what was before creation

claypot · October 03, 2020, 02:57:06 AM

Maybe Jesus was on to something when He said something like 'This is eternal life that they might know the Father.'

According to this, eternal doesn't have anything to do with time but rather knowing.

Great words everyone

marie glen · October 03, 2020, 01:30:50 PM

Quote from: claypot on September 29, 2020, 03:54:12 PM
I did not finish my thoughts on 'In a beginning'

I see that God creates many beginnings. Jesus is the Beginning.

I know many think differently but I too think Jesus was ?a? beginning.. ?first born of all creation?.
I believe before any act of creation, God the Father could see all and every possibility and potentiality.. from its first to last. And created an only begotten / only straight out from Him one that all else is to exist within and through whom all and everything else was created.
The end result being all rational beings being sort of ?trinities? of God Most High and His Spirit/Presence, and the Son ?forever preeminent? and the individual (in comparison a speck.. but called by God a ?jewel in the day He makes up His jewels?.
I also agree with Joeteekay?s description of ?beginning?...
And likely a lot more in this thread but haven?t read more.. :Peace2:

claypot · October 05, 2020, 03:39:45 PM

I can't even comprehend a no space or time realm but it's exciting trying to.

Mickiel · October 05, 2020, 06:20:05 PM

Actually in John 1:1-7, it was Jesus who created all things, I am sure under God's direction. But it reveals just how powerful he is. I think Jesus "Proceeded forth and came from God", sounds like a birth to me.

claypot · October 06, 2020, 12:54:21 AM

What do you think of this thought of mine:

Everything is God. Now I think there is some new age religion that teaches this but I think not in the way I mean. Think about it, there is no other original material other than what I call 'God stuff'.

Jesus is a birth of God but of course Jesus is extremely special and unique.

What doesn't proceed forth and come from God?

Again, I like to use an analogy of the drop from the ocean. The drop contains everything that is the ocean yet it is not the ocean because the ocean is the whole body of water.

We are 'drops' of God. We are not God but there is nothing in our make up that is not God.

Make sense? cp

CHB · October 06, 2020, 06:39:24 PM

marie, claypot, sounds sensible to me. :dsunny:

CHB

WhiteWings · October 06, 2020, 09:52:05 PM

We live in a 3D universe, with 4t dimension called time.
In the 3 dimensions we can walk back and forth, in time we can only go forward.

But there is something like the string theory, that already discovered 10 dimensions. Prepare for a headache when reading that stuff... :-)
The point is that with so many dimensions, lots of possibilities open. For example walking trough time as you walk through a house. Left, right, up, down and everything in between.
Those things exist, but are out of our reach.
Not claiming I fully understand the string theory, far faaar from, but I think it opens possibilities like a 1000 years is like a day.

Time can't exist without matter. (at least not in our universe)

claypot · October 07, 2020, 04:06:54 PM

3d, 4th dimension, string theory.................seem to be creations of this brain of ours. We are so limited by this brain. It's like we are hardwired to go so far and no further. Again, for me, it's exhilerating to attempt to go to the limit and that limit for me gets me to a place where time and space do not exist. Just plain and simple do not exist. We are brainwashed or hardwired to believe in time and space and Jesus seems to be calling us out of this belief into another belief, belief in Him. 'He' is with us and beyond where our brains can reach.

At one time many believed the world was flat. It just was. No other belief existed UNTIL someone was given the thought that maybe the earth is not flat. Now the belief that the world is flat doesn't even exist in our minds. This is how it will probably be with the question I have put forth here about what was before God. With further illumination that question will vanish.

All your thoughts are still so appreciated.

cp

jugghead · October 08, 2020, 01:04:00 AM

Now this ought to blow your mind ...

Since God contains all knowledge and information (knows everything), what if all memories, what we call a memory, is for God ... a manifestation of a physical moment, so to say that ... to travel through time (as our mind can comprehend it) what if, what we could actually do is, not so much travel through time, but travel through the memories of God, which can go along with string theory, with multiple, if not infinite dimensions.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "Interstellar"? There is one part where it shows every moment of time in a three dimensional space. I found it fascinating.

claypot · October 10, 2020, 03:22:11 AM

Memories or thoughts of God. Great thoughts Jugghead.

Something just came to me the other day and I'll probably be banned from here once you hear it (not really, I don't think).

I see that there is a realm outside of what we percieve as time and space. Because of this what we believe here (that all things will be made new as our Lord tells us) makes sense because once we are done here within these walls of time and space we will be filled with God (God will be all in all) and move on into 'BEING'.

Ok, my new thought is that good and evil won't even exist in the next phase of living because those realities can only exist in this realm of space and time where there are certain rules which I don't believe will exist in our next phase.

Any thoughts?

cp

WhiteWings · October 10, 2020, 09:14:44 PM

Quote from: claypot on October 07, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
3d, 4th dimension, string theory.................We are brainwashed or hardwired to believe in time and space a

I wrote the opposite.

CHB · October 10, 2020, 09:19:01 PM

Quote from: claypot on October 10, 2020, 03:22:11 AM
Memories or thoughts of God. Great thoughts Jugghead.

Something just came to me the other day and I'll probably be banned from here once you hear it (not really, I don't think).

I see that there is a realm outside of what we percieve as time and space. Because of this what we believe here (that all things will be made new as our Lord tells us) makes sense because once we are done here within these walls of time and space we will be filled with God (God will be all in all) and move on into 'BEING'.

Ok, my new thought is that good and evil won't even exist in the next phase of living because those realities can only exist in this realm of space and time where there are certain rules which I don't believe will exist in our next phase.

Any thoughts?

cp

I think only good will exist, I think it would have to , considering God is good. Can you imagine a place without evil?

CHB

Andrew · October 10, 2020, 11:40:34 PM

Posted by Jugghead

"Now this ought to blow your mind ...

Since God contains all knowledge and information (knows everything), what if all memories, what we call a memory, is for God ... a manifestation of a physical moment, so to say that ... to travel through time (as our mind can comprehend it) what if, what we could actually do is, not so much travel through time, but travel through the memories of God, which can go along with string theory, with multiple, if not infinite dimensions.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "Interstellar"? There is one part where it shows every moment of time in a three dimensional space. I found it fascinating."

And if this is the case, then our free-will is the ability to choose the God memory/timeline from the multiple God memories/timelines available which would allow God to remember it from a 3d framework and therefore experience the event (somewhat) physically that we choose; which would logically explain how He shares in our pain and joy.

But we must be careful not to tread into new age thought as some new agers would suggest that the purpose of life is just to give experiences to God, no matter what they are. But I would affirm that if we are travelling through God's memories; some of those memories' sole purpose is for the freedom of choice, and it is His wish that we do not choose them. Remember to choose Life.

claypot · October 11, 2020, 03:21:51 AM

Greetings CHB, yes good will exist because God is good so that's a given but good won't need to be recognized, it will BE.

Sorry Whitewings, I didn't mean to misinterpret your words. Will be more careful in future.

The world outside of this wonderful creation of our Father just draws me like nothing else. I wonder why.

I think that this topic is difficult because what our vision is of a realm where time and space do not exist is so unique to each of us that it is hard to impossible to explain it in words to each other.

The interstellar movie thoughts, Jugghead, are fascinating but I can't get my head around it. I think I saw the movie and liked it but I'll have to look into it again sometime.

cp

jugghead · October 12, 2020, 12:51:44 AM

I don't remember if I posted it in my thread, but I once wrote a short article on "good, bad, and righteousness" simply understood in the example of "thou shall not steal"

That it is bad to steal
It is good to not steal

But what is righteous is "to give"

Which is what I come to understand what (I believe) Paul meant when he said that "righteousness does not come through the law", we can be a good person by not stealing, but we only become a righteous person by giving, which I also see in what Paul meant when he said the law was our tutor, it could teach us "good and bad" but it fell short in teaching us what was righteous, which leads me to

"Righteousness can only come through Christ"

my :2c:

CHB · October 17, 2020, 08:22:32 PM

Quote from: jugghead on October 12, 2020, 12:51:44 AM
I don't remember if I posted it in my thread, but I once wrote a short article on "good, bad, and righteousness" simply understood in the example of "thou shall not steal"

That it is bad to steal
It is good to not steal

But what is righteous is "to give"

Which is what I come to understand what (I believe) Paul meant when he said that "righteousness does not come through the law", we can be a good person by not stealing, but we only become a righteous person by giving, which I also see in what Paul meant when he said the law was our tutor, it could teach us "good and bad" but it fell short in teaching us what was righteous, which leads me to

"Righteousness can only come through Christ"

my :2c:

Jughead,

I would really like to read this article you mentioned. I really liked what you said above.

CHB

jugghead · October 17, 2020, 09:16:01 PM

Quote from: CHB on October 17, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: jugghead on October 12, 2020, 12:51:44 AM
I don't remember if I posted it in my thread, but I once wrote a short article on "good, bad, and righteousness" simply understood in the example of "thou shall not steal"

That it is bad to steal
It is good to not steal

But what is righteous is "to give"

Which is what I come to understand what (I believe) Paul meant when he said that "righteousness does not come through the law", we can be a good person by not stealing, but we only become a righteous person by giving, which I also see in what Paul meant when he said the law was our tutor, it could teach us "good and bad" but it fell short in teaching us what was righteous, which leads me to

"Righteousness can only come through Christ"

my :2c:

Jughead,

I would really like to read this article you mentioned. I really liked what you said above.

CHB

Hi CHB, here is a direct link to it

https://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/tidbits-of-jugghead/msg214094/#msg214094

rosered · October 18, 2020, 08:28:28 PM

777 DROW -S

i LOVE what you shared here !! I do get what you are saying ... and it is refreshing to hear you speak from your heart of these BEAUTIFUL things pertaining to GOD .

rosered · October 18, 2020, 09:03:47 PM

Having to describe things is difficult at best
But I see God as a Grand Master filling in all the spaces , but we lack the ability to think like God does .........

That said , I can only hope to share this little bit of what helps me to cope with the way things are discussed .

we are given the ability to reap what we sow , like being compared to trees , with times and seasons that can produce

seeds and growth to the flesh or to the Spirit both are being made known in the earth as we become more aware of our own doings .

I to believe GOD IS AND WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE GOD , and as main source and an energy like a great grid of complexity , fine tuned to the many different needs to be met .
LOVE has always been the motivator of such a beautiful creation and is yet to be made known and felt fully till the perfect and complete plan is finished in its entirety .

I do not think we can even go into the place of true unveiling until we are free from the burden of the flesh completely.

For me , as I can tell , we get glimpses and powerful motivators of truth to kind of push us along in the right direction when we do seek to see the Lords face in sincerity .

Again for me , I do not think it is going to be anything like most expect it to be , including my own lack .

I found proverbs 8 and 9 helpful in the way creation was formed and by whom they were made before the world was .

GOD IN HIS WISDOM has kept the veil over many things , not only to protect us, but also that mystery yet to be made known .
and in that GLORY OF GOD to be expressed in its totality ,by reaching every tiny detail .
for me it is a impossible task to even describe , that only GOD has a right to express . I am so happy to wait on the LORD and excited to to SEE HIM in all His glory and splendor .............

Glory to God in His love and infinite Wisdom !!!!!!!!!!!

Andrew · October 23, 2020, 07:34:05 PM

Posted by 777 DROW-S

"God is light. - Light is energy. - Energy is consciousness.
God is the collective consciousness of all.
God is EVERYTHING and thus EVERYTHING is God. "I will walk 'in' them", says the Lord. We are 'Co-heirs' because this world was created for the spiritual man (the 'Christ' (2nd Adam))...The overcomer. "I have overcome the world" (beast system/carnal/flesh etc).
God is love. Love creates, hate destroys, hence Love (GOD) is the 'Creator' (Creative Power).
God is 'spirit' (not physical). God/Love/Wisdom/Truth...God is 'eternal'...Always exists, for God is also 'LIFE'.
Who can argue that life on earth is like walking into a huge library where all the books are already written and the information is just there waiting on us to discover it? There is nothing new under the sun and all is of God.
God animates (gives life) to our bodies to grow our souls (being). "In Him we live and move and have our 'being'"."

Some thought-provoking ideas here. Could you expound on your statement that "God is the collective consciousness of all"

I have heard this idea in new age circles - my former life - but from a Christian perspective I would wonder if that statement somehow alludes that if God is the collective consciousness of all - then there would be an aspect of God that is subject to change, when Biblically speaking God never changes?

claypot · October 28, 2020, 02:21:47 AM

I've been thinking that it's the 'miracles' that are where it's at. I think the miracles are the norm. What we call miracles are normal activity in the realm that Jesus kept telling us about. They are hints of the life all around us, the normal life of 'is'.

Maybe you all can help me by citing some of the more mysterious sayings of our Lord like He is the Bread, where I go you cannot come yet, you have seen me then you have seen the Father.............

Can you imagine coming from a place way higher than this place and then trying to explain it to another?

claypot · October 31, 2020, 03:52:44 PM

What was before creation......

Thinking this thought can really put things into perspective. It can put the election into perspective. God has been running this show for a long time! He's done an incredible job so far hasn't He? He will continue to do so. He was before this minor creation and He will be after. He "IS' during this aspect of life. We have nothing to worry about. How many companies or countries have survived over 6000 years and are still in business? I still see the leaves in the trees, the rivers flowing, deer running, a myriad of amazing life in the oceans, the sun 'rising' and 'setting' and so on.

What was 'before' creation? God.
What IS? God.
What is 'after' creation? God.

Let your mind dwell on this question and peace will come.
THY will be done as it has always been and is and will forever be done!!!!!

cp

marie glen · November 07, 2020, 03:14:18 PM

Quote from: claypot on October 31, 2020, 03:52:44 PM
What was before creation......

Thinking this thought can really put things into perspective. It can put the election into perspective. God has been running this show for a long time! He's done an incredible job so far hasn't He? He will continue to do so. He was before this minor creation and He will be after. He "IS' during this aspect of life. We have nothing to worry about. How many companies or countries have survived over 6000 years and are still in business? I still see the leaves in the trees, the rivers flowing, deer running, a myriad of amazing life in the oceans, the sun 'rising' and 'setting' and so on.

What was 'before' creation? God.
What IS? God.
What is 'after' creation? God.

Let your mind dwell on this question and peace will come.
THY will be done as it has always been and is and will forever be done!!!!!

cp

Amen! He ?is perfect? and complete! What He is doing, and how and why, is Amazingly Glorious..
The thing that gets me.. I have great difficulty getting my head around the idea of no time.. or outside of time.. no matter if I try, it just does not compute in my head..

This post, above quoted, is SO beautifully said! :cloud9:

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what was before creation