When the Year of the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbat of Year 6000

[jabcat]

Do either one of you believe you are posting "in the spirit of IMO, I believe.."?  It looks more like an argument/debate to me, and it's clearly stated that's not the function of these boards.  I'll ask to either pull it into guidelines, argue it out 1:1 by PM or email, or we can just lock the thread.

[marie glen]

Perhaps it is either / or (in our understanding) so we can't set dates!? [Although the date 6000 is likely right? :laughing7: ]

I'm very stubborn, and won't let go of a study until it clearly clicks into place.

This is the first I heard of the idea that the first year of the next shemittah is also the jubilee.

Then next/each  time I study it, prayerfully, and the study seems to lean in one direction or the other (in this case) and each time ends up leaning in the same direction.. then I will go with that in my understanding, to a certain degree. But I am never sure until I sense that clear fitting of puzzle piece to puzzle piece.

So far, I am leaning toward "49 years between Jubilees". And that Jesus reading the scroll of Isaiah, "proclaiming a year of the release of captives" at the beginning of his ministry/advent, was likely a Jubilee year (beginning). I believe that because of the verse and because God is so orderly.. "Have them sit down in groups of 50 or 100" Jesus said..

And the verse in Hosea "after 2 days He will return.."

And how perfectly the shemittah divisions of years - 7, then 7x7 is so perfect also as to the 7th day (7th thousand years) - a day / thousand years of rest.. no fruit harvested that thousand years.. during the millennium

- again! Pointing to UR!

Because if you make a distinction, between fruit harvested and not harvested, then the likely assumption is - there is harvest following the time of non harvest!

:Chinscratch:
        thanks.. i'll have to think about this now.. Oh, and Jubilee - being 5O signifies the Big One!

The "all in all" event!

[marie glen]

p.s. here’s a note, if the Jubilee, the 50th year represents, is metaphor for THE Jubilee, the ultimate Jubilee, when creation itself and all in it is set to liberty.. when, as Rev. 21:1-5 says, all things are made new.. then it’s also true (?) that the 7 year cycle of sevens - each individual 7 represents the 6000 years of man, as your/our brother’s opening post, or title says. Then the 7000 is millennium.. Then Jubilee is declared.. Which was always proclaimed and begun on Day Of Atonement, Israel’s day of collective repentance and reconciliation.

Yet we know “the Judgment” is between the millennium and when “all things are made new/made all in all. But is there a link missing? A puzzle piece.. linking day of Atonement with 500.. If the millennium is represented by the 10 days between Trumpets and Day of Atonement, What then does the 5 days between Day Of Atonement and Tabernacles represent?

So you have 7000. A shemittah.
Large scale - 6000 years of man + the millennium

Is it true civil year begins on Day Of Atonement? So a new year/time begins, and it’s a Jubilee.. after the millennium..

And in order to count Jubilees throughout the millennium and the judgment.. it needs to be via the counting of 50, not 49.. But! This is circular reasoning!? Lol.

...so He writes His gospel in the heavens.. and He declares UR in the Holy Days.. ..(?)

besides the numerous verses..

[trettep]

Do either one of you believe you are posting "in the spirit of IMO, I believe.."?  It looks more like an argument/debate to me, and it's clearly stated that's not the function of these boards.  I'll ask to either pull it into guidelines, argue it out 1:1 by PM or email, or we can just lock the thread.

I'm not arguing from the perspective of contentiousness with anyone here.  I'm just putting forward what the scripture says.  But if you don't think we should counter the lies/misunderstanding then let everyone here know.  I can prove what I'm saying is the Truth.  But if you don't want the Truth to be defended here then just let us know.

Let me show you.  Consider the following:

Lev 25:11  A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. 

Notice above it says in the 50th year you cannot SOW or REAP.  Ok, let's move on:

ev 25:20  And if ye shall say, What shall we eat the seventh year? behold, we shall not sow, nor gather in our increase: 
Lev 25:21  Then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year, and it shall bring forth fruit for three years. 
Lev 25:22  And ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in ye shall eat of the old store. 

Notice above, if the Jubilee was referred to as being AFTER the 49th year then that would make it the 8th year. But we can see that we are not allowed to sow on the Jubilee but we are able to on the 8th year.

I'm trying to show others here how to sort out what looks to many as a contraction of which others users here are fallen into.

Here is the sorting out of the "appearance of contradiction":

49th year (7th year in cycle) - no sowing or reaping.  Have  to sustain off of the 6th year fruits.
49th year (7th month 10th day - Jubilee starts) - no sowing or repeaping.
1st year ("8th year" in Leviticus - Jubilee until ending at 7th month).  - After 7th month - sowing can begin again.  But we have not harvest because we couldn't sow the year before (remember sowing is in the fall).
2nd year ("9th year" in Leviticus) - We now still have fruits from the 6th year but will be able to harvest the fall fruits in this year and eat through fall and winter.

So you see the 50th Jubilee is imposed over the 49/1 years together of the Sabbath Cycles.

That is the TRUTH according to the Scriptures.  This is why Jews together recognize a NEW YEAR in the 7th Month.

[jabcat]

I'll take the time to do this ONE MORE time.

I'm not arguing from the perspective of contentiousness with anyone here.  I'm just putting forward what the scripture says.  But if you don't think we should counter the lies/misunderstanding then let everyone here know.  I can prove what I'm saying is the Truth.  But if you don't want the Truth to be defended here then just let us know.

Most people that post here do so within the guidelines, and are still able to get their points across in a conversational, collegial manner.

if you're not interested in the Truth..Let me show you.  Consider the following.. Notice above.. Ok, let's move on:  Notice above,... So you see .. That is the TRUTH

Once again, your fallacious suggestion that somehow the "Truth" is not wanted here, is unnecessary and missing the point.  Deja vu.  Except for context, I really don't think I even need to say that "of course we're interested in the truth".  I think most people who are cooperative and flexible understand that already.  But again, most people who post here understand there are various interpretations, understandings, things we think we know is the truth today but may be corrected tomorrow, etc.  That's why "IMO" is required.  (Judgment call) this of course excludes the basics of the faith and things clearly stated in the scripture, that aren't really debatable but are in black/red and white.

Interested in truth, yes.  Not interested in a general/overall approach of "know-it-all", "let me teach you", "I am the one with the answer", "here's my lecture for today".  I know at least most of your basic beliefs of the faith are solid and scriptural.  So at this point, I'm honestly less interested in most of your further "truth", as in how you say it.

Your debating partner is no longer active on the boards.  Unless something changes, I will have nothing further to say on this, but the guidelines of posting on the TM forums will be enforced.  I really don't want to ban you permanently, but if you don't get it this time, I will.  I've been told awhile back by another mod that I had been beyond patient up to that point, and here we are again.   

[trettep]

If I preach the Truth and get banned it just means God wants me to bring the message elsewhere. As I tell others, you do what your heart feels you need to do.  Because that is what I'm doing.

[jabcat]

If anyone else has anything further to explore in this thread I'll leave it open.  I know you will do well with it from here.  Thanks.

[marie glen]

The only contradiction, trettep, is if there's an additional year between 49's or not.. I'm afraid, however, for my part (and figuring) has to do with a frame.. and not the Lord's return.. And this thread was useful for that for it seems to me both frames have to fit.. the 49 and the 1000's and that's about all my thoughts on the matter, except for thanks for the two threads trettep we were exchanging in, as I was able to fine tune a couple of things. And to moderator (Jabcat) for his patience.
:gsmile : :Peace2:

[CST]

If anyone else has anything further to explore in this thread I'll leave it open.  I know you will do well with it from here.  Thanks.

I'm not entirely sure that's wise but the direction of this subject is something I find concerning enough to feel the need to weigh in.

In my view, while the tenses used may not rule out us discovering the date of the end in the future and I certainly believe it will become necessary for Jesus to know in the future, a given since He'll certainly know it when it happens, I feel it is disingenuous to suggest that as far as we are concerned it doesn't mean exactly what it says it means. i have several reasons for thinking this.

The first of these reasons is the number of times Jesus actually says across the passages involved such as Matthew 24, 25 and others that we do not know when the end will be. He repeats it so much it's hard not to think He means exactly what He says for all time until it happens when we'll all find out. Dandelion's point is valid here and she has it right. In Johnny English there is a joke you may know but on balance probably don't where there is a fake Archbishop. The Archbishop has a tattoo on his bottom that reads "Jesus is coming, look busy!"

The tattoo is a joke built on cynicism about the end of the world and how humans might respond to it if they knew when it was, ie they can do whatever they till about a week beforehand and then suddenly repent and be saved. We're not meant to know when the end of the world is so as not to affect our attitude through life.

Continuing this point a second reason I have for thinking Jesus means exactly what He says is that He illustrates the point using three parables, I have issues with all three of these parables although it is not pertinent to discus those now when discussing them as the apply in context will suffice.

The first of these parables is the parable of the bridesmaids/virgins. Notice in the parable neither party manages to say awake, both the wise and foolish virgins fall asleep and are somewhat caught unawares by the bridegrooms arrival. But because they prepared ahead of time they are ready to correct their oversight and make the appointment while the foolish bridemaids do not. Neither of these ever know when the bridegroom is coming.

The second parable is the parable of the talents, again it seems pretty clear that the three servants are judged entirely on their management of what they are given while their master is away there is no evidence any of them every know when He will return or expect Him back, if they don't know why do we think we will. The nature of the parables suggests we will remain ignorant as they do.

The third parable is a bit different, it's the parable of the sheep and the goats, it has little to do with when the master will actual return it's all about advocating following the behaviour of the sheep so you will be found, apparently much to your surprise, in His favour when He does. Three parables predicated very much on the ignorance of their characters not on their knowledge very much suggests that we will be just as ignorant when the Lord returns.

But the third reason I am concerned about the idea of our knowledge of when the end will come is my experiences of the Endtimers who tend to be at the forefront of those who advocate it. These people historically tend to be Christian Fundamentalists of the ET persuasion. Their perception of the Endtimes begins with them, in the heart of their self-righteousness, being raptured away to Heaven where they can they pull up the popcorn and watch as God inflicts His torturous wrath on all their wicked enemies who they blame for all the suffering they believe they have injustly but patiently endured for Jesus. These people don't care about the return of Jesus for the sake Jesus, or because they care about the suffering of others. The care only about being rescued from their own suffering which they believe has been inflicted on them by all the abhorrent people who remain and are now being justly punished for it while they get get to enjoy God dispense that justice.

I'm under no such illusions, I'm not self-righteous and am in full awareness and I'm aware that if I live to see the arrival of the beast from the sea I will surely receive its mark. I have no illusions of being any sort of martyr I am not capable of that. But I'm also aware I'm not going to get raputured away from the world beforehand so i can sidestep the choice like these Endtimers do. I'm not under that illusion either.

I reject the notion that we can know the date of the end because no good can come of it, we don't need to know it to live good Christian lives, to serve Jesus, in fact how we serve Jesus can be affected if we do know it. I don't believe we're meant to know the time of the end, the people who tend to advocate that we should and do tend to be the worst type of Christians who care about the end only do so because of their desire to escape the world and not because of any love of God in them. That's my view on this matter, we do not, cannot, know the end and we are not meant to.

[marie glen]

 :iagree: :iagree: tho I do want to understand all of God's Word.. it doesn't scare me.. the 'end' of the story, culmination.. conclusion.. says a lot about the overall... story. And, I want to be able to tell my grand kids any "signs" Jesus spoke of. As I do believe in literal fulfillment.. as long as history is literal that is. It's likely the book of rev. was written after 70 a.d. but in 70 a.d. the Christians heard and heeded what the Lord has said and I've read a few times that none perished in 70 a.d. And since I believe prophecy telescopes with shorter range to longer range, I think those things He said are still beneficial (I wanted to write "useful".. but that was just crazy!)

But even more than that - my grand kids! Is the pattern / frame that I think evidences u.r., which involves some math but not end time dates..

So, CST,  :iagree: it had to happen sooner or later, lol.. :gsmile:

[jabcat]

If anyone else has anything further to explore in this thread I'll leave it open.  I know you will do well with it from here.  Thanks.

I'm not entirely sure that's wise

I wanted to be discrete, but I guess it makes sense to say that  cgaviria and trettep will no longer be active in the thread.  That's why I said "anyone else"... Blessings all.

[CST]

As I do believe in literal fulfillment.. as long as history is literal that is.

As but that's the catch, is it? I see this one of two ways.

First, there is a physical, material world that exists and in which we live. This world is made by God and has a beginning, which is described to some degree in Genesis 1, it will also have an end. My belief is that that 'end' is simply a precuser to that world becoming a new evil free physical world of a slightly different material much less prone to decay.

Second, there is, to some degree or another world, a spiritual world, sometimes I believe this world actually exists and sometimes I think it entirely an allegory to be used to teach and warn us. However, assuming the spiritual world to actually exist I don't believe this world to have a beginning in the same sense as the material world does because the spiritual world, while somehow underlying and connected to the physical world, is ultimately an extension of the nature and character of God and is is some way as eternal and transcendent as He is. Certainly it's relationship with the physical begins with the creation of the physical but it has its beginning in God and is therefore eternal.

To me, no description of the spiritual world can be taken entirely literally because it's like describing things of God that are beyond our comprehension and understanding, our language is not capable of describing the events of the spiritual world but only tries to describe it as best it can. We can tell many descriptions of the spiritual world are not literal because they contradict things we know about the physical world.

This makes understanding the Revelation and other descriptions of the end difficult, we have to determine which things describe the physical world and may well be literal and which describe the spiritual world and won't be. So if the Revelation says 1/3 of the population will die I take that literally. If it says that a massive seven-headed, ten-horned mutant thing will rise up from the sea I suspect we won't see that... it will be a bit obvious never mind the implausibility.

[Patinak]

CST,

I do like your understanding of the physical/spiritual worlds, it makes sense to me the way you put it.

As far as the Revelation and the Second Coming (opening post), I would suggest an article written by Gary Amirault for the Dew Magazine:
https://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew6/D6-TheComingOfChristIn70AD.html

He mentions in the article, the writings of Josephus. These also can all be found on the Tentmaker web site.  "The Wars" have a lot of things that jump out at you correlating to Revelations.

Just a different point of view.
Pat

p.s. GodIsLove, we want you back! (sorry, the P.M. isn't working for me)

[marie glen]

As I do believe in literal fulfillment.. as long as history is literal that is.

So if the Revelation says 1/3 of the population will die I take that literally. If it says that a massive seven-headed, ten-horned mutant thing will rise up from the sea I suspect we won't see that... it will be a bit obvious never mind the implausibility.

     :thumbsup: Now there we have it.. logic. :cloud9: ..One may feel they are being led of the Spirit to read all cross references (there aren't many) to the seven headed mutant.. And possibly find? :dontknow: If most don't care.. does that mean all should be disinterested? ( :laughing7: I'm just venting a little.. over the years, how many times I've heard how thinking about/studying Bible prophecy along with the rest of the Bible, means there's something wrong with you or your faith. :doh: )

Like the rest of the Bible, I think Revelation is fascinating. Especially as the conclusion.. Sometimes I think ppl don't understand the book because they don't see what's around us in today's world, that's just an opinion.. Certainly has nothing to do with anyone's faith or anything like that. And too it's easy to assume one's interest in prophecy is for the sensational, etc. Especially since we see so much of that going on, especially on the world wide web!

And this forum isn't a forum for bible prophecy, so usually I only talk about how I believe the ages after this one are in the Book of Revelation and strongly imply \ support UR/CU. ....and are outlined via the Autumn Holy Days? (imo).

CST,

I do like your understanding of the physical/spiritual worlds, it makes sense to me the way you put it.

As far as the Revelation and the Second Coming (opening post), I would suggest an article written by Gary Amirault for the Dew Magazine:
https://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew6/D6-TheComingOfChristIn70AD.html

He mentions in the article, the writings of Josephus. These also can all be found on the Tentmaker web site.  "The Wars" have a lot of things that jump out at you correlating to Revelations.

Just a different point of view.
Pat

p.s. GodIsLove, we want you back! (sorry, the P.M. isn't working for me)

   Amen! :gimmefive:

[CST]

CST,

I do like your understanding of the physical/spiritual worlds, it makes sense to me the way you put it.

As far as the Revelation and the Second Coming (opening post), I would suggest an article written by Gary Amirault for the Dew Magazine:
https://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew6/D6-TheComingOfChristIn70AD.html

He mentions in the article, the writings of Josephus. These also can all be found on the Tentmaker web site.  "The Wars" have a lot of things that jump out at you correlating to Revelations.

Just a different point of view.
Pat

p.s. GodIsLove, we want you back! (sorry, the P.M. isn't working for me)

:laugh:

I'm glad it makes sense to you, I'm not even sure it makes sense to me. I'm basically convinced of two things:

1. Both forms of reality are extensions of God because He is responsible for them, they have their foundation in Him and couldn't be otherwise.
2. The spiritual world is a special type of extension of God that isn't made like the material world is. Otherwise there would have to be two types of spiritual world and thus two 'types' of spiritual, 'God-like' and 'not God-like', and they would contradict each other.

Thanks for the links Patinak, I am also missing GiL. Hope she's reading so she can see so.

As I do believe in literal fulfillment.. as long as history is literal that is.

So if the Revelation says 1/3 of the population will die I take that literally. If it says that a massive seven-headed, ten-horned mutant thing will rise up from the sea I suspect we won't see that... it will be a bit obvious never mind the implausibility.

     :thumbsup: Now there we have it.. logic. :cloud9: ..One may feel they are being led of the Spirit to read all cross references (there aren't many) to the seven headed mutant.. And possibly find? :dontknow: If most don't care.. does that mean all should be disinterested? ( :laughing7: I'm just venting a little.. over the years, how many times I've heard how thinking about/studying Bible prophecy along with the rest of the Bible, means there's something wrong with you or your faith. :doh: )

Like the rest of the Bible, I think Revelation is fascinating. Especially as the conclusion.. Sometimes I think ppl don't understand the book because they don't see what's around us in today's world, that's just an opinion.. Certainly has nothing to do with anyone's faith or anything like that. And too it's easy to assume one's interest in prophecy is for the sensational, etc. Especially since we see so much of that going on, especially on the world wide web!

And this forum isn't a forum for bible prophecy, so usually I only talk about how I believe the ages after this one are in the Book of Revelation and strongly imply \ support UR/CU. ....and are outlined via the Autumn Holy Days? (imo).

CST,

I do like your understanding of the physical/spiritual worlds, it makes sense to me the way you put it.

As far as the Revelation and the Second Coming (opening post), I would suggest an article written by Gary Amirault for the Dew Magazine:
https://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew6/D6-TheComingOfChristIn70AD.html

He mentions in the article, the writings of Josephus. These also can all be found on the Tentmaker web site.  "The Wars" have a lot of things that jump out at you correlating to Revelations.

Just a different point of view.
Pat

p.s. GodIsLove, we want you back! (sorry, the P.M. isn't working for me)

   Amen! :gimmefive:

There may be more than you think, the Shema and the connected instructions are usurped by receiving the mark of the beast, that's one I know right there. There must be others. But the beast is a strange idea. The Revelation suggests that the Beast from the sea will be around for only a brief period at the end of the world and most of those who survive will serve it. Yet, an awful lot of people seem to serve it and its master the Devil before hand as well the Revelation ande the rest of the Bible also makes this quite clear. But sin and evil are obiquitous and it's very easy to see the beast in whatever you fancy if only you choose to look.

So when you say people don't see what's going on in the world I take it with a major grain of caution. They tend cite the Bible which says in the last days people will become lovers of themselves but that's easy to see if you look for it. The Bible was written in a generation that murdered Jesus to protect their own interests, signs of the end are always there if you want to find them Jesus made this very clear as well. Jesus don't us not to worry about tomorrow, today has worries enough. That should be enough to stop us bothering too much about when the end of the world is going to be. Of course, we are warned because eventually today will become tomorrow and we need to be ready to recognize it when it does. Or else we'll be stuck with yesterday's worries and not notice.

[marie glen]

I totally agree with ignoring all sensationalist theories and thinking and date setting.. all that. There's a whole lot we don't know. (Understatement, lol.)

But what we do know, there's no reason to hide it under a basket or table..

..and just because we understand something, doesn't mean we fear it.
The only thing Revelation and prophecy is, is the culmination and results.. It may very well be trends we see in the world around us.. and we may be able to see these trends like gathering waves.. and waves eventually crest.. I can plainly see the world rejects the knowledge of God.. and their theory of life takes ALOT of faith.. So very many holes and disconnections in it.. a fantastical myth to rival all fantastical myths.. (but likely deeply rooted in the past). And the world clings to it. Today's strong delusion, from today's false prophet/teacher/teaching - which does prophecy. Oh yes. And thus has western civilization once called Christendom fallen away from the faith - these as we know are all bible phrases. Jude 14 in the Contemporary English Version says "ppl will make fun of God". And yes perhaps some throughout the ages have.. but I certainly can see that it is "trending".. like a snowball rolling downhill.. I believe everything the Bible says will come to pass. But we have to know how to read the Bible.  Psalm 110? Says God will break heads.. that may sound shocking to sensitive sensibilities.. but it's likely a figure of speech like we have even today. Not literal.. a righteous anger that says "when I git there I'm breakin' some heads!"

And you know what, that righteous anger of God's is a good thing. Some ppl think it's good to beat, rape, oppress, torture others? ThAt's who should be afraid! A God who doesn't care? Is a milktoast 'god' fashoined after humans. In society these days were taught our empathy should be with the lawbreaker.. even some despots are thought to be revolutionary heroes.

We can't always explain to others any of the Christian life.. the dying to self.. the being risen with Jesus.. and all that it means.. the same with all of God's Word. Some ppl can't see UR, but we plant the seeds anyway.

As for the world and nations, if they have rejected the knowledge of God, it seems likely they will build for theirselves a 'god' a rulership - made up of humans - to have the seat of God, even telling their selves they aRe 'god'/highest power. And will likely in essence endow that rulership (governing body) with so to speak, godlike powers. (Beasts in prophecy are rulers, kingdoms, governing, with the last one having Roman/Greek foundations - iron/bronze, and it was, then wasn't, then it was again.. in yesteryears world/ John's world, it was, very obviously, the Roman Empire).

What could possibly go wrong? Jesus said to watch and pray.. And that is assumed to be a mere concern for one's own skin? It's actually kind of amazing any believer should think that..

"Think on those things that are above" the world is passing away.. And the Kingdom is coming.. When we don't know, but we do surely await and look forward to that kingdom.

"All the ends of Earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all families of the nations will worship.." Ps. 22:27 (When? Is this prophecy fulfilled?)
:Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

Surprised no one mentioned this yet:

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Has - "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world" - happened yet? Opinions?

Php 1:17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

And the Gospel spoken of here, do you think it is the hell based, prosperity/legalistic Christianity that counts? Or the one on God's unfailing love, etc?

[jabcat]

There's discussion about what "the world" refers to.  Preterists insist it means the Roman civilization of the time.  Futurists argue it means the whole inhabited world, that the context of the usage gives the meaning in each instance.

Oikoumene

Oikos  Oikouros
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
oikoumene   
Definition
the inhabited earth
the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
the whole inhabited earth, the world
the inhabitants of the earth, men
the universe, the world

One of the very main explanations of the Gospel IMO;

I Cor. 15   Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you.. For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,  and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures..

[Patinak]

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Probably 20-30 years after Jesus's statement, Paul was making the following statements:

[Col 1:5-6 KJV] 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth:

[Col 1:5-6, 23 KJV] 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth: ... 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

[Rom 10:16-18 KJV] 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Are Jesus and Paul talking about the same thing?  I think so.  I think Paul was writing about the fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy.

[CST]

I totally agree with ignoring all sensationalist theories and thinking and date setting.. all that. There's a whole lot we don't know. (Understatement, lol.)

But what we do know, there's no reason to hide it under a basket or table..

..and just because we understand something, doesn't mean we fear it.
The only thing Revelation and prophecy is, is the culmination and results.. It may very well be trends we see in the world around us.. and we may be able to see these trends like gathering waves.. and waves eventually crest.. I can plainly see the world rejects the knowledge of God.. and their theory of life takes ALOT of faith.. So very many holes and disconnections in it.. a fantastical myth to rival all fantastical myths.. (but likely deeply rooted in the past). And the world clings to it. Today's strong delusion, from today's false prophet/teacher/teaching - which does prophecy. Oh yes. And thus has western civilization once called Christendom fallen away from the faith - these as we know are all bible phrases. Jude 14 in the Contemporary English Version says "ppl will make fun of God". And yes perhaps some throughout the ages have.. but I certainly can see that it is "trending".. like a snowball rolling downhill.. I believe everything the Bible says will come to pass. But we have to know how to read the Bible.  Psalm 110? Says God will break heads.. that may sound shocking to sensitive sensibilities.. but it's likely a figure of speech like we have even today. Not literal.. a righteous anger that says "when I git there I'm breakin' some heads!"

And you know what, that righteous anger of God's is a good thing. Some ppl think it's good to beat, rape, oppress, torture others? ThAt's who should be afraid! A God who doesn't care? Is a milktoast 'god' fashoined after humans. In society these days were taught our empathy should be with the lawbreaker.. even some despots are thought to be revolutionary heroes.

We can't always explain to others any of the Christian life.. the dying to self.. the being risen with Jesus.. and all that it means.. the same with all of God's Word. Some ppl can't see UR, but we plant the seeds anyway.

As for the world and nations, if they have rejected the knowledge of God, it seems likely they will build for theirselves a 'god' a rulership - made up of humans - to have the seat of God, even telling their selves they aRe 'god'/highest power. And will likely in essence endow that rulership (governing body) with so to speak, godlike powers. (Beasts in prophecy are rulers, kingdoms, governing, with the last one having Roman/Greek foundations - iron/bronze, and it was, then wasn't, then it was again.. in yesteryears world/ John's world, it was, very obviously, the Roman Empire).

What could possibly go wrong? Jesus said to watch and pray.. And that is assumed to be a mere concern for one's own skin? It's actually kind of amazing any believer should think that..

"Think on those things that are above" the world is passing away.. And the Kingdom is coming.. When we don't know, but we do surely await and look forward to that kingdom.

"All the ends of Earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all families of the nations will worship.." Ps. 22:27 (When? Is this prophecy fulfilled?)
:Peace2:

How do we know we know anything, I doubt there's one thing we all agree on about any of this?

People have always rejected and mocked God, even in 2 Esdras God expresses His anger about this.

We're taught our empathy should be with the lawbreaker, really? We're a judgemental society that thrives on condemning in order to make us feel better than everyone else and have power over them. Jesus tells us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. That's having empathy with the lawbreaker and that's how mercy works. But no, in general we don't do that. If some says even the slightest thing we object to we harass them and persecute them and drive them away. That about as much empathy with the lawbreaker we actually have.

But what you're taking about at the end there is idolatry and, yes, we do that and have always done that and it's also done so the people who sell the idols can use them to gain power over people and their lives. It's nothing new and it will continue until God ends idolatry like you mention He will by quoting the Psalms.

[GodIsLove]

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Probably 20-30 years after Jesus's statement, Paul was making the following statements:

[Col 1:5-6 KJV] 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth:

[Col 1:5-6, 23 KJV] 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth: ... 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

[Rom 10:16-18 KJV] 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Are Jesus and Paul talking about the same thing?  I think so.  I think Paul was writing about the fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy.

Thanks Pat, for sharing this and sharing Gary's article on the topic. I agree with both. It's been a recent belief of mine that has been building for a while, and it finally has all come together, but it is hard to lay it all out in one concise post, and people are quick to call the idea crazy without exploring it for themselves. I compare it to UR, once you hear it the knee jerk reaction is to reject it, but it makes so many pieces come together, if you continue to look into it prayerfully.

I had to take a break for a while. I will be back here and there I think, but the break helped to clear my thoughts, pray, and also to focus on my immediate life. The internet is good but can suck us away from living and loving.

Thanks Pat and CST and for wanting me back, it means a lot to me. Sometimes we don't realize our connections are meaningful until they are severed and I think that was an important learning lesson for me as well.

[MusicLover123]

Colossians 1
5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God's grace

NIV here has it growing as a verb, unlike the KJV which puts it in past tense.

TPT 23if indeed you continue to advance in faith, assured of a firm foundation to grow upon. Never be shaken from the hope of the gospel you have believed in. And this is the glorious news I preach all over the world.

Here it is present tense in preach. Again, not past tense like the KJV. Do you think Paul preached to everyone who ever lived at that time? What about those who haven't heard today?

Romans 10
18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."

He is quoting Psalm 19:4 here. When the Psalm was written, do you think it could have been fulfilled? Same here. I highly doubt it was fulfilled here, considering some in the world still have not heard. Unless our Lord is ignorant and ignored a bunch of the lost when prophesying that.

[MusicLover123]

There's discussion about what "the world" refers to.  Preterists insist it means the Roman civilization of the time.  Futurists argue it means the whole inhabited world, that the context of the usage gives the meaning in each instance.

Oikoumene

Oikos  Oikouros
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
oikoumene   
Definition
the inhabited earth
the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
the whole inhabited earth, the world
the inhabitants of the earth, men
the universe, the world

One of the very main explanations of the Gospel IMO;

I Cor. 15   Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you.. For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,  and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures..

Acts 17
24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

So God just made "a portion of the earth inhabited by Greeks?" What about the rest of it? I highly doubt it would be meant to be limited to a specific part of the earth. It would basically then be 2 Israels. #1 in OT, #2 in NT.

[GodIsLove]

Music lover, that same Greek word for "world" is used here:

Luke 2:1
1 Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.

Like Jabcat says, context helps to determine what the word means.

It is similar to aionios, in that it can mean different things depending on the context.

[Patinak]

Yes, context.
Also, translation.  For example:
[Mat 12:32 KJV] 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Checking the Greek on this verse, you will find that "world" is translated from the same Greek word used for "age" (aiōn).  Kind of makes a difference on how we look at it.

I am not going to be debating Preterism here, it's just that the forum is having so much written about end time dates, and speculation about the "end of the world" and arguments about this jubilee or that festival, I just thought I'd throw out that there are some (of us) that look at it from a different perspective.  I know that many people think it is crazy, but one thing I like about this forum is that people here do their own studying, and I guarantee that no two of us will come to the same conclusions about everything.  Our common denominator is that we agree we have a loving God "who will have all men be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth." ...and that's good enough for me!