Jesus Returned in Power and Glory

[DavidFord]

IMO, unless otherwise noted.

"In Matthew 5, Jesus is telling us to keep the commandments, which has to be God's Law-10 Commandments.  So many believers say they were abolished but that makes no sense"

In the Mosaic period i.e. the Old Covenant period, *nobody* kept all the commandments all the time.  We are now living in the New Covenant period.  Yeshua the Meshikha made this possible.

How Heaven and Earth Passed Away
http://ecclesia.org/truth/heaven-earth.html

"I'm still going to believe my lord and savior over Mans word"
There is a hell, and the devil and demons exist.  Jesus said that he'd draw all men unto himself, and I believe him.  Jesus likened God to a shepherd who goes after and successfully gets the lost sheep, and I believe him-- do you?

[marie glen]

IMO, unless otherwise noted.

"In Matthew 5, Jesus is telling us to keep the commandments, which has to be God's Law-10 Commandments.  So many believers say they were abolished but that makes no sense"

..but not as a condition of redemption.. which most NT letters go into.. because there was so much pressure from the Judean believers that gentiles become Judean.. so Paul with others went to Jerusalem to meet with the (other) apostles to discuss - Acts 5

At which they concluded - " For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.."

Some think we must observe the Sabbath, but Paul as we know wrote "Let each one be persuaded in their own mind.. let us put no stumblingblock before others.." etc "one esteems one day above others unto the LORD, and another esteems all days alike, let each be.." (persuaded in their own mind..)

And in 1 Tim.1:8-10 says "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

The carnal character needs reminders, do not harm, rob, defraud, cheat.. etc and a carnal nation needs to set aside a day to remember God..

In the Mosaic period i.e. the Old Covenant period, *nobody* kept all the commandments all the time.  We are now living in the New Covenant period.  Yeshua the Meshikha made this possible.

Amen some believers will be saved but like by fire.. barely snatched from it(?) if they have clung to the carnal ways

How Heaven and Earth Passed Away
http://ecclesia.org/truth/heaven-earth.html

"I'm still going to believe my lord and savior over Mans word"

But the link is interpretation..

I prefer straight word not ppl's interpretations

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

People are skilled at adding to and taking away from the straight forward as inspired Word(s) of God.. it would be better, imo, to quote the Word itself, sans interpretation.. who assigned aLL these so wise interpreters? That they can improve upon His words.. I didn't buy it 40 years ago and thus have avoided a LOT of indoctrination it seems.. and I'm not buying it any more today.

I think the key to knowing true from not so true is the scripture itself. That way any error should eventually fade away..

There is a hell, and the devil and demons exist.  Jesus said that he'd draw all men unto himself, and I believe him.  Jesus likened God to a shepherd who goes after and successfully gets the lost sheep, and I believe him-- do you?

I agree.. except for hell.. will God torture even for a duration until one submits? Funny how some of those who inquisitioned folks, came to imagine a purgatory.. Some words have had myth attached to them.

sheol - where there is no knowledge nor doing - Eccles. 9:10 "vanity, vanity" with man "all is vanity"
hades - place of the dead, residing of the dead, unseen - imo, still the grave - lower part of the Earth, dust of the grave
pit - where worms are the bed and covering - Isaiah 14; and the dust of - Ps.30
tartarus - deepest darkness (over time myth attached to the word) rebel angels are locked into deep darkness & judgment
gehenna a valley, hinnom tophet, jezreel..
I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I will enter into judgment against them there concerning my people Israel who are my inheritance, whom they scattered among the nations" Joel 3:2 .."valley of decision" Joel 3:14 "I will make Israel (Jerusalem?) a stone of offense to all nations.."

"They have built places here for worship of the god Baal so that they could sacrifice their children as burnt offerings to him in the fire. Such sacrifices are something I never commanded them to make! They are something I never told them to do! Indeed, such a thing never entered my mind! So I, the LORD, say: 'The time will soon come that people will no longer call this place Topheth or the Hinnom Valley. But they will call this valley the Valley of Slaughter!'" Jer.9:5-6

harsh? "..but joy cometh in the morning.. "at morn, singing.." I am not in agreement with reducing these verses to simile and parable only..

I believe there is a mushroom which will trigger a lake/flood of fire in that very valley. "All shall look upon the carcasses" - the results of living life with other than God on the throne ruling all - "and they will be repulsed" thoroughly repulsed.. enough to bar the way of it occurring again.
    :banana: ps - death and hell (what is partner to death?) death and the grave will go to the final (imo) lake of fire

-- 2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness will dwell."
    :Peace2: God bless!

[DavidFord]

"Following and praying to a fake dead messiah is one of the worst things you can do" 
Yes, Yeshua the Meshikha died, but then he rose from the dead-- he's currently alive. 
"If Jesus is so clearly 'the Messiah' why did the Jews of the time reject him?" 
True Jews of the time e.g. Peter Paul Stephen Nathaniel Barnabus Yehuda and Mary accepted Yeshua as being the Meshikha.   
"Weren't we looking for the messiah??" 
Many at the time correctly recognized that Yeshua was the Meshikha.  Some didn't.
"Of all the people on earth, who do you think would be the best qualified to actually KNOW if someone was valid, or a false prophet?"

"Jews whom loved and adored Caesar"
Many adherents of Judaism rejected Yeshua the Meshikha as being the long-awaited Messiah, and embraced obvious frauds, to their detriment.

"Jews were devastated"
People who place their trust in untrustworthy things and untrustworthy people are apt to be devastated. Who or what do you trust in?

George Peter Holford's _The Destruction of Jerusalem_ (1805, 1814, 1858)
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1805_holford_proof.html 
https://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Jerusalem-Absolute-Irresistible-Christianity/dp/0967831725/
PDF http://vladspost.com/pdf/Jews/Destruction%2520of%2520Jerusalem.pdf    From the html:
"Tell us, when shall these things be-- and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled ?" Such were the questions of the disciples, in answer to which our LORD condescended to give them a particular account of the several important events that would precede, as well as of the prognostics which would announce, the approaching desolations ; including suitable directions for the regulation of their conduct under the various trials to which they were to be exposed.

He commences with a caution : "Take heed," says be, "that no man deceive you ; for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many." The necessity for this friendly warning soon appeared ; for within one year after our Lord's ascension, rose Dositheus the Samaritan, who had the boldness to assert that he was the Messiah, of whom Moses prophesied ; while his disciple Simon Magus deluded multitudes into a belief that he, himself, was the "GREAT POWER OF GOD." 
About three years afterwards another Samaritan impostor appeared, and declared that he would shew the people the sacred utensils, said to have been deposited by Moses, in mount Gerizim.  Induced by an idea that the Messiah, their great deliverer, was now come, an armed multitude assembled under him, but Pilate speedily defeated them, and slew their chief. 
While Cuspius Fadus was procurator in Judea, another deceiver arose, whose name was Theudas. [4]  This man actually succeeded so far as to persuade a very great multitude to take their effects and follow him to Jordan, assuring them, that the river would divide at his command. Fadus, however, pursued their with a troop of horse, and slew many of them, and among the rest the impostor himself, whose head was cut off and carried to Jerusalem.
Under the government of Felix, deceivers rose up daily in Judea, and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should there behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the ALMIGHTY. Of these Felix, from time to time, apprehended many, and put them to death. About this period (A.D. 55) arose Felix the celebrated Egyptian impostor, who collected thirty-thousand followers, and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling, them that from thence they should see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command, as, a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison, and to their obtaining the sovereignty of the city. The Roman governor, however, apprehending this to be the beginning of revolt, immediately attacked them, slew four hundred of them, and dispersed the rest ; but the Egyptian effected his escape.
In the time of Porcius Festus (A.D. 60), another distinguished impostor seduced the people, by promising them deliverance from the Roman yoke, if they would follow him into the wilderness ; but Festus sent out an armed force which speedily destroyed both the deceiver and his followers.
In short, impostors, to a divine commission, continually and fatally deceived the people, and at once justified the caution, and fulfilled the prediction of our LORD.

If it be objected that none of these impostors, except Dositheus, assumed the name of Messiah, we reply, that the groveling expectations of the Jews was directed to a Messiah who should merely deliver them from the Roman yoke, and "restore the kingdom to Jerusalem ;" and such were the pretensions of these deceivers. This expectation, indeed, is the only true solution of these strange and reputed insurrections ; which will naturally remind the reader of the following prophetic expressions of our LORD : "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not ; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." " If they shall say unto you, 'Behold he is in the desert !' go not forth. They will shew [5] (or pretend to shew) great signs and wonders,"' &c.  Our Saviour thus proceeded : "And ye shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars ; see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet, for nation shall rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences : all these are the beginnings of sorrows. " -- Matt. xxiv. 7,8.

[DavidFord]

Based on material at:   The Problem with Eternal Punishment - The Total Victory of Christ
https://youtu.be/cgeUgd3A4gY
IMO unless otherwise noted.

In the Mosaic period i.e. the Old Covenant period, nobody kept all the commandments all the time.  We are now living in the New Covenant period.  Yeshua the Meshikha made this possible.
How Heaven and Earth Passed Away
http://ecclesia.org/truth/heaven-earth.html

"Since when does anyone abolish a law or a rule just because 'nobody' keeps it?" 
God isn't a mere "anyone."  God abolished the old covenant.  People weren't keeping it, and God had sufficient bolstering of his message that humans are incapable of perfect righteousness in their own efforts.

"to say we don't need His Laws, the 10 Statements ('commandments' is NOT a proper translation) is illogical" 
Er, those were commandments, not mere statements.  Do you think we need the prohibition of mixing clothing materials?
"Or we don't have to pay attention to not committing adultery, or theft?" 
If you love God and love people, you won't engage in adultery, nor thievery.
"I read the article you included the link to.  It is not accurate.  Christ said 'the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AMONG YOU, and it is that kingdom, a spiritual mindset and purpose, that puts us there"
Do you think "kingdom of Heaven" is equivalent to "heaven and earth"?

"Yehoshua is telling us to keep the commandments, which has to be Gods Law-10 Commandments" 
Which of the 10 Commandments involves tithing?

Matthew 23:23 (based on Paul Younan's translation of the original Aramaic), http://dukhrana.com
Woe to you Sapra [Scribes] and Pharisees. Hypocrites!
For you tithe mint and dill and cumana [cumin],
and you overlook the more important things of the namusa [law]:
dina [justice] and mercy and faith.
And these things were necessary for you to have done,
and these things you should not have forgotten.

"The Law is a 'teacher', it teaches us what sin is, how to stop engaging in it, and from there reach a level where we no longer even want to commit sin"
How did being under the law work out for Israel?  (she forever stopped sinning?  she reached "a level where" she "no longer even want[ed] to commit sin"?)

Romans 7 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+7&version=NKJV
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But *if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.*  3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, *my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead,* that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the *sinful passions which were aroused by the law* were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.  6 *But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by,* *so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.*

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless *the law had said, "You shall not covet."  8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire.*  For apart from the law sin was dead. 9  I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And *the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.*  11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

"change all those useless laws He made" 
The Mosaic Age ended, and we are presently in the Messianic Age.  Are you aware of anyone (possible exception:  Jesus) who kept the law perfectly?
John 7:19 (NKJV), https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=keep+law&qs_version=NKJV&limit=500
Did not Moses give you the law,
*yet none of you keeps the law?* 
Why do you seek to kill Me?"

Do you think males that become Christians need to be circumcised, if they aren't already?
Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Acts 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

Do you think Jesus-- who is God-- has the ability to revise the law?
Matthew 17 (NKJV), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+17&version=NKJV
3 And behold, *Moses* and Elijah *appeared* to them, *talking with Him [Jesus].*  .... 5 .... a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, *"This is My beloved Son,* in whom I am well pleased.  *Hear Him [Jesus]!"*
Matthew 5 (NKJV), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5&version=NKJV
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'  22 *But I say to you that....*
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'  28 *But I say to you that....*
31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'  32 *But I say to you that....*

"so God needed to learn that His creation couldn't keep His 'commandments'?" 
God knows the future, and God created the human heart.  God already knew that humans couldn't and wouldn't keep His commandments, but rather would sin willfully and regularly, and God knew all this long before he made the first human.  Do you agree with me that God knows the future?  Do you see a commandment by God here?:

Genesis 2 (NKJV), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+2&version=NKJV
15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.  16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but *of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,* for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

[DavidFord]

Do you agree with me that:
all humans will eventually become reconciled on their end to God, and enter heaven?
God still talks to and with people, and God still does 'miracles'?
the events prophesied in Mt 24 and pretty much all of Revelation already happened?
all of creation will eventually become restored to the way God at the outset intended things to be?

266. A Happy Eschatology
https://freedomarc.blog/2019/08/15/266-a-happy-eschatology/
Three streams
In conversation with God, He told me that there are three streams coming together. At present, there are a handful of people who flow with two of those streams, and even fewer who embrace all three. For now, each is mostly blind to the direction that the others are coming from but they will merge in the flow of the restoration of all things.

The Christian Universalists are travelling towards both a realised eschatology and an open heaven mystical flow.
The mystics are travelling towards a realised eschatology and universal restoration.
The realised eschatologists are travelling towards the mystical and the restoration of all things position.
Most eschatological systems have far from happy endings, involving expectations of fearful judgment, doom, gloom, destruction and failure for mankind and the rest of creation. In "happy eschatology", prophecies of doom and gloom, judgment and destruction are seen as already fulfilled, leading to a restorative period in which all things can be restored. The future is positive and filled with possibilities of increase and blessing.

[FineLinen]

The ending is the beginning. Our God is Author and Perfector of all. The doom and gloom proponents think our great God is unable to accomplish His plan of being the Source, Guide & Goal of the ta panta (the all). How wrong they be!

[DavidFord]

The ending is the beginning. Our God is Author and Perfector of all. The doom and gloom proponents think our great God is unable to accomplish His plan of being the Source, Guide & Goal of the ta panta (the all). How wrong they be!

Indeed.  We're living in an era where God's kingdom keeps expanding, keeps getting stronger and stronger, via him working through us humans that have physical bodies.  And we have a role to play in that expansion.

Daniel 2 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/2.htm
34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. 36 "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king.  ....
44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. "The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

Romans 8 (Berean Literal), https://biblehub.com/blb/romans/8.htm
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation awaits the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of the One having subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay, into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

[DavidFord]

Revelation 11: A Preterist Commentary-- Who are the Two Witnesses?
https://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-11-a-preterist-commentary-who-are-the-two-witnesses/
.... I present historical evidence that Jesus the son of Ananus is the two witnesses of Revelation 11.  It appears to me that there can be no better candidate for the two witnesses than this man as he seems to fulfill perhaps all the predictions concerning this figure or figures as described in the text.

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"Did Jesus ever have people walk down an aisle, confess their sins and be saved?" 
Did John the Baptiser?

Acts 13:24 (NIV, biblehub) Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.
Matthew 3:11 (NIV) "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

"Salvation only meant that the Jews, Israelites would be saved from the historic burning of Jeruselem"
According to my research, 0 followers of Yeshua the Meshikha died in the destruction of Jerusalem, because they heeded Yeshua's Matthew 24 warnings.  In sharp contrast, many many thousands of adherents of Judaism died premature deaths in awful ways in Jerusalem's destruction.

George Peter Holford's _The Destruction of Jerusalem_ (1805, 1814, 1858)
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1805_holford_proof.html
https://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Jerusalem-Absolute-Irresistible-Christianity/dp/0967831725/
PDF http://vladspost.com/pdf/Jews/Destruction%2520of%2520Jerusalem.pdf

Romans 3 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub
28 We determine therefore that by faith a man is made righteous and not by the works of The Written Law. 29 Is he The God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also. 30 Because God is One, who declares the circumcision righteous by faith and also the uncircumcision by faith.

////////////////////
So the 'new heavens and the new earth' haven't yet come, in your view. 
Do you think the Old Covenant law is still in effect?

Matthew 5 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English, biblehub)
17 Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets;
I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
18 Amen, I say to you that
until Heaven and earth will pass away,
one Yodh or one Taag will not pass away from The Written Law
until everything will happen.

When was the Old Covenant system created? Which verse(s) are you looking at?

Did Edom have a 'heaven and earth'?  (I'm looking at Isaiah 34)
Did Babylon have a 'heaven and earth'? (I'm looking at Isaiah 13, esp. verses 9-10, 13)
Did the land of Israel have a 'heaven and earth'? (I'm looking at Isaiah 24, esp. verses 1, 5-6, 21, 25)

Cain intentionally killed his brother Abel.  Was that a sin?
Is there any Old Testament support for the view that 'gentiles' means 'descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who were uninterested in following the law of Moses'?

//////////////////////////////
Do you need Rev 20:5a for any of your claims?  It's not well-supported.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/5467/can-revelation-205-the-rest-of-the-dead-rightfully-claim-to-be-part-of-the
The phrase in question is:
οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.
....
Weight for Inclusion

Of the six witnesses of first order that contain Revelation 20:5, three are with the phrase and three without.
With the phrase are:
Codex Alexandrinus (early 5th c.)
Codex Athous Pantokratoros (10th c.)
The majority of manuscripts containing the commentary of Andrew of Caesarea

Without the phrase are:
Codex Sinaiticus (early to mid 4th c.)
Codex Ephraimi (6th c.)
Majority of witnesses of second order

In addition, the phrase appears in the majority of early Latin manuscripts, but not in Syriac or Coptic.

Tomasz Reklamy - 2 years ago, light editing
https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1936/08/is-revelation-205-spurious
According to Novum Testamentum Greace Nestle-Aland this phrase of this verse is not in the Sinaitic - why do you write that it is? From 181 Greek manuscripts, 71 do not contain phrase "The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished."
It does not exist in Pes hito as well - and in some early commentaries of Revelation like Victorius from Pettau and Oecumenius (here this phrase exist in a comment, but not in a cited Revelation text above).

[CHB]

Hi David,

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe we must keep the commandments?  Do you believe keeping law saves us? If yes to these two questions, what did we need Jesus for? Just wondering.

CHB

[DavidFord]

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe we must keep the commandments? 
Do you believe keeping law saves us?
If yes to these two questions, what did we need Jesus for?

Yes, those commandments to 1. love God, and 2. love people.
No. 
Not applicable.

/////////////////////////////////////////////
Yeshua the Meshikha kept his promises and returned as of the end of A.D. 70, and has since then made many additional appearances to various people.

[CHB]

yes, I agree those two commandments override all the others. On these two laws hang all the laws and the prophets.

CHB

[DavidFord]

Caesar Titus stood in the temple.

A Preterist Commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12: Summary and Highlights
https://revelationrevolution.org/2-thessalonians-2-1-9-a-preterist-commentary-the-man-of-lawlessness-revealed/
In 168 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies sacrificed a PIG and set up an IDOL of a foreign god in the Temple (1 Macc 1:59; 2 Macc 6:1-2; Wars 1.1.2) This is the original abomination that causes desolation of Dan 11:31.  TITUS DID THE SAME THING in A.D. 70 when Titus' army worshiped the ensigns (foreign idols of Rome and Caesar) in the Temple (Wars 6.6.1) and sacrificed a PIG there as part of suovetaurilia. Not only did Titus mimic Antiochus Epiphanies' original abomination that causes desolation, Titus also shares all of Antiochus Epiphanies' epithets. Antiochus Epiphanies is the original '"Lawless One" having been given this title in the second century B.C. (Psalms of Solomon 17:9-16).  Antiochus Epiphanies is also called "the man, the sinner" (1 Macc 2:48, 62), and the "Little Horn" (Dan 8).  Having mimicked (and even exceeded) Antiochus Epiphanies, Titus is ALSO called "the Lawless One" (2 Thess 2), "Man of Sin" (2 Thess 2) and "Little Horn" (Dan 7).  Titus represents an antitypical return of Antiochus Epiphanies, the quintessential historical Jewish nemesis.

Josephus says that Titus entered the Holy of Holies with his generals in A.D. 70. 1  Shortly thereafter, Titus was worshipped in the Temple in A.D. 70 as was customary of someone declared imperator in fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4: "He sets Himself up in God's Temple displaying himself as a god."  Josephus writes, "And now the Romans . . . brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator."2 A metallic image of Vespasian and Titus was also worshipped at that time.  The image of Vespasian and Titus was found on the ensign called the numina legionum which was a large coin-shaped bust or image of the emperor and his favorites (i.e. Titus) held aloft on a pole.   

Vespasian miraculously healed a blind man and a lame man or a man with a withered hand around the time of Titus' return to Jerusalem to besiege the city and immediately prior to his triumphal entry into Rome as its new emperor literally fulfilling 2 Thessalonians 2:9: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders . . ." Three different Roman historians recorded this miracle wherein Vespasian spit on eyes of the blind man and stepped on the hand of the cripple, healing both men: "With a smiling expression and surrounded by an expectant crowd of bystanders, he [Vespasian] did what was asked.  Instantly the cripple recovered the use of his hand and the light of day dawned again upon his blind companion."3 There were also many miracles recorded around the time Titus returned with the Roman army to besiege Jerusalem as well as afterwards when he returned to Rome to celebrate the triumph with his father.

In the first century, the Caesars were worshipped in Rome's eastern provinces in the imperial cult as a god.  Recall that Titus was given the title "Caesar" in A.D. 69 at Vespasian's coronation.  And when the Romans broke into the Temple, Suetonius says that Titus' army wanted to make him emperor.4 Since the time of Augustus, the Roman emperor was Pontifex Maximus or high priest of Roman religious life. Furthermore, Titus' army was drawn from the eastern provinces where emperor worship was a day-to-day occurrence and officially sanctioned in the Imperial Cult in Rome at the time.  Thus Caesar Titus was his army?s general, perceived emperor and Pontifex Maximus.  And as Pontifex Maximus or high priest in the presence of his army drawn from the east where emperor worship was officially sanctioned, Titus was expected to both direct and receive divine worship while the Romans worshiped the images of himself and Vespasian on the ensigns in the Temple on the 9th of Av of A.D. 70.

Titus Flavius Vespasianus is called the man of lawlessness because he permanently put an end to the practice of the Law by destroying the Jewish Temple in A.D. 70 thereby making it impossible to fully follow the customs of the Law of Moses. 

How could Titus be the Lawless One if he did not die at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70?  Of all the other possible first-century candidates for the Lawless One?Nero, Simon, John, Eleazar ben Jair, and Eleazar ben Simon?none of these people are known to have died at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.  2 Thessalonians 2:8 never says the Lawless One would die at the coming of Christ in A.D. 70.  This verse literally reads, "And then the Lawless One will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will TAKE AWAY with the Breath of His Mouth and DO AWAY WITH by the Splendor of His Coming."  Titus was done away with and taken away in A.D. 70 since he left Jerusalem and returned to Rome immediately after the city fell in A.D. 70.

[marie glen]

One day Jesus said some standing right there, would sed yhe kingdom come in glory. That occurred (imo) on Day of Pentecost 7 weeks after His resurrection.

But that is not the return of Jesus in glory when every eye will see him.

Prophecy tel-escopes.. The Greek word translated ?end? is ?tel?and means literally ?end-aim?. Which is excellent in showing how prophecies scope, from a sooner, smaller in scope fulfillment and at least one more larger in scope or global fulfillment.

The prophecy of the Lord?s advents are the perfect example. It?s obvious His first acvent did not fulfill all the prophecies. (Why woukd some be literal fulfillments - seen - and the rest merely metaphor or symbolic, or only spiritual? Literal life isn?t spiritual?

I don?t inderstand how all this learning of good and evil - mankind?s history - to preterists concludes..

[DavidFord]

"The Ark Was Not Restored"
The 2nd temple was demolished in A.D. 70.
The 'ark' is Yeshua the Meshikha.  All who come to him have life.

Hebrews 11:7 (Berean Study Bible), biblehub
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

1 Peter 3 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit. 19 And he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol, 20 These who from the first were not convinced in the days of Noah when the long-suffering of God commanded that there would be an ark, upon the hope of their repentance, and only eight souls entered it and were kept alive by water. 21 For you also are saved in it by that simile in baptism, not when you wash the body from impurity, but when you confess God with a pure conscience, and by the resurrection of Yeshua, The Messiah, 22 He who has been escorted into Heaven, and he is upon the right hand of God, and the Angels and the Principalities and the Powers are subjected unto him.

Revelation 11:19 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
And the Temple was opened in Heaven, and the Ark of his covenant appeared in the Temple, and there were lightnings, thunders, voices, earthquakes and large hail.

[DavidFord]

One day Jesus said some standing right there, would see the kingdom come in glory. That occurred (imo) on Day of Pentecost 7 weeks after His resurrection.
But that is not the return of Jesus in glory when every eye will see him. ....
I don't understand how all this learning of good and evil - mankind's history - to preterists concludes

History will have Jesus and Jesus's love totally victorious over all of his enemies.

Jesus prophesied to the high priest, [Mark 14:62]"ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."  Did that prophecy come to pass?

Mark 14:61-62 (KJV)  But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?  And Jesus said, I am: and *ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.*

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From Jesus' crucifixion in A.D. 30 until the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in A.D. 70, maybe there was a 40 year transition period before the final, definitive end of the Old Covenant.

How many have had the name 'Yeshua/Joshua/Jesus/Yah-saves/Yah-gives-life the Meshikha/ Mashiach/ Messiah'?

"Christ's generation was the LAST DAYS being fulfilled"
Yes, the last days of that age.

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spyshadowrex 48d
So I've been doing some research about what happened to preteristarchive.com. It was one of the best places for research and also one of the main reasons I knew which resources to use for studies about eschatology. After watching some sermons from Jeff Durbin about the end times, he recommended some books by people such as Kenneth Gentry and John L. Bray. Eventually, I turned into a postmillennial (Still doing research and analyzing the Bible thoroughly). Luckily, I found a way to access Preterist Archive which can be done through web.archive.org:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200228191309/http://www.preteristarchive.com/
Another good resources for getting hard to find preterist information and books is https://americanvision.org/ which is run by Gary DeMar.

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files names of books; PDFs not up
https://web.archive.org/web/20200602031204/http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/

[DavidFord]

How the Greek (2nd Century B.C.) and Roman Armies (1st Century A.D.) with Their Idols of Zeus Literally fulfill All Bible Prophecies Concerning the Abomination that Causes Desolation
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/the-abomination-that-causes-desolation-explained/

Revelation 13: A Preterist Commentary
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-13-a-preterist-commentary/
The fact that an _Imago_ of Titus was present in the Temple at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 is indicated in early Christian literature.  _Scholia on Matthew_, a ninth or tenth century Christian composition, states, "What is the abomination of desolation?  It speaks of the image of Titus who captured the city, and after the destruction of Jerusalem erected his own statue."112  Theophylact of Ochrida (d. 1108) also states that an image of Titus was present in the Temple in A.D. 70 on the ensign called the _numina legionum_ (meaning "gods of the legions"):  "_The abomination of desolation_ is the statue of the captor of the city.  For every idol is called an _abomination_.  And it is one _of desolation_ because after the Romans had captured Jerusalem, they laid waste to it, leaving it desolate, and set up this statue within the sanctuary of the temple."113

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"Who are the ten kings who will make war and be overcome by the Lamb?"

Revelation 17:12-14 Preterist Commentary: Could there also be a Jewish Fulfillment to the Ten Horns?
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-17-a-preterist-commentary/
In the commentary on Daniel 7 I explained that I believe that the ten horns represent the first ten Caesars as well as the ten Zealot leaders of the Jewish Revolt.82  ....
The ten horns are said to be ten kings (Daniel 7:24, Revelation 17:12).  Thus if the ten toes of the statue in Daniel 2 are also the ten horns this iron and clay mixture implies that there should be two sets of ten kings: one Roman represented by the iron part of the ten toes and one Israeli represented by the clay part of the ten toes (Isaiah 64:8, Jeremiah 18:6).  Above I mentioned the fact that I believe the iron or Roman aspect of the ten horns/toes represents the first ten Caesars.  Where there also ten Israelite horns?  I believe that there were.  In Wars of the Jews, Josephus mentions the fact that the Jewish rebels appointed ten generals/governors over Israel in A.D. 66, near the start of the Jewish revolt: ....

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"the mortal wound to the head of one of the rulers, who will be miraculously healed from this.(Rev 13:3)"

"A.D. 70 Doctrine" Commentary on Revelation 13: The Heads of the Beast are the Dynastic Emperors of Rome.
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-13-a-preterist-commentary/
The heads of the sea beast are the heads of the Roman Empire, the Caesars.8 But the heads of the beast are not just the emperors of Rome. The heads of the beast are those emperors who reigned in the two dynasties that ruled Rome in the first century, the Caesar family dynasty and the Flavian family dynasty. The first six heads are the six emperors of the Caesar family dynasty beginning with the very first, Julius Caesar. Thus the first six heads are the first six Caesars: 1) Julius Caesar 2) Augustus Caesar 3) Tiberius Caesar 4) Gaius Caesar 5) Claudius Caesar 6) Nero Caesar. In Revelation 13:3 the beast is said to have a fatally wounded head. This head is the sixth head, Nero Caesar, who committed suicide in A.D. 68. Nero was the last ruler of the Caesar Family Dynasty. And since Nero had not named his successor, there was a succession struggle resulting in civil war following Nero?s suicide. With Nero?s death, the end of the Caesar Family Dynasty, and the resulting civil war which threatened to collapse the empire at the height of its power, the beast seems to have a fatal wound in Revelation 13:3.

Thus with the sixth head severed this beast appears to be dead with Nero. .... The Flavians prevented the empire from collapsing by bringing peace and order back to Rome. Thus under the reign of the Flavians; Vespasian, Titus and Domitian; the beast came back to life.

In the civil war in the year following Nero?s death during which Galba, Otho and Vitellius reigned, these three emperors who were not a part of the Caesar family line are not heads of the beast as the beast was dead at the time as the Caesar family dynasty ended with Nero. The beast then rose from the dead with the rise of the Flavian Dynasty the following year. At this time peace and order was restored to the empire and the beast came back to life. The sixth head of the sea beast then grew two new heads from the neck of the original severed head. These two heads that grew from the neck of the former sixth head are Vespasian and Titus who were both declared Caesar at the same time and shared the same Roman cognomen or formal nickname, Titus Flavius Vespasianus.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"the Beast is given power to a statue and people will acknowledge this by worshiping the Beast and the statue. Rev 13:15"

https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-13-a-preterist-commentary/
Fulfilled Eschatology, A Commentary of Revelation 13:15: Statues in Pagan Temples in Syria, Israel's Northern Neighbor, were Famous for Speaking and Moving just Like the Image of Revelation 13:15.
It is possible that ventriloquism and counterfeit miracles were performed with the ensigns under Titus' direction in the Temple in Jerusalem in A.D. 70 as this appears to have been a common practice in the pagan Temples of Syria, Judaea's northern neighbor and the province in which much of Titus' army was drawn.  The following is written concerning the pagan temples of Syria in the second century A.D.: "*The statues* sweat, and *move, and utter oracles, and a shout* has often been raised when the temple was closed; it has been heard by many [emphasis mine]."115  Regardless of whether or not these signs were faked in the Temple in A.D. 70 as was common in the pagan Temples of Israel's northern neighbor, v. 15 was certainly fulfilled at least in a mundane sense in A.D. 70.
Preterism, A Commentary of Revelation 13:15: The Mouth of the Beast is Titus, the False Prophet of Revelation 19:20.
In Revelation 13:5 the beast is "given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies[.]" As explained in v. 5, the "mouth" of the beast is Titus.  In v. 15 the mouth of the beast, Titus, is said to speak on the Beast Vespasian's behalf: "He [Titus, the mouth of the beast,] was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak . . ."  As stated above, Titus was the "mouth" of the beast in the same way that Aaron was the mouth of Moses according to Exodus 4:16: "[H]e [Aaron] will be as a mouth for you [Moses] and you will be as God to him."  When Aaron acts as a mouth to Moses he acts as though he is a prophet to a god.  This is partially why Titus is also called the false prophet to the beast in Revelation 19:20.

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"When was the mark of the beast placed in people? (Rev 14:9)"

How the Phylacteries Worn on the Forehead and Hand Were Related to the Mark of the Beast.... to Roman Money....
https://www.revelationrevolution.org/phylacteries-worn-forehead-hand-related-mark-beast/

[DavidFord]

"preterism is directly addressed and condemned in Scriptures"
Reference?  When was that scripture(s) written?  (before A.D. 70?)
250 trillion years from now, will that scripture(s) still address and condemn preterism?

"2 Timothy 2:16 - 18 says, 'But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.?'"

When was that scripture written? (before A.D. 70?)
250 trillion years from now, will that scripture still address and condemn preterism?

"that beast did not come"
Was "the great city" destroyed?

Rev 11:8 (King James), https://biblehub.com/revelation/11-8.htm
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 18:21 (King James), https://biblehub.com/revelation/18-21.htm
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

"The entire world did not behold His return"
Jesus prophesied to the high priest, [Mark 14:62]"ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."  Did that prophecy come to pass?

Mark 14:61-62 (KJV)  But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?  And Jesus said, I am: and *ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.*

R.C. Sproul was a preterist.  Do you consider him a heretic?
Hank Hannegraff (now Eastern Orthodox) is a preterist.  Do you consider him a heretic?

"The resurrection was claimed to have occurred when Jesus resurrected c 32 AD"
Do any preterists in the 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries claim "The resurrection... occurred when Jesus resurrected c 32 AD"?

"Revelation was written at the time of Dometian"
Reference?

"Some things were fiulfilled, yet others not"
Which of Daniel's prophecies remain to be fulfilled?

"Preterism... will still be false throughout time"
So 250 trillion years from now, the statement 'The resurrection already happened' will be false?

"opinions of men are irrelevant"
Including opinions of:  Eusebius?  Irenaeus?  the author of 1 Clement?  Polycarp?  yourself?

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"The resurrection claimed by those preterists spoke of had not occurred, nor has it"
What happens to individuals who die these days while being followers of Jesus?
Has Daniel received yet his "allotted inheritance"?

Daniel 12:13 (NIV)
"As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

Daniel 12 (Literal Standard)
https://biblehub.com/lsv/daniel/12.htm
1 "And at that time Michael stands up, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of your people, and there has been a time of distress, such as has not been since there has been a nation until that time, and at that time your people escape, everyone who is found written in the scroll.
2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground awake, some to continuous life, and some to reproaches-- to continuous abhorrence.
3 And those teaching shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars for all time and forever."
4 "And you, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the scroll until the time of the end, many go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied."

5 "And I have looked-- I, Daniel-- and behold, two others are standing, one here at the edge of the flood and one there at the edge of the flood,
6 and he says to the one clothed in linen, who [is] on the waters of the flood, Until when [is] the end of these wonders?
7 And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] on the waters of the flood, and he lifts up his right hand and his left to the heavens, and swears by Him who is living for all time, that,
After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, all these are finished.
8 And I have heard, and I do not understand, and I say,
O my lord, what [is] the latter end of these?
9 And he says, Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things until the time of the end.

10 Purify themselves, indeed, make themselves white, indeed, many are refined: and the wicked have done wickedly, and none of the wicked understand, and those acting wisely understand;
11 and from the time of the turning aside of the continuous [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] one thousand, two hundred, and ninety days.
12 O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly, and comes to the one thousand, three hundred, thirty-five days.
13 And you, go on to the end, then you rest, and stand in your lot at the end of the days."

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Read the scriptures"
When Daniel 2 speaks of a [v. 35]"rock that... became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth," and says [v. 44]"the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever," do you believe that that God-instituted kingdom still remains to be instituted?

Daniel 2 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/2.htm
34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. 36 "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king.  ....
44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.
"The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

When Daniel 7 speaks of someone [v. 13-14]"as a son of man" coming "with the clouds of the heavens.... and to him is given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and languages do serve him, his dominion [is] a dominion age-[en]during, that passeth not away, and his kingdom that which is not destroyed," do you think that that "son of man" has yet to begin reigning?

Daniel 7 (Young's Literal), my "[en]" bracket in 14 and 27
9 'I was seeing till that thrones have been thrown down, and the Ancient of Days is seated, His garment as snow [is] white, and the hair of his head [is] as pure wool, His throne flames of fire, its wheels burning fire.
10 A flood of fire is proceeding and coming forth from before Him, a thousand thousands do serve Him, and a myriad of myriads before Him do rise up, the Judge is seated, and the books have been opened.  ....
13 'I was seeing in the visions of the night, and lo, with the clouds of the heavens as a son of man was [one] coming, and unto the Ancient of Days he hath come, and before Him they have brought him near.
14 And to him is given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and languages do serve him, his dominion [is] a dominion age-[en]during, that passeth not away, and his kingdom that which is not destroyed.  ....
27 and the kingdom, and the dominion, even the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heavens, is given to the people-- the saints of the Most High, His kingdom [is] a kingdom age-[en]during, and all dominions do serve and obey Him.

[DavidFord]

"Has A New Heaven And New Earth Been Regenerated Yet?"
Yes.
Has there arrived a new Jerusalem?
Is it currently the case that "God's dwelling place is now among the people"?

Hebrews 12
https://biblehub.com/hebrews/12.htm
18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire....
22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels
23 in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven.

Revelation 21
https://biblehub.com/niv/revelation/21.htm
1 Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

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"Has A New Heaven And New Earth Been Regenerated Yet?"
On several occasions, God ended 'heaven and earth,' which is a reference to ending the then-current order of things, and replaced it with a new 'heaven and earth' i.e. a new order of things.
Note the "once more" here:

Haggai 2
https://biblehub.com/niv/haggai/2.htm
6 "This is what the Lord Almighty says:
'In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land.
7 I will shake all nations, and what is desired by all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,'
says the Lord Almighty.
8 'The silver is mine and the gold is mine,'
declares the Lord Almighty.
9 'The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,'
says the Lord Almighty.
'And in this place I will grant peace,'
declares the Lord Almighty."

///////////////////////////
Is the prophecy that [13:10]"the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light" yet to be fulfilled?

Is the prophecy that [34:4]"All the stars of heaven will be dissolved. The skies will be rolled up like a scroll, and all their stars will fall" yet to be fulfilled?

Is the prophecy that [24:19]"The earth is utterly broken apart" yet to be fulfilled?

Isaiah 13 (Berean Standard)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/isaiah/13.htm
1 This is the burden against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz received:
....
9 Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming?
cruel, with fury and burning anger?
to make the earth a desolation
and to destroy the sinners within it.
10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations
will not give their light.
The rising sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil
and the wicked for their iniquity.
I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant
and lay low the pride of the ruthless.
....
17 Behold, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who have no regard for silver
and no desire for gold.
18 Their bows will dash young men to pieces;
they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb;
they will not look with pity on the children.
19 And Babylon, the jewel of the kingdoms,
the glory of the pride of the Chaldeans,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isaiah 34 (Berean Standard)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/isaiah/34.htm
1 Come near, O nations, to listen;
pay attention, O peoples.
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it,
the world and all that springs from it.
2 The LORD is angry with all the nations
and furious with all their armies.
He will devote them to destruction;
He will give them over to slaughter.
3 Their slain will be left unburied,
and the stench of their corpses will rise;
the mountains will flow with their blood.

4 All the stars of heaven will be dissolved.
The skies will be rolled up like a scroll,
and all their stars will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like foliage from the fig tree.
5 When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens,
then it will come down upon Edom,
upon the people I have devoted to destruction.

Isaiah 24 (Berean Standard)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/isaiah/24.htm
18 .... For the windows of heaven are open,
and the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is utterly broken apart,
the earth is split open,
the earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth staggers like a drunkard
and sways like a shack.
Earth?s rebellion weighs it down,
and it falls, never to rise again.
21 In that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above
and the kings of the earth below.

22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon
and punished after many days.
23 The moon will be confounded
and the sun will be ashamed;
for the LORD of Hosts will reign
on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,
and before His elders with great glory.

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'Yes, None Of That Has Yet Happened"
So Babylon and Edom are still around, and are still awaiting destruction?

[jabcat]

Hey David.  Scott Maxham brought your name up over at the TM facebook page in a discussion about Aramaic and the NT.  :)   

https://www.facebook.com/groups/tentmaker/posts/10160362643786539/?comment_id=10160372808026539&reply_comment_id=10160372844351539&notif_id=1679003919498344&notif_t=group_comment_mention

[DavidFord]

"who claim they will not be fire for eternity... do not follow the Bible"
In chapter 4, "What did the early Church teach?" re: the afterlife fate of the wicked, this book says Alexandria, Caesarea, Antioch, and Eastern Syria believed in ultimate restoration, while Asia Minor was annihilationist, and Northern Africa adhered to never-ending torture:

_Heaven's Doors: Wider Than You Ever Believed!_ (2017), page 39 by George W. Sarris
https://www.amazon.com/Heavens-Doors-Wider-Than-Believed/dp/0980085322/

"not shown a single truth to your claim about Daniel and Revelation have been fulfilled"
Do you think this happened and is happening?:

Daniel 2 (ESV)
https://biblehub.com/esv/daniel/2.htm
32 The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze,
33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found.
But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
....
43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,
45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold.
A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

[DavidFord]

"When did the 2 witnesses show up? Who were the 2 witnesses?"
I looked at Rev 11 in
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
and I think that "2 witnesses" is better rendered as 'My 2nd witness.'
That 2nd witness was Jesus the son of Ananus.

https://www.revelationrevolution.org/revelation-11-a-preterist-commentary-who-are-the-two-witnesses/#easy-footnote-bottom-9-130
....Jesus the son of Ananus. The following is written about him in _The Wars of the Jews_:

[T]here was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for everyone to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud,
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegroom and the bride, and a voice against this whole people!"

This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say anything for himself, or anything peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was,
"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!"

And when Albinus (for he was then our procurator) asked him who he was, and whence he came, and why he uttered such words; he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him.

Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow,
"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!"

Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force,
"Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!"

And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.^9 [9: Josephus _The Wars of the Jews_ 6.5.3.

///////////////////////////////////////////
"So soon come to pass, what is soon? Is it a day a month, a year, 100 years, 1000 years, or 3000 years?"
Do you think "'soon' = 1k years'" fits/ works/ makes sense in any of the passages below?

τάχει (tachei)  8 Occurrences
https://biblehub.com/greek/tachei_5034.htm
Luke 18:8 N-DNS
NAS: justice for them quickly. However,

Acts 12:7 N-DNS
NAS: Get up quickly. And his chains
INT: Rise up in haste And fell off

Acts 22:18 N-DNS
NAS: out of Jerusalem quickly, because
INT: go away with speed out of Jerusalem

Acts 25:4 N-DNS
NAS: was about to leave shortly.
INT: was about in quickness to set out

Romans 16:20 N-DNS
NAS: The God of peace will soon crush Satan

1 Timothy 3:14 N-DNS
INT: you in short time

Revelation 1:1 N-DNS
NAS: must soon take place;
INT: take place in quickness and he signified [it]

Revelation 22:6 N-DNS
NAS: the things which must soon take place.
INT: come to pass in quickness

ταχὺ (tachy)  12 Occurrences
https://biblehub.com/greek/tachy_5035.htm
Matthew 5:25 Adv
NAS: Make friends quickly with your opponent

Matthew 28:7 Adv
NAS: Go quickly and tell His disciples

Matthew 28:8 Adv
NAS: the tomb quickly with fear
KJV: they departed quickly from

Mark 9:39 Adv
NAS: and be able soon afterward to speak evil
INT: and be able readily to speak evil of me

Luke 15:22 Adv
NAS: to his slaves, 'Quickly bring
INT: servants of him quickly Bring out robe

John 11:29 Adv
NAS: it, she got up quickly and was coming
KJV: [that], she arose quickly, and

Revelation 2:16 Adv
NAS: I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war

Revelation 3:11 Adv
NAS: I am coming quickly; hold fast what
KJV: I come quickly: hold that fast

Revelation 11:14 Adv
NAS: woe is coming quickly.

Revelation 22:7 Adv
INT: Behold I am coming quickly Blessed [is] he who

Revelation 22:12 Adv
NAS: I am coming quickly, and My reward

Revelation 22:20 Adv
NAS: I am coming quickly. Amen.
KJV: Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so,

/////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Soon, the most imprecise word that is used, but come to pass is all future events. Yet the left hates that it means the future, for they always try to claim it already happened"
R.C. Sproul was a preterist.  Do you consider him part of "the left"?

The Preterist Approach to Revelation, by Keith Mathison
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/preterist-approach-revelation-unfolding-biblical-eschatology
When misguided criticisms, such as the one above, are set aside and the case for a basically preterist approach is objectively considered on its own merits, it is seen to be quite strong.  ....

Secondly, when the genre of the book is taken into consideration, it provides strong evidence for a basically preterist approach to the book. The book is a prophecy (Rev. 1:3; Rev. 19:10; Rev. 22:7, 10, 18, 19).  .... Many of the Old Testament prophecies deal with impending judgments upon either Israel or Judah or the nations that oppressed Israel. They also contain glimpses of ultimate future restoration. In short, we take a basically preterist approach to the Old Testament prophetic books, recognizing that they speak largely of impending events, yet also deal at times with the distant future.^16 Given that this is the way in which the Old Testament prophetic books are approached, it seems that our presumption should be in favor of the same basic approach to the prophetic book of Revelation.
....
When the genre, the statements of the book itself, and the larger biblical context are taken into consideration, a basically preterist approach to the book emerges as the most appropriate approach to take.^17

/////////////////////////////////////////////////
What if anything in Daniel 9:24+ do you think happened?

Daniel 9 (Berean Standard)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/daniel/9.htm
24 Seventy weeks^e
[e:  Or Seventy sevens ; also twice in verse 25 and once in verse 26]
are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.^f
[f:  Or _the Holy of Holies_  or _the Most Holy One_ ; literally _the Most Holy_]

25 Know and understand this:
From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah,^g
[g: Or _the Anointed One_; also in verse 26]
the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

26 Then after the sixty-two weeks^h
[h:  Hebrew _Then after sixty-two sevens_] 
the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.
Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed.

27 And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,^i
[i: Or _for one seven_; similarly again in this verse]
but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,^j
[j:  Literally _And on the wing (will come) the abomination that causes desolation_,  or _And on the wing of abominations (will come) one who causes desolation_,] 
until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.^k"
[k:  Literally _until the decreed consummation is poured out upon (him who) is desolate_.]

[DavidFord]

"When did God destroy the forces of evil and usher in his divine kingdom on earth?"
I assume "the forces of evil" includes the devil.
The devil and his angels won't be destroyed.  Instead, they'll be converted, and will once again worship God.
Within the last decade, at-least 2 dark angels have returned to following God.  Eventually, the devil will as well.

"and usher in his divine kingdom on earth"
Remind me, if you would:  what's the basis for thinking that God would "usher in his divine kingdom on earth"?

John 18:36 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/john/18-36.htm
Yeshua said to him,
"My Kingdom is not from this world;
if my Kingdom were of this world,
my servants would be fighting that
I would not have been delivered up to the Judeans,
but now my Kingdom is not from here."

"a post hoc rationalization for the fact that the Parousia failed to materialize as Jesus and Paul and the early Christians expected"
Jesus didn't fit the mold his students were expecting the Messiah to be.

"failed to materialize as Jesus... expected"
What exactly did Jesus expect?

[darryl]

its a difficult one but Jesus HAS returned in the hearts of millions and will return sometime in the future in the clouds.

[darryl]

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

  I believe we have to quit looking at mans witness and Look to GOD for our unmovable  witness 

  mankind makes us doubt  and confuses  us all ,   puts up stumbling blocks along the way of our race set before us  ,  but if your heart becomes pure  innocent , like a little childs , so curious and teachable  and willing to obey , to actually know GODS DESIRES  , just ask Him over and over again to show you the way and truth and life  .

  God promises to  fill us with  more and more  knowledge and love for  Him...... to know God is to love Him ,   the knowledge that puffs up   one against another is forbidden fruit though , we have to be humbled  , God rebukes and scourges every child received  into His kingdom / realm   for the greater good  of all  as ONE and One for all .

amen

[DavidFord]

_Documents of the Primitive Church_ by Charles Cutler Torrey (1941), 309pp., on 241-242
https://archive.org/details/documentsofprimi0000torr/page/240/mode/1up
....the fact is of no little importance that we have here, in plain words, an example of the early Christian assertion that the day of verbal inspiration had returned. The claim that John is an inspired prophet and that his book is holy scripture is as clear and emphatic as any words can make it. This brings the date of the book within narrow limits. The absurdity of supposing that this Aramaic document claiming Jewish canonicity could have been put forth after its doctrine had been officially pronounced damnable heresy is obvious. It certainly was published before the year 80. But this is not all; a date before the year 70 is plainly indicated. If the book had been written between 70 and 80 there certainly would have been in it some allusion to the great catastrophe. Silence in regard to it, in view of the author's intense interest in the holy city, is simply inconceivable.

Moreover, the date cannot have been much _before_ 70. The theology of the book has advanced some distance beyond that of our earliest Christian writings. As Swete remarks, pp. cliv f.,
"No one who comes to the Apocalypse fresh from the study of the Gospels and Epistles can fail to recognize that he has passed into another atmosphere.... The Christ of the Apocalypse is the Christ of the Gospels, but a change has passed over Him which is beyond words."
The Church doctrine has progressed.

It is to be observed how the results thus reached, a date shortly before the year 70, confirms the explicit statement of the author of Rev., that he wrote in the time of the sixth emperor before the seventh had come to the throne; that is, in the year 68.

The fact has already been emphasized, that the terror of the Beast is over all the latter half of the book. The horrible scenes of the year 64, in Rome, are fresh in mind. There is no need to conjecture what the steadfast Christians would be called upon to face, on the return of the Beast. The farther away from Nero's reign the book is dated, the more incomprehensible is the amount of space given to this apprehension.

A most important passage, truly decisive in view of all the other evidence, is the beginning (the first two verses) of chapter 11, where John is commanded to take a reed (Ezek. 40:3 ff.) and measure the temple and the altar; but not to measure the court of the Gentiles, symbolic of the tribulation still to be endured. Jerusalem and the temple are standing, the armies of Titus have not yet entered the city. This was written before the year 70....