Jesus Returned in Power and Glory

[DavidFord]

Some that Saw Jesus Die Witnessed Jesus' Return in Power and Glory

Jesus prophesied to the high priest, [Mark 14:62]"ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Mark 14:61-62 (KJV)  But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?  And Jesus said, I am: and *ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.*

Jesus prophesied that the [Mt 16:27-28]"Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels.... Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Matthew 16:27-28  For *the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;* and then he shall reward every man according to his works.  Verily I say unto you, *There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.*

Jesus prophesied that [Mt 24:30, 34]"shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:  and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  .... This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And *then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:  and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.*
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, *This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.*

Jesus prophesied that people would [Luke 21:27, 32]"see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.... Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
*6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.*
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near:  go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
*20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.*

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
*24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.*
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
*27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.*
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
*32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.*
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

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Do you agree with me that the writer of Revelation stated that Jesus [Rev 1:7]"cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him"?
Do you agree with me that the writers of James and Revelation thought [James 5:8]"the coming of the Lord draweth nigh"?
Rev 1 (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants *things which must shortly come to pass;* and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:  ....  3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for *the time is at hand.*  ....  7 Behold, *he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, **and they also which pierced him:**  and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.* Even so, Amen.
Rev 22
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants *the things which must shortly be done.*   7 Behold, *I come quickly:*  blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.  ....  10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for *the time is at hand.*  ....  12 And, behold, *I come quickly;* and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.  ....  20 He which testifieth these things saith, *Surely I come quickly.*  Amen.  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

James 5:3  Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire.  *Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.*
James 5:7-9
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.  Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for *the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.*
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned:  behold, *the judge standeth before the door.*

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Do you agree with me that the writers of these books thought they were living in the "last days"/"last times"?:  1 John.  1 Peter.  1 Corinthians.  Hebrews.

1 John 2:18  Little children, *it is the last time:* and *as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.*
Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For *many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.*  ....
23 Then *if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.*
24 For *there shall arise false Christs,* and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore *if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.*
27 *For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.*

1 Peter 1:20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but *was manifest in these last times for you,*
1 Peter 4:7 But *the end of all things is at hand:*
be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

1 Corinthians 7:29-31
29 But this I say, brethren, *the time is short:* it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for *the fashion of this world passeth away.*
1 Corinthians 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and *they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*

Hebrews 1:1-2  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath *in these last days* spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 9:26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once *in the end of the world hath he appeared* to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:37 For *yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.*

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Do you agree with me that the writers of 2 Timothy and Jude warned their readers about danger "in the last days"/ "in the last time"?
Jude 1:17-19   But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be *mockers in the last time,* who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
2 Timothy 3:1  This know also, that *in the last days perilous times shall come.*

Do you agree with Peter that a prophecy by Joel was fulfilled i.e. occurred [Acts 2:17]"in the last days"?
Acts 2
1 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.  ....
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

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Do you think that "all nations"/"many nations" are presently flowing unto "the house of the Lord"?
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass *in the last days,* that *the mountain [foundation?] of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains,* and shall be exalted above the hills; *and all nations shall flow unto it.*
Micah 4:1-2  But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and *people shall flow unto it.  And many nations shall come,* and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Rev 21:9-10   And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Do you think Jesus has, or hasn't, become the cornerstone?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Ps 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Ps 144:12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth;
that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:
Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Jeremiah 51:26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the Lord.
Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
1 Peter 2:6-7 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.  Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Do you think Jesus was accurate, or inaccurate, in his prediction that his group of 12 disciples, suffering persecution while going from Israeli city to Israeli city preaching, wouldn't finish visiting all the cities of Israel before the Son of man came?
Matthew 10 (KJV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  ....
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.  ....
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Some leads were provided by:
Second Coming Of Jesus Christ in 70 AD
https://youtu.be/Vjc1Aa0a0rk
New Covenant Vs Old Covenant
https://youtu.be/pvA_sWP6fGk
More handouts:  bottom of
http://podbay.fm/show/665532730

[DavidFord]

Josephus, Book VI, Chapter 5, Section 3 (Entire)
http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_theological.html#Book_VI,_Chapter_V,_Section_2
The Signs That Preceded The Destruction  .... Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year (4). Thus also, before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eight day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour (5). This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.

Tisha Be'AV - Churban HaBayit
At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night (6). Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal forshewed the desolation that was coming upon them.

Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities (7). Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking (8), and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." (9)

"A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities."  (Chilton, Jerusalem Under Siege)  ....

[rosered]

  Hi David ,
  I believe the scriptures Jesus Christ Is fulfilling all things .

Not so much with human eyes , but the single eye  , Yes   by the Light and knowledge of GOD  .
    the cross looked weak and beggarly to   the human eyes ,  and  an example of faith  works   was  the centurion  whom   believed  truly  this is the Son of God ... awakened by  faith  out of sleep /death  about the things of God ...
by his own experience   How could he testify of what he knew except by the Holy Spirit   poured out on him to believe and speak  of Gods glory  ?   we have this witness now to this day  added with our own experiences of the Holy Spirit working in  us too ,  because we believe  it is truth .  ...  Matt 27  The Centurion at the Cross.

MATT. XXVII.54. Comp. MARK XV.39.
"Now, when the centurion, and they that were with him watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying: Truly this was the  Son of God."

LUKE XXIII.47.

"Now, when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying: Certainly this was a righteous man."

Jesus prophesied to the high priest, [Mark 14:62]"ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Jesus prophesied that the [Mt 16:27-28]"Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels.... Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."  Did that prophecy come to pass?
Jesus prophesied that people would [Luke 21:27, 32]"see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.... Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."  Did that prophecy come to pass?

  Yes   the prophecy come to pass !!   the law puts you to death , Paul said I was alive without the law once  , than it came and put me to death .     the old man of sin must not rule  our hearts  any longer , but Christ sitting in our hearts   to motivate good works from the Father , no one is above his master / Lord    , He becomes our strength  and purpose    , making all things new .

Do you agree with me that the writer of Revelation stated that Jesus [Rev 1:7]"cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him"?
Do you agree with me that the writers of James and Revelation thought [James 5:8]"the coming of the Lord draweth nigh"?

  Yes , the great cloud of witnesses   , all  are found in the HOLY SPIRIT  giving life and good things to those whom ask  God  for help .
   Hebrews 12 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God....

Colo 1 The Supremacy of Christ
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.


16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.

All things were created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together....

This is a pretty powerful witness  and TRUTH . we should all   put our faith in .

Seeing with the eyes of FAITH , we know   everything will be fulfilled as promised  by GODS WORD   that can never return to Him Void , but purposed   
we do see iniquity  abounding  now in our days  and yet we know Jesus told us not to harden our hearts and become cold and dead    to God  and we know also  because  iniquity abounds the grace of GOD abounds the more .
So we would not become so easily shaken  by the chaos   we see the  old heavens and earth becoming .......

GODS promise to make all things new  and living By His One of a kind Son will accomplish   everything   He has set it it to do from the beginning to the end of all things   as we know it .

   Ever look up ''all things ''  in the bible ?  A great study of faith in Gods grace  though the Lord Jesus Christ/ Word of God  while becoming students to the Word of God / Jesus Christ  fulfilling  all things of heaven and earth  and below  . and covers everything  for all times  and ages .

  25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."



27"Look," Peter replied, "we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?"...

  Romans 14  11It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God....
 
  we all will  or have  or even are doing  now .....  Give an account  of ourselves   before  the Living  GOD .....
Rev 5
The Scroll with Seven Seals
...2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look inside it.

4And I began to weep bitterly, because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside it....

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,



Revelation 5:13
And I heard every creature in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and in the sea,

and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever!"


Covers everything  possible and impossible  to man , the seals open  when  the Lamb  Jesus becomes your savior  and GOD sits on the throne of your heart ...

I believe this is why no man knows  , Only the Father only , because  GOD chooses  whom these things come to  individually   or as many  tombs /our hearts /where death reigned    as He wants  to  open and prepare   and  now  sit upon .

It is as individual as God made personalities   ,  OF whom would have the Word of Life   coming forth out of them  as a witness and to testify of His glory   through the Great Holy Spirit  ,  the eternal witness    , that always  was and is and will be known and made known .

[DavidFord]

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

[rosered]

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

  I believe we have to quit looking at mans witness and Look to GOD for our unmovable  witness 

  mankind makes us doubt  and confuses  us all ,   puts up stumbling blocks along the way of our race set before us  ,  but if your heart becomes pure  innocent , like a little childs , so curious and teachable  and willing to obey , to actually know GODS DESIRES  , just ask Him over and over again to show you the way and truth and life  .

  God promises to  fill us with  more and more  knowledge and love for  Him...... to know God is to love Him ,   the knowledge that puffs up   one against another is forbidden fruit though , we have to be humbled  , God rebukes and scourges every child received  into His kingdom / realm   for the greater good  of all  as ONE and One for all .

[DavidFord]

  I believe we have to quit looking at mans witness and Look to GOD for our unmovable  witness

Do you think it's OK to review eyewitness and historical accounts? The 4 Gospels consist of such.

[DavidFord]

Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilius (c. 265-339) Bishop of Cesarea, in Palestine, written in A.D. 325
http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/0325_eusebius_history.html
BOOK III, CHAPTER VII.
The Predictions of Christ.
     It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Saviour in which he foretold these very events. His words are as follows: "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day; For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." The historian, reckoning the whole number of the slain, says that eleven hundred thousand persons perished by famine and sword, and that the rest of the rioters and robbers, being betrayed by each other after the taking of the city, were slain. But the tallest of the youths and those that were distinguished for beauty were preserved for the triumph. Of the rest of the multitude, those that were over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor in the works of Egypt, while still more were scattered through the provinces to meet their death in the theaters by the sword and by beasts. Those under seventeen years of age were carried away to be sold as slaves, and of these alone the number reached ninety thousand. These things took place in this manner in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, in accordance with the prophecies of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who by divine power saw them beforehand as if they were already present, and wept and mourned according to the statement of the holy evangelists, who give the very words which be uttered, when, as if addressing Jerusalem herself, he said: "If thou hadst known, even thou, in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a rampart about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee and thy children even with the ground." And then, as if speaking concerning the people, he says, "For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." And again: "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

     If any one compares the words of our Saviour with the other accounts of the historian concerning the whole war, how can one fail to wonder, and to admit that the foreknowledge and the prophecy of our Saviour were truly divine and marvelously strange. Concerning those calamities, then, that befell the whole Jewish nation after the Saviour's passion and after the words which the multitude of the Jews uttered, when they begged the release of the robber and murderer, but besought that the Prince of Life should be taken from their midst, it is not necessary to add anything to the account of the historian. But it may be proper to mention also those events which exhibited the graciousness of that all-good Providence which held back their destruction full forty years after their crime against Christ,--during which time many of the apostles and disciples, and James himself the first bishop there, the one who is called the brother of the Lord, were still alive, and dwelling in Jerusalem itself, remained the surest bulwark of the place. Divine Providence thus still proved itself long-suffering toward them in order to see whether by repentance for what they had done they might obtain pardon and salvation; and in addition to such long-suffering, Providence also furnished wonderful signs of the things which were about to happen to them if they did not repent. Since these matters have been thought worthy of mention by the historian already cited, we cannot do better than to recount them for the benefit of the readers of this work.

CHAPTER III, VIII.
The Signs that Preceded the War.
     Taking, then, the work of this author, read what he records in the sixth book of his History. His words are as follows: "Thus were the miserable people won over at this time by the impostors and false prophets; but they did not heed nor give credit to the visions and signs that foretold the approaching desolation. On the contrary, as if struck by lightning, and as if possessing neither eyes nor understanding, they slighted the proclamations of God. At one time a star, in form like a sword, stood over the city, and a comet, which lasted for a whole year; and again before the revolt and before the disturbances that led to the war, when the people were gathered for the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth of the month Xanthicus, at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone about the altar and the temple that it seemed to be bright day; and this continued for half an hour. This seemed to the unskillful a good sign, but was interpreted by the sacred scribes as portending those events which very soon took place. And at the same feast a cow, led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. And the eastern gate of the inner temple, which was of bronze and very massive, and which at evening was closed with difficulty by twenty men, and rested upon iron-bound beams, and had bars sunk deep in the ground, was seen at the sixth hour of the night to open of itself. And not many days after the feast, on the twenty-first of the month Artemisium, a certain marvelous vision was seen which passes belief. The prodigy might seem fabulous were it not related by those who saw it, and were not the calamities which followed deserving of such signs. For before the setting of the sun chariots and armed troops were seen throughout the whole region in mid-air, wheeling through the clouds and encircling the cities. And at the feast which is called Pentecost, when the priests entered the temple at night, as was their custom, to perform the services, they said that at first they perceived a movement and a noise, and afterward a voice as of a great multitude, saying, 'Let us go hence.'

[rosered]

 
  ps I have been  exalted  and truly abased by God  many times already and just come out of a personal prison
  I never want  to go back to that way of thinking ever again ,  accusing  the lesser  and most hateful and spiteful folks   to be around , but to become like them !!!    God help..... no way  ever again   , to sad  :sigh:

  Its been horrible and have suffered  , mind body and spirit  , health and languish of the soul , not happy at all
  felt  cast off  for a long while   after tasting the goodness of God  , to loose that  was   a  devastating  loss .

Would love everyone to be saved  and kept safe in the good grace of Gods  mercy  , I pray  MERCY  over judgment  for all .
  just a personal note here .

  God bless and keep you and all

Quote from: rosered on Today at 12:32:25 PM
  I believe we have to quit looking at mans witness and Look to GOD for our unmovable  witness
Do you think it's OK to review eyewitness and historical accounts? The 4 Gospels consist of such.

  yes MOST definitely  !    these examples are for our benefit  .
  Look at all the bible knowledge     we have at our fingertips   and able to read  freely   and yet the famine  is  what ?

  for the hearing of the WORD OF GOD     ,  Not the WORD OF GOD  its all around us  and easily  available  to anyone  anywhere   ears have been stopped  up , it seems  and the necks of those  whom has become stiff necked , unless they would turn from that way of doing and God would heal them ..

   the famine for the hearing the  word of God   , lots of lies are being told   about GOD  , FALSE WITNESS .....Lies of the serpent   are being done in GODS name   accusing the brethren before GOD day and night !!  it is an evil   that is escalating at a rapid pace .......   
we are not to accuse   , but pray for them all and  be good to them  , setting the same example the LORD did before His enemies   of the cross    . no one takes it to heart  it seems  :sigh:


Amos 8 10I will turn your feasts into mourning and all your songs into lamentation.

I will cause everyone to wear sackcloth and every head to be shaved. I will make it like a time of mourning for an only son, and its outcome like a bitter day.

11Behold! The days are coming," declares the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land— not a famine of bread or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.


12People will stagger from sea to sea and roam from north to east, seeking the word of the LORD, but they will not find it....

  I do believe this prophecy is very real and  active  right now .

Blessings  always  in the Lord .

[DavidFord]

control-f/ "find" for:  comet
Pseudo Hegesippus, writer unknown, possibly Ambrose of Milan, (Approx. 370-375), Translated from Latin into English
http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/0370_hegesippus-pseudo_jerusalem.html
XLIV.  For through a year almost above the temple itself a comet burned, extending a certain likeness of fire and a sword announcing with iron and fire the coming destruction of the people and the kingdom and the city itself.  What indeed did the likeness of a sword announce if not war, what the fire if not the burning?  Moreover it was seen before the people dissociated themselves from the Romans.  During the very days of the Passover on the eighth day of the month of Xanthicus and through every night around the ninth hour the temple and its altar so shone with light as if it were day, remaining daily through half an hour almost, which the crowd explained to be seen as an indication of the people heaping up and having been driven there as if the time were at hand for recovering their freedom.[p. 392]  The wiser thought the contrary, because that type of star is accustomed to announce war.  Nor was there anyone who thought our people to have spoken something foreign from our religion and teaching, first because we added not what seems good to us, but what happened, or what were the opinions at that time, what the wise people felt, what the foolish.  Nor was anything said from the doctrines of the Jews, thus it might seem to have been written by us, as if in truth not as if in obscurity and figures of speech we were contriving their religion to have been sent in advance, so that more perfect things might follow.  For about the signs of the stars even in the Gospels we are taught that there were signs in the sun and the moon and the stars.6  They assert also that in the birth of a calf, when the victim stood before the altar, in the middle of the temple a sheep was born in the very celebration of the religious rites we mentioned above, also the heavy eastern interior door, which was accustomed to be closed at evening with the great effort of twenty men, fastened with iron bars, through several nights was spontaneously unbarred, and scarcely afterwards was shut by the guards.  That also many thought a sign of future benefits, to which about to enter the door was opening.  The more learned however said the protection of the temple having been loosened to be seen, that whatever was inside would be plundered by enemies, the worship would go out, devastation would enter, fame would be emptied, the offering would be destroyed.  Which even before, when they crucified Christ Iesus, the narrative teaches the meaning clearly. Also after many days a certain figure appeared of tremendous size, which many saw, just as the books of the Jews have disclosed, and before the setting of the sun there were suddenly seen in the clouds chariots [p. 393] and armed battle arrays, by which the cities of all Iudaea and its territories were invaded.  Moreover in the celebration itself of the Pentecost the priests entering the interior of the temple at night time, that they might celebrate the usual sacrifices, asserted themselves at first to have felt a certain movement and a sound given forth, afterwards even to have heard shouted in a sudden voice:  "we cross over from here."

[sheila]

 :2c:no doubt many such things occurred as the old law covenant passed  away...and God's spirit was transposed to dwell in men.......

yet,wars and desolations have continued unto the end...and the fullness of the gentiles is here.satan is released from the abyss

to go forth deceiving all the nations...and the camp of the Holy city[man with his free gift of eternal life]is surrounded/underseige

many body temples defiled and with abominations that cause terror.,strage'fire'being offered up.........He putting up with much

patience the vessels fitted for destruction[these bodies under going this death]..in order to show His great mercy unto the vessels fitted

for mercy[our spirits transposed to always dwell in heaven] the wall of fire shallcome down from heaven and consume

our wicked adversaries...and we,too,shall also say in spirit...WE CROSS[pass]OVER FROM HERE.

Malachi 3;1

[marie glen]

 OP -

I believe some standing there - saw the kingdom in the transfiguration six days later.. and when they looked again they saw "only Jesus" - the kingdom!

I believe every eye will witness His arrival upon what I think of as 'playback' of all history during Judgment 'Day'.

And at the time of His full and literal return, I believe every eye (alive at that time) will see Him coming on the clouds in great glory, including Israel which pierced Him..

I am a literalist. Though of course there is always the spiritual simile and metaphor involved, but to me literal is the collective so of more glory.. but of course, without the individual / spiritual fulfillment, there is no collective!

But for instance, if a New Jerusalem city is prophesied to come to the Earth, I believe it will literally happen. (Glory!) And the resurrection believers of all ages were already upon Earth during the millennium, so I can't believe the New Jerusalem of Rev 21 to be the church/believers, but a literal new capital of Earth.

The question He was asked in Matthew 24 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm - seems to be two questions - when will the stones of the temple complex be thrown down? (70a.d.) and - what will be the signs of His coming / return and the end of the ages (yes I think g165 leans more toward the plural than g166..

"And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved.."

- "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." (I believe in reading this as literal, so not only about the coming of God's Holy Spirit on Pentecost, or about 70 a.d.

"29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken (appear so/great earthquake prophesied elsewhere). 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then  all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

And the things completing before 'this' generation passes is in context to it's connected verses..
- "32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree (Israel): When its branch has already become tender and puts-forth-leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation (of the fig tree sprouting) will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

"To eat and drink with drunkards" I believe includes both literal - getting drunk/dissolute lifestyle; and also as metaphor for drunken perception.. the confusion that is the forehead/psyche of the unsaved (babble on and on) world empire(s) of man, i.e. confusion.
:2c: :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

I cannot do it myself, but I'll leave this here:

https://alwaysbeready.com/preterism-refuted

[marie glen]

Hi ML123! I've been missing you! :hiya: :friendstu:

[sheila]

Romans9;28for the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.

v29Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants.......Peter and the sheet descending and ascending backup

this child will be a sign spoken against. rising  and falling of many in Israe.John1;51......

   Rev 21;2Holy city descending out of heaven from God.Man's spirit is a direct descendant of God the Father..and no man is his Father

the seed of those first-born in heaven that fall unto the earth and die[sown incorruption and weakness[flesh]]do ascend..and

meet the Lord in the clouds of heaven. :2c:

[MusicLover123]

Hi ML123! I've been missing you! :hiya: :friendstu:

Hi MG! I've haven't left, just haven't spoke here as much lately  :friendstu:

[marie glen]

  I believe we have to quit looking at mans witness and Look to GOD for our unmovable  witness

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Do you think it's OK to review eyewitness and historical accounts? The 4 Gospels consist of such.

Of course! But especially the gospel eye witness accounts (testimonies)..  And to me, what I read in God's Word trumps all other things.. and accounts.. and thoughts, theories or anything of man.. And I think it's only by consistent long term reading, study and prayerful seeking.. Because no one part stands alone.. and it requires well rounded consideration of all the pertaining verses on a topic. So I think it takes us some time for the full picture to emerge. And I think He always confirms truths and also builds upon them.. I always figure if there's no follow up building upon an idea or view I have about something biblical, then it's very likely in error somehow.

For example, i once for a short while, believed in eternal annihilation. I figured surely God would indeed reach most people before they die.. but those that would not be reached would truly perish. But the follow up I got on that was a consideration of, or pointing out of the fruit of such belief. How it always descends into the idea of superior and inferior.. etc. As my thought or justification of annihilation - seeing as God is Love - was that anyone that ended up as lost was not created by God at all, but somehow by Satan and thus were literally children of the devil. And those ideas always just lead to really really bad stuff.. Besides how the Word says we were all children of the devil, not just some!

So always with the study I think is so important the waiting upon Him to follow up on things or to tear down.. And for the final word on things..

[marie glen]

Hi ML123! I've been missing you! :hiya: :friendstu:

Hi MG! I've haven't left, just haven't spoke here as much lately  :friendstu:

P.S. - that was a good link..

pointed out how there was preterist view way back in Paul's day - 

QUOTE:
2 Timothy 2:17-18
"...Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some."

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
"Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you."

Also how -

QUOTE:
Matthew 10:23
"When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes." ...a prevailing Jewish unreceptivity to the gospel prevented the disciples from going through all the cities of Israel. And to this day the job of taking the gospel to all the Jews has not been completed.

And also how Revelation's " 'I am coming to you quickly.'  " is presumed to mean "soon" - but, the word is the Greek word "tachús" which refers to a swift event not necessarily a soon event.

And how the first church fathers did not mention Christ's Second Coming as having already occurred..

And verses like this don't fit into past events.. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
"And then the lawless one [that is one of the titles given to the coming world leader] will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming."

good article..

Part of the problem though, I think, is the futurist view seeks to put the Book of Revelation (and all other 'last days' prophecy) in a box labeled 7 years only.

If only more people could understand.. Revelation for instance is like a play and an orchestra with scenes and curtains.. and meanwhile scenes..

But it all fits in the Seals.. which are preterist and futurist.. especially as the Seals (elements of the latter age) are described in their bud, but also in the description so early on, is their full maturity. Kind of locks the vision right there, "for many days".. Chapters as inserts do the same thing later on..

Revelation 13, for example is both preterist and futurist! So is 12. Both inserts and basically total histories all on their own.

(oh yes.. what about the verse in Daniel that knowledge would greatly increase? Do we see this in the modern age? and Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue of world empires through the ages and the mountain (kingdom) made without (human) hands will strike the feet of the statue (the ten toes, divisions, "ten kings of the last hour")... and the mountain/kingdom will fill the earth.. And after that thrones are set up for judgment.. I can't believe the Kingdom is established on Earth when terrible things are still occurring.

And I can't forget also how Jesus said to Jerusalem (Israel, the Jews) - You will not see me again until you say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD" Mt.23:39. (And notice how the Sealing of 144,000 of Rev. 7 goes right along with that.. not that the scene is literally with the sealed literally in the heavens.. but sealed and thus worship.. (yes, it can be a confusing book :laughing7: separating the literal from the not so literal.. and getting the vision, the literal out from the symbols and the metaphors! Pretty dang creative.. An awesome puzzle.. Looking back upon that great day called Judgment 'Day', it won't be so hard.. And will be part of all the proof which is proving God right in all things..

Romans 3:3,4 - What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Certainly not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that You may be proved right when You speak, and prevail when You(Yhvh) are judged."

[marie glen]

Romans9;28for the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.

v29Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants.......Peter and the sheet descending and ascending backup

this child will be a sign spoken against. rising  and falling of many in Israe.John1;51......

   Rev 21;2Holy city descending out of heaven from God.Man's spirit is a direct descendant of God the Father..and no man is his Father

the seed of those first-born in heaven that fall unto the earth and die[sown incorruption and weakness[flesh]]do ascend..and

meet the Lord in the clouds of heaven. :2c:

Sheila, do you have any thoughts about the vision - in Zechariah 5, about three woman? One in a basket, called "wickedness" and two women, coming "with the wind in their wings" who have "wings like a stork" and they fly swiftly with the basket.. This image has come to my mind twice just recently, I think in my mind the 3 women were wearing white.
(Sort of toga-like garments)..

(..and they carry the basket "to the land of Shinar to set it on a base"..   an idol? as in a faith/belief/prophet,prophesying? Shinar of course was the land of Babylon.)

Is it the same, do you think, as the flying scroll that "goes out over the face of the whole earth" of the same chapter? (I'm inclined to think that..)

[MusicLover123]

Here are 2 videos as well:

https://youtu.be/QupdjuUEFiU

https://youtu.be/3r30CC88tJ8

[sheila]

HiMarie,I myself when I read that am inclined to think the same.I see captive Jerusalem[unrefined of her  drossby Christ]as the woman

in the basket with lid of lead....Jezebel spirit Thyatyra and Laodacean church as wind in their wings/also being carried offof winds

ofdoctrines.the scroll of curses for robbers/thieves that turn the Fathers House into a denof thieves[like Balaam paid to pronounce curses

on Israel/men].Israel was supposed to be a blessing unto all nations..we are to BLESSandCURSE NOT MEN MADE IN GOD'SIMAGE...

their foundation is not CHRISTandHIS BLESSING GOOD NEWS AND PEACE UNTO ALL MEN

I willpray about this..I would  like to have HIS mind/thoughts on it....

[sheila]

shinar[sin] I spronounced sinar=sina[e]r..those with their sin remaining for not forgiving their brother's/fellowmans; or rejected Christ

and His instructions to freeley forgive..and bless. curse not:2c:  Psalms 109;17He loved to pronounce a curse,mayitcome

on him,hefoundnopleasurein blessing..mayit befarfrom him

[DavidFord]

https://alwaysbeready.com/preterism-refuted

Thanks.  Do you think Jesus was accurate, or inaccurate, in his prediction that his group of 12 disciples, suffering persecution while going from Israeli city to Israeli city preaching [Mt 10]"to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," wouldn't finish visiting all the cities of Israel before the Son of man came? 

Matthew 10
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.   ....
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, *Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:*
6 *But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.*
7 And *as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.*
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils:  freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And *whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.*
15 Verily I say unto you, *It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.*
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:  be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men:  for *they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;*
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And *ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake:  but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.*
23 But *when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another:  for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.*
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And *fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:*  but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[DavidFord]

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/afterlife-the-messiah-101/
In the End of Days, the Messiah will gather the Jewish exiles to Israel and the Temple will be rebuilt. Some time later, the dead will be resurrected and reunited with their souls. This new, perfected universe is known as the World to Come.  This is a common–yet too simplistic–presentation of Jewish eschatology (literally, the study or theory of the End). In Jewish tradition, there is little consensus on how, what, and when things happen in the Great Beyond.  ....  Broadly speaking, the Messiah will be a descendant of King David who, in the future, will reign over a peaceful and prosperous Israel.

Do you think Jesus is the Meshikha/ Messiah/ Anointed/ Christ?
The Temple has been rebuilt in the spiritual realm (Rev 21:9-10), and the stone-- Jesus-- the builders rejected has become its cornerstone.  Jesus descended from King David on his mother's side and his father's side.  Jesus' mother Mary was a descendant of King David (see Matthew's geneology, Mt 1; Greek mss. of the NT have a mistranslation-- the original Aramaic says Mary had a gbra - guardian male i.e. father Joseph, besides her husband Joseph).  The Joseph that was Jesus' father was a descendant of King David (see Luke's geneology, Lk 3).

Do you think that "all nations"/"many nations" are presently flowing unto "the house of the Lord"?
Isaiah 2:2 (KJV) And it shall come to pass *in the last days,* that *the mountain [foundation?] of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains,* and shall be exalted above the hills; *and all nations shall flow unto it.*
Micah 4:1-2  But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and *people shall flow unto it.  And many nations shall come,* and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Rev 21:9-10   And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Do you think Jesus has, or hasn't, become the cornerstone?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Psalm 118:22 The stone which the builders refused
is become the head stone of the corner.
Psalm 144:12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth;
that our daughters may be as corner stones,
polished after the similitude of a palace:
Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Jeremiah 51:26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the Lord.
Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
1 Peter 2:6-7 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.  Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

[sheila]

the temple being rebuilt by Jesus Is with man's spirit..and it is rebuilt in heaven with living stones[spirit]and timbers of trees

of righteousness[spirits of men] :2c:

[Patinak]

Sheila,
"the temple being rebuilt by Jesus Is with man's spirit..and it is rebuilt in heaven with living stones[spirit]and timbers of trees of righteousness[spirits of men] :2c:"
:iagree:

David,
I will say that I think you have done a great job in presenting your case.  When I first read the Bible I had many of the concerns that Gary speaks about in the first paragraph of his article below.
The following is taken from the Dew Magazine and is written by Gary Amirault, founder of Tentmaker Ministries.
The Don Preston that Gary mentions is currently doing a youtube series on the Olivet Discourse for anyone that may want some in-depth study on the topic being discussed here.
Blessings all,
Pat

The Coming of Christ in 70 A.D.
By Gary Amirault

There are thousands, perhaps millions, of people who, after reading the Bible, have come to the same conclusion to which one of the most famous atheists, Bertrand Russell, came . He felt Jesus couldn't be Who He said He was because the things He and His apostles said would happen in their time, didn't happen. Below are listed a few of the many passages they would point to and say these things were not fulfilled according to the plain reading of the English text. This list comes from a little booklet entitled, "Can God Tell Time," by Don Preston.

    Matt. 10:23--Jesus said He would return in the lifetime of His disciples.
    Matt. 16:27-28--Jesus said He would return with His angels to judge all men before every one standing there died.
    Matt. 24:29-34--Jesus said He would return in the clouds with His angels--in that generation.
    Acts 3:19--Peter said Jesus would return when all the Old Covenant prophecies were fulfilled. If the Old Prophesies have not been fulfilled, the Old Covenant is still in effect. (Matthew 5:17-18)
    Romans 13:12--Paul said "the day is at hand." That was said 1900 years ago!
    1 Cor. 7:28-31--Paul said "the fashion of this world is passing away," and "the time is short." Again, this was stated 1900 years ago to that generation.
    Hebrews 9:28, 10:37--The writer said Christ would appear a second time for salvation and then asserted "in a very, very little while He that will come, and will not tarry." Is 1900 years a "little while?"
    James 5:7-9--James urged his readers to be faithful "until the coming of the Lord," he says "The coming of the Lord is at hand," and "The judge is standing right at the door."
    1 John 2:15-18--John said the world was passing away and "it is the last hour." Again, the last hour was 1900 years ago!
    Revelation--this book says no less than ten times that its predictions "must shortly come to pass," were "at hand," were to happen "quickly," there would be "no more delay," etc., etc.

Millions of people have read the Bible and said, "no more delay," "shortly," "quickly," "day is at hand," and "it is the last hour," cannot refer to thousands of years! These people have also had problems with Bible teachers taking scriptures like Daniel's 70 weeks and chopping the last 7 years of the prophecy and separating it by thousands of years from the first 69 weeks! They say if one does this with these kinds of scriptures, then one can turn the Bible into whatever they want.

As a result of Bible teachers twisting scriptures like the ones above and relegating them to our time, many sincere seekers have abandoned Christianity as an institution which declares truth. They have come to the conclusion that since the church teaches that Christ has not yet come back in His second coming, then Jesus and His apostles were false prophets. Therefore, they cannot put their faith and hope in Christianity. In the days ahead, we are going to look at all these scriptures and many more to see if, in fact, they were not fulfilled exactly as stated in the very generation to which Jesus was speaking. We are going to see, Jesus did return to that generation and fulfill everything He and His apostles said was "right at the door."

This world needs light. Many have abandoned any hope in Christianity, not because Jesus Christ missed it, but because many Bible teachers and preachers have missed it, big time! People, you are going to have so much joy seeing the Bible come together like it has never been seen before. We are indeed a blessed people and we are going to be a blessing to the world.

This study will be lengthy and cannot be completely discussed in Dew. The magazine is not designed to do this. We suggest those who want to study this out completely to do the following: 1. Get a copy of Josephus. Many Christian publishers have produced this work. I recommend trying to find an out-of-print version produced by Zondervan publishing edited by Cornfeld. It may be difficult to locate a copy, but it will be worth it if you find it. Most good seminaries will have more than one version of Josephus. He was a Jewish Priest and military commander who was captured by the Romans just prior to the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 A.D. 2. Read the section entitled War of the Jews. You will be amazed! 3. Order the tapes produced by Tentmaker entitled The Rapture of 70 A.D.. These tapes capture the history of Israel and Rome from approximately 30 A.D. to 73 A.D. and connect them with the sayings of Jesus and the apostles while tying Josephus into it. 4. Read future sections of Dew that will deal with the subject.

Just a little side remark on the tapes The Rapture of 70 A.D.. We do not teach the "rapture." This title was selected to attract those who do believe in the "any day now rapture." In 70 A.D. when the Jews were trapped in Jerusalem by the Roman Army, a prophet prophesied that God was going to deliver them. He told them to come to the Temple, the House of God and there God was going to "catch them away." There they waited to be "raptured away" by the God of Israel. Read and see their fate as narrated by Josephus:

"A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get up upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now, there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose upon the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now, a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such deliverance.

Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend, nor give credit, to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation; but like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them."

Josephus then gave a list of many supernatural signs that God gave Israel, which they twisted to their own destruction. It is interesting to note those who were deceived into thinking God was going to rapture them were burned in their "House of God" which was full of their riches. Josephus writes:

"They also burnt down the treasury-chambers, in which was immense quantities of money, and an immense number of garments, and other precious goods, there reposited; and, to all in a few words, there it was that the entire riches of the Jews were heaped up together, while the rich people had there built themselves chambers, (to contain such furniture). Their riches and their bodies were burned to ashes and blown away by the wind. I suppose the ashes of their bodies being blown away by the wind could qualify for the term "rapture," or "caught up to meet the Lord in the air," but I don't think those who believe in a "any day now rapture" have this in mind. Who knows, perhaps the escapist mentality of today will meet the same fate. The church is certainly the richest institution materially in the entire world and there are certainly many prophets in the land predicting a "rapture" from the tribulations that are to come upon the world. It has used may trickeries to get people to put their money into the church. I see great similarities between the spiritual state of Israel at the end of its age and the present time which many people seem to feel is the end of the "church age." The key question seems to be the ability to read the signs. The majority of the Jews read the signs wrong, which produced their destruction. There was a small group who read them right. They escaped the destruction and were allowed to enter into a new period of time. The Old had indeed, passed away. They were allowed to make that transition from law to grace. They were the ones who God would use to begin the process of setting up His True kingdom. They left Israel behind and went to the Gentiles. They went to a place named Pella in Syria. They were believers in the Messiah. The above mentioned tape series tells how they escaped.

I am so excited about the things our Father is unveiling for us. We should be grateful to be alive in such a day as this. Truly, we can be messengers of glad tidings. While "church" clings to its buildings, land, and material wealth, you are free to give to the world your spiritual riches in Christ Jesus. Rejoice, ye new heavens and earth!