R.H. Charles: bring eschatology into harmony w/ Xtian theology of God

[sheila]

TY GIL.... :girlheart:

[rosered]

 
  Lovely !      no law against LOVE .......
But the law is set  in such a high standard  , if you break just one law you have broken   them all  !!!!!
making everyone   

  I see this as  no one keeps  the whole law  but Jesus , we HAVE to be hid in Christ to  remain   holy /pure /clean .


James 2 8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.



10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


  I believe in order for the truth to set you FREE  , you have to  FORGIVE    and LOVE  at all times  .

  truly everyone is   saved by Gods grace though Jesus Christ .

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :girlheart: Amen Rose! And we can only do that by abiding in Him, He's the vine, we the branches.

Because "God is love".. And so, like Sheila said,  no boasting. For no one can ever boast, no matter how much we will all fulfill all the law, by His perfect love, no one can ever boast.. for truth is, it is His love.. is Him.. The perfect way, to make all perfect.. :cloud9: :banana:

:Chinscratch: So not only do we have one rule - "love" but we have at foundation, one 'activity' to abide in Him.. to remain under the shadow and wing of the Almighty.  :cloud9: "truth sets free" ...His "yoke is easy, His burden is light"... {So why do we struggle? When what we need to do is to yield and submit, giving ourselves wholly to Him. And it's my personal conviction, this is what He most meant by "come eat and drink" - our daily 'bread' and the new wine of God's Spirit - "in remembrance of Me".. In stressful or hard times, yielding all the more that the refiner's  fire can more quickly do His work in us.. He who is faithful to complete the work, in us, He has begun.

[marie glen]

posted by David,
Matthew 25:31-46 is the passage many turn to for the doctrine of 'hell' or 'eternal torment', but sadly people rarely read the specific context of what is going on in Matthew 25:31-46? We find the use of the words follow a specific judgement, at a specific future time, involving a specific group.

I won't post all the verses here but below is a summary of Matthew 25:31-46, highlighting some key points that are often overlooked.

(1)The target audience is NATIONS
(2)They are GATHERED (not resurrected from the dead as in Revelation 20:12) so are living at the time.
(3)TWO ‘GROUPS’ are formed in the judgement - Sheep (Right hand) / Goats (Left hand).
(4)REASON For Judgement – The King’s brethren Hungered, was Thirsty, a Stranger, Naked, Infirm or in Jail. Which of the nations responded to these circumstances? (So it's a humanitarian judgement)
(5)RESULT of the Judgement - The Sheep (nations) responded to the above circumstances, so WILL ENJOY AGE-ABIDING/DURING LIFE in the allotment of the kingdom (notice NOT rule and reign in it), but the Goat (nations) did not respond to the above circumstances, so will go away to AGE-ABIDING/DURING CORRECTION/PUNISHMENT/CHASTENING.
(BOTH the Sheep and the Goat nations actually acknowledge Jesus as Lord in the judgement).

"Bringing eschatology into harmony with Christian theology of God" - did/has occurred. [ :eek: ]  How nice (blessed!) to know otherwise! Than the image and end result ET portrays and presents!

No matter how low we go (humanity/collectively, and even individually!) He wins in the 'end'. He always wins!

Mankind could repent, change their mind and the world be redeemed before mankind brings their world to ruin (unless the world turns, it cannot thrive and endure). And worse case scenario, the world doesn't repent and turn to and fully submit to the Lord, and they continue on upon the wrong "way", the road which leads to death and destruction --- He still wins. :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:

Because  :iagree: "on (the) Judgment 'Day' all - the sheep and the goats - will acknowledge Him as Lord".

"Every tongue will wholeheartedly -according to the Greek - confess He is Lord" (Phil.2:11) ..."All the ends of Earth shall remember and turn to the LORD, and all families of the nation's will worship before Him." ....in what other age could this occur? When all join in praising Him.. All praising Him, would surely become the state of God being "all in all" (Rev.21:1-5?)

...Bringing Christian theology into harmony with the scripture.. Christian theology into harmony with the (true) eschatology of God's Word...? "If I be lifted up from the Earth (signifying what death He would experience) I will draw all to Me." John 12:32. [ET locks that verse in a box called no hope after this brief life. But God's Word cannot be kept in a box!]

[rosered]

:thumbsup: :girlheart: Amen Rose! And we can only do that by abiding in Him, He's the vine, we the branches.

Because "God is love".. And so, like Sheila said,  no boasting. For no one can ever boast, no matter how much we will all fulfill all the law, by His perfect love, no one can ever boast.. for truth is, it is His love.. is Him.. The perfect way, to make all perfect.. :cloud9: :banana:

:Chinscratch: So not only do we have one rule - "love" but we have at foundation, one 'activity' to abide in Him.. to remain under the shadow and wing of the Almighty.  :cloud9: "truth sets free" ...His "yoke is easy, His burden is light"... {So why do we struggle? When what we need to do is to yield and submit, giving ourselves wholly to Him. And it's my personal conviction, this is what He most meant by "come eat and drink" - our daily 'bread' and the new wine of God's Spirit - "in remembrance of Me".. In stressful or hard times, yielding all the more that the refiner's  fire can more quickly do His work in us.. He who is faithful to complete the work, in us, He has begun.

   Amen sister Marie !       I see the law of life and death as the good and evil   that the world of darkness   ,    that produces good fruit 

choose the good   ,     but the tree of Life  is the  perfect law of liberty    , the Light and life 

   If the law is the mirror in which we look though  that mirror darkly   1 Cor 13 but not to remain in the darkness

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.


12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

I feel as if   we  are becoming the Lights unto the world  and    the  WORD / law of Love Life and liberty    shines forth   as the SON/ SUN we can and will SEE JESUS  AS HE IS  SO IN THIS WORLD ...

  light of men  Light is defined as life, as seen in John 1:4, "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men". ... In John, "darkness is present in the absence of light; the absence of eternal life," and darkness referring to death, spiritually. Those who walk in darkness do not have eternal life because they are unknown to God.   we are to be a LIGHT  and share the knowledge of GOD     , HIS WORD IS life and beautiful   truth   as HIS LIFE in us  !!!!!!!! 



The Beginning
...3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it....

John 3:19
And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.

John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

John 8:12
Once again, Jesus spoke to the people and said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life."

John 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies.

John 12:46
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands--this is the Word of life.

1 John 1:2
And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

1 John 5:11
And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.


loving those whom love us is easy , it is loving   those whom  despise  us  that proves the test as true  and found in Him !!  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:             

[marie glen]

Amen! I was reading some interesting commentary yesterday about the seven lampstands in Rev 1, how the lampstands (churches/us) are not the light, but are to shine the light.. provided by the oil... All very obvious but I'd never thought it through. And Jesus is in the midst of the lampstands..

Lamps shining His light.. which the greatest (fruit) of, is love..
:gsmile: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

Also.. love realizes imperfection/missing the mark (opposite of He Who "is Perfect") (which actually is a potential bottomless pit?) no matter how happy or comfortable one is, an imperfect world or reality can never be good enough! Not as long as any one person suffers!!
Or is not happy, whole, and blessed..

[rosered]

Amen! I was reading some interesting commentary yesterday about the seven lampstands in Rev 1, how the lampstands (churches/us) are not the light, but are to shine the light.. provided by the oil... All very obvious but I'd never thought it through. And Jesus is in the midst of the lampstands..

Lamps shining His light.. which the greatest (fruit) of, is love..
:gsmile: :HeartThrob:

  Amen sis and they are in JESUS CHRIST right hand of power   , may the light shine brighter as we see the DAY  approaching   

The Light  and fire and breath of  His coming , destroying the evil  ,  and glad for that !!!!!!!!!   2 Thess 2   8

The Man of Lawlessness
...7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.


9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder,...     

for me the  term ,   that old beast and whore   she rides will destroy her  ,  of self righteous pride of life , he has working in Him because the Father put it in his heart to destroy her  , eat her flesh and  burn her with fire ,   than Jesus will show HIM the error of his doings    by the WORD  spoken  in power and all authority   , taking captivity captive  !

None especially Jesus wants us to remain captive to the evil one  ruling our hearts forever  , prayers  for all  to keep us from the  evil one , that broad path of destruction .......
  I am glad when He takes the evil one   out  of  the way , that stumbling block  of lawlessness    , the beast , the beast along with mankind created on the 6 day   for Gods glory ... even the evil one was made for Gods glory in the end if all things  , as we wait o the LORD to do His mighty thing .

Making the WORD OF GOD so true and  full of righteous  TRUTH , making believers out  of us all ........

for me to understand it , it must be a simple truth  , that a child of the Lords own spirit  can understand it .
Maybe more to it than I understand  at this time , but it keeps   the faith and hope and love alive and remains  so far , maybe even a better resurrection[ coming up out of death to a new Life  in Christ ]  than when I first believed  .

We testify to what we believe as truth and Light and Life  , that may encourage others and  stumble others , but it is not my own intentions and motives of the heart to do so .
Never has there been a place to speak so freely  of our faith  without being   cast out  as the Tentmaker forum .
I do thank God we are able to share  what is in our hearts so freely without  condemnation . 

  Most would  already  dismiss every sign of   the salvation of all   as a lying spirit and false prophecy  , I just think they do not know the power of God yet   and wait  for Him  in   the  fulfilling of everything   Held in Himself when HE rises up  totally   to   glorify    HIMSELF,  it is praised to the highest degree possible   in His new creation !!!

For me ,,,it  is exciting  and so  full of life and living things  to ponder upon !!!!!! 

[guest6088]

"Why did god kill himself?"  The prophet Jesus who is God allowed humans to kill his physical body (they couldn't injure his spirit).  Jesus lived a totally perfect life-- never sinning once-- and brought into his physical body all of humanity's sins and sicknesses.  When the earth-suit of Jesus died, the spirit of Jesus resurrected himself in a brand new body.  The poison of humanity's sins and sickness had been successfully captured and discarded, undoing what occurred in the Garden of Eden with Adam's failure.

So like a sponge?

Eh, I'd say like a sterile tube, which captures bacteria for disposal.

_Unlocking the Mystery of Divine Healing_ by Tony Myers, 66, 67
https://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Mystery-Divine-Healing-Myers/dp/1912045575/
The cross wasn't God pouring out His wrath onto Jesus, as is [commonly] taught; it was Jesus accepting sin into His body, thereby trapping sin.  Then, when He gave His life, Jesus took sin out of this world.  ....Christ had to be perfect and was perfect.  There was no contamination within Christ's body, therefore he alone could contain the sin of Adam and Israel.

I edited a sentence to instead read:  When the earth-suit of Jesus died, the spirit of Jesus resurrected himself in a radically-changed, glorified body.

Lol@sterile tube.

Enjoyed reading this David, great way of putting it and looks like an interesting book.

[DavidFord]

"God gave Adam (Man) power, and authority, and dominion in the earth"
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them [Adam and Eve], and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

"What Adam surrendered to satan in rebellion, Yeshua (Jesus) took back in obedience"
Romans 5 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5&version=NKJV
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense.  *For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.*  16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned.  For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but *the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.* 17 *For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)*  18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so *through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.*  19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also *by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.*

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so *in Christ all shall be made alive.*
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being."  The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

"He said that all of us, who believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that he is Lord"
Romans 10:8-10   8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):  9 that *if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus* and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.  10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and *no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.*
Philippians 2:9-11  9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that *every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,* to the glory of God the Father.

"are made a new creation, sons and daughters of God and, we are one with him, as he is one with the Father"
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, *if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;*
old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new.
1 Cor 15:28 Now when *all things are made subject to Him,* then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Eph 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might *gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.*
Romans 11:36 For of Him and through Him and *to Him are all things,* to whom be glory forever. Amen.

[marie glen]

Amen Rose! I love how slight differences of perception are not a big deal here at Tentmakers forum.. which keeps that spirit of freedom and also of love alive..

Especially in these days which to me, seem to be getting more and more divisive - in the world that is. Silly humans.. always falling into the same traps. Easily led, so it seems like getting rid of the voice that contradicts the world's agenda will not be that hard one day to accomplish! But no matter.. as you've said, the beast - it's ten divisions/kings/toes (of Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue) will (finally) consume Babylon the great empire of man gone global and harlot/Greek-"pornos/to sell"..

And the mountain made without hands will strike the toes (of the statue of man's empires) and that mountain will fill the Earth, and knowledge of the LORD will cover the Earth like water covers the seas.. :banana: :dsunny: :HeartThrob: i.e. also no more beast and beast like in the heart of man, or in any, once all is said and done.. which includes no more trying to rule others.. domination so dominant in the affairs and history of mankind..

[rosered]

Amen Rose! I love how slight differences of perception are not a big deal here at Tentmakers forum.. which keeps that spirit of freedom and also of love alive..

Especially in these days which to me, seem to be getting more and more divisive - in the world that is. Silly humans.. always falling into the same traps. Easily led, so it seems like getting rid of the voice that contradicts the world's agenda will not be that hard one day to accomplish! But no matter.. as you've said, the beast - it's ten divisions/kings/toes (of Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue) will (finally) consume Babylon the great empire of man gone global and harlot/Greek-"pornos/to sell"..

And the mountain made without hands will strike the toes (of the statue of man's empires) and that mountain will fill the Earth, and knowledge of the LORD will cover the Earth like water covers the seas.. :banana: :dsunny: :HeartThrob: i.e. also no more beast and beast like in the heart of man, or in any, once all is said and done.. which includes no more trying to rule others.. domination so dominant in the affairs and history of mankind..

  Blessings sis Marie  :dsunny:   YES!! amen !   

  I also love the scriptures that speaks   the truth in Love .  :HeartThrob:


1 John 4   and 5    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4&version=YLT


About the spirits  in the world and   being careful how we hear .

I very much desire the salvation of all   to be the truth   in Love .

[marie glen]

I copy / pasted these verses from Romans 5 from David's post.

Romans 5

12 Therefore, JUST AS through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all..

19 For as by one man's disobedience (the?) many were made sinners, so also, by one Man's obedience (the?) many will be made righteous.

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, MUCH MORE the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.  19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

And THIS (UR?) gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole earth, for a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14

[rosered]

I copy / pasted these verses from Romans 5 from David's post.

Romans 5

12 Therefore, JUST AS through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all..

19 For as by one man's disobedience (the?) many were made sinners, so also, by one Man's obedience (the?) many will be made righteous.

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, MUCH MORE the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.  19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

And THIS (UR?) gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole earth, for a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14

  Thanks Marie , Sheila    and David   for these  posts ......

  You made me think of many things I have considered  now , that never entered my mind before   that past few years of all our brothers and sisters sharing the gospel , good news  on the Tentmaker site .

  How  the revealing of  Jesus Christ   would come to those as  rewards  or more of Him being  seen /exposed and known , not only by the great cloud of witnesses of the old testament   , but  the new  testament as well .


   3 things  ,  first  was the spirit of prophecy  being the testimony of Jesus  Christ   and how  it is being fulfilled when reading Daniel   12
  (ESV)
12 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.
But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."


  Second .I have come to believe it is   the bema seat of Christ  in the here and now  and Him judging/dividing  by the SWORD /Word , the sheep from the goats   and its   rewards   or rejection  being this  , those that abide in the vine   remain  on the narrow path that leads to LIFE in Christ and those that wander  onto the broad path that leads to destruction......

Greek, like English, uses the word "judge" in two senses. One sense in condemnation,the expression of very strong disapproval   , while the other sense is the giving out of rewards. The Bible says unbelievers will be judged in the first sense - condemnation,    contempt  of court    or   the offense of being disobedient to or disrespectful toward a court of law and its officers in the form of behavior that opposes or defies the authority, justice and dignity of the court.   while believers will be judged in the other sense - rewards.  more and more truth setting them free  by the law of Liberty  and Love being the  bond of perfection   and end result .

. Paul wrote.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what we have done whether good or bad (2 Corinthians 5:10).

All believers will stand before God and be individually judged.

Why do you pass judgment on your brother or sister? Or you, why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God (Romans 14:10).

What will happen at this judgment seat?   I do see the  division  Jesus said His baptism  of death , the CROSS  would bring [Luke 12 ;46-56  ]    though HE IS judging no man  , He is judging the works  of faith in obedience  to   Himself   as faithful servants of all  or the lack of  , or  beating the  other servants  , that Paul speaks of   testing  these works
  by fire 1 Corinthians 3:15

and that you, O Lord, are loving. Surely You will reward each person according to what He has done (Psalm 62:12).

Jesus said.

For the Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will reward each person according to what He has done (Matthew 16:27).

Paul wrote.

Knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free (Ephesians 6:8).

   Thirdly  I have considered    this   mortal life as   [as sin dwelling  within , dust of the earth old adam   that has been judged already to death and decay  ]  that no man has power over , I believe this is why Jesus said I judge no man  and Why Paul said it is no longer I that sins but the sin  that is indwelling in me, the body of death  [Romans 7 ] but thankful for the mind of Christ , being the Holy Spirit that anoites  and appoints Gods desire to  be done  in obedience . Just as JESUS always done and proved over and over again to heal and raise the dead  to life and  give power to those whom were overcome  with darkness  and this world .

This is why Jesus told them  whom judged the flesh  , they did not know  where He come from and was going , because it was always by the HOLY SPIRIT being poured out on all flesh  , as the WORD would come and fulfill the new testament prophecy  as the FATHER   SPOKE FROM THE BEGINNING as well as the old testament witness the Father testifying of the Son  COMING IN  GLORY

  John 8
14Jesus replied, "Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone when I judge; I am with the Father, who sent Me....

Peter is a great example of   of being turned around and healed  , once he was converted from the  old path  of destruction, satan sifting him like wheat  , this was his humbling and failures and denying JESUS  in his  works   3 times before the cock crowed  , but he was instructed to feed the lambs and sheep   after and we have his writings  to this day .
He said   This and what a blessing  for me to grasp it .

  It would be better if God would will it  that you suffer for doing good  like Jesus   than doing evil  , but Peter learned  though his suffering   for doing both   good and evil 
So Gods word is truth   ,  always  and applies to every last one of our lives   whom are learning  JESUS LIFE in righteousness

  1 Peter 3

Suffering for Righteousness
...16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you will be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ.

17For it is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit,...


Every last one of us have seen corruption , but the LORD JESUS CHRIST SAW NO CORRUPTION  , HE NEVER FAILED ONCE , but was the perfect sacrifice for all time  and ages   supplied by the  FATHER   because God so loved the world He gave His only begotten  / one of a kind Son  that whom so ever  would believe in Him  would not perish but inherit eternal Life .

  For me it is ,   each in their own order  as it is GOD WHOM saves and is glorified because of it   the the Body of Life    found in the LORD JESUS CHRIST , reconciling the world   though Him  , till God be all in all  .... 

[sheila]

..the Pharisses,sadducees said no prophet come out of Galilee[they forgot Jonah/Dove]thus they didn't know where the Christ come from..

though they received the sign of Jonah[dove]

Isaaih9;1....but in the future he will honour Galilee of the gentiles...by the way of the sea..along the Jordan.....

But after  I have risen....He said..I go ahead of you to Galilee.

when we give account of every word out of our mouth...it is best to say Romans 3;4....our lack of faith that He didn't take away all their

sins[after all we see men sin every day/judge by appearance of our eyes]our lack of faith that God

is not counting mens sins against them etc.when we doubt..or judge by the appearance of our eyes

we can't walk the way of the sea with wind and waves buffeting us..

I believe we may be judged that we had little faith or great faith..He may just say 'WHY DID YOU DOUBT?" :2c:

we sink beneath the waves when we doubt

lackoffaith

[DavidFord]

lightly edited, from https://youtu.be/K0WpHwOeRiQ
Marz 5 hours ago
.... it is the lie of Hell that has no biblical standing.
There is no such concept as "never ending punishment" or "eternal conscious torment" anywhere in original Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
The pagan man-made doctrine of never-ending punishment was added when the original scriptures were translated into Latin and later English. This is not a secret to anyone who has taken the time to do their due diligence.
ALL of God's judgements are purposeful and teach righteousness.
God is not a psychopath worse than Hitler, and Jesus is not an impotent failure savior.
The purpose of mankind is to be made in God's image, it is NOT a chance to choose between different eternal destinies.
The lie of Hell is being exposed, and the glory of The God and savior of ALL people, ESPECIALLY those that believe is being revealed, and the dark principalities and powers are being shaken, and some people don't like being awakened to the true glory of the God, father and savior of ALL!
But like it or not, the true Gospel will be heard!  In Jesus mighty unmatchable name!
Christ Triumphant!

[Patinak]

Love that Marz!

[rosered]

     Speaking the truth in LOVE  !!!  :dsunny:   :HeartThrob:
 

Thanks   for this !

[marie glen]

Love that Marz!

lightly edited, from https://youtu.be/K0WpHwOeRiQ
Marz 5 hours ago
.... it is the lie of Hell that has no biblical standing.
There is no such concept as "never ending punishment" or "eternal conscious torment" anywhere in original Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
The pagan man-made doctrine of never-ending punishment was added when the original scriptures were translated into Latin and later English. This is not a secret to anyone who has taken the time to do their due diligence.
ALL of God's judgements are purposeful and teach righteousness.
God is not a psychopath worse than Hitler, and Jesus is not an impotent failure savior.
The purpose of mankind is to be made in God's image, it is NOT a chance to choose between different eternal destinies.
The lie of Hell is being exposed, and the glory of The God and savior of ALL people, ESPECIALLY those that believe is being revealed, and the dark principalities and powers are being shaken, and some people don't like being awakened to the true glory of the God, father and savior of ALL!
But like it or not, the true Gospel will be heard!  In Jesus mighty unmatchable name!
Christ Triumphant!

Amen! Especially - "The purpose of mankind is to be made in God's image, it is NOT a chance to choose between different eternal destinies." :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

...And amen sisters.. :thumbsup:

[sheila]

amen..but there is a real psychopath..that transforms himself into an angel[messenger]of light..that is actually darkness.....andmany

people know not what they worship. This 'false'image/idolofgod..Blasphemes God's NAME and JESUS[Savior/Love] and those who dwell

in heaven as well as men on earth....for filthy mammon every sunday. Judgingby appearance the flesh of menthey call'sinners' due to

seeing'sinworks'intheir flesh..they are as white washed graves..that outwardly appear clean,yet inside them is a most foul spirit/fullof

dead mens bones.  But those dead  :girlheart:men's bones shall live!!!!

[sheila]

the thirdtrumpet. Revelation of ChristRev 8;10  satan fell like a torch from heaven[transformed into angel of light] and made one third of

the waters 'bitter'many people died[spiritually] from the waters that had become bitter[goodnews turned into gospel of condemnation of

men] to the starving every bitter thing is 'sweet"but the BRANCH sweetens the waters to preserve life. Exodus 15;22-27 :girlheart:

[DavidFord]

My opinions, unless otherwise noted:
"Sheol is the grave, NOT Hell"
Are Hell and Hades different?  Is Hades in the LXX (a Greek translation of the OT)?

Sheol
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sheol/
Old Testament. The Hebrew word seol [l/a.v], "Sheol, " refers to the grave or the abode of the dead ( Psalms 88:3 Psalms 88:5 ). Through much of the Old Testament period, it was believed that all went one place, whether human or animal ( Psalms 49:12 Psalms 49:14 Psalms 49:20 ), whether righteous or wicked ( Eccl 9:2-3 ). No one could avoid Sheol ( Psalm 49:9 ; 89:48 ), which was thought to be down in the lowest parts of the earth ( Deut 32:22 ; 1 Sam 28:11-15 ; Job 26:5 ; Psalm 86:13 ; Isa 7:11 ; Ezekiel 31:14-16 Ezekiel 31:18 ).

Unlike this world, Sheol is devoid of love, hate, envy, work, thought, knowledge, and wisdom ( Ecclesiastes 9:6 Ecclesiastes 9:10 ). Descriptions are bleak: There is no light ( Job 10:21-22 ; 17:13 ; Psalms 88:6 Psalms 88:12 ; 143:3 ), no remembrance ( Psalm 6:5 ; 88:12 ; Eccl 9:5 ), no praise of God ( Psalm 6:5 ; 30:9 ; 88:10-12 ; 115:17 ; Isa 38:18 ) — in fact, no sound at all ( Psalm 94:17 ; 115:17 ). Its inhabitants are weak, trembling shades ( Job 26:5 ; Psalm 88:10-12 ; Isa 14:9-10 ) who can never hope to escape from its gates ( Job 10:21 ; 17:13-16 ; Isa 38:10 ). Sheol is like a ravenous beast that swallows the living without being sated ( Prov 1:12 ; 27:20 ; Isa 5:14 ). Some thought the dead were cut off from God ( Psalm 88:3-5 ; Isa 38:11 ); while others believed that God's presence reached even to Sheol (Psalm 139:8 ).

Toward the end of the Old Testament, God revealed that there will be a resurrection of the dead ( Isa 26:19 ). Sheol will devour no longer; instead God will swallow up Death ( Isa 25:8 ). The faithful will be rewarded with everlasting life while the rest will experience eternal contempt ( Dan 12:2 ). This theology developed further in the intertestamental period.

The New Testament. By the time of Jesus, it was common for Jews to believe that the righteous dead go to a place of comfort while the wicked go to Hades ("Hades" normally translates "Sheol" in the LXX), a place of torment ( Luke 16:22-23 ).

[DavidFord]

My opinions, unless otherwise noted:
"What kind of 'good father' would burn his child's hand in a fire, if the child did wrong-- please explain"
If a father tells his child, "Don't touch the stove," and then she touches the stove and gets burned, the child may conclude that her father burned her hand in response to her disobedience.  In reality, the stove was hot, and touching the hot stove resulted in a burned hand.  God is a good father; people getting burned/hurt because of their (or another's) ignoring God & instead doing wrong isn't God burning them.

"All those verses you quote above bar 1 or 2 in revelation refer to the grave not hell as a place of torment" 
Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus has Sheol being "a place of torment":
Luke 16, based on Paul Younan's translation from the original Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com
19. Now there was a certain rich man, and he would wear purple and linen. And everyday he would luxuriously make merry.
20. And there was a certain poor man whose name (was) Lazar.
And he would lay at the gate of that rich man, while being afflicted with sores.
21. And he was longing to fill his stomach
from the crumbs that fell from the table of that rich man.
But even the dogs would come lick his sores.
22. And now this happened:
that poor man died and the angels carried him to the bosom of Awraham,
and also that rich man died and was buried.
23. And while he was tormented in Sheol,
he lifted up his eyes and gazed from afar upon Awraham and upon Lazar at his bosom.
24. And he cried out in a loud voice and said,
Abbi [my father] Awraham, have compassion on me
and send Lazar that he may dip the tip (of) his finger in water
and moisten my tongue for me,
for behold, I'm tormented in this flame!'
25. Awraham said to him,
My son, remember that you received your good things during your life,
and Lazar his bad things.
And now behold, he is comfortable here
and you are tormented.
26. Besides all these things, a great chasm is placed between you and us
so that those who desire to pass over from here to you are not able,
and neither (are) those from there (able) to pass over to us.'
27. He said to him,
'If so, I beseech you abbi
that you send him to my father's house,
28. for I have five brothers.
Let him go witness (to) them
that they not also come to this place of torment.'
29. Awraham said to him,
They have Moshe and the nabia [prophets]--
let them hear them.'
30. But he said to him,
No abbi Awraham,
but if a man from the dead should go to them,
they will repent.'
31. Awraham said to him,
'If they do not listen to Moshe and to the nabia,
if a man should rise from the dead,
they would also not believe him.'"

"Romans 10:7 is nothing to do with the topic...other translations render the word there..the abyss...as in the grave...so where do you get hell from....pagan sources?"
The original Aramaic speaks there of the deep/abyss of Sheol:
Romans 10:7, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And who shall descend into the deep of Sheul,
And bring up the Meshiha from among the dead ?
(Murdock) Or, Who descendeth to the abyss of the grave,
and bringeth up Messiah from the place of the dead?
(Lamsa) And who has descended into the abyss of Sheol
and brought up Christ from the dead?
(KJV) Or, Who shall descend into the deep?
(that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

"God is AMAZING!!!  The way He can make events happen so that eyes can be opened and hearts can be changed and turned Back To Him!"
God aggressively pursues people now on earth, and those that wind up in hell.
"When Yeshua Shed His Own Life's Blood - He Gave Us the Exact Same Relationship that He had with His Father" 
Interesting.  The veil is torn.  Everybody is in Christ, and is now a son/daughter of God.  Some realize that, and some realize that and live like it's the case.

"why would god require constant praise from his creation? must be pretty selfish if so" 
I don't think God "requires constant praise from his creation."  Perhaps inanimate matter and animals are built such that they praise God constantly.  Humans, though, have a choice as to when they'll acknowledge God, and when they'll praise him.  God doesn't need humans, and wouldn't be lacking in himself in any way if humans were to have not existed, or if no humans praised him.  Humans acknowledging and praising God is good for those humans that do so.  Ignoring God is harmful for those humans that ignore God, and the ignoring at some point ends.

Luke 19
35. And they brought it [the colt] to Yeshua and cast their garments upon the colt, and they seated Yeshua upon it. 36. And when he came, they were spreading their garments on the road. 37. And when he drew near to the descent of the tuora [mountain] of Beth-Zayteh, the crowd of talmida [students] all began rejoicing and praising Allaha in a loud voice over all the miracles that they had seen. 38. And they were saying,
"Blessed is the malka [king] who comes in the name of Mar-YAH [Master YHWH].
Shlama [peace] in heaven,
and shubkha [glory] in the highest!"
39. But some of the Pharisees from among the crowds said to him, "Rabbi, rebuke your students!" 40. He said to them,
"I say to you that
if these should be silent,
the rocks would cry out."

Psalm 19 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+19&version=NIV
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.  ....

"According to Christianity, Eichmann, by accepting Jesus was granted a place in heaven.  The six million Jews, who did not accept Jesus, were not accorded such grace.  This is Christianity."
In the end, everybody will be in heaven.  Jesus paid for everybody, and after all is said and done, he'll get everybody.
Universal Restoration & the Fate of the Wicked
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/universal-restoration-verses/

[DavidFord]

IMO, unless otherwise noted.
In the end, _everyone_ will get to heaven, all because of Yeshua the Meshikha.

Romans 5 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/romans/5.htm
6 But surely because of our weakness, at this time The Messiah has died for the sake of the wicked. 7 For a man will hardly die for the sake of the wicked, however a man perhaps may dare to die for the sake of the good. 8 *Here God demonstrates his love for us, because if when we were sinners, The Messiah died in our place,* 9 How much more therefore, would we all the more be justified now by his blood and be saved from wrath by him? 10 For if *when we were enemies, God was reconciled with us in the death of his Son,* how much more therefore, in his reconciliation, shall we live all the more by his life? 11 And not in this way only, but also we glory in God by Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 For just as *by the agency of one man, sin entered the universe,* and by means of sin, death, in this way death passed by this sin unto all the children of men, because all of them have sinned. 13 For until The Written Law, sin was in the universe, but it was not accounted as sin, because there was no written law. 14 But death reigned from Adam and until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's violation of the law, who was the image of him who was to come.

15 But the fall was unlike the gift in this way:  for *if because of the fall of one the many died, much more, therefore, the grace of God and the gift by The One Man Yeshua The Messiah shall superabound to the many.*  16 And the gift is not the same as the offense of the one, for the judgment was from the one to pronouncing guilty verdicts, but the gift was from many sins to righteousness.  17 For *if because of the offense of one, death reigned, all the more, those who receive an abundance of favor and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by the agency of The One, Yeshua The Messiah.*

18 In like manner therefore, because of the offense of the one there was a guilty verdict to all the children of men, in the same way, *because of the righteousness of The One there shall be the victory for Life to all the children of men.*  19 For *just as because of the disobedience of one man the many became sinners, so also because of the obedience of The One the many become righteous.* 20 But *there was the introduction to The Written Law that sin would increase, and wherever sin increased, there grace superabounded.*  21 That as sin reigned by death, in this way grace shall reign by righteousness to eternal life by Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.

[DavidFord]

IMO, unless otherwise noted.  Lightly edited, from https://youtu.be/WL1Tr3cBDZ4
James P.  52 minutes ago
You are in a place of the fear of God. The fear of God is the Old Covenant.  That was the BEGINNING of wisdom. That was Adam and Eve hiding from God in the garden because they broke his command of "Thou shalt not."  When you tell a kid "Thou shalt not eat from the cookie jar," they will then be fixated on the cookie jar and will eventually eat it.  It's the same with God:  he gave Israel the Old Covenant of "Thou shalt nots" and death penalties, to create/put a stumbling block in front of Israel and a lesson for the world.  The strictest religion in the world and the most harsh punishments was the Old Covenant.  And in that strict religion with harsh punishments no one was made righteous.
Paul told us the Law of Moses was given to Israel to increase transgression.  It was a spiritual lesson that RELIGION (a word that means bondage) DOESNT WORK.
The Old Covenant is the fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom, while the New Covenant is perfect love that casts out fear.