we are the lake of fire!?

[claypot]

So what do you all think? In extremely simple terms, are believers the lake of fire? Yes or no and why?

[marie glen]

I think yes, but likely limited now, but much more so during the millennium on earth with survivors of man's last war (2 Peter 3:10,11) and during the judgment age following.. then is a lake of fire when the Father makes all things new (2 Peter 3:11,12).

As I figure, why can't it be both.. a spiritual fire and also the massive energy of the split atom man playing God messes with? makes war with.. There's more than one description like such an event in the bible.

The only reason I mention it, is I no longer believe in an afterlife lake of fire, nor punishment other than the very real self inflicted and fiery punishments of regrets and remorse. Imagine being Hitler or Idi Amin?!

With such a lake of fire at Jesus' return to "set up His Kingdom" - that's how the Contemporary English Version says "Thy Kingdom come". The lake of fire the rebellious and scoffers will ultimately ignite -- the fruit, or maturity of the tares (but for the grace of God there goes any one of us) -- Only because in God's truth proving drama you have to have more than one type of character? And you have to let things run their course? And it seems VERY coincidental to me anymore - how man has certain modern fiery capabilities, and the prophecies of fiery "earthly" events called "the Day of the Lord".

(It's medieval minded men who translated all that into hell.. which should read the grave, because at the 'end' when God makes all things new, it - "death and the grave" are what go to the lake of fire (2 Peter 3:11,12?)

And so.. that's where the spiritual idea of believers being part lake of fire, is actually, I think scripture supported, as it talks about God showing His grace in His chosen (/believers) in the ages to come. (Um, I wonder what verse that is, just read it lately actually.)

His Spirit, I believe shines through us believers/followers, now. Hopefully as love, and a good example of happy life. And we're able to answer questions when someone asks.And maybe plant seeds even when they don't ask.. I truly think it's love that draws, and since God loves all, His love should shine through us. Even more radiantly in "the coming ages"(?)

..sorry to rattle on so.. :laughing7:

[marie glen]

p.s. - Especially as God's Holy Spirit, that day of Pentecost - the Spring Holy Days really were fulfilled perfectly even as to the pattern - On that Pentecost, came down as flames of fire. Everyone gets hyped up on tongues of fire, but I think, mostly, that's just the shape of fire.. And the Spirit was given to each one that day like a flame of fire to each one.

In my reading this morning was these verses which seem to fit in this thread really well! ( :HeartThrob: 'em)

   Jesus, in Luke 11 -  9"So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10"For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11"Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12"Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13"If you then, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

[marie glen]

.."Always be humble and gentle. Patiently put up with each other and love each other. 3Try your best to let God's Spirit keep your hearts united. Do this by living at peace. 4All of you are part of the same body. There is only one Spirit of God, just as you were given one hope when you were chosen to be God's people. 5We have only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism..." Ephesians 4:2-5 great chapter!

[jugghead]

So what do you all think? In extremely simple terms, are believers the lake of fire? Yes or no and why?

Yes, I fully believe so. As an individual we are but a drop in the sea of the body, corporately we are the sea of the body, the Spirit of the body of Christ baptized in love and grace TO BE love and grace to all of mankind, having shed the corrupted (dead skin) to reveal the uncorrupted, hidden from the foundation of the world.

[CHB]

p.s. - Especially as God's Holy Spirit, that day of Pentecost - the Spring Holy Days really were fulfilled perfectly even as to the pattern - On that Pentecost, came down as flames of fire. Everyone gets hyped up on tongues of fire, but I think, mostly, that's just the shape of fire.. And the Spirit was given to each one that day like a flame of fire to each one.

Hi marie,

While reading the above, this came to mind. (Mark 9:49) "For everyone shall be salted with fire".                   

Also, (Matt. 3:11) and (Luke 3:16) "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."

I have wondered if the lake of fire wasn't the Holy Spirit convicting every person and causing them to repent.

CHB

[marie glen]

I think so too! ...but also a lake of fire at Armageddon (man's doing? Reap as sow..) and also when the Father makes all things new. 2Pe.3:10-11;12-13; Is.2

[sheila]

 :2c:the LOF ......is.....the second death.....and you must be twice dead to partake of it.Allmen are appointed to die ONCE...then

   the judgement..where all men learn righteousness...we shall behold the works done in the flesh of man by the wicked one[satan andhis]

   and that done of God , Christ andHoly spirit in man"s flesh.......it shall all be displayed openly......the TOKOGAE= both the positive

and negative works done in man's weak,susceptable,corruptible flesh....which resulted in death reigning over all men..and all men

being bound up in disobedience...resulting in all men appointed to die once...the returning of man's body to thedust from which it came..

man's spirit being drawn up to God/Christ...and regenerated. Made perfect raised up in incorruption/power and given perfect

understaning....justified before God..by Christ's covering. The healing of all men and their total reconciliation with God is facilatated

with HIM teaching us,and revealing unto us the mysteries of the knowledge of good and evil..Him declaring unto us'hidden'things...

things we cannot know by judging by the appearance of our eyes...due to them being of the invisible creation.

   At present we can recognize the tree by it's fruit displayed in men,strife,murder hatred,theivery,lies..love,goodness,mercy....

an unlawful mixing...when I go to do good..evil is present...that which I donot wish to do,Ido.  I agreein spirit[inner man]with that

whichisgood....who shall save me from 'THIS"[physical body of death/weakness corruption]

  the second resurrection happens simulitaneously with the first...at the death of man's flesh..Jesus call's the mans name and his spirit

rises and is drawn up...at the same time any demonic spirits are cast out/or off of that man...and must find another body of dust

whether it be of man or animal. In the very end...these wicked contrast tare spirits are destroyed in the LOF...manis Not nor has Godever

said any man;s spirit cast into the LOF...THAT IS PREPARED FOR SATAN AND HIS DEMONIC SPIRITS.......

  THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS PREPARED FOR ALL MEN.

     Being baptized of Holy spirit and the tongues of fire ...truth...the spirit of truth will consume all the power of the adversary..will

declare God's  eternal,irrevocable judgement on satan and the demons[did you notknow we would judge angels/spirits...we pronounce

God's eternal,irrevocable judgement on satan and his messengers. When men's spirit rise he see's and hears the invisible wicked spirits

that operate on and in men...they learn to make right judgements..see things they did not see,hear things they did not hear.


   Yes, Iam baptized with Holy spirit and the fiery tongue judgement of God that the LOF is prepared and ready to consume satan

and his messengers. cloven= Kingdom of heaven prepared for all men../LOF prepared forsatan and his messengers............

divide rightly..itis a two-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth...and we must apply each edge to whom it belongs.

[claypot]

Good stuff.

It is always amazing and fulfilling to me when I engage someone in things eternal and I can visibly see the walls crumbling around their hearts and minds.

I see this as if a fire burning and consuming or causing death to what can die. I know this is super fulfilling to all my friends on this forum. What better picture of us rising to our full potential and being the source of a burning fire that will cosume all evil until even death itself is obliterated.

When I think of believers all together doing this I see a lake of fire, of super powered believers, mingling with unbelievers who are given over to the power of our Father for the perfecting of their very beings. A picture of unbelievers being cast into a lake of fire.

Way too exciting!

[sheila]

What angels did you think we would judge?surely not the faithful  Holy ones of the heavenly hosts. Discernment of spirits..begins..with

the confession that Jesus Christ come in the flesh...and we very well know that satan keeps on transforming himself into an angel of light,

causing much confusion unto the people. Because the wicked encompasseth the righteous..right judgement goeth not forth.

  I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome  all the

power of the enemy;NOTHING WILL HARM YOU[specially not the second death] However do not rejoice that the spirits submit

to you,but REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN.


BLESSED ARE THE EYES THAT SEE WHAT YOU SEE. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see,but did

not see it,and to hear what you hear,but did not hear it. :2c:

[claypot]

Any angel or human that needs a good cleansing burning God will 'judge' via believers. I see one of our greatest rewards is to be a means (in our Father' hands) to enlighten all.

[CHB]

Good stuff.

It is always amazing and fulfilling to me when I engage someone in things eternal and I can visibly see the walls crumbling around their hearts and minds.

I see this as if a fire burning and consuming or causing death to what can die. I know this is super fulfilling to all my friends on this forum. What better picture of us rising to our full potential and being the source of a burning fire that will cosume all evil until even death itself is obliterated.

When I think of believers all together doing this I see a lake of fire, of super powered believers, mingling with unbelievers who are given over to the power of our Father for the perfecting of their very beings. A picture of unbelievers being cast into a lake of fire.

Way too exciting!

Sounds good to me!!!

CHB

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: I think we can easily get into extremes.. the verse says He will use the chosen to demonstrate His grace.. He has also the universe and the testimony of all of history..

It's "the HS who will convince the world of sin".. It's always such a temptation to run a bit with God's Word.. perhaps we all do it..

Until our resurrection - as Jesus said - at the last day.. I've never read that as upon each person's last day.. and -- "the rest of the dead rise not until after the thousand years" - when everything is metaphor, not representing literal, we only end up with more confusion (the forehead/psyche called mystery  babble? Every one's opinions of what the word says, instead of the genuine shine and glimmer of the sWord of Truth. Often I'd like to only discuss using only quotes from His Word.. working on that, lol. Direct, unchanged, quotes.)

I see a beautiful organization of God that spans the ages and has it's fulfillment in the Lord's long second advent (of 3 peaks - 1.Jesus' return, 2.'Day of Judgment/Atonement, 3.the all in all event of making ALL things new.

[Represented by Trumpets, 'Day' of Atonement, Tabernacles?]

I think it's great news which Isaiah 2 says about the Day of the LORD, that only He, in that day will be exalted, vs. 17 - And - Vs. 22, "Put no more trust in man, who has only the breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" (I also think this verse means what it says, man only has breath in his nostrils.. until death, when there is no breath (pneuma) tho God possesses the blueprint of the dna of ALL - then "at resurrection is when believers put on immortality".

So I guess i only agree up to a point.. that He will use those given faith to believe during this life, to demonstrate His grace.. but not entirely. All things glorifying Him, but how gracious He is to let us serve in the coming ages (Paul mentioned, who was "chosen to see God's will"/plan/works/blueprint/working out..  :dsunny: :Peace2:

And I totally can't understand how LOF mentioned where they are - at Jesus' return; at the final defeat of the adversary; and when Father makes ALL things new and becomes 100% all in all, do not suggest to others literal fiery events!

To go along "with" the truth that His essence is as a consuming purifying fire.. so praise also purifies.. and thanksgiving.. But are those a LOF.. in a sense. And is not the entire. He alone possesses the entire Spirit of Himself. (Surely?)
:Peace2:

[rosered]

I agree it is all for GODS GLORY and BY HIM &  for Him alone  !  sister Marie!!
Just being called and chosen  OUT OF THE WORLD ,  to be a part of the LIVING BODY of Christ   IS WORTHY OF GREAT PRAISE and thanksgiving .....

I am very hung up  upon   us  BE ALLOWED too and  just getting to be partakers of HIS marvelous LIGHT

I see the 7 churches are the  race Paul speaks of  each [Lamp  with fire and Light ] has its chastisements and   reward  of  greater light   , I see the gaining of the  7 lamps of  fire [eyes  of the  Spirits ] or knowledge  of GOD  as the  fulfilling  in CHRIST  anointing   to a greater  understanding  to the  end  .
Jesus  is the reward   , His  loving  Father   and rewards are with Him . 

:dsunny:     :HeartThrob:   

[marie glen]

Amen, Rose :HeartThrob:

I get caught up sometimes in how there's so many modern miracles and wonders, to wow us, of a technological (and warfare) scale. (Including fiery capability.) Now they even have the ability to make holograms. How are believers to not be deceived? By knowing His Word - especially the NT, of course. (There's a strong trend now to get caught up in the spirit of metaphor. But if the primary thing of the scriptures is metaphor, that again is confusion, and a thing of the flesh. Every person's ideas ABOUT the Word trumping the Word itself! Crazy times. --- Even Revelation, tho told using symbols,etc, is still literal! ....So much of prophecy, not understood, but gives such clear signs to clearly follow! In days some folks, one day, will be in. But as we all know, with UR and with Truth, it's like whistling in howling winds.. Or having laryngitis.. :doh: :laughing7:

....so the idea of LOF being earthly literal (not afterlife or 100% spiritual or metaphor) is hard to imagine..
so 'hell' hangs in there as a sort of shadow, even to those who don't believe in hell..
:HeartThrob: :girlheart: ty sister..

[rosered]

Amen, Rose :HeartThrob:

I get caught up sometimes in how there's so many modern miracles and wonders, to wow us, of a technological (and warfare) scale. (Including fiery capability.) Now they even have the ability to make holograms. How are believers to not be deceived? By knowing His Word - especially the NT, of course. (There's a strong trend now to get caught up in the spirit of metaphor. But if the primary thing of the scriptures is metaphor, that again is confusion, and a thing of the flesh. Every person's ideas ABOUT the Word trumping the Word itself! Crazy times. --- Even Revelation, tho told using symbols,etc, is still literal! ....So much of prophecy, not understood, but gives such clear signs to clearly follow! In days some folks, one day, will be in. But as we all know, with UR and with Truth, it's like whistling in howling winds.. Or having laryngitis.. :doh: :laughing7:

....so the idea of LOF being earthly literal (not afterlife or 100% spiritual or metaphor) is hard to imagine..
so 'hell' hangs in there as a sort of shadow, even to those who don't believe in hell..
:HeartThrob: :girlheart: ty sister..

    That  is why we thank God for the  Holy Spirit of truth to teach us    and guide  us into all truth   and be corrected by that   same  fire   of Gods nature  making  His holy ones    and get to be partakers with Him :dsunny:   :HeartThrob:   

[marie glen]

Amen, Rose :HeartThrob:

I get caught up sometimes in how there's so many modern miracles and wonders, to wow us, of a technological (and warfare) scale. (Including fiery capability.) Now they even have the ability to make holograms. How are believers to not be deceived? By knowing His Word - especially the NT, of course. (There's a strong trend now to get caught up in the spirit of metaphor. But if the primary thing of the scriptures is metaphor, that again is confusion, and a thing of the flesh. Every person's ideas ABOUT the Word trumping the Word itself! Crazy times. --- Even Revelation, tho told using symbols,etc, is still literal! ....So much of prophecy, not understood, but gives such clear signs to clearly follow! In days some folks, one day, will be in. But as we all know, with UR and with Truth, it's like whistling in howling winds.. Or having laryngitis.. :doh: :laughing7:

....so the idea of LOF being earthly literal (not afterlife or 100% spiritual or metaphor) is hard to imagine..
so 'hell' hangs in there as a sort of shadow, even to those who don't believe in hell..
:HeartThrob: :girlheart: ty sister..

    That  is why we thank God for the  Holy Spirit of truth to teach us    and guide  us into all truth   and be corrected by that   same  fire   of Gods nature  making  His holy ones    and get to be partakers with Him :dsunny:   :HeartThrob:

testing.. testing.. lol

[marie glen]

In Luke 17:29, the Lord says, "as it was in the days of Noah.. and in the day Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed all."

The word "rained" is #G1026 - "moisen, rain, send rain"

verse - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/17-29.htm

rain - https://biblehub.com/greek/1026.htm

moisten, wet, rain, water...

I think it is true that,

"Our God is a consuming fire!" Purity consumes impurity.. Life consumes death.. Light, darkness.. Good, evil

And ( & + )

Peter wrote - "the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. (vs.11) Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, (rev.7:9?) (12)looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! (13) But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens, and, a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." --- And love will rule! --  :banana: :dsunny: 2 Peter 3:10-11 & 12-13

..."The bear will graze with the cow, and the lion will eat straw like the ox."

[marie glen]

The thing I'm focusing on --  no after life burning except burning regret/repentance upon judgment 'day'..  And the burning of the old heavens and earth, when all is subjected.. That medieval minded translators turned earthly, fiery judgments (results, culmination, consequences) into the heathen world ideas of after life punishments for bad citizens.. But such a thing never entered His mind, Yhwh said when Israel fell into the practice of the Canaanite nations around her, and sacrificed children and babies live in fire to Baal-Molech. ...not knowing they would reap what they sowed, earthly, fiery consequences..
  :2c:
The lake of fire is vast.. kind of like the bottomless pit (of potential) imperfection, or that is "missing the mark" is? And surely as (genuine) born of the Spirit children of God (of Yhwh, Father, Love) we are part of that consuming / purifying fire..
      :banana: :dsunny:

p.s. ..but compared to love is a 'pond'?

[marie glen]

This is kind of funny..

I think of part of the lake of fire (prophesied) as being the results and consequences of mankind's doing, the culmination of mankind's doings, ways and wars.. fiery results (besides our Father's essence as a consuming, purifying  fire.. thus His children share that - evidenced by the tongues / flames of fire on that day of Pentecost of Acts 2)

But considering the prophesied lof as results and culmination of man's ages, I came across this 'trivia' - heard it on a commercial so googled the idea and this is what came up -

Google search Quote -

Halitosis (bad breath) is mostly caused by sulphur-producing bacteria that normally live on the surface of the tongue and in the throat. Sometimes, these bacteria start to break down proteins at a very high rate and odorous volatile sulphur compounds (VSC) are released from the back of the tongue and throat.

:laughing7: sulphur from the human tongue.. how fitting!

[UniversalSceptic]

Dear Claypot: When you get an opportunity and some time, explore what theion is in koine and in what theion is rooted.  Our God is consuming fire, and our God is the Lake of Fire & Divinity.

Brimstone= theion

Theion rooted in Theos

The Consuming Fire -George MacDonald-

http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/2/

If God is the Lake of Fire and Divinity, then what does it mean when they talk about those whose names are not written in the book of life being thrown into the Lake of Fire.

[marie glen]

Dear Claypot: When you get an opportunity and some time, explore what theion is in koine and in what theion is rooted.  Our God is consuming fire, and our God is the Lake of Fire & Divinity.

Brimstone= theion

Theion rooted in Theos

The Consuming Fire -George MacDonald-

http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/2/

If God is the Lake of Fire and Divinity, then what does it mean when they talk about those whose names are not written in the book of life being thrown into the Lake of Fire.

I think 'Day' of Judgment is an age and anyone who's name is not written/enrolled in the book by end of that AGE would go to lake of fire.. be caught up in the "making of ALL things new" (Rev.21:1-5, when "the elements melt in a furious heat") which is also the "all in all" event of 1 Corinthians 15:27-28(22-28!)

But Jesus said He "will draw all to Himself".. (Jn.12:32) And Psalm 22:27 says "All the ends of Earth.. will turn to the LORD and all the families of the nations will worship/rejoice before Him".

The "dead/asleep in Christ and the living believers rise at Jesus' return" (2nd half of 1 Thessalonians 4) and "the rest of the dead rise not, until after the thousand years" Rev.20.

2 Peter 2:9 - "God knows how to preserve the unjust for correction on 'day' of judgment." - Translated "for punishment" which is VERY misleading. The greek word = "primary meaning - to prune, curtail, correct".

But translators LOVE to run with verses and words. I thank the Lord for good bible language apps! Like biblehub dot com.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/2-9.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/2849.htm (especially the Strong's)
  :gsmile: