those in Sheol getting what they dished out to others?

[sheila]

Proverbs 18;3and5 When wickedness comes,so does contempt,and with shame comes disgrace. When the birds of heaven come to

steal away'seed wordof God"such as righteousness a free gift..and salvation of all men,all redeemed and Jesus coming to save

all men..not condemn....then contempt for fellowmen..and shame[from uncovering nakedness of sin seen as  not coveredby Christ's

blood[atonementLamb] and accusors of the brethren riseup in agreement with THE ACCUSOR OF THE BRETHERN[wicked].they

.dis-the-GRACE GOD IS SHOWING UNTO ALL MEN.and  such doctrines and headlines as the title of the original post topic.

we strip men naked when we accuse them of sin that has been atoned for by Jesusblood..and donotcover theirnakednesswith

the freegiftof righteousness through Christ[cleanwhite garment]

They parted Jesus garments..exposed His nakedness[condemned as a sinner/blasphemer]on the cross..and Hedespised the shame.

LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS..itdoes not expose nakedness and shame.

Our change of'RAINMENT" in Christ..is clean white garments/freegift of righteousness through Christ BY GOD.

we dishonor Christ and the Father when we fail to honour their revealed will and higher thoughts..

verse 5itisnotgood to be partial with the wicked[accusorofthe brethren]or to deprive theinnocent ofjustice[take all their sin away] :2c:

[sheila]

 :2c: Rich man..portrays Prince of this world/satan/whousurped dominionfrom all in Adam[Lazarus]sown in weakness andcorruption and

raised up in power and incorruption.. satan and demons LOF /torment..thirsting for water of life[covering of bloodof Christ/Word of Life

from God]

. Chasm between those shown mercy[allin Adam]who inherit the Kingdom prepared for them.

Matthew 12;45.... 5+7more spirits more wicked then himself=12.......Satan's reign over this earth/man comes to it's final end.

12 represents government/reign

Luke 9;16 5 loaves and 2fish=12 basketful.Mk8;6seven loaves..Jesus feeding the poor[allin Adam/Lazarus]with lifesustaining'wordof

God..resurrection,grace,freegift of eternal life forgiveness and healing.

feed,clothe,visits sick[Adam] and those in-prisoned in this body of death[weak/corruptible]

satan's reign/RICH MAN/accuser..man given no crumb of forgiveness/love/mercy/bread of life..but condemnation death.

[marie glen]

It’s not easy to figure this out what with seeming opposing verses on the topic. The best we can do is believe what we think the verses combined mean and what seems to us the Spirit of God is guiding us in our belief.

But of course, we cannot really know for sure. So it’s excellent when believers can share their views, even when they differ. :thumbsup:

As for me, I tend to think in terms of - I guess, dispensationism? I tend to think all believers rise at Jesus’ return.. the living believers and the dead believers rising to meet Him at his coming, from whatever state of consciousness, all believers together meet Him at His coming. Then I believe in a literal 1000 years millennial rule of Jesus upon Earth where there will be survivors of apocalypse.. and where believers will be serving and working with Jesus.. called “reigning with Christ”.

Then I believe the later chapters of Revelation indicate that after the millennium, and after the adversary is set free for a short while and he deceived survivors (some) to once again surround Jerusalem - which I assume was rebuilt after the “7 years of burning the leftover war machinery of Armageddon which occurred in Gehenna Valkey outside Jerusalem (just prior to and as Jesus was returning).

Fire comes down and consumes these ones.. Then i believe these late chapters of Rev indicate all those who have lived but have not yet come to “believe” will be resurrected. And since the resurrection of dead believers at Jesus’ return is called here the 1st resurrection (Rev 20) I figure this resurrection, after the millennium, of all nonbelievers to be the 2nd one.

So I see these afterlife things as happening to the groups collectively. As in Rev, a collective judgment ‘day’, not that each one of us when we come to the Lord, whether during this life or later, don’t carry out our own interior individual self judgment.

I tend to think of Judgment ‘day’ not as a day of God judging. I really don’t.. but as the fulfillment of israel’s (collective) Day Of Atonement - doa 4 the doa - but I believe it’s belief that gets ones name in the book of life, and after rising I figure, who’s not going to believe? And repent and be reconciled? Thus written in the book.. And once one learns God is the total source of life, and is love & all good things w/ no darkness at all, would anyone with any rational thought at all, choose not to believe / submit? My thought “imagination” os of God, loving, patient Father, still waiting.. as each one is drawn by Jesus (Jn 12:32; Ps. 22:27) and makes their way out of their outer darkness, weeping and perhaps even their gnashing of teeth..

One thing we all agree on is 1 Corinthians 15:22-28! (Ephesians 1:10 & Colossians 1:20) When all things/the whole has been made subject to Jesus and He has handed the kingdom and Himself unto the Fagher, the Father, we know, shall be truly “all in all”.

I have always loved numbers and letters. (Who doesn’t!? lol) That’s why I get a kick out of ‘doa for the doa’ / day Of Atonement for the (initially) dead on arrival / rose “still in their sins” (?) And I also get find my attention noticing the parable of the leaven, that there’s 3 loaves / 3 harvests like in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28? And the verses are Mt. 13:33. (I also can’t ignore the #’s Of Rev 13:13, Which was huge & no one sees.

Sigh.. I’ve studied ‘on my own’ for almost 40 years.. And I have a healthy imagination on these things.. Now I’ve gone & wrote a book on this tiny phone.. not easy to edit..  :laughing7:

I’m going to reread the parable in the interlinear.. And let the Lord guide / minister.. Which I know we all do! And we all see as through a glass darkly.
:Peace2:

[marie glen]

It's funny but the parable came up in my daily reading, but indirectly. I made myself a reading schedule of the gospels blended into two 6 month readings made up of mostly 2 of the gospels for each schedule.

Yesterday's reading had a gap.. so to double check I hadn't left any verses out of the schedules, I checked the other 6 month schedule (which I imagine I probably did last year too).

And included in those verses - which were in the other 6 month schedule - was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. A little strange.

And you're not going to believe this (I am chuckling as I write this, it's that not credible!)

When I read the verses on the Bible hub apps interlinear.. "...and the poor man died.." :bsad: I could almost hear the Lord saying.. "and was carried by angels.." It seemed like He swept His arm up toward the heavens and said, "up into the bosom of Abraham.." - and it struck me as an idiom, the same as "fell asleep with the father's".

When reading, and the Lord said "and the rich man died and was in hades" I imagined the rich man in a grave, as if I was looking down upon it, and it was transparent.. "and having lifted up the eyes of him" it struck me that he was dreaming..

And father Abraham tells him he having lived in selfish "splendor" was now in torments (and nightmare?) and Lazarus was being comforted..

...yes I know, I've totally lost it now.

[DavidFord]

"and the disputes and contests of the scribes.."

In the original rendition of 2 Tim 4:13, did Paul leave behind:  a cloak?  a house of books, i.e. a book-carrier?

2 Tim 4:13 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%204%3A13&version=DLNT
While coming, bring the cloak which I left-behind in Troas with Carpus,
and the books— especially the parchments.

2 Ti 4:13 (based on Magiera, from Aramaic)
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
And bring the book-carrier that I left in Troas with Carpus when you come,
and the books especially the rolls of parchments.

[DavidFord]

1 Tim 3:16's poetry
The last 4 lines rhyme in Aramaic:  malaka-angels aimma-Gentiles ailma-world shubkha-glory. 
Line 1's rab-great and kanutha-uprightness are reminiscent of 'rab khana' - 'high priest.'
Line 2's athgli - 'was revealed' has gali:  reveal; Jesus was revealed in the flesh in Galilee.
Lines 3 and 4's azddq - 'was justified' and mlaka-angels are reminiscent of Melchizedek.
Lines 4 and 5 have the similar-sounding a-th-kh-z-i 'was seen' and a-th-k-r-z 'was preached.'
Lines 5 and 6 have the similar-sounding aimma-Gentiles and ailma-world.

1Ti 3:16 (based on Magiera)
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
1 and truly great is this mystery of uprightness
2 which was revealed in the flesh
3 and was justified spiritually
4 and was seen by angels
5 and was preached among the Gentiles
6 and was believed in the world
7 and was taken up in glory

[GodIsLove]

It's funny but the parable came up in my daily reading, but indirectly. I made myself a reading schedule of the gospels blended into two 6 month readings made up of mostly 2 of the gospels for each schedule.

Yesterday's reading had a gap.. so to double check I hadn't left any verses out of the schedules, I checked the other 6 month schedule (which I imagine I probably did last year too).

And included in those verses - which were in the other 6 month schedule - was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. A little strange.

And you're not going to believe this (I am chuckling as I write this, it's that not credible!)

When I read the verses on the Bible hub apps interlinear.. "...and the poor man died.." :bsad: I could almost hear the Lord saying.. "and was carried by angels.." It seemed like He swept His arm up toward the heavens and said, "up into the bosom of Abraham.." - and it struck me as an idiom, the same as "fell asleep with the father's".

When reading, and the Lord said "and the rich man died and was in hades" I imagined the rich man in a grave, as if I was looking down upon it, and it was transparent.. "and having lifted up the eyes of him" it struck me that he was dreaming..

And father Abraham tells him he having lived in selfish "splendor" was now in torments (and nightmare?) and Lazarus was being comforted..

...yes I know, I've totally lost it now.

What stood out to me is this:
"...having lived in selfish splendor was now in torments (and nightmare?)

THIS is what I would tend, as of now, to believe "punishment" entails...our own torments when we realize the horror of our past deeds.  How do we reach the point of the realization that our deeds were sinful is IMO an individual process, likely involving God's spirit opening our eyes in whatever ways he sees fit.

[DavidFord]

I've studied 'on my own' for almost 40 years.... I'm going to reread the parable in the interlinear.. And let the Lord guide / minister

An interlinear of the Aramaic is at
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
Another interlinear can be gotten to using the Peshi+ta tool at
http://dukhrana.com
by checking the box for Khabouris and/or 'BFBS/UBS,' finding a passage, and clicking 'analyze.'

[DavidFord]

What stood out to me is this:
"...having lived in selfish splendor was now in torments (and nightmare?)
THIS is what I would tend, as of now, to believe "punishment" entails...our own torments when we realize the horror of our past deeds.  How do we reach the point of the realization that our deeds were sinful is IMO an individual process, likely involving God's spirit opening our eyes in whatever ways he sees fit.

In Melvin's account, one guy seen in hell was in a prison similar to what he'd sent an innocent person, and was questioning himself over his having done that evil deed.  Another person in hell had come to realize that 'white magic' was actually harmful.

[marie glen]

I've studied 'on my own' for almost 40 years.... I'm going to reread the parable in the interlinear.. And let the Lord guide / minister

An interlinear of the Aramaic is at
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
Another interlinear can be gotten to using the Peshi+ta tool at
http://dukhrana.com
by checking the box for Khabouris and/or 'BFBS/UBS,' finding a passage, and clicking 'analyze.'

Thank you! I'll check that out! And likely add it to my regularly used links :thumbsup:

What stood out to me is this:
"...having lived in selfish splendor was now in torments (and nightmare?)
THIS is what I would tend, as of now, to believe "punishment" entails...our own torments when we realize the horror of our past deeds.  How do we reach the point of the realization that our deeds were sinful is IMO an individual process, likely involving God's spirit opening our eyes in whatever ways he sees fit.

I, as of now, believe that too.. I thought it interesting today reading the interlinear translation of "testing" in the greek - included "testing one's genuineness" etc.. https://biblehub.com/greek/1381.htm

G1381. dokimazo ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimazo: I put to the test, prove, examine

Cognate: 1381 dokimázō (from 1384 /dókimos, "approved") – properly, to try (test) to show something is acceptable (real, approved); put to the test to reveal what is good (genuine). See 1384 (dokimos).

1381 /dokimázō ("to approve by testing") is done to demonstrate what is good, i.e. passes the necessary test. 1381 (dokimázō) does not focus on disproving something (i.e. to show it is bad).

I thought that is very interesting.

In Melvin's account, one guy seen in hell was in a prison similar to what he'd sent an innocent person, and was questioning himself over his having done that evil deed.  Another person in hell had come to realize that 'white magic' was actually harmful.

:Chinscratch: interesting.. maybe the unsaved in hades (not hell) - in the state of death, or perhaps even in the state of dying, really do have nightmares..

[DavidFord]

interesting.. maybe the unsaved in hades (not hell) - in the state of death, or perhaps even in the state of dying, really do have nightmares

Dr. Maurice Rawlings, _Beyond Death's Door_ (1978), 172pp.  On 19:
Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!"  ....he had a terrified look.... a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror.... he said, "Don't you unerstand?  I am in hell.  Each time you quit I go back to hell!  Don't let me go back to hell!"

[sheila]

 :2c: reconsider.......what you are crediting to God's name here.the gates of hell shall Not prevail..BECAUSE OF GOD AND CHRIST.....

discerning the profane from the Holy........discern the loving Father[God is love] from this'portrayl' and'image'and 'likeness'of the

'god/prince'of this world.whose image and likeness?I can see this same scenario playingout in

thenews..psychopaths torturing..serial killers..and various waterboarding and such techniques..of corrupt governments.

can't you just see Jesus doing these things?HaveIbeen that long withyou andyou don't know me?

He who says 'O''death,I shall be thy plagues!" if...the 'light' that be in thee,be darkness...how greatis that darkness...

no doubt satan would love to torture mankind  in spirit form,also. didn't he say..Iwillraisemy throne abovethe starsof heaven.?

bad enough his works in man's weak corruptible flesh. But the accusorofthe brethren[allmen] was thrown to the earth. He can

kill our body then do nothing else.

dowe want aneye for eye,tooth for tooth..for others..but  mercy and grace for ourselves? acheating pairof scales..usedby thosewith

scalesover their eyes . FOR GOD HAS BOUND UP ALL MEN IN DISOBEDIECE,IN ORDER TO SHOW MERCY UNTO ALL.

are we to carefully measure outthe tenth,mint/dill..and forget the weightier matters. Like justice..andImean God'sjustice

ofgiving/restoring the Kingdom untomen..the kingdom/dominion that the liar/thief andmurderer of man usurped in the garden


   Babylon she-ol[le[d]] and been around alongtime. Proverbs 7;21-27 she seduced him with her smooth talk....her houseis ahighway

to the grave,leading down to the chambers of death.

[sheila]

Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess? seems it brings about false confessions,also. Iv'e read different papers on it.

seems to me the prodigal realized the love his Father had for him in spite of his behavior is what made the son set out for home..and

the reception of open arms in love is what made him say what he did.

[GodIsLove]

Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess? seems it brings about false confessions,also. Iv'e read different papers on it.

seems to me the prodigal realized the love his Father had for him in spite of his behavior is what made the son set out for home..and

the reception of open arms in love is what made him say what he did.

:thumbsup:

[lastpost]

Yes, but what has to happen before the prodigal son realises the love of his father and sets out for his home? And I'm not referring to those who come to repentance during their life on earth; personally, I have found it helpful to pursue this avenue of thought a little further.

Perhaps most people who have known the Love of the Saviour, in part at least, are right in thinking that most people are basically decent, but some get a little misguided and selfish, and a few go well off the rails; but that it's not all too serious that it can't be sorted with prayers for guidance from Christ. Well, perhaps in many cases this is true. But I would propose it is not as simplistic as that in some cases, and I will try to explain this point of view.

Is it really that hard to realise that there are some beings – once human – who do not want light, love and spiritual joy? Indeed, it is in their apparent nature to hate such things and to war against them. So how does such a one become tender enough to receive Divine guidance and to seek the love of his father? How?

Perhaps an angel, bright and holy, should approach such a one and tell him that he is loved and to repent? But such a one as I have in mind will hate the angel and will seek to hurt the angel; such a one would have the deepest loathing for anything or anyone exhibiting goodness; such a one seeks to dominate and rule and cause pain.

Do I exaggerate? Have you not heard of even humans in the flesh who commit abominations against the innocent, accounts of which are not suitable for publishing – and they do it for the satisfaction of their perverted desires? Then I speak of those and worse.

Such a one has turned from good on purpose; such a one delights in evil; such a one relishes seeing others in anguish; such a one cannot abide to see one in joy because the only urge is to see others suffer, and then suffer some more; for such a one only exists to see others writhe in agony, either at his hand or at the hand of one that he has already subjugated. I exaggerate? My opinion is that I have not even touched the surface of the blackness in their souls.

Why do humans assume that because a person passes out of his physical body that he is somehow going to be converted to a loving, caring, gentle humble being when he arrives on the other side? Where does such an idea come from? An instant perfected character from doctrinal belief perhaps? "I am saved and therefore I am fit to reside in the highest heaven" or some such fancy? Not in my opinion.

God's children must learn by experience, they must learn to be all-wise, they must learn to be completely selfless. For God to give His children the power that He has in store for them, then selfishness must be totally absent lest destruction comes about to the soul. Is a human being ready for such power simply because they have left their one and only life on earth in the flesh? I would say: "No, not in my opinion".

I would say that some further thought needs to go into this subject.

Why is it considered that the habits of a lifetime of filth and vice are somehow miraculously abandoned on the arrival in another state of being – and, for the sake of making a point, I will say that there are beings who have sought darkness and evil, indeed who have practiced it for decades while in the earth body, have relished in the thought of making a pact with a darker being. Can anyone say in all knowledge that there have never been any like this? I would say there have been a fair number of devils to pass out of the flesh like this – I say "devils" but I must clarify that I speak of those once children of God and still children of God in essence.

I have said this before: In my view, in the earth life such a character does not wish to escape the growing cravings for vice but chooses instead to willingly reject the influences of God and His holy angelic ministers, and of preferring, of having a propensity for, and even relishing, the death caused by vice, impurity and evil in contrast to the life of holiness and purity and love.

Such a one exalts the animal instincts to the practical extinction of the spiritual instincts; such a one degrades even the lowest of the physical, the corporeal; of feeding, cultivating and obsessing over sensual earthly lusts; of depraving the sensations and the lowest of tastes until they are grotesque distortions; of reducing the human to the level of the lowest beast.

And so he passes out of the earth life: Yet, in such a one the Divine essence is suffocated and quenched, the baser elements of the carnal were highlighted, fostered, forced on, and developed to improper excess. They achieved absolute dominance, they quenched the spirit and extinguished all desire for progress which not only had no meaningful purpose, but which was abhorrent even in contemplation.

He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. The habits of the vices which were all-in-all sustain and perpetuate themselves, they blackens further his soul-body, and what is more, he wills it; and habits of vice drag the rogue who has submitted himself totally to the animal recreations further and further away from the path of progress, until even the soul-body resembles a beast-like being, diseased and afflicted; the unhealthily stimulated passions now seek to devour themselves as they have each gained the desire to rule; and the voice of the spirit is obscured and cannot be heard for a terrible period.

Down the soul must sink, down and down, down, further and further, until it is "lost" in all but impenetrable unintelligibility.

Now, if you have come this far, please bear with me. On the way down to the uttermost outer darkness, do you think that this soul was alone? Yes, alone perhaps inside, but not alone from other similar inhabitants; similar and yet different; they are different because they have different individual characters and they are different because their wills are of various strengths, and the stronger wills can cause the greatest pain to others; and they are similar because they preferred darkness to light.

And what of these "fellow" creatures? Each wants to rule the others, each wants the power to cause anguish to any rival. And pity those foolish enough to have fallen that far who arrive afresh from a lighter place, for in the context of such a situation it should not be difficult to see the evil glee of existing inhabitants as they fall upon the newcomer and devise unthinkable ways to bring pain.

I think that perhaps I ought to stop here because if I have not made my point by now then perhaps I should hold my tongue, so to speak. This is not the picture painted by the experiences of fundamentalist Christians who report their near death experiences, but I think I can understand why their accounts come out as they do.

But one should always be reminded that God cannot fail and that He has ensured that even such souls who have fallen, no, who have consciously and willingly taken themselves to the teeming pits of the outer darkness – even such as these shall be revived by the constant love poured upon them by the One who gave them life, perhaps slowly and after a while, but even such as these shall return to the Father, they shall bow their heads in adoration and gratitude to the Divine beauty of the One True God – they shall be renewed, restored, perfected – even such as these.

Peace and Peace again.

[sheila]

..have you not read of the demoniac possessed of a legion?that when Jesus cast them out..the man was in his 'right'mind?

men couldn't approach him..without injury..he hung out among the tombs.the 'beast'and beastly behavior that

accompanies it..is cast into the LOF when Jesus seperates them. :2c:

not to debate..just thoughts expressed in reply to your reasoning.

[lastpost]

..have you not read of the demoniac possessed of a legion?that when Jesus cast them out..the man was in his 'right'mind?

men couldn't approach him..without injury..he hung out among the tombs.the 'beast'and beastly behavior that

accompanies it..is cast into the LOF when Jesus seperates them. :2c:

not to debate..just thoughts expressed in reply to your reasoning.

Sheila,

Personally, I see a vast difference between a man who is vacant enough to allow wandering spirits to inhabit and abuse his physical body...

...and a man who is as evil as all those wandering spirits put together...

[DavidFord]

Personally, I see a vast difference between a man who is vacant enough to allow wandering spirits to inhabit and abuse his physical body...
...and a man who is as evil as all those wandering spirits put together...

One boy started an extreme interest in Hitler, and even hung up a poster of him, and then one day came into church cursing in fluent German.  The demon was cast out, and supposedly was one of 6,000 demons associated with Hitler's earthly life. I recall reading this in

_Do Greater Things: Activating the Kingdom to Heal the Sick and Love the Lost_ (2018) by Robby Dawkins.
https://www.amazon.com/Do-Greater-Things-Activating-Kingdom/dp/0800798589/

[DavidFord]

Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess? seems it brings about false confessions,also. Iv'e read different papers on it.
seems to me the prodigal realized the love his Father had for him in spite of his behavior is what made the son set out for home..and
the reception of open arms in love is what made him say what he did.

Your recollection of the prodigal son story differs from mine.
"Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess?"
Confess what?  (that torture is A Bad Thing?)

[DavidFord]

reconsider.......what you are crediting to God's name here.the gates of hell shall Not prevail

Who is crediting what to God's name? (creating humans and angels that have the free will to harm and to do good to others?)  Yes, ultimately hell won't prevail, but in the meantime, the kingdom of darkness is bringing pain misery and death to far too many humans.

"no doubt satan would love to torture mankind  in spirit form,also.... bad enough his works in man's weak corruptible flesh"
Indeed.
"he can kill our body then do nothing else"
Reference?  Can satan attack many humans' spirits while those humans are alive on earth?

[MusicLover123]

Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess? seems it brings about false confessions,also. Iv'e read different papers on it.
seems to me the prodigal realized the love his Father had for him in spite of his behavior is what made the son set out for home..and
the reception of open arms in love is what made him say what he did.

Your recollection of the prodigal son story differs from mine.
"Is torture really a 'Good" way to get someone to confess?"
Confess what?  (that torture is A Bad Thing?)

I think she means this:

Phillipians 2
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

1 Corinthians 12
3wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus [is] anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus [is] Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.

[DavidFord]

what has to happen before the prodigal son realises the love of his father and sets out for his home?

The prodigal had to 'hit rock bottom' before heading home.
"the evil glee of existing inhabitants as they fall upon the newcomer and devise unthinkable ways to bring pain"
A refrain in Melvin's account is demons doing to people exactly what those people had done on earth to others.  Something similar was said in

Philip Mantofa Goes To Hell - WP Films (2011)
https://youtu.be/RVwtbR2DHc4

[GodIsLove]

I didn't watch the video but I did read this comment from someone who claims to also have had a hell vision:

"He told me to pray for the people in hell as Him and the angels watched in the elevator that leads to  Heaven"

I like to see people are having universal salvation revealed to them.

[DavidFord]

Do you believe that Satan is literally, a great, red (fire-like) dragon, with wings that once flew around Heaven cooking and/or eating God's angels? Because if you don't it's difficult to claim Satan is 'literally' anything.

I don't recall reading anything about Satan "cooking and/or eating God's angels."  I bet Satan can take the form of a dragon.  Praying Medic once saw a dragon when praying against the Orphan Spirit.  The devil can appear as a seemingly-good thing:

2 Cor 11:13-15 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2011:13-15&version=DLNT
13 For such _ones are_ false-apostles, deceitful workers, transforming _themselves_ into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself transforms _himself_ into _an_ angel _of_ light. 15 Therefore _it is_ no great _thing_ if also his ministers are disguising _themselves_ as ministers _of_ righteousness— whose end shall be according to their works.

But that's the problem. It's easy to say 'satan' doesn't mean 'Satan' whenever it doesn't suit you so what's to stop you saying 'satan' never means 'Satan?

Anyone can say anything. Context often provides insight as to how a word is best understood.  Sometimes people will disagree about a word's meaning.  Do you agree with me that God conversed with a malicious, conscious entity about Job?

7854. שָׂטָן (satan)
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7854.htm
Numbers 22:32
HEB: אָנֹכִי֙ יָצָ֣אתִי לְשָׂטָ֔ן כִּֽי־ יָרַ֥ט
NAS: I have come out as an adversary, because
KJV: behold, I went out to withstand thee, because [thy] way
INT: I have come an adversary because was contrary
....
Job 2:2
HEB: תָּבֹ֑א וַיַּ֨עַן הַשָּׂטָ֤ן אֶת־ יְהוָה֙
NAS: have you come from? Then Satan answered
KJV: comest thou? And Satan answered
INT: come answered Satan the LORD and said

Job 2:3
HEB: יְהוָ֜ה אֶל־ הַשָּׂטָ֗ן הֲשַׂ֣מְתָּ לִבְּךָ֮
NAS: said to Satan, Have you considered
KJV: said unto Satan, Hast thou
INT: the LORD to Satan thou considered

Job 2:4
HEB: וַיַּ֧עַן הַשָּׂטָ֛ן אֶת־ יְהוָ֖ה
NAS: Satan answered the LORD
KJV: And Satan answered the LORD,
INT: answered Satan the LORD and said

Job 2:6
HEB: יְהוָ֛ה אֶל־ הַשָּׂטָ֖ן הִנּ֣וֹ בְיָדֶ֑ךָ
NAS: said to Satan, Behold,
KJV: said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand;
INT: God to Satan behold your power

Job 2:7
HEB: וַיֵּצֵא֙ הַשָּׂטָ֔ן מֵאֵ֖ת פְּנֵ֣י
NAS: Then Satan went out from the presence
KJV: So went Satan forth from the presence
INT: went Satan the presence of the LORD

Psalm 109:6
HEB: עָלָ֣יו רָשָׁ֑ע וְ֝שָׂטָ֗ן יַעֲמֹ֥ד עַל־
NAS: over him, And let an accuser stand
KJV: thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand
INT: over A wicked an accuser stand over

[eaglesway]

I believe people in sheol are sleeping, awaiting resurrection. People ion the lake of fire will be looking into the eyes of Jesus(His eyes were as flames Rev 1)- the ultimate soul mirror/heart piercer- where they will have the secrets of their hearts exposed to the light(light is fire to darkness....transforms the and consumes the earthly into the heavenly) leading to repentance(every knee shall bow) and forgives(every tongue confess).

There is no penalty phase which could somehow pay for sins committed. It is for the purpose of awakening and transformation that God disciplines the wicked. That awakening is portrayed in Acts chapter 2

"'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at my right hand,
35until I make your enemies your footstool."'

36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

When a soul is convinced of the Lordship and salvation of Christ through the gospel they are "cut to the heart"- as surely all will be before His mighty throne and in His flaming presence.

they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented(basanos) with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. (Rev 14:10)

Perhaps remotely from the same as basis (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch-stone, i.e. (by analogy) torture -- torment.(Strong)

Strong's definition of "bassanos"(Gr. for "tormented") makes an assumption that "touch-stone" or "basis" is a metaphor for torment. It is rather a metaphor for "assaying" a stone, to get to the core(imo)

This is, to me anyway, is made clear in Hebrews 4:12-16

12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

All things are open to Him with whom we have to do. All things are disposed for the purpose of reconciling all, gathering all things into one in Christ so that God may be all in all. The mysteries of the scriptures do not render well for literalists, which is exactly how the Logos planned it to be.

As carnal people, judgement is seen as "out of anger for the purpose of retribution"

As we grow judgement is seen as corrective and for the purpose of redressing injustices

As spiritually mature people all judgment is seen as awakening repentance and reconciliation for the purpose of union, oneness and transformation into the image of Christ.