, and would just like to understand more - if you can think of any way to add to what you said...

Thanks,

Andrew

Rev 12, the virgin (virgo) is 'about' to be bringing forth a Son (Jupiter) to govern the nations with an iron rod.  This sign was seen in 23rd Sept 2017.
The exact date she gives birth, many expect will be 21st Dec 2020, when Jupiter and Saturn will be (apparently) within 0.1 degrees of each other.
Then we know that the 'dragon pursues' the woman (the 'woman' being those who 'brought forth' the 'Son').
Apparently this is the closest conjunction since 1623 and won't occur again until March 15th 2080.
However, taking all events into account as a whole, (including the virigin/dragon/Saturn (Christs stolen crown)/Jupiter etc): (the entire event we are seeing unfold) 'apparently' occurs only once every 7000 years (or once for ever( to some who believe the earth is not as old as mainstream (cough) 'science' tells them)).

To self-study one can check out various astrology programs on computer or search out all I've said.
The Indians have a lot of interesting things to say in this old video where they predicted these (end/new beginning) times having been astrologers (like Magi).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvqDDG5WQQ

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge
Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard
their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world

There will be many many people without hope in the coming years and indeed many have given up hope already.  We are truly blessed to have this book and share the hope we have with others.  At the very least we know Who wins in the end and if we study we will be better prepared for the 'next woe'...

Also why are you presuming that the Bible of all the books, supports such an evil practice as Astrology, when it is clearly condemned in many areas?

i can never understand you people, who use the Holy Book, to corrupt the minds of believers with confusion and misleading.

Nice trick that, to use scriptures out of the context of the biblical meaning, to presume that it somehow, indirectly, refers to elements of astrology and that the virgin means to refer to the constellation of Virgo and the son means Jupiter!!!

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge
Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard
their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world

Again scripture taken out of the context of biblical meaning! This does not represent a hint towards Astrology it was never meant to be interpreted this way! The Heavens declare the Glory of God - The vastness of space, the intricate nature of the clouds, the day and night cycle. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge, the beauty of the day-time sky the nature of the Sun and how wonderful it is a natural source of light and warmth, and at night the myriad of stars and all the other worlds that can be around each of them, and the visible worlds in our system alone - the way the position of the stars orbiting around the center of the galaxy, when viewed from different regions of the solar system hint at the location of the Earth in the solar system. This genius way to help people predict when certain seasons are coming due to earth's position around the sun.
It's beauty tells stories without end!.

So many other knowledge is revealed by the heavens other than astrology! In fact the mere fact that it is associated with the pagan and evil Gods of ancient societies is evident enough.

This is pure evil and ignorance and of the realm of darkness.

There's NO logically sound scripture that when taken in it's full context supports astrology!
Funny how astrology and reincarnation go hand in hand. It is magic and mysticism.

Astrology is a form of Divination which is not something God intended for any of His creatures to practice.

Despite this not ONE element of Astrology brings conclusive facts. First of all the Constellations which the mystics have drawn on the night sky (that's right it is a drawing of man) are not in their shape if you look from space. When you go to one of either of the stars of any constellation, you'll see immediately how they are not in the same position as put from earth.

Also Astrology fails at predicting so many stuff accurately that it is turned absolutely pathetic and ridiculous.
So many books and articles and different calculations and even different horoscopes are created every day in order to desperately try to compensate for the inconsistencies, it takes only a blind man not to see the broken tapestry this practice of darkness actually is.

The Prophets NEVER adhered to astrology to receive revelation! And to presume The Son (Yahshuah our Lord is somehow linked with Jupiter a head pagan god - who if you know anything about said entity is that HE ATE HIS CHILDREN ALIVE whilst they were crying in despair - is an abomination)

The truth is simple and easy to digest, not full of calculations and maps and rituals, and meanings and side meanings to define those meanings and so on.
When you have Yahshuah you don't need magic (which essentially this is what it is) Praying to the stars for revelation. Plain and simple.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

I have not read all the debates here, sorry, but i can reassure tyou that Reincarnation does not exist and nor is it needed.

If you look upon scripture and what Jesus proves in This world, then it is that the very "property" of death isn't a natural element in existence but a consequence of sin. (to what extent there's no reason to ask as you can summarise that the whole universe has been corrupted by death - so even if you look in how adapted nature seems to be with death and how essential it seems in certain parts, this can only be due to the infinite complexity of creation and how it, as a living organism, has tried to fight this disease off by adapting to it.)

Therefore if Death isn't a natural property of creation nor has it ever been planned by God, then reincarnation cannot exist because no creature ever meet's it's end.

If creation was never meant to experience an end there's no need for reincarnation.

Plus reincarnation is an enemy of infinity in so many ways you cannot imagine. If things ought to repeat endlessly in an uroboric - like cycle then that dispels the infiniteness of variety through time and outside of time.

It is best to leave this subject to satan where it comes from.

Also i forgot to add, that reincarnation is basically an ignorant way to try to satisfy our innate need to exist forever anyway!

Which said need essentially proves that we were never meant to experience an end and therefore nullifies this very subject...  :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

I have not read all the debates here, sorry, but i can reassure tyou that Reincarnation does not exist and nor is it needed.

If you look upon scripture and what Jesus proves in This world, then it is that the very "property" of death isn't a natural element in existence but a consequence of sin. (to what extent there's no reason to ask as you can summarise that the whole universe has been corrupted by death - so even if you look in how adapted nature seems to be with death and how essential it seems in certain parts, this can only be due to the infinite complexity of creation and how it, as a living organism, has tried to fight this disease off by adapting to it.)

Therefore if Death isn't a natural property of creation nor has it ever been planned by God, then reincarnation cannot exist because no creature ever meet's it's end.

If creation was never meant to experience an end there's no need for reincarnation.

Plus reincarnation is an enemy of infinity in so many ways you cannot imagine. If things ought to repeat endlessly in an uroboric - like cycle then that dispels the infiniteness of variety through time and outside of time.

It is best to leave this subject to satan where it comes from.

Also i forgot to add, that reincarnation is basically an ignorant way to try to satisfy our innate need to exist forever anyway!

Which said need essentially proves that we were never meant to experience an end and therefore nullifies this very subject...  :HeartThrob:

Don't know if others see what I see, but in my opinion, I see:

"the becoming higher on the food chain" in evolution is a fleshly explanation of the spiritual aspect of "growing in wisdom"

And that:

"the constant repeating of oneself" in reincarnation is a fleshly explanation of the spiritual aspect of God having to "repeat Himself" again and again because man is stubborn (stiff necked)

my  :2c:

[Shadrak-Daniel]

 :iagree: