Urgency

[rosered]

  Bro James ,
I am so glad you brought this up ! Thank you  for an opportunity to  speak freely .

This was always my own greatest fears  while serving an ET church  or any''church ''  with the right motive of the heart , you can be  set free

How my own  nagging  and tormenting thoughts were ''captive '' to FEAR  in the  false churches[  Babylon  the harlot of the earth and all her daughters ]  captivity    and  death   holding captive and be cast into punishment forever /age .

    Thinking  the only true Church is the BODY OF CHRIST  it is the only living  to GOD  in the whole earth and  true witness

The Holy Spirit makes you think differently , when you listen  and careful how you hear  His Voice .

  You consider  many scriptures  and when they ''quicken ''  your feel the leaping of faith[our  holy substance ]  rise up  in power over death / stinking thinking .

  The scriptures  describe  , the kingdom of heaven  as , peace and joy and the Holy Spirit [Romans 14 ]  our first major clue of being in Gods good graces  and eating  of  the Body of Christ [ or the tree of Life ]  it is more than just eating  because what is faith without the works of faith in what the LORD has provided for us  a way of escape.......... that was never given to those whom were under the old covenant of knowledge of good and evil  ,
  there is none that are righteous there is none whom understands  , ironically   this applies to us all even in this time  , still pressing our way into the tree of life  , that ONLY JESUS / the flaming Sword protecting the way  to the tree of Life  to grant  access to eternal life though Himself     

  that is being obedient to   the  VOICE OF THE WORD/Lord Jesus Christ  and as sheep we do follow ...  the age of law tree of knowledge of good and evil   has many tutors and teachers   we get to hear  but they lead us to Christ  ,

only when we  choose to do   the good  required and not do  the  evil  ... you will not   advance any farther  if you do the evil  , but if you are faithful in a few things the Lord will give you more power of the Holy Spirit over many other things  when you obey  His  commandments  , love   your enemies  etc pray for them etc [ Matt5 ]  some basic rules and standards   to obtain ,

  Heavenly realms of thoughts   while  still living in a mortal body , by being in the grace of God  that age  that was to come , that Jesus set in motion by HIS CROSS /the perfect sacrifice of GOD , there is no other sacrifice to   enter  the glory of the LORD  , it is a done  deal  , you can only  obtain this age  , because of what the FATHER   did by proving  His love for the world  and it has continued forth ''forever as  an open invitation ''   for anyone to enter though the LORD JESUS CHRIST , but it has chastisements and rules to follow  and rebukes  as well as rewards  ,  the fulness of Christ [anointing of the Holy Spirit is to be  just  like Him ] No one is above His master / Lord .GOD THE FATHER chose to  have all the fullness dwell till the time of the end
   


It is being hated by the word  and dead to it  ,but ALIVE IN CHRIST  eph 2 ;7 "eternal  riches] , or being tempted by the worldly pleasures [temporary riches ] and being  dead to God   we cannot serve two masters'Lords  , you will love one and hate the other , it is written

Here is the hardest part  to do  and the easiest part to    understand  for  to grasp  ,  the whole LAW IS TO LOVE   God and everything GOD made , all people  all the time ....... especially the ones giving you tons of troubles  in your life ...

Here is the kicker , we are so weak  in flesh and faith to overcome ...  If YOU BREAK ANY ONE LAW , YOU BROKE THEM ALL !!!
This is a setting up for total failure  of doing anything in your own strength and power  over the Body of Death ..
  proving to me the test can only be won  when GOD IS FIRST AND FOREMOST    IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and doing the works of faith for you , that need for Him to go beyond  anything else is impossible  and only fooling yourselves .. there is none righteous no not ONE!   Romans 3 None is righteous, no, not one;
11     no one understands;
    no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
    no one does good,
    not even one."

none of   us have salvation  of our own selves it can only be  though  faith in the  Lord Jesus Christ  and clinging to Him for every thought and need and  desire ,,, we become worthless to Gods use when we  break the law of LOVE
Romans 13:8-10  (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

This is exactly what ''troubles ''  and torture I am just now coming out of for over a year now ........... and have failed the test , in my own  abilities  to obtain  , MERCY ON ALL  is all I scream out to GOD     ......  Paul was worried about being disqualified  as well  , and  feel his pain big time ...  because LOVE  is the only thing that matters to GOD   , The very best we can do is ask God to Love like He loves  and give ourselves  also as an offering to love the most unlovable  at times  , as we all become to one another  and FORGIVE above all else , unless you want to stay in the wrong ... He will Not cast us off forever Lam 3 Jeremiah's Hope
...30Let him offer his cheek to the one who would strike him; let him be filled with reproach. 31For the Lord will not cast us off forever. 32Even if He causes grief, He will show compassion according to His abundant loving devotion....
I DO ALSO BELIEVE  some will be ashamed of their nakedness and filthy rags   in the day the WORD JUDGES RIGHTEOUSLY For those not knowing or chosen out of the world    , they are also given the free gift of eternal life , because GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSON    EVER ........ and CHRIST DIED FOR ALL  , LOVING THE WORLD HE created for His  Glory and ONLY GOD WILL BE EXALTED in  THAT DAY 

John 12 Belief and Unbelief
...47As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it....

That powerful truth , A LIVING WORD ''come to save the  world ''! with the sacrifice of Himself , for me as I understand it  now , it is  those Alive in Christ now  that will never see death  and those whom died  the same death  His cross , because they did not love their lives  in the worldly pleasures [rise  first ]  He did are already risen   the moment they are released from their mortal body of death [flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God .... 

When I read their souls are under  the alter  in Revelation 6:9-11 , I see the symbolism  of  the predestined by God  before the foundation of the world began  , they had the Christ  anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT moving  in  them  as the chosen ones that lives were set for the WORD OF GOD to remain true to itself , those are apart of the great white throne judgment seat  in heaven  already granted  ,  when we get to the part in the bible when the disciples were arguing where they would   want to sit   

  Jesus told them  mark  10  , you have to come as a little child  able to learn of Him  , such are the kingdom of heaven and   this important clue

37They answered, "Grant that one of us may sit at Your right hand and the other at Your left in Your glory."

38"You do not know what you are asking," Jesus replied. "Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?"

39"We can," the brothers answered.

"You will drink the cup that I drink," Jesus said, "and you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo. 40But to sit at My right or left is not Mine to grant. These seats belong to those for whom they have been prepared."


What God has ordained cannot nor will ever fail ......... it was already predestined before the world/ages  began even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy ... In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, ... own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began     

  we did not chose God but God chose us to learn of Him  for  His glory , and have now what many could only hope to know and have , but God will give everyone the same  gift of Light and knowledge of God , because He does not   HATE  His creation ,only the evil  that Paul claims was dwelling in him and had no power over  , but was aware of overcoming him ,  this evil  and asking for Gods grace to  reign , showing His faith and Hope  was alive  and LOVE would be able to conquer  the sin  in him as everyone  else reading  his  witness could also relate to  when made aware  .

Love overcomes the world though Jesus Christ , our   way of escape , God made for those whom ask Him  . He is the Way and Truth and the Life ......  everything God says is TRUTH ..

for me the age of grace is without end .... none will prevail without Gods  good  grace and favor ....

until the final complete and perfect  LOVE by grace is made known to all .. 

I  think of it as  a waking up out of a  long sleep  ,  they are like   the dead and unaware of their surroundings , do not know what is going on at all ,  , because the Light is shining so brightly  and the  voices are  loudly   celebrating  , who can  sleep  in all of  that ? being allowed to join in the celebration at long last . the first shall be last and the last shall be first , the harlots and tax collectors will enter the kingdom of God before  the religious spirits will , their  beating the  fellow  servers  and  opinions  did not save them till the end , when God will be all in all ........  because everyone served God  in one way or the other , proving the TRUTH  is a true and Holy Witness .    How can iniquity abound and yet grace abounds the more ?    how can   lawlessness  regin  and the love of many grow cold without  those captive  to do its   work  of evil that God allowed  to happen on purpose

To make the truth the TRUTH   , We are to learn to HATE EVIL in the earth and how many will realize just how much evil  had that  hold on them !!  as if they are  immune  to it ??! no  way God turns some over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so in the DAY OF THE LORD their spirits are saved  and not lost any longer .

Would you not want the same  salvation    for yourselves  and your own family ,  whom you love no matter how much  they have put you though ?     or more so how much  they have put the Lord Jesus Christ though , tasting death for every man , that LOVE of God  has covered a multitude of sin  throughout the ages  by  the grace of God .  and if the gift is really a gift  , and has no  other  attachments , would not the HOLY SPIRIT give that good and perfect gift to every knee bowing before it  in a thankful and  very aware  moment  of celebration of a new Life , For all that is lost has been found in Jesus Christ   the very perfect   work of LOVE  , Whom GOD IS .

I hate how long these posts  get , I am so sorry , I am so long winded ... :sigh:

Lots of interesting discussion :)

marie especially as it's kind of your thing as you've talked of a coming 500 year period based on your studies, but anyone else that may want to chime in of course.   I realize not all believe there's any type of punishment/ongoing correction in the next age.  I do, although i'm certainly not sure what it looks like or how long it is.  i do think it's different for everyone, as some for instance who have never heard, yet have a tender ready heart, I believe will almost immediately recognize and accept Jesus for Who He is and kneel and confess.  Others...

Anyway, just the past couple of days I've been thinking about the scripture that is used as one of the main "guns" by ET against UR - and I admit, even for UR believers it can pose a bit of a challenge.  I know I've struggled over it.    The scripture is Matthew 25:46, which reads in the KJV "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."  The ET argument is, the duration is the same for both - FOREVER/ETERNAL, so that means since the saved have eternal life, then it's everlasting torment to the unsaved.    Of course a more literal rendering is "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' 

So the question/suggestion - this verse is not talking about "eternity/forever" at all, but rather about an age, a specific period of time that ends and then next things occur.  I.e., that the next age (Marie I've seen you suggest 500 years based on your studies) will be a time when those unbelieving will be brought to belief through whatever means God has chosen (kolasin aionion), while the believers/saved/those called "righteous" in the scriptures [HIS righteousness bestowed through grace to those believing], will spend that time in "life" (whatever God has chosen that to be as well). 

  So again, the duration is indeed the same, but it's not talking yet about "eternity", so there's no ET "proof" or real conflict.   More so that then, when that age is up, the next things happen..immortality, consummation, All in All, etc.  >>>  Eph 2:7 "so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."

[rosered]

It is the ages    to me where  our  GOD of grace  has shown mercy and  favor , we see this is in the WORD all the time .

  I see the evil part being separated by God in everyone [Hebrews 4 ]  and Because God is Love and a consuming  fire  also very descriptive  in His own nature , we also are   given  the HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE baptism  , everyone will be given it   because God is no respecter of person     , the fire burns in jealousy  over us  , His children  , His own creation and the  thing is
  descriptive of   a burning in our hearts  [ to me each lake of fire , not an ocean   or sea  of fire , but a lake as to the   individual    in whom God sets the separation   in .

The division Jesus describes in Luke 12    within our own household  , many  under the old law are the in laws ,AS RULERS  over the body , where good and evil work  within  us and they are divided against each other  , love and hate  , good and evil and  life and death  and many parallels   and duality    working in us all , till  the good work remains   and the evil is done way with in Christ  overcoming the world /ages     and seated on the throne of our hearts  ruling and  reigning  supreme  and preeminent

conquering all the evil forces that tempt  us and lusty desires   of pride of life  , as if we are better off than anyone else is .
  Paul said he was no better off than anyone else  and being made a spectacle for all to see .

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

over our lives   to  me ......... satan the adversary to JESUS CHRIST  and  is antichrist  and is a spirit  of prideful rulership over our hearts  when we are respecter of persons  , the self righteousness  we all must examine ourselves and see if we are truly in the faith  and the workings of the Holy Spirit   and fire    and refiners fire for sure  , burning off the dross , that useless and worthless   filth clinging to the  stones of fire . 
2 Corinthians 2:14
But thanks be to God, who always leads us triumphantly as captives in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of Him.

  The sweet smelling  flavor of Gods grace  and covering on  the sin

Ephesians 3:10
His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,
  that is why no man should rule over   you ...especially the man of sin !!! being taught of God  though His Holy Spirit and fire , the fire is good for the Holy ones but bad for the  sin /evil that dwells in us  all  [GOD IS FAIR THAT WAY ]   thus the need for the new heavens and earth  that we are partakers of  even partaking of  this heavenly gift though the Holy SPIRIT  in the here and now  to some degrees  By the grace of God and seeing Jesus as our  LORD !!   too many get hung up on theories and doctrines and schemes  that keeps them stuck   in captivity    to that   kind  of thinking and sadly   to their harm  .
Ephesians 4:8
This is why it says: "When He ascended on high, He led captives away, and gave gifts to men."

I see this as the power of His cross !  :banana:    death could never hold Him , just those 3 days  while in the heart of the earth  and reconciling   the world /ages to   the Father .. because to me I see the scriptures as truth in the sense  of this ..  JESUS CHRIST IS fulfilling  all the law .........
  this could not be any clearer to me as    HE SPOKE THEM   OUT LOUD! for us to hear also   

Matthew 5:17-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
I see this age of grace  coming to those whom obey His words  and I have not  done  them and it has been brewing for over a year  now  , as death had a hold of me and  could not speak nor hear , but the fire was burning  hot and  heavy till  just now a breakthrough  and a cold cup of water in Jesus name  come to  comfort  in the most strange of ways .  Gods grace comes when it comes  to make you aware , comfort and heal till you pay that last penny .
  What better way to learn but though personal experiences ?  How may times have we got caught up  in our own words judging us a liar ? for me many times   and failed the test  of TRUTH  and stumbled  in one point  and broke them all and become scattered in thoughts and confusion  as to why Lord ? why do I always fail you ?  can I come clean search me out and if there be any  unclean thing  please remove it with your fire of  jealous love , because you know I love you    , we are to confess our sins before one another and God is faithful to forgive us  ,  everyone will confess their sins , even if it is the last hour when the trial  comes to us  and judged for the quick and righteous work of Jesus Christ .
Colossians 1:16
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.


I do believe even the evil  can and does serve Gods purpose  even now , How else are we going to learn to hate it  unless we experience its works ?   If it be in others or found   also in ourselves  rising up ?
Colossians 2:10
And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

For me , this is a fact we all  find ourselves  facing   in many ways and times  , over and over till we get it .....
  for Him or against Him we  cannot lie against the truth

only bitterness and anger  comes from failing the Lord our desire is   this  for real
1 Timothy 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 

     keep praying  there are many messengers of satan and thorns in the flesh , painful  to endure , but there is nothing like being rejected of the  LORD  and we do not wish that on our worst enemy .........

[rosered]

I believe after death is not the end of learning for anyone, "saved" or "unsaved," I don't think any punishment is imposed by God but is instead a result of cause and effect and shedding our "filthy garments," and any difficulty in the end will be seen looking back as necessary and I can imagine even being graceful for it, though at the time it will be seen as anguish by a self centered or unloving person.

But I think the Bible is mostly silent on after death matters, on purpose, because our purpose on earth is not to sit around waiting for the after life, but to live here and now in LOVE, and I believe Jesus's message is for us to do it NOW on earth, and that is the urgency. It's not to save ourselves from hell, it's to live a life following Christ now to help others around us and further along the kingdom of heaven on earth.

I believe a lot of these verses need to be taken into context, in that Jesus spoke these words to Jews in a specific time and place. They were still in the age of law, so the next age was the one we are currently in, the age of grace, and the punishment of THIS age is that those unbelieving do not have a part of the grace and "heaven" NOW, the peace that surpasses all understanding NOW when we trust in God and allow the HS in our hearts and emulate Jesus.

We can look around and see that in this age, some are being perfected in LOVE and for me that shows the pattern that will happen for all.

But this doesn't make it easier. I'm struggling with my mom's suffering horrific illness, MusicLover is suffering with health problems and feeling oppresssed, Rose spoke of coming out of a baptism of sorts where she was suffering. We look BACK and see the purpose of God chastising those he loves, but in the moment it feels a lot more like "my God, why have you forsaken me?"

:girlheart:  That is what I have been trying to say!!!!!!!!!!!! 

   :HeartThrob:   We were typing and posting at the same time  :dsunny:

so many clouds of witnesses !!   Gods judgments are in the earth[ there are scriptures  of this  very thing ] , our  earthen bodies ?     those that have everything are still not content  ! they want more need more got to  be  forceful  and hatful  to obtain more  and more and yet it is never enough   for the  the curse of old adam  ,  the world cannot fill the void , only GOD can and will and  does

  the abundant life is in the peace and joy and Love of God though Christ ...

[rosered]

One more thing,

I now think of these trials as exercise to strengthen our spirit or soul.

When we are weak, building up strength is hard and muscles hurt, we get tired, we want to give up.

But after continually going through the fire/going through trial/exercising our spiritual muscles, it will become easy and then our job is to help others and lift them up.

Jesus is our trainer, he helps us, shows us the way, leads us, lightens the load for us sometimes, but allows more of a challenge when we knows we can do it.

Now we need Jesus, but I believe he wants us to eventually be like him, in which case our job would be what his job was, to help those needing help.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

In the next line it says whatever we ask through him will be granted, so he's there for us as help and support always.

1 John 3:16
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers

John 15:12
"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

Jesus wants us to emulate him. To eventually be like him. He is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE.

  Same message of keeping our hope alive as more of   HIM is given by grace , what a blessing  , He has blessed us all to know  and do  in His Holy name .... 
His WORD will not return to Him void  , but with   real  purpose .... :dsunny:     :HeartThrob:

     

[marie glen]

I also think there's urgency because the commission I think is one which is from the time He gave it, until very end of Judgment Day (imo, age). And the danger of actually rebelling and never being reconciled is a true possibility.

It's all psychological, I think. If we read how Jesus was healing poor sick folks, and the Pharisees said, "His power comes from the evil one".. - it's a clue, as to what the unable to be forgiven sin is.. a cold hardness of heart that actually hates God. All just my opinion or ruminating, of course. That ultimately perhaps, the lof is death itself, where all would go if not for God's gracious intervention (yet a journey all must take, this learning of good from evil).

It seems to me like part of the lesson is the very seriousness of the matter! That it's God's Way or no way. Life or death. Hence the strict parenting of the Old Testament, the seriousness of national judgments, and scriptures like the smoke of destruction will rise up for ever and ever (age to age) (never forgotten?) ..."they will look upon the dead bodies and be abhorred.." That the way/road other than His, can only ever be tribulation and apocalypse (ruin, destruction).

This doesn't take away from HIS goodness, love and mercy.. He is simply the wisest of teachers and parent. But it's a very real and urgent commission and message! He is life and He has to be on the throne for there to be "life".

And all the while.. if Jesus be lifted up from the Earth He will draw all to Himself.. for God, is the savior of all.. i still see / imagine a 'time' when all in heaven and earth will be utterly silent around or before His throne in stunned awe.. then of course rise up in a crescendo of praise, glory and thanksgiving.. (because Perfect cannot lose anything.)

I'm sorry I haven't had time to read the rest of the thread :( it looks like a very nice conversation. :gsmile: So good to see sister Rosie on here! ..and the Lord bless GiL..

PS -

Matthew 9:36-37 New King James Version (NKJV)

36 But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them, because they were [a]weary and scattered, like sheep having no shepherd. 37 Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few.."

(also)Urgency to relieve the people's hardships due to being sheep with no shepherd..

[jugghead]

One thing that has been brought up that IMO, is a legitimate and pertinent question;  "if there's no hell, why the urgency or need to believe on Jesus in this lifetime"?  "Why did the apostles live lives that ended in martyrdom, if there's no urgency to know Jesus now"?

I acknowledge;

1) some believe there is no hell
2) some believe hell is a made up word (me  :laugh:)
3) some believe "now" is "hell", i.e., consequences of this life
4) many believe hell/damnation is forever and inescapable
5) some believe "hell" completely annihilates forever
6) many etceteras

Disclaimer - I do not believe in a works based salvation (rather, it's a free gift, including the faith to believe).  However, I do believe we are responsible for responding to and living in obedience to what we have been given and are led to do, exercising our faith through trust and choice.  Also, that we are given the word of reconciliation "be ye reconciled to God!", and "how can they believe in Him whom they have not heard?".   


That said, (even though I don't personally like the word itself) what if there is a sort of "hell" that is to be avoided though belief on Jesus as Savior?  In other words, what if the temporary correction/punishment Jesus talked about, is worth the urgency of responding affirmatively to His call in this life if/when it is given;  and the faith provided by Him to be acted upon/received instead of rejected/ignored?   

John 3:36 YLT  he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

I Thes. 1:10 NIV  and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

A few of things I recall; 

1. (Member/Moderator) Cardinal talking about revelation she has about correction/discipline in the next age for those who have done certain things that haven't been corrected in this life.

2. Also, I recall an account on Lighthouse.org about a near death experience, where it was reported having observed those in a sort of "hellish place", being disciplined, working through things, coming to a place of finally fully looking to Jesus.

3. J. Preston Eby, in his Savior of the World/Kingdom series on TM, talking about man's disobedience, and how that no matter how long it takes in the next age(s) that God will break that stubborn will, until all have knelt in obedience before the cross of Christ.  He says the Kingdom of God is not (paraphrased) a walk in the park/something to be considered lightly, but that submitting to Christ as Savior and following Jesus as Lord (of course, only as He empowers, not in our own flesh/works) - obedience/looking to Him - is a serious and "bloody" (His blood) proposition.

In other words, maybe there is an urgency after all?  That in preaching the gospel, we may actually be helping people avoid a "wrath that remains AND is coming" upon those who don't believe?

Worth discussion?  Blessings.

Further disclaimer;  this is not meant to be a word of condemnation or pushing a Law or works based effort to salvation.  But rather, one of perhaps reconciling the conflict between "should we share the gospel", and if so, why;  as well as, "universalists say everyone's going to be saved anyway, so what's the point in worrying about it"?  Maybe it's not just peaches and cream for everyone, i.e., "some will receive many stripes"....    Understand what I'm getting at?  Please discuss/explore.

I myself prefer your long version and I also agree with you on point #2, so here is my two cents

"fear of the unknown" is the darkness (Sheol) in which the mind of man can go, for it is the nature of man to do so

"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (sheol), behold, thou art there. (Psalms 139:8)

we know that there are things that "are" unknown, but do we reside in His Spirit of hope in the words "there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed" AND have we entered into His rest, KNOWING that all will be revealed (either in this age or the age to come)?

Do we wait upon the Lord, knowing that even though we may not know something now ... we will know it?

Do we create our own "urgency", the urgency of there being "a time limit" to know?

It is my belief that the "urgency" of knowing Jesus as our Savior, is to save us from creating that "time limit" in our own mind, because is that not part of the foundation upon which ET is based ... that there is "a time limit"?

And if a young believer who believes in God (because God revealed Himself to them) creates that time limit in the mind, creates that seed and plants it in their heart, (or was given it) they can easily be swayed to believe in ET.

To be saved from the wrath to come, in which the original meaning of the word "wrath" is desire ... understood as "to be saved from the desire to come", would not the urgency be: to be saved from "the desire" to create that time limit?

When the nature of man puts a time limit on this physical life, that in itself will cause the "fear of death" to grow in our hearts

And that the "urgency" to know Christ is to keep that spirit ... the spirit of the fear of death from coming alive and taking over, for is it not that "strong man" that drives the urgency "to hurry up and do something"?

For me, to enter into His rest is to KNOW there is no urgency to know except one, the urgency to know HOW MUCH HE LOVES US  and by that all other things will be revealed in their proper time, either in this time(age) to reinforce how much He loves us while our physically body is alive OR in the time(age) to come after the death of our physical body.

Absent from the body, present with the Lord which I believe will be the full revealing "OF" how much He loves us. And the consequence of that sin of "not knowing" how much He loved us while we were in this physical body is to realize how our physical life was wasted on not reinforcing the knowledge of "how much He loves us".

Focus on the things above "HOW MUCH HE LOVES US" not on the things below "the fear of death and a time limit of this physical life"

again, my  :2c:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:   yes,LOVE IS PATIENT :2c:

[sheila]

LUKE8;16Noonelights alamp and puts it under a bed.Instead,he puts it on a stand,so that those who come in can see the light.

FOR THERE IS NOTHING HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BE DISCLOSED,AND NOTHING CONCEALED THAT WILL NOT BE KNOWN

OR BROUGHT OUT INTO THE OPEN.  Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has[love?/fear?truth?] will be given more

  Whoever has[Love fear,truth?]will be given more. Whoever does not have,even what he thinks he has...will be taken from him.


Listen..the ones He deals with on this side He expects more from..because He called us to be lights. Therefore we get more stripes

[discipline] than the children He is not directly dealing with at this time. Wrong attitudes and behavior He will not let slide..Hewill

correct and gives us attitude adjustments

Now Israel was supposed to be a light unto the nations......and when God sent Jesus to adjust wrong attitudes..they would not listen

put to death Jesus and those who did listen. They thought they would continue with their own'form of worship"andrecieved

many stripes...and it was taken away from them.If the light that be inyou be darkness


Christendom is in the same situation...as are any of us called on this side.HIS NAME IS INVOLVED..His character,His dignity

His glory.People are drawn to light,but if the church be darkness.

as far as I can see those describedin2Timothych 3 Lovers of themselves,loversofmoney,boastful,proud,abusive,disobedient

to their parents[call no man your Father but God,Wisdom your Mother]ungrateful,unholy,withoutlove,unforgiving,slanderous

withoutself-control,brutal,not lovers of good,treacherous,rash,conceited,lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of GOD.....

HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENYING IT'S POWER..have nothing to do with them. THAT'S THE OVERCOME CHURCH

the Lamb that speaks like adragon...that's the one that gets more stripes

the URGENCY IS....'COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE"..it was in Jesus day..and it is in ours.

   READ AND LISTEN TO THE PARABLE OF THE DEBTORS

       

[sheila]

LUKE 16;8My Master is taking away my job........the Master commended the dishonest manager...........for the people

are wiser in dealing with their own kind thanthe people of the Light.

I tell you..we better be as wise as the serpent,yet innocent as doves. :2c:

[jugghead]

Amen Sheila  :iagree: :banana: :thumbsup: :cloud9: :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 

  I agree sister !!   


The debtor ......LUKE 16   a  favorite  passage , thanks for the reminder !!   :dsunny:

[marie glen]

Amen! I love how Revelation says "Come to the waters.. who so ever is thirsty, let them come and drink". It doesn't say let the perfect come and drink.. (lol, anyone who thinks they're perfect is likely far from it! So that would be a meaningless invitation.

What i mean is it's the drinking the water that saves.. that transforms.

His yoke is easy.. His burden is light! (Who wouldn't want to come to the waters!)

The Way is simply an abiding on the vine.. the sap., the oil.. He is the potter, we the clay.. o let me be a vessel for you, to pour your love through..

A 'church' is to be a lamp stand.. a bearer of light.. not the light.. but it's the light that's to shine through..

Paul wrote something about "the law is dead to us"..

"perfect love casts out fear" ..did I cuss under my breath? did I get angry? Not a reason to fear! His grace is what transforms. Am I surprised that I'm flawed? :laughing7: It's His grace that makes me want to do better!

Believers need to trust the ability of His Spirit and grace.. to be able to bring people to Jesus- without piling on this, that and the other thing, namely rules.. "don't eat meat sacrificed to idols (demons) and avoid sexual sin". Short and simple. "Moses is preached every day.."

How the world needs THIS message:

Matthew 11:28-30 (Contemporary English Version)

28 If you are tired from carrying heavy burdens, come to me and I will give you rest. 29 Take the yoke I give you. Put it on your shoulders and learn from me. I am gentle and humble, and you will find rest. 30 This yoke is easy to bear, and this burden is light.

[rosered]

 


             Just beautiful  sister Marie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :dsunny:    :HeartThrob:

May the parched place drink of the many waters from above ,  offered so freely as it was given  by our LORD JESUS  CHRIST !!

as we pour ourselves out as a drink offering ... Phillipians 2 ;17 Shining as Stars
...16as you hold forth the word of life, in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.

17But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18So you too should be glad and rejoice with me....

  rejoice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!     I rejoice with you and Paul and all  , already gathered into Christ living body of water   freely .

waters /voices from above   , many whom hear His Voice shall LIVE! !


John 5 The Father and the Son
...24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.


25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself....   :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[sheila]

sin and guilt is such a heavy burden many are carrying.How 'LIGHT" it is for someone  to say'YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN"...God

keeps no account of the injury..and neither do I. To say..God is not counting your sins or weakness of your flesh against you.

[guest6088]

If the above was too long for some of you to read, here's the short version;

do you believe, as a UR person rather than ET believer vested in escaping eternal damnation, that there is a reason to help people avoid the "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "the wrath to come", the kolasin aionion (temporary correction),  by proclaiming Christ as Savior and encouraging others to believe on Him?  I.e. evangelism, being a witness for Him?  Or should we not care, as no one has anything to fear or avoid?    And either way, not just feelings or personal druthers - what's the scriptural support?  Blessings.

A 'reason?' 'Nothing to fear or avoid?'  What!?!?
Sin completely destroys lives.
...It causes all the suffering we see in the world.
Ignoring sin in this life would be like ignoring your child as she plays with a bomb in front of you that could take out the whole neighborhood (for the sins of others affects all of us especially those closest to that person).  "Ah nevermind...she might blow everyone up but she'll goto heaven".
I don't get this crazy thinking: "Hey we're all saved from eternal hell so let's just get through this life as quick as possible...Let's be lazy Christians...keep our heads down and it will all be ok...Christ will save us all when we get there, just leave it to him, he did all the work. Hey it's ok...I know your dying and sick and I'm not going to bother helping you but hey...Here's some good news...Gospel means good news!...Don't worry I'm a Christian Universalist and hell is just a mistranslation!... I know a few fancy Greek words... And theres' a really great afterlife once you get corrected when you die, we all go to heaven eventually."
...Nah, we are to be 'more than conquerors' on earth and help others be so and we have great opportunity here to grow in this plane of duality.  (Experience of evil).  We are to bear fruit.  Paul regarded it as a 'race'.
...Walking about ignoring sin and the suffering it causes for people and doing nothing to lend a hand or help is hardly doing God's will now is it?  Since we all have God's spirit we all come together as one so doing a diservice to someone is doing it to yourself. 
There are still plenty people out there in the world suffering...Indeed, 'hell' is right outside out doors.
It seems clear to me it may be easier to be corrected 'down here' with Christ's acceptance and 'sin coverage' than to meet the wrath of God without a leg to stand on... Imagine...Looking pure love in the eye.  I don't think people really understand how awful that could be for many.  "It is a TERRIBLE thing to fall into the hands of the living God". Heb 10:31. 

...In short it would be like having a cure for all mankind's ills and not using it.

[sheila]

at this very moment..there are many bombs being played with all over the world........He says 'I WILL SETTLE DISPUTES BETWEEN

STRONG NATIONS" There is atime in the scriptures....Dan11;16 and45He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the

beautiflul holy mountain.





     

[sheila]

Hebrews10;32  REMEMER THOSEEARLIER DAYS AFTER YOU HAD RECIEVED THE LIGHT,WHEN YOU STOOD YOUR GROUND IN A

GREAT CONTEST IN THE FACE OF SUFFERING?  SOMETIMES YOU WERE PUBLICLY EXPOSED TO INSULT,SOMETIMES YOU

STOOD SIDE BY SIDE WITH THOSE WHO WERE SO TREATED. YOU SYMPATHIZED WITH THOSE IN PRISON,AND JOYFULLY

ACCEPTED THE CONFISCATION OF YOUR PROPERTY...........


   BECAUSE YOU KNEW...THAT YOU YOURSELVES HAD BETTER AND LASTING POSSESIONS

   SO<DO NOT THROW AWAY YOUR CONFIDENCE,IT WILL BE RICHLY REWARDED

    YOU NEED TO PERSEVERE SO THAT WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD,YOU WILL RECIEVE WHAT HE HAS PROMISED

     FOR,IN JUST A VERY LITTLE WHILE;



   HE WHO IS COMINGWILL COME AND WILL NOT DELAY


  BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE WILL LIVE BY FAITH

AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK I WILL NOT BE PLEASED WITH HIM

   BUT WE ARE NOT OF THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK AND ARE DESTROYED,BUT OF THOSE WHO BELIEVED AND ARE SAVED


   I don't have a certain expectation of fear and judgement..I have different expectations  :girlheart:

[sheila]

 Isaaih 47;12 Keep on then with your majic spells and with your many sorceries,which you have labored at since childhood.

   PERHAPS YOU WILL SUCEED,PERHAPS YOU WILL CAUSE TERROR..

surely they are like stubble..the fire will burn them up. THEY CAN NOT EVEN SAVE THEMSELVES.

[sheila]

LEG-I-ON...............Isaaih 54;17no weapon forged against you will prevail,



    AND YOU WILL REFUTE EVERY TOUGNE THAT ACCUSES YOU.

     Tougnes and authority...... REV 13;2the dragon gave the beast his power....he was given authority over every tribe,people

            TOUGNE and nation[accuser]

    He who can control his tougne is  perfect

Proverbs 10;19 a multiplying of words does not end sin..but he who holds his tougne is wise. :2c:

[sheila]

James ch 3..the tongue. rudder that can turn the whole body...life or death,blessing or cursing.the tongue itself set on fire in hell......

versus the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH TO SAVE  :2c:

[sheila]

Psalms 30;5   For His anger endureth but a moment...in His favour is LIFE .Weeping may endureth for a night

But joy cometh in the morning. :2c:

[sheila]

Mt 13;13-15.......TURN........... John 16;25-33 :2c:

[GodIsLove]

I thought of this good example of why there's still urgency to follow Christ now. I may have shared something similar in the past on Tentmaker.

There are two people going to the same destination. One has a guide (Jesus) to show him the way and to help him along the journey when the travel is challenging.

The other person has no guide, and while this person gets to the same destination in the end, he takes a difficult route, doesn't know the right way, gets lost, is all alone, runs out of gas, and overall the journey takes much longer and is more difficult (insert anything that would make for a terrible journey).

So they both get there anyway would you say that the terrible, wandering, lost journey is fine to endure because "oh well, all's well that ends well"? Or would you prefer to have a guide?

[Dandelion]

Lots of good points, but our urgency, I still believe should be, that God loved us, and gave His life for us, while we were still sinners.

Otherwise, to me, we are still missing the point of who we are and why we are here.  Whether or not there is a significant and difficult transition that lyes ahead, our motivation should be to want to give our life to God. Being human, I realize, this is not always easy or apparent, but nonetheless, it still should be our motivation.

This huge, beyond imagination love has been poured out on us. A life given, by the Son of God, for our forgiveness of sins that Jesus did not commit. How shall we respond to this? What are we made of? What legacy will we leave.....how will we respond when we are before the Almighty God?

1 John 4:

7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

9This is how God's love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us.

20If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And we have this commandment from Him: Whoever loves God must love his brother as well.

D.

[jabcat]

I'm thinking of a difference between after we know Him/believe on Him, and prior to doing so.

Two sides of the same coin?

When we know Him, it's about love and obedience, finding rest in Him - as even His yoke is easy. (Although, even a child in a loving relationship has a healthy respect for potential discipline from their parent).
 
Before we know Him there's the lack of peace, hope, and assurance in this life, as well as the "coming wrath" [judgment, correction] to avoid.   

Seems that might reconcile some of the scriptures of peace and life, with some of them about fear and wrath. 

Col. 3:6 ...the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.

Jn. 3:36 he who is believing in the Son, has life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God does remain upon him.