Gehenna and Sheol in the Aramaic NT

[DavidFord]

Semiticism:  ἔχουσα used as a finite verb

_A Critical And Exegetical Commentary On The Revelation Of St John Vol I_, by R. H. Charles (1920), 316
https://archive.org/stream/criticalandexege008418mbp/criticalandexege008418mbp_djvu.txt
[Rev] 12:2  καi ἐν γαστρi ἔχουσα kai κράζει ὠδίνουσα kai βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν.
ἔχουσα is here used as a finite verb by a Semiticism ; for in Biblical Aramaic and Syriac the participle is more frequently used as a finite verb than in its proper signification.  This usage
is found in late Biblical Hebrew, and frequently in Mishnaic Hebrew.  It is reflected occasionally
in the Greek translations : cf. Dan. ii. 21, where the four Aramaic participles (= four finite verbs) are rendered in the LXX by one finite verb and three participles, and by Theodotion by three finite verbs and one participle : cf. also ii. 22, iii. 9, 16, vi. 10, vii. 7 (here three participles = finite verbs are rendered by two participles and one finite verb).  This Semiticism is found again in our text in iv. 7, 8, x. 2, xxi. 12, 14.  Instances of this usage are to be found in St. Paul; cf. 2 Cor. v, 12, vii. 5.  See Blass, _Gram._ 284 sq.
With σημεῖον . . . ἐν γαστρi ἔχουσα cf. Isa. vii. 14....

[DavidFord]

Semiticism:  'making and sets' instead of:  makes sets, making setting

_The Aramaic Origin of the Fourth Gospel_, by C.F. Burney (Oxford:  At the Clarendon Press, 1922), 176pp., 96-97.
https://archive.org/stream/aramaicoriginoff00burnrich/aramaicoriginoff00burnrich_djvu.txt
Change of construction after a Participle is seen in two passages in Jn.--  1^32.... And 5^44....  These are exactly analogous to a frequently-used Hebrew idiom ; e.g. Ezek. 22^3..., lit. 'a city shedding blood . . . and makes idols' (i.e. 'that sheds . . . and makes', or 'shedding . . . and making') ; Ps. 18^34... lit. 'Making my feet like the harts, and on my heights He sets me' (i.e. 'Who makes ... and sets') ; Gen. 27^33... lit. 'the one hunting venison and brought it' (i.e. 'who hunted . . . and brought').  See other cases in Driver, _Tenses_, § 117.  In accordance with this usage, we should render ... in Jn. 1^32, not as R.V. 'descending . . .; and it abode', but 'descending . . ., and _abiding_' ; and... in 5^44, 'receiving . . . and _seeking not_', or 'who receive . . . and seek not'.

This usage is remarkably frequent in the Apocalypse, and the cases have been collected and discussed by Dr. Charles in his Commentary i, p. cxlv ; cf. 1^5... 'Unto Him that loved us . . . and hath made us, &c.' (not as R.V. 'and He made us', after semi-colon); 15^2,3 ... 'standing . . . having harps . . . and _singing_' (A.V., R.V. 'And they sing', after full stop, are incorrect).  Other cases may be seen in 2^2,9,20,23, 3^9, 7^14, 13^11, 14^2,3.

The construction is rather Hebrew than Aramaic, though we may note Dan. 4^32... 'And they shall drive thee (lit. driving thee) from men . . . and with grass like oxen they shall feed thee'.  We have it in Jn. 1^32.... In 5^44.... is represented by the Participle....  In the O.T. passages it is usual, both in Targ. and Pesh., to resolve the opening Hebrew Participle into a Perfect or Imperfect preceded by the relative..., and then to follow it by another Perfect or Imperfect.

[DavidFord]

Semitisms common to 4th Gospel & Revelation

_The Aramaic Origin of the Fourth Gospel_, by C.F. Burney (Oxford:  At the Clarendon Press, 1922), 176pp., 150-152
https://archive.org/stream/aramaicoriginoff00burnrich/aramaicoriginoff00burnrich_djvu.txt
* Dr. Charles is hardly accurate in speaking (i, p. xliv) of 'his use of Hebrew
practically as his mother tongue (for Hebrew was still the language of learned
discussions in Palestine)'.  The language of learned discussion in Palestine was
New Hebrew, which is in many respects more closely akin to Aramaic than to the
classical Hebrew in which this writer correctly finds the author's model (cf. p. 17,
footnote).  Rabbinic scholars were, however, naturally skilled in their knowledge
of the O.T. in the original ; and the author is deliberately modelling his style upon
the O.T. and not upon New Hebrew.

The following is a rough list of Semitisms common to the Fourth
Gospel and the Apocalypse:

_Asyndeton_ (cf. p. 49), which is an Aramaic characteristic, is
naturally not to be expected in a work which conforms itself to
Biblical Hebrew style.  The author of Apoc. slips into it, however,
not infrequently towards the end of his book, possibly owing to the
fact that Aramaic was his mother-tongue.  It may be noted that
Aramaic has influenced New Hebrew in this respect (cf. p. 50).
Cf. Apoc. 16^6, 19^20, 20^3,5,6,14, 21^4, 22^15,17.

_Parataxis_ (cf. p. 56).  The co-ordination of sentences by kai . . .
kai is so frequent in Apoc. that it needs no illustration.

_Non-use of Aorist Participle describing action anterior to Finite
verb._  There seems to be only one instance, viz. .... 1^12
In Jn. the usage is far less frequent than in the Synoptists
(cf. p. 56).

_Avoidance of the Genitive absolute construction._  This construction
is totally absent from Apoc. Though used occasionally in Jn., it is
far less frequent than in the Synoptists (cf. p. 57).* 
* Dr. Charles (i, p. xxxv) states that the Genitive absolute 'occurs often' in Jn.
As a matter of fact the occurrences are 17, as against Mt. 48, Mk. 36, Lk. 59, i.e. it
is proportionately about 2 1/2 times as frequent in the Synoptists as in Jn.

_Use of Casus pendens_ (cf. p. 63).  See Swete, p. cxviii ; Charles,
i, pp. cxlix, 53.  This construction is more frequent in Jn. than
in Apoc.

_kai linking contrasted statements_ (cf. p. 66). Cf. Apoc. 2^13,21, 3^1,5,8

_Great rarity of ..._  There seem to be 5 occurrences only in
Apoc, viz. 1^14, 2^24, 10^2, 19^12, 2I^8  ...
in Jn. is proportionately slightly
less frequent than in Mk., and less than half as frequent as in Mt.
and Lk. (cf. p. 69).

_Infrequency of ..._ (cf. p. 69).  Only about 17 occurrences.

_... frequent, ... never.  There are 11 occurrences of ...
in Apoc, and none of ....   ... never occurs in Jn. in sense
'that . . . not', 'lest', its place being regularly taken by ...
(cf. pp. 69 f., 100).

_The Relative completed by a Pronoun_ (cf. p. 84).
Cf. Apoc 3^8, 7^39, 12^6,14, 13^8,12, 17^9, 20^8

_... = 'Whose name was'._  Jn. 1^6, 3^1, Apoc. 6^3, 9^11.  Never
elsewhere in N.T. (cf. p. 30).

_... Present used as Futurum instans_ (cf. p. 94).  Cf. Apoc. 1^4,7,8,
2^5,16, 3^11, 4^8, 9^12, 11^14, 16^15, 22^7,12,20.  The same usage is seen with other
verbs in 11^5 (..., ...), 11^9,10 (..., ..., ..., ...), 14^9 (..., ...).

_Change of construction after Participle_ (cf. p. 96, where the cases
in Apoc. are noted).

_... (...) ... ...  = 'none'_ (p. 98).  Cf. Apoc. 7^16, 28^22, 21^27, 22^3.

Thus it appears that the case against identity of authorship of
the Gospel and Apocalypse can certainly not be maintained upon
the ground of style.  The evidence is all in the other direction.

A few words may be added as to the claim to authorship made
by the Apocalyptist.  He describes himself as 'John' simply in
1^1,4, 22^8 ; in 1^9 with the addition of 'your brother and companion in
the tribulation and kingdom and endurance (which is) in Jesus'.
In 18^20, 21^14 he seems to distinguish himself from the Twelve
Apostles.  In 22^9 he is ranked among the prophets.  Though the
tone of authority in which he delivers his message is bound up
with the fact that he is the mouthpiece of the glorified Christ, it is
clear that he recognizes that his name carries the authority of
a _true_ mouthpiece, i.e. he is a man well known and of important
standing in the churches of Asia.  His work, though apparently
utilizing older sources, must almost certainly be dated towards the
end of the reign of Domitian, i.e. shortly before A.D. 96.

Now the evidence which we have already reviewed points to the
conclusion that there was but _one_ John of great note in Asia at this
period, viz. John the presbyter, who was known as 'the disciple of
the Lord'.  Evidence also indicates that this John was the author
of the Fourth Gospel.  Unless, therefore, the Apocalypse is
pseudonymous (against which see Dr. Charles, i, pp. xxxviii f.),
the conclusion is certainly cogent that the author who signs him-
self 'John' is John the presbyter.

Thus the evidence of claim to authorship combines with that of
Semitic style in suggesting that the author of the Apocalypse is
one with the author of the Fourth Gospel and Epistles.  Whether
there exist criteria of Theological thought or other internal
characteristics which are sufficient to disprove this inference
is a question which the writer must leave to others to decide.

[DavidFord]

About a Dozen Semitic Changes in Tense in Revelation 

_A Critical And Exegetical Commentary On The Revelation Of St John Vol I_, by R. H. Charles (1920), cxliv-cxlv
https://archive.org/stream/criticalandexege008418mbp/criticalandexege008418mbp_djvu.txt
I will now give a list of the chief Hebraisms in the Apocalypse
which are sufficient to prove that it is more Hebraic than the
LXX itself.
(i.) _The Greek text needs at times to be translated into Hebrew
in order to discover its meaning and render it correctly in English._
(a) The resolution of the participle in one of the oblique
cases (gen. dat or acc.), or of an infinitive, into a finite verb in
the following clause, which finite verb should have been rendered
idiomatically in Greek by a participle or by an infinitive
respectively. We have here a frequent Hebrew idiom which
cannot be explained from vernacular Greek and which, not
having been recognized, has led to mistranslations of the text
in every version of the Apocalypse down to the present day.

"It is," writes Driver (_Hebrew Tenses_, 163), "a common
custom with Hebrew writers, after employing a participle or
infinitive, _to change the construction_, and if they wish to subjoin
other verbs, which logically should be in the participle or
infinitive as well, to pass to the use of the finite verb." Here
we have the explanation of a dozen of passages in our author,
which have been generally mistranslated in all the versions.
In a few cases they are rightly translated, and then only
through deliberate emendation of the text.^1
1 These passages are treated by modern editors as _anacoloutha_.  They are,
however, nothing of the kind : they are normal constructions in the grammar
of the Apocalypse. Sometimes editors have sought to get over difficulties
they fail to understand by mispunctuating the text. 

The idiom of a participle continued by a finite verb is
rendered literally into Greek in the LXX in Gen 27^33, Is 14:17,
and idiomatically in Is 5^8,23, Ezek 22:3.  But it is rendered
literally comparatively seldom in the LXX, whereas in our text it
occurs ten times and most probably eleven originally, as we
shall see presently. In a few cases the Syriac, Latin, Bohairic,
and A.V. are right, but probably unconsciously.  ....
The failure to recognize this idiom in 1:18 has led most
scholars to mispunctuate the text, and the rest, like Wellhausen
and Haussleiter, to excise ὁ ζῶν.

Genesis 27:33 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen+27%3A33&version=YLT;KJV
and Isaac trembleth a very great trembling, and saith, `Who, now, [is] he who hath provided provision, and bringeth in to me, and I eat of all before thou comest in, and I bless him? -- yea, blessed is he.'
[Burney:  "lit. 'the one hunting venison and brought it' (i.e. 'who hunted . . . and brought')"]

Psalm 18:32-34 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ps+18%3A32-34&version=KJV;YLT;DLNT
32 God! who is girding me [with] strength, And He maketh perfect my way.
33 Making my feet like hinds, And on my high places causeth me to stand.
34 Teaching my hands for battle, And a bow of brass was brought down by my arms.
[i.e. girding and making,
making and causing,
teaching, and bringing down, or:
girds and makes,
makes and causes,
teaches, and bring down]

Isaiah 5:23 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=is+5%3A23&version=KJV;YLT
Declaring righteous the wicked for a bribe,
And the righteousness of the righteous They turn aside from him.
Isaiah 5:23 (KJV)
Which justify the wicked for reward,
and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
[i.e. declaring righteous, taking away righteousness, or:  justify the wicked, take away righteousness]

Ezekiel 22:3 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezek+22%3A3&version=KJV;YLT;DLNT
and thou hast said: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: The city is shedding blood in its midst, For the coming in of its time, And it hath made idols on it for defilement.
[i.e. is shedding, and is making; or:  shed, and made]

Ezekiel 26:15 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekial+26%3A15&version=KJV;YLT
Thus said the Lord Jehovah to Tyre: Do not -- from the noise of thy fall, In the groaning of the wounded, In the slaying of the slaughter in thy midst, The isles shake?
Ezekiel 26:15 (KJV)
Thus saith the Lord God to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?
[i.e. falling, groaning, slaying, or:  fall, cry, slaughter]

Daniel 4:32 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+4%3A32&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
and from men they are driving thee away, and with the beast of the field [is] thy dwelling, the herb as oxen they do cause thee to eat....
Daniel 4:32 (KJV)
And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen....
[i.e., they drive, you eat]

Daniel 12:12 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan+12%3A12&version=KJV;YLT;DLNT
O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly,
and doth come to the days, a thousand, three hundred, thirty and five.
[i.e. who waits, and comes]

Luke 12:54 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2012%3A54&version=YLT;KJV;GNV
And he said also to the multitudes, `When ye may see the cloud rising from the west, immediately ye say, A shower doth come, and it is so;
Luke 12:54 (KJV)
54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
[i.e. cloud rising, shower coming, or:  cloud rise, shower comes]

John 1:32 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%201%3A32&version=KJV;YLT;DLNT
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him
[i.e. descending from and abiding upon]

John 5:44 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5%3A44&version=KJV;YLT;DLNT
how are ye able -- ye -- to believe, glory from one another receiving, and the glory that [is] from God alone ye seek not?
[i.e. receiving, while not seeking]

Colossians 1:26 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col+1%3A26&version=YLT;KJV;GNV
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
Even the mystery which hath been hid [Greek:  apokekrummenon:  _one_-HAVING-_been_-FROM-HID, i.e. having-_been_-concealed] from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[i.e. been hid, made manifest]

2 John 2 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+john+2&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
because of the truth that is remaining in us, and with us shall be to the age,
[i.e. that remains, and will be]

Revelation 1:5-6 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A5-6&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
Revelation 1:5-6 Disciples' Literal New Testament (DLNT)
5 and from Jesus Christ— the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn _of_ the dead, and the Ruler _of_ the kings _of_ the earth.  _To_ the _One_ loving us and having released us from our sins by His blood— 6 and He made us _a_ kingdom, priests _to_ His God and Father— _to_ Him _be_ the glory and the dominion forever and ever, amen.
[i.e. who loves, released, and made us]

Revelation 1:16 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A16-18&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
And He was holding seven stars in His right hand.  And a sharp double-edged sword was coming-out of His mouth.  And His face was like the sun shines in its power.
[i.e. holding, proceeding from, shining]

Revelation 1:17-18 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A16-18&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT

Revelation 1:17-18 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A16-18&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
17 And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, 'Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last,
18 and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
Revelation 1:18 (KJV)
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[i.e. in v. 17 placed and said; in v. 18 was dead and lives]

Revelation 2:2 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+2%3A2&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
....thou art not able to bear evil ones, and that thou hast tried those saying themselves to be apostles and are not, and hast found them liars,
Revelation 2:2 (KJV)
....thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
[i.e. saying and finding, or:  say and found]

Revelation 2:9 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+2%3A9&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
I have known thy works, and tribulation, and poverty -- yet thou art rich -- and the evil-speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but [are] a synagogue of the Adversary.
Revelation 2:9 (KJV)
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
[i.e. those who say, and are not]

Revelation 2:20 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+2%3A20&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
'But I have against thee a few things: That thou dost suffer the woman Jezebel, who is calling herself a prophetess, to teach, and to lead astray, my servants to commit whoredom, and idol-sacrifices to eat;
Revelation 2:20 (KJV)
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[i.e. who calls, to teach]

Revelation 2:22-23 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+2%3A22-23&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
22 lo, I will cast her into a couch, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation -- if they may not repent of their works,
23 and her children I will kill in death, and know shall all the assemblies that I am he who is searching reins and hearts; and I will give to you -- to each -- according to your works.
Revelation 2:22-23 (KJV)
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
[i.e., will cast, those who commit; and:  he who searches, will give]

Revelation 3:9 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+3%3A9&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; ....
Revelation 3:9 (KJV)
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; ....
[i.e., those who call do lie, or:  those saying are lying]

Revelation 7:14 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+7%3A14&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
and I have said to him, `Sir, thou hast known;' and he said to me, `These are those who are coming out of the great tribulation, and they did wash their robes, and they made their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;
Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[i.e. who came and washed]

Revelation 13:10 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+13%3A10&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
if anyone _is_ for captivity, he is going into captivity; if anyone _is_ to be killed with _a_ sword, he _is_ to be killed with _a_ sword. Here is the endurance and the faith _of_ the saints.
[i.e. going into, being killed; or:  goes into, is killed]

Revelation 13:11 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+13%3A11&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[i.e., come and spoke, or:  coming and speaking]

Revelation 14:2-3 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+14%3A2-3&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
2 and I heard a voice out of the heaven, as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of great thunder, and a voice I heard of harpers harping with their harps,
3 and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne....
[i.e. harping and singing]

Revelation 15:2-3 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+15%3A2-3&version=YLT;KJV;DLNT
2 and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who do gain the victory over the beast, and his image, and his mark, [and] the number of his name, standing by the sea of the glass, having harps of God,
3 and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, `Great and wonderful [are] Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty, righteous and true [are] Thy ways, O King of saints,
[i.e. standing having singing and saying]

[DavidFord]

Semitic Constructions in Revelation

_A Critical And Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St John Vol I_, by R. H. Charles (1920), cxlix-cl
https://archive.org/stream/criticalandexege008418mbp/criticalandexege008418mbp_djvu.txt
(iii.) Hebrew constructions are reproduced, parallels to
which are found occasionally in vernacular Greek.

(a) _Nominativus pendens._  This construction is found in 2^26
3^12,21 ...6^8 ....^1  1:  This occurs also elsewhere in the N.T.,
Matt. 4^16 12^36, Luke 12^10, Acts 7^40.

In other passages, however, our author has assimilated
the construction more to the Greek construction by changing the
nom. into the dat., 2^7, 17 (21^6) ... 6^4... :  cf. Matt. 5^40. 
This construction is very frequent in the LXX owing to its
frequency in the Hebrew.

(b) The oblique forms of the personal pronoun are added to
relatives. 3^8... , 7^2..., 7^9.... 13^8,12 20^8 : cf. also 12^6,14 ....
17^9.... The pronoun is, of course, pleonastic in
the Greek but not in the Hebrew, where, since the relative is
uninflected, it supplies the inflection needed. This pleonastic
use of the pronoun is found also in Mark 1:7 ( = Luke 3^16),
7^25 9^8 ... 13^9  J 1^27, Acts 15^17.  Examples of this idiom
occur exceptionally in the koine.  It is found also in Early
English. But in our text its frequency is due to Semitic
influences.

(c) (a) A noun or participial phrase, which is dependent on
or in apposition to a preceding gen. dat. or acc., may stand in
the nom., if it is preceded by the art., though Greek syntax would
require it to agree with the oblique case that goes before
it.  This peculiar idiom is derived from the Hebrew, accord-
ing to which the noun or phrase which stands in apposition
to a noun in an oblique case remains unchanged. Instances
of this usage occur in the LXX ; but what is a rare phenomenon
in the Greek version of the O.T. (cf. Ezek. 23^7,12)^2 is a well-
established idiom in the Greek text of the Apocalypse.^3

2 This anomalous construction is concealed by the wrong punctuation in
Swete's edition in both passages, and in one of them in Tischendorf's. But
the art. does not occur in the Greek, as it was not in the Hebrew.
3 This idiom occurs exceptionally in the koine, and as a blunder in other
languages. But it is not a blunder in our author. Moulton's attempts to
explain away this Hebrew idiom are just as idle as his attempt to explain ...
in 12^7. Nearly every one of his references to the Apocalypse needs
to be corrected. Robertson (_Gr._ 414 sq.) is too much influenced by Moulton,
and like all other grammarians fails to recognize this Hebraism and most
others in the Apocalypse.

Our author has, in fact, adopted a Hebraism into his Greek, and
naturalized it there. Thus it has become a marked characteristic
of his style: cf. 1^5 2^18,20 3^12 [8^9] 9^14 14^12 20^2. In these
passages observe that the nom. is always preceded by the art. ....
How readily a Jew could adopt or fall into such a solecism when
using an inflected language, is illustrated by Nestle (_Textual
Criticism of the Greek Testament_, p. 330), who notes the following
gem from Salomon Bar in his translation of the Massoretic note
at the end of the Books of Samuel (Leipzig, 1892, p. 158), "ad
mortem Davidis _rex_ Israelis." (...) If the art. is omitted, then
the word or phrase is put in the same case as the noun that
precedes it. Contrast 9^14 ... and 7^2 9^17 13^1 14^6 15^2
18^1 20^1 . . . . (...) But this rule does not apply to .... Thus in
14^6 we have ....  But ... stands by itself :  it appears almost indeclinable.
This may be due to the fact that it may reproduce ...
in our author's mind. Cf. 4^1... 5^11... 11^1... 11^15..... This solecism
is, of course, found in the LXX : cf. Gen 15^1 22^20 38^13 45^16 48^20
etc. .... follows an acc. when not preceded by the art. in 5^6 14^14 ... But
in 5^6 17^3 it seems corrupt for ....  In 14^14 ... is right and ...,
which precedes, is a slip for nom.

[DavidFord]

"I don't see it because of Jude 7"  Back when I was an annihilationist, when I read Jude 1:7 I thought it bolstered my view.  Now I look at it and say, the people at Sodom were condemned to judgment, a judgment of an age/world of fire, and their physical bodies got burned up.  However, given Ezekiel 16, the people of Sodom will be restored-- if they haven't already by responding positively to Jesus' preaching in hell.

Jude 1:7, from Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) As Sadum and Omuro, and the cities which were around them, which in manner of them committed fornication, and went after other flesh,
are lying under everlasting fire, condemned unto judgment.
(Murdock) As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the surrounding cities, which in like manner followed whoredom and went after strange flesh,
are placed beneath everlasting fire, being, doomed to judgment.
(Lamsa) Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring cities which in like manner gave themselves over to fornication, and followed after other carnal lusts,
are condemned to judgment and placed under everlasting fire;

(KJV, from Greek) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

APNT, from Aramaic
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/scripture-reference-search
Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their first estate, but left their own dwelling, he has reserved in chains, unknown, under darkness, for the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 [It is] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the surrounding area, which committed fornication in the same manner as these and followed other flesh, [which]
are placed under a demonstration of fire that is eternal, being condemned to judgment.

The Aramaic word 'ailm' means world(s)/age(s).  The pertinent phrase:  d'nura (of fire) d'l'ailm (of to the world/age).

Edit:  does Aramaic like Hebrew lack "a past or future tense"?  Also, I've been looking at the fascinating _The Jerome Conspiracy_ by Michael Wood
https://www.amazon.com/Jerome-Conspiracy-Michael-Wood/dp/193656503X/
Does Jude belong in the NT?  The Assyrian Church of the East lacks it in their canon.

https://preachersinstitute.com/2016/09/02/bible-beatdown-the-septuagint-text-vs-the-masoretic-text/
For example, it is helpful to know that Hebrew does not have a past or future tense, but only a perfect and imperfect tense... and so just because an English translation is clearly in either the past, present, or future tense, it does not necessarily mean that this is what is implied by the Hebrew original. One often encounters the use of the "prophetic perfect", where a prophecy of something that has not yet come to pass is in the perfect tense, and so is often translated with the English past tense, e.g. ...with His stripes, we were healed (Isaiah 53:5), when from the perspective of the prophet, he was speaking of something in the future.

[guest6088]

David thanks for sharing all this information...I for one have been enjoying and making use of it.
:HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

That's the thing about the Jude 7 verse, that the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah is the "example of eternal fire" - as the KJ, etc translations say it, eternal, more of an extreme of aion or olam(?)

Well, there's no flames there now.. maybe a hill of dust or two. And we know they shall be there at "the judgment". I don't really believe Jesus went to hell and preached, but I think the verse may mean He went via the Spirit and preached to those souls who were waiting and were doomed and would stay outside the ark, preaching via the Spirit while the ark was being prepared. :dontknow:

I think of the Old Testament and the Hebrew/Aramaic as being Earth based in the view.. and not so much 'afterlife' like was very popular with the nations.. ...like fiery judgments, were known to be earthly.. not an afterlife levels of torment and punishment (and the last days fiery prophecies.. fiery because of our day!)?
   :dontknow: :gsmile:

[DavidFord]

"the book of Revelation wasn't written until 95 AD" 
How'd you come to that conclusion?  And was it originally written in:  Greek?  Aramaic?  Hebrew?

Rev 3:14, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/3-14.htm
And to the angelō/ ἀγγέλῳ/ messenger of the church in Laodikeia/ Λαοδικείᾳ/ Laodicea write....

Thayer's Greek Lexicon 2993. Laodikeia
https://biblehub.com/thayers/2993.htm
STRONGS NT 2993: Λαοδίκεια
Λαοδίκεια .... Laodicea, a city of Phrygia, situated on the river Lycus not far from Colossae. After having been successively called Diospolis and Rhoas, it was named Laodicea in honor of Laodice, the wife of Antiochus II. (). It was destroyed by an earthquake, A.D. 66 (or earlier, see Lightfoots Commentary on Colossians and Philemon, p. 38f), together with Colossae and Hierapolis (see Κολοσσαί); and afterward rebuilt by Marcus Aurelius.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marcus-Aurelius-Roman-emperor
Marcus Aurelius.... born April 26, 121 CE, Rome [Italy]—died March 17, 180, Vindobona [Vienna, Austria] or Sirmium, Pannonia), Roman emperor (161–180 CE)....

Were the Laidiqians fat, materially-rich, and happy within the years A.D. 80–96?
Did God allow the Laidiqians to be rebuked and disciplined in any way:  between A.D. 55-71?  after A.D. 80?

Rev 3 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/3.htm
14 "And to The Messenger of the assembly of the Laidiqians write:
"Thus says The Eternal, The Trustworthy and True Witness, and The Source of The Creation of God:"
15 "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot; because it is necessary that you be either cold or hot," 16"And you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you from my mouth." 17 "Because you said that you are rich, and, 'I have prospered, and I lack nothing', and you do not know that you are sick and wretched and poor and naked," 18 "I counsel you to buy gold from me, proved by fire, that you may prosper, and white garments to put on, lest the shame of your nakedness be revealed, and eye salve to apply that you may see." 19 "I rebuke and discipline those whom I love. Be zealous therefore and return."

Deuteronomy 32:14-15 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=deut+32%3A14-15&version=NIV
14 with curds and milk from herd and flock
    and with fattened lambs and goats,
with choice rams of Bashan
    and the finest kernels of wheat.
You drank the foaming blood of the grape.
15 Jeshurun[a] grew fat and kicked;
    filled with food, they became heavy and sleek.
They abandoned the God who made them
    and rejected the Rock their Savior.
a:  Jeshurun means the upright one, that is, Israel.

Luke 12 (based on Younan), http://www.dukhrana.com
15. And he said to his talmida [students],
"Beware of all greediness,
because life is not in the abundance of wealth."
16. And he spoke a mathla [parable] to them:
"(About) a certain rich man, his land brought many crops to him.
17. And he was reasoning in himself and saying,
'What shall I do,
because I have no (place) where I can gather in my crops?'
18. And he said,
'I will do this:
I will tear down my barns
and rebuild and enlarge them
and gather in there all my wheat and goods.
19. And I will say to myself,
'My soul, you have many goods
that are laid up for many years.
Relax, eat drink (and) be merry."
20. But Allaha said to him,
'Fool! Your soul, it will be required from you in this night,
and these things that you have prepared,
who will they be for?'
21. Such (is) he who lays up treasures for himself,
and does not abound in Allaha."

[marie glen]

I see we both agree the example of eternal fiery judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah is not 'eternal' at all - and no flames are there now and they rise along with all as Jesus said will be at the judgment. "All the ends of earth will remember - hebrew, come to their senses - and turn to the LORD.." PS.22:27.

Nero's persecution during the 50's stayed local to Rome, whereas the one under Domitian lasted longer and was more widespread, just as the persecutions in the letters referred to the sufferings, and common persecution, and shared sufferings the churches were experiencing..

In the letter to the Philadelphians is mentioned the "hour of trial to come upon all the world" - not just Jerusalem - to "try all who live on Earth".

Laodicea's earthquake was in 60A.D. and their wealth rebuilt it. In Laodicea is an arched gateway dedicated to Domitian during his reign 81-96

The majority of the believers there were likely gentile and spoke Greek. To John I would think Jesus would talk in Aramaic like He did to Paul on the road to Damascus..

Trivia.. their water was lukewarm.. I can't remember why.. not a good source of water? hot springs piped in? but lukewarm by arriving at the city? so no cold water, but not hot either..
:gsmile:

[DavidFord]

'The kingdom of God is within you.'  'Hell can be within you'?

_The Real Pearl_ by Sadhu Sundar Singh, translated from the Urdu by M.R. Robinson (1966), 39pp., 24-30, from PDF at
https://3angelsresource.com/books/The_Real_Pearl-Sadhu_Sundar_Singh_1966.pdf
Man cannot find help and power to overcome sin and unbridled emotion merely through intellect, culture and ethics.  Without the power and grace of God secular learning and culture, instead of helping anyone, only serve to invent new ways of sin and wickedness and of ruining and destroying one another.  So to be saved from sin and all its consequences it is imperative that we commit ourselves wholly to Him who bestows salvation and eternal life.

8.  ALL MEN WILL FINALLY REPENT AND TURN TO GOD

1.  'The very structure of our intelligence and our being compels us to believe in a self-existent and infinite Being.'  A longing for the fellowship of God lies in the human heart as fire is in flint.  Though this is buried and hidden beneath the rubble of sin and ignorance it is immediately brought to light by contact with a man of God, as fire is sparked from flint when it strikes a metal like iron.  There is in man a spiritual longing which can be satisfied by nothing in this world or the next, but which God alone can satisfy.  That is why man is pushed about and stumbles around until at last he repents and turns to God.

2.  God does not want us to try to prove His existence with our faulty knowledge and arguments ; if He had wanted this He would not have remained silent, for He could have furnished proofs more satisfactory than those our minds provide.  But it is His will that His people bear witness to Him by the joy they find in His life-giving sweet fellowship, because, compared with intellectual arguments, the testimony of this real personal experience is more effective.

No one has ever seen God in person, nor heard His voice, though He has spoken through His prophets, and finally through His Son (Heb. 1:1, 2), and as a Jewish philosopher, Philo, said, 'Man's voice was made to be heard, but God's voice to be seen.  The things God has said are revealed not by words but by His deeds.'  That is, He speaks through the book of nature and through His creation.  Unfortunately people cannot be bothered taking the time to read this book.  As Herbert Spencer has said, 'It is indeed sad to see that people busy themselves with childish affairs, but are indifferent to the grand spectacle of the divine revelation, and they die without so much as glancing at the wonderful and beautiful things the finger of God has written on the face of the earth.'

3.  The fact that an idolator worshipping a stone instead of God might show that he has a kind of peace and satisfaction does not prove that there is in the stone any power to satisfy.  Indeed for some people it can be merely a means of fixing their attention on God, and God satisfies them according to their faith.  But the danger and the harm is in this, that the worshipper may make no progress and be so affected by the stones around him that he become like them, devoid of feeling or activity, failing to recognize the one who created both him and the stones, the one who is hiddenly present and is able to fulfil the heart's desire of all His true worshippers.

4.  There is present in the human make-up an element, or a divine seed, which never inclines to sin or evil.  However evil and wicked a man may be, however much he may refuse to hear God's voice of command, even though his conscience and his feelings may be deadened, this seed is not destroyed.  This is why some good is found even in great sinners and criminals.  For instance, it has been observed that robbers who have quite mercilessly murdered people have often taken pity on the poor and helped them.  If this seed does not die, nor can be destroyed, then we should not despair of any sinner.  And if we say that it can be destroyed then how can there be any sorrow over separation from God through sin, or any suffering in hell, because it is nothing other than this very 'seed', 'flame', or 'spark' which experiences this sorrow and pain?  The result is that hell ceases to be hell.  But if man knows suffering and pain he will sooner or later get so tired of it that he will turn to God to save him.

Man is endowed with free-will, and by a wrong use of this freedom he harms both himself and others ; yet not to the extent that he can destroy his own life or the divine seed that is in him.  No one except his Creator has power or authority to do that, and his Creator will not destroy him either.  If He had intended to destroy him He would not have created him ; for God to have done that would have been to prove His ignorance and mistakenness in creating, which is unthinkable.

Man did not create his own spirit, nor can he kill it.  The Creator formed every creature for some particular purpose, and as neither man nor God will destroy the spirit of man or the divine seed that is in him, the purpose for which he was created will one day be fulfilled.  He may go astray and be lost, but eventually he will return to the one in whose image he has been made, because this is his destiny.  Gissler writes about this divine seed, 'This element or spark, which is an inner light, is created in every man along with his spirit ; it strives by every means against sin, and resolutely pursues goodness, ever urging on towards that fountain from which it had its origin', so that 'as the body lives by the spirit so the spirit lives by God.'  And the Lord said, 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself' (John 12:32).  As God created man to live in His presence and fellowship it is impossible that he should become separated from Him forever.

9.  THE KINGDOM OF GOD

1.  The Lord said that unless a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God.  Let alone entering it, he cannot even see it.  Physical eyes can see only worldly and material objects.  But to see God, who is Spirit, and His spiritual Kingdom, one must be born of the Spirit (John 3:3, 5, 6) ; then not only shall we see Him with spiritual eyes, but we shall reign with Him always.

When a man repents and believes in the Lord the Spirit of God works in him ; he is born again and becomes a new creation.  Then the Kingdom of God or Paradise begins in his heart, as the Lord said to the thief, 'Today you will be with me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43).  This proves the Lord's foreknowledge of and His authority over Paradise.  He did not say 'Perhaps, after a while, you will enter Paradise,' or 'First I shall go, or I shall get permission from God, and make arrangements for you.'  Rather as one with authority, a master, He gave His promise and brought consolation to the dying thief.  The first fruits, so to speak, of His death on the cross He took with Him to Paradise.  Similarly now too those who with Him are crucified to sin and the world are born anew that very day, entering Paradise and the Kingdom of God to find a wonderful joy and peace in their hearts, but worldly people can neither see this peace, and Paradise, nor understand what it means.

2.  God gives every sinner a chance to repent, be born again, and enter the Kingdom of God.  For instance, He knew what kind of man Judas Iscariot was, and that he would betray Him, but He never dealt harshly with him ; rather He gave him a priceless opportunity to live in His fellowship, thus giving no one the slightest excuse for saying that bad people are not given a chance.  And Judas was so dense and stupid that instead of repenting and coming back to Jesus to ask forgiveness and find salvation he went and committed suicide.  Now, too, many people commit sins like that, and instead of Paradise and the Kingdom of God go to their 'own place' (Acts 1:25) and are punished.

By this 'place', or hell, is meant a state of suffering and torment which man creates in himself by exercising his free-will in disobedience to God.  This is not the name of any place, because if it were a part of the Being of God, who is everywhere, it would be in hell, which is quite impossible.  This is rather a condition, which cannot be attributed to a holy God ; and His true worshippers too will be eternally saved from the state of sin and torment.

Wherever God is, there is Heaven, or the Kingdom of God ; and God is present everywhere, therefore Heaven is everywhere too.  It follows that God's true worshippers, whether in difficult circumstances or easy, among friends or enemies, in this world or the next, be it any place at all, are joyful, because they always live in God who is omnipresent, and He in them.  This is the Kingdom of God (Luke 17:20, 21).  On the other hand although the sinner may outwardly live a life of luxury and ease he cannot get rid of the restlessness of his heart.  Even if he should get into heaven it would be hell to him, because he carries hell in his heart.  So until this heart is changed and born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

3.  God's Kingdom is a Kingdom of love.  It is like what a godly man saw in a dream.  He arrived in a country he had never happened to be in before, and was astonished to see how affectionately and lovingly the inhabitants greeted him, just the way old friends or brothers who have been separated a long time greet each other.  Going on further he saw grand houses with all kinds of valuable and beautiful furnishings, Their owners went out leaving them unlocked and with open doors, and there was nothing to fear from any thief or robber.  On inquiry one of them told him, 'There are no such people as thieves here.  It is only when hearts lock God out that it is necessary to lock doors.  When the door of the heart is open to God and He lives in it there is no need to lock any house door, because God's Kingdom, which is a Kingdom of love, is established in the heart, and from love for one another all serve and desire the good of each other.  For instance, take two brothers.  The younger found out that his brother needed something, so he determined to get it and send it to his home.  The older brother also decided to supply the younger brother's need.  They did this without either telling the other about it, and without asking, just from love, and both brothers, without knowing about each other's good intentions, took the goods and set out for each other's houses.  They met on the way, and when each saw the other's genuine and selfless love they were very happy and grateful indeed, and embraced and kissed each other with affection.  So this is the way we help each other in love and desire each other's good.'

Going on a little he saw men and angels worshipping God together with hearts united, and in their midst was Christ also, incarnate God, the incarnation of love.  What wonderful divine love and joy filled his heart!  Involuntarily he cried out, 'This is the Kingdom of God, our real eternal home, for which the human heart yearns.  It begins in the believer's heart even while he is in the world, but this is the final stage, where there is no suffering, misfortune or death, but eternal life and everlasting joy.'

10.  MORALITY AND BEAUTY ....

[DavidFord]

Which language do you suspect these verses were originally:  spoken in?  written in?:

Romans 10:7, from http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And who shall descend into the deep of Sheul,
And bring up the Meshiha from among the dead ?
(Lamsa) And who has descended into the abyss of Sheol
and brought up Christ from the dead?
(KJV) Or, Who shall descend into the deep?
(that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

1Corinthians 15:55
(Etheridge) Where is thy sting, Death [Aramaic:  mutha]?
and where is thy victory Shiul ?
From https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-55.htm
Where of you thanate [O death] the victory? 
Where of you thanate [O death] the sting?

1Peter 3:19
(Etheridge) he preached unto those souls who were held in sheul,
(Lamsa) And he preached to the souls imprisoned in Sheol;
(KJV) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

[marie glen]

 "He preached unto those souls who were held in sheul" - the verse doesn't really say that:

1 Peter 3 - 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison- phulaké: a guarding, guard, watch -  20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently, in the days of Noah - while the ark was being built. - In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water...." - only 8 souls got onto the ark (responded and got into the ark).

2 Peter 2:5 - "if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

Simply more translator pre belief in a pagan myth, this one human/carnal immortality - which is eternal life - with-out Jesus (we have to metaphor God's Word to contradict it) - Because of the belief in the nation's ideas about human inherent immortality - which requires a hell or holding cell.. translated a watch, guard, locked into judgment into a prison for the immortal (w/o Jesus!) soul/psyche.

But I think rightly dividing - considering all scripture - reveals Truth and logic (root word, logos).

[DavidFord]

"He preached unto those souls who were held in sheul" - the verse doesn't really say that:

1 Peter 3 - 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison- phulaké: a guarding, guard, watch -  20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently, in the days of Noah - while the ark was being built. - In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water...." - only 8 souls got onto the ark (responded and got into the ark).

You're working with a Greek version of 1 Peter, while I'm working with the Aramaic Peshi tta.  How do you think Romans 5:7 actually reads?

Romans 5:7 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%205%3A7&version=HCSB;YLT;NIV;TPT
For rarely will someone die for a just person—
though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
Romans 5:7 (Young's Literal Translation)
for scarcely for a righteous man will any one die,
for for the good man perhaps some one also doth dare to die;
Romans 5:7 (NIV)
Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.

Romans 5:7 (The Passion Translation)
Now, who of us would dare to die for the sake of a wicked person?[a]
We can all understand if someone was willing to die for a truly noble person.
a:  As translated from the Aramaic.  The Greek reads, "Rarely would anyone die for a righteous person."

[DavidFord]

Suggested changes, given the original Aramaic's 'pagans/heathens'

Mt 6:7 In praying, don't use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do;
for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking.
Gentiles --> pagans/heathens

Mt 10:5 Jesus sent these twelve out, and commanded them, saying,
"Don't go among the Gentiles,
and don't enter into any city of the Samaritans.
Gentiles --> pagans/heathens

Mt 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the assembly.
If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.
Gentile --> pagan/heathen

Mk 7:26 Now the woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by race. She begged him that he would cast the demon out of her daughter.
Greek --> pagan/heathen
(and 'race' could be replaced with a better word, IMO)

Jn 7:35 The Jews therefore said among themselves, "Where will this man go that we won't find him?
Will he go to the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?
It's actually more like this:
(Etheridge) The Jihudoyee say among themselves, Whither is this about to go, that we cannot find him ?
To the countries of the nations is he to go, and to teach the Heathens ?

Acts 18:4 He reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks.
Greeks --> pagans/heathens

Acts 18:17 Then all the Greeks laid hold on Sosthenes, the ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. Gallio didn't care about any of these things.
Greeks --> pagans/heathens

1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles, that one has his father's wife.
Gentiles --> pagans/heathens

1 Cor 10:20 But I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, and not to God, and I don't desire that you would have fellowship with demons.
Gentiles --> pagans/heathens

1 Cor 10:27 But if one of those who don't believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience.
who don't believe --> pagans/heathens

1 Cor 12:2 You know that when you were heathen, you were led away to those mute idols, however you might be led.
"heathen" works.

1 Peter 4:3 For we have spent enough of our past time doing the desire of the Gentiles, and having walked in lewdness, lusts, drunken binges, orgies, carousings, and abominable idolatries.
Gentiles --> pagans/heathens