Father’s will

[MusicLover123]

1 Corinthians 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All died in Adam? Nah, just a figure of speech. Not everyone did
"truly" die in Adam, right? Not everyone is a sinner, only some right?

You know what the irony is? You say with the Judas verse we disregard the plain meaning. Yet when it comes to all being saved, you play gymnastics and blame it all on hyperbole. It is quite easy to call all the verses you disagree with metaphor.


The problem with your answer of believers "knowing all truth" is that I and others listed Scriptures that contradict it.

God is either going to have His will be done or He is not. And I say He is.

Honestly, what are you trying to accomplish here? Are you open to discussion, or are you trying to convince people of your view and nothing else?

[gluecht2]

I will pray RE: the answer to 1Cor 15:22;  Cite a specific scripture that is typical of contradicting that believer's do not know all truth;   I do not believe you understand my point.

[gluecht2]

My first reaction to 1Cor 15:22 is that I am immediately aware of Sin and death passing to Man from Adam (all are in Adam and die in Adam)but can you show me elsewhere in scripture where all are in Christ?  A true question.  Otherwise I will pray for clarity.

[gluecht2]

I would also turn the tables somewhat and ask a similar question of you.  What is your take on Matt 25:46?

[MusicLover123]

This:

46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life ageduring.'

Other translations have chastiment or correction.

Ephesians 1
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
(Technically not speaking of salvation here, but nice to know everything is created out of/by Christ, and not out of nothing, which I have thought for years.)

Colossians 1
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
(There are more verses on being at peace with God, but a good study to put then together.)

Ephesians 3
14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named
(Remember that in the name of Jesus ever knee should bow and tongue confess?)

John 6
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

John 3
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Sorry if I sounded too intense, wanted to try to be a bit more bold.

Here is three I think contradicts us knowing all

1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part

1 Corinthians 13:11-13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

[WhiteWings]

I would also turn the tables somewhat and ask a similar question of you.  What is your take on Matt 25:46?

That's easy to answer.

There is no time in that verse at all.
The correct translation is something similar to: Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's punishment: but the righteous into God's life.



As you might know Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and later translated to Hebrew as modern linguists know and early church fathers wrote.

Olam



Olam - H5769

BDB Definition:

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

1a) ancient time, long time (of past)

1b) (of future)

1b1) for ever, always

1b2) continuous existence, perpetual

1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity



Olam is rooted in the word



Alam - H5956

BDB Definition:

1) to conceal, hide, be hidden, be concealed, be secret

1a) (Qal) secret (participle)

1b) (Niphal)

1b1) to be concealed

1b2) concealed, dissembler (participle)

1c) (Hiphil) to conceal, hide

1d) (Hithpael) to hide oneself





The meaning of the root Alam, is important to fully understand Olam.

Alam clearly has the meaning of an obscure hidden something.





Exod 21:6 Then his master shall bring him to the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or to the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever (olam).

This olam lasts until the slave died. It's was of an obscure duration (olam) because it was unknown how long the slave would live.



Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

...
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever (olam): yet have you brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah was only 3 days in the fish but because he didn't  know when he would get out it was of obscure duration (olam)





When olam is used as a noun it has the meaning of a period of time with an obscure unknown duration, as in the above verses.

When used as an adjective olam refers to an obscure source. A type, not a duration. An adjective describes something or someone.





Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting (olam) God.



That verse isn't about the age of God. It's about His nature. Nobody really fully knows Him because He's hidden and too complex to understand.





The color red. → Red is an noun.
A red car. → Car is a noun and red is an adjective.



The olam. → Olam is a noun.
The olam God → Olam is an adjective and God is a noun.




Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting (olam) punishment: but the righteous into eternal (olam) life.

Punishment and life are both nouns.
Everlasting and eternal are both adjectives.



I'm fully aware the Greek NT reads aionios and not olam, but the Aramaic NT reads olam.  And in the LXX olam is translated as aionios. Click



So the correct translation is:

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's punishment:
but the righteous into God's life.



A more literal translation would have something like 'obscure source' but because we know the source is God, I've used God. So Matt 25:46 doesn't mention any duration.

[WhiteWings]

My first reaction to 1Cor 15:22 is that I am immediately aware of Sin and death passing to Man from Adam (all are in Adam and die in Adam)but can you show me elsewhere in scripture where all are in Christ?  A true question.  Otherwise I will pray for clarity.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

So your view is that the verse is about two groups?
A 100% group that's in Adam and, let's say, a 10% group that's in Christ?

This and surrounding verses are about the success of Christ. He came with a plan/task. Undo the mess that started in the Garden.

The whole chapter is a praising Christ and then suddenly 1Cor 15:22 means: Adam caused 100% to die and Christ managed to redeem about 10% of them?

I'm not a close follower of this forum anymore, but I did some speed reading on your views.
You seem to love the plain meaning of a verse if it supports your view. If it doesn't then it's no longer literal.
You take the last approach with this verse.
In a single verse it states 100% dies and 100% are made alive.
The only fair approach is that one makes a choice and sticks to it. Take all verses 100% literal and no nagging about context. Or use context for all verses. No cherry picking and changing strategy 10 times a day.

I'm all for context. And so is the HS who inspired Scripture. He said there should be always two or three witnesses. That means that every interpretation is repeated somewhere else in Scripture.


But no, you questions aren't odd or weird. In fact they are extremely common here. We had a lot of attackers here with the same questions. In fact many here once believed in hell as you do.

Especially the Matthew verse you posted is a very common attack. Usually goes like this:  We know that the duration for the wicked and blessed are the same. We also know heaven is eternal. So that's why hell is eternal. But there isn't time in that verse. And if we take the Greek it doesn't have to mean equal time. This is an example you quickly change strategy. Time is time, but all isn't all.

Stating it's about hell, clearly shows Scripture is vastly misunderstood. It shows the reader likely never read the OT or knows anything about the Temple. Doesn't even know about patterns.
The fire is the ultimate proof of salvation for all, not debunking it.
You may want to read this and learn how great the Father is. How successful the Son is/was. Really, they are always 777 steps ahead of satan. And no satan didn't win the battle for souls...

God views us as gold. Some fine gold, other golds needs some refining.  Refining does require fire. Refining does require brimstone/sulfur. Refining does require smoke going up. Refining does require 'tormenting'. Ain't that great? I've just proven salvation of all by using  Revelation 14:10-11 that's usually seen as a great weapon to destroy UR. The refining is all over the NT

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html

Use your free will to stay in the dark or switch on the light  :2c:

[GodIsLove]

Re: the woman with the blood issue touching Jesus's garment:

She was instantly healed, she wasn't instantly revealed all truth.

[GodIsLove]

Also re: believers revealed all truth:

Have you spent time around other denominations of Christianity?

They all say Jesus is lord so they must have the HS right?

So why do they all differ so much in their doctrine and beliefs?

Edit: all of the Pentecostals, Baptists, Catholics and Lutherans I am friends with have what they feel is biblical support/bible passages or verses that support their belief.

[GodIsLove]

And re: private revelation:

Most of us have believed in hell in the past.

Read Roger Tutt's bio for an excellent example of this.

I personally had a "saved" spiritual experience (though I don't call it that) where I was changed after.

Then a few years later after being tormented by the idea of hell, I had a spiritual experience where I received revelation that there is no hell.

Many have similar experiences, either sudden or gradual, where the HS led is to this belief.

I've slowly over time come to know other spiritual truths that I didn't have before. I'm growing in faith, hope and love. It's a process, and God is not a genie.

[sheila]

Isaaih 46;10 I make known the end from the beginning,from ancient times what is still to come.



I SAY.."MY PURPOSE WILL STAND,AND I WILL DO ALL THAT I PLEASE



v 12LISTEN TO ME YE STUBBORN HEARTED,YOU WHO ARE FAR FROM RIGHTEOUSNESS

I AM BRINGING MY SALVATION NEAR,IT IS NOT FAR AWAY,AND MY SALVATION WILL NOT BE DELAYED

I WILL GRANT SALVATION TO ZION,MY SPLENDOUR TO ISRAEL


  Isaaih 47Go down sit in thedust..virgin daughter of Babylon,sit on the ground without a throne,daughter of the Babylonians

v 3..your nakedness[sin] will be exposed and your shame uncovered.[bound up all men in disobedience]

v5  Sit in silence.......no more will you be called Queen of kingdoms!


I was angry with my people and give them into your hand....and YOU SHOWED THEM NO MERCY

even on the aged..you laid a very heavy yoke


v 8 NOW THEN LISTEN YOU WANTON CREATURE....LOUNGING IN YOUR SECURITY..ANDSAYING TO YOURSELF

'I am,and there is none besides me"


REV 18;4  COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE,SO THAT YOU WILL NOT SHARE IN HER SINS

SO THAT YOU WILL.NOT RECIEVE ANY OF HER PLAGUES..like eternal hellfire/LOF/death/judgement without mercy,sores[spots]

blemishes/doctrines of demons...DEATH MOURNING AND FAMINE...which is quite a contrast to the good news unto all men of

GREAT JOY..the free gift of eternal life and mercy through Jesus Christ and free water of life/bread of life if you drink will

never hunger or thirst again...and free gift of righteousness from God through Jesus Christ.


Look at the new heaven/earth...He will wipe evry tear from thier eyes...NO MORE DEATH MOURNING CRYING PAIN[REV 21]

I  MAKE ALL THINGS NEW 

    REV 21;5 He who was seated on the throne said;  'I AM MAKING EVERYTHING NEW!"Then He said."WRITE THIS WORD DOWN

  FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUSTWORTHY AND TRUE :2c: