Study of Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus & Sheol using Bible Search Results

[darryl]

Hmm, perhaps but the concept is starting to concern me. When people throw something out so that it might end up in the rubbish tip they don't do it with the idea they might go back for it later. It's usually a final, irrevocable decision and thus suggests that consignment by God to Gehenna (Hell) is final. Obviously, that's not an idea that serves UR too well.

it's interesting that the soul n body are said to suffer destruction in Gehenna but never the 'spirit' of  a person...Paul also spoke of a particular mans body being destroyed that his spirit might be saved on the Day of the Lord....very pertinent IMO.

[marie glen]

Hmm, perhaps but the concept is starting to concern me. When people throw something out so that it might end up in the rubbish tip they don't do it with the idea they might go back for it later. It's usually a final, irrevocable decision and thus suggests that consignment by God to Gehenna (Hell) is final. Obviously, that's not an idea that serves UR too well.

I go back and forth between believing the "lake/pond'crucible of fire" is an afterlife temporary refinement process that occurs on and throughout Judgment 'Day'...

Or, thinking it only comes into play at the very end of (long) Judgment 'Day' at which time, or that is, by that time, all having been drawn to Jesus and reconciled to God - thus - no humans in LOF. But that it is annihilation, and w/o God's intervention the end result of all of us.

Which makes sense considering the beast & false prophet - institutions of mankind 'active' at the time of Jesus' return are thrown there, to the 2nd death, in other words never to rise again (hooray!) (Rev 19)

BUT! :Chinscratch: A temporary refining process seems to fit with the devil being thrown there to ages of the ages..

Yet! The 'devil' is not physical, but spiritual only.. So perhaps what would be annihilation for a person, perhaps is not for rebel angels.

But one thing - besides literal burning! - I cannot believe, is God raises all unbelievers - chosen by Him to remain unbelievers until afterlife - to simply toss or dump them into the lake of fire, no matter what it is. Whether it is 'forever' as Et believes or temporary. I just think the whole afterlife hell is old world superstition that is a stronghold of belief, so it colors many things way beyond what we are aware of. So I often find myself reflecting back upon the Old Testament view - or the view it seems to me to be presented, that death is death, but God raises. And the prophets talked about a Kingdom ruled by God upon Earth.. Paradise, the blueprint of God, restored, and this dark comedy being let to (in most part) run its course, is simply His teaching all good from evil - Perhaps it is no coincidence that evil is the very opposite spelling as live.

I do think also that Armageddon will be a lake of fire, as the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were in 1945. And believe it is the gathering of the tares (living at the time). The tares gathered to Armageddon.

[GodIsLove]

Hmm, perhaps but the concept is starting to concern me. When people throw something out so that it might end up in the rubbish tip they don't do it with the idea they might go back for it later. It's usually a final, irrevocable decision and thus suggests that consignment by God to Gehenna (Hell) is final. Obviously, that's not an idea that serves UR too 

it's interesting that the soul n body are said to suffer destruction in Gehenna but never the 'spirit' of  a person...Paul also spoke of a particular mans body being destroyed that his spirit might be saved on the Day of the Lord....very pertinent IMO.

:thumbsup:

[CST]

Wait aren't we supposed to not hate anyone including Hitler and Stalin?

Yup, but I think we can hate the awful things we did. The problem we have is a desire for vengeance and an incapacity to separate what people do from who they are. We always define people according to either their best act or their worst act and one will always eclipse the other.

I think it's good that you wrote "the awful things we did, for humanity is one and we have done some exceedingly awful things..

Dang, ironically I think I meant to write they, if I'd meant we I'd have used 'do' instead of did because we haven't stopped being evil.

I see the fire as Spiritual fire anyways MG, what would torturing someone with literal fire accomplish anyway?

Had a thought recently that the Light of the world, God's Light, had its source in fire. Besides, Strong's, when speaking of light, always has "fire/light" in the definition.

  :thumbsup: Amen.. even the vitality we think of as the "spark" of life.. (which I think is God)

Even if some passages refer to a historical even that already happened, who says it cannot have more than one fulfillment?

   :thumbsup: I think most, if not all (?) prophecy has a short range and more or less 'immediate' fulfillment, and a broad range, 'end' of days fulfillment..

And I think some prophecy has repeated fulfillments..

If verses, or even whole books, only refer to a past historical event, what benefit is that Spiritually speaking? It is like reading a children's story, then concluding how trivial it is by only seeing it as something historical, not something more. The letter of the law, not the Spirit of the law...

Speaking of trials, it speaks of them as not strange. You mean to say that the 70AD destruction happens all the time? Lol. I see it as to say we each are tested in ways that are not strange to us. Yes, that may be different than another, but still have all of our own trials.

Young's has "coming to try you" so I see that supporting more what I just mentioned.

:thumbsup:

Yes, but if in Jesus's day Gehenna is ia literal dump then that is what it primarily is and what you would expect to give it its main meaning fire and teeth gnashing are just picturesque stuff to make the image more emotive.

Hmm, perhaps but the concept is starting to concern me. When people throw something out so that it might end up in the rubbish tip they don't do it with the idea they might go back for it later. It's usually a final, irrevocable decision and thus suggests that consignment by God to Gehenna (Hell) is final. Obviously, that's not an idea that serves UR too well.

it's interesting that the soul n body are said to suffer destruction in Gehenna but never the 'spirit' of  a person...Paul also spoke of a particular mans body being destroyed that his spirit might be saved on the Day of the Lord....very pertinent IMO.

Very given that the context makes clear the soul is invulnerable to absolutely everything else. Can you direct me to when Paul said, biblically the spirit is usually seen as an animating agency and has little to nothing to do with a person or their identity.

[GodIsLove]

1 Corinthians
Young's Literal Translation
to deliver up such a one to the Adversary for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: ..which I think the interlinear suggests "the flesh" not as the body (in this case) but as the lower character and nature, or that is, the nature, character of a person without being in union with God (not yet born again)

..."to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/5-5.htm - I wish I could find an interlinear that is easily copy/pasted..

"the flesh" sarx - https://biblehub.com/greek/4561.htm -

sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sarx
Phonetic Spelling: (sarx)
Short Definition: flesh, body
Definition: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
HELPS Word-studies
4561 sárksproperly, flesh ("carnal"), merely of human origin or empowerment.

[4561 /sárks ("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).]

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

---------------

And "spirit" - https://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.
HELPS Word-studies
4151 pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.

[Any of the above renderings (spirit-Spirit, wind, breath) of 4151 (pneúma) is always theoretically possible (spirit, Spirit, wind, breath). But when the attributive adjective ("holy") is used, it always refers to the Holy Spirit. "Spirit" ("spirit") is by far the most common translation (application) of 4151 (pneúma).

The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) has the same range of meaning as 4151 (pneúma), i.e. it likewise can refer to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.]


Word Origin
from pneó --
-- # G4154 - Definition: I blow, breathe, as the wind. (https://biblehub.com/greek/4154.htm

     :dontknow:

...to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

[DavidFord]

1Co 5:5, based on
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
http://dukhrana.com
and [that] you should deliver this [one] l'satana [to Satan/satan/Adversary/adversaries] l'abdana [for the ruin] d'pagreh [of his body]
d'b'rukh [that in spirit] he will live b'yomeh [in His day] d'Maran [of our Lord] Jesus Christ.

Searching for "root ID" 1929 on
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/lexicon-search
returns 4 words with definitions of
body; flesh; dead body, carcass         
carnal [one]; fleshly            
carnally; according to the flesh, bodily            
carnal; bodily; fleshly

and a Strong's Hebrew H6297.

Strong's Concordance 6297. peger
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6297.htm
peger: corpse, carcass
Original Word: פָּ֫גֶר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: peger
Phonetic Spelling: (peh'gher)
Short Definition: corpses
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pagar
Definition
corpse, carcass
NASB Translation
carcasses (1), corpse (1), corpses (12), dead bodies (3), dead* (2), remains (2).

Searching for Root ID 5 at
http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/lexicon-search
yields the info

Strong's Hebrew H6, CH7; H12, H13; H9.
ABD lose, go astray; destroy, perish, be of no use, be hurt   Aphel: cause to be lost, destroy, ruin      re: sheep = go astray, re: grass = wither, re: wineskins = worn out   
ABDNA loss; destruction; waste, ruin; son of destruction = one who is ruined; see also Abaddon, H11, G3
ABIDA perishing [one], lost [one]; lost; pp used as noun & adj

I'm reminded of
Rom 1:27, "....And male with male they acted with shame, and received in themselves the payment that was just for their error." -- based on Magiera interlinear
Luke 15:13 (KJV) And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

Strong's Concordance 6. abad
https://biblehub.com/str/hebrew/6.htm
abad: to perish
Original Word: אָבַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: abad
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-bad')
Short Definition: perish
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to perish
NASB Translation
annihilate (2), annihilated (1), been lost (1), broken (1), corrupts (1), destroy (33), destroyed (15), destroying (2), destroys (2), destruction (2), dying (2), fail (1), fails (1), give up as lost (1), lacking (1), lost (12), make vanish (1), makes to perish (1), no (2), obliterate (1), perish (61), perished (16), perishes (7), perishing (2), ruined (4), surely perish (3), take (1), utterly destroy (1), wandering (1), wastes (1), wiped (1).

Strong's Concordance 7. abad
https://biblehub.com/str/hebrew/7.htm
abad: to perish
Original Word: אֲבַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: abad
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-ad')
Short Definition: destroy
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to abad
Definition
to perish
NASB Translation
destroy (3), destroyed (3), perish (1).

Strong's Concordance 12. abdan
https://biblehub.com/str/hebrew/12.htm
abdan: destruction
Original Word: אַבְדָן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: abdan
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-dawn')
Short Definition: destroying
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from abad
Definition
destruction
NASB Translation
destroying (1), destruction (1).

Strong's Concordance 13. obdan
https://biblehub.com/str/hebrew/13.htm
obdan: destruction
Original Word: אָבְדַן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: obdan
Phonetic Spelling: (ob-dawn')
Short Definition: destruction
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
the same as abdan, q.v.

Strong's Concordance  9. abedah
https://biblehub.com/str/hebrew/9.htm
abedah: a lost thing
Original Word: אֲבֵדָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: abedah
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-ay-daw')
Short Definition: lost
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from abad
Definition
a lost thing
NASB Translation
lost (1), lost thing (2), what was lost (1).

[DavidFord]

it's interesting that the soul n body are said to suffer destruction in Gehenna but never the 'spirit' of  a person

Mt 10:28 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
And do not have fear of
those who kill the body [pgra],
but are not able to kill the soul [npsha].
Rather, have fear more so of
him who is able to destroy [nubd] the soul [d'l'npsha]
and the body [a'l'pgra] in Gehenna.

Lk 12
4. But I say to you my friends,
do not have fear of those who kill the body [pgra]
and after that they have nothing more to do.
5. But I will show you of whom you should be afraid of:
He whom, after He has killed,
has authority to throw (you) into Gehenna.
Yes, I say to you, of Him-- this one-- have fear.

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/12-5.htm

...the after can also be read as "with"

Of course old world translators would assume after..

But.. Even if it is "after" - Aramaic Bible in Plain English - “But I will show you whom you should fear: that one who after he kills is authorized to cast into Gehenna; yes I say to you, be afraid of this one.”

Even though He can do it.. I don't believe He does..

In Acts 15, when Peter says, the gentiles who received the truth, received the Holy Spirit just like Hebrew believers did - verse 15:9 - "God treated them in the same way that he treated us. They put their faith in him, and he made their hearts pure."

It's my belief this same thing, which telescoped from Israel -> to the nations/gentiles, will telescope from all believers -> to those who rise (initially) not yet saved and thus "still in their sins"... No burning needed, is my belief.

Only at end of what surely? (imo) has to be a very (very) long 'day' of judgment/review of all history, etc, and only at the close of it (imo) will those (still) not believing be cast to the LOF..

...and if they still refuse to bend the knee after all that, they sorely need some time in a crucible of refinement.. But I truly believe the crucible of refinement most after death believers will experience, will be like the one experienced by all of us believers who come to believe on this side of life. I think it's hard to see or entertain though because the preconception of after life torment is so very strong within humanity's psyche..

And sometimes I think the LOF is death/final nonlife, but no humans will go there.. All having come to believe upon JD (judgment 'day') thus their names written in the book of "life"/believing. Does it say anywhere in God's Word that one cannot have their name written in the book after rising? I guess the idea may hinge on how long is Judgment Day.. All just theory of course, on the coming "ages" Jesus spoke of, and which are only briefly outlined in Revelation.

[DavidFord]

Even if it is "after" - Aramaic Bible in Plain English - "But I will show you whom you should fear: that one who after he kills is authorized to cast into Gehenna; yes I say to you, be afraid of this one."
Even though He can do it.. I don't believe He does

Do you think Jesus' warnings about Gehenna were warnings about a non-possibility?

Mt 5 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
21. You have heard that it was said to those before,
you should not kill,
and all that kill are condemned to dina [judgment].
22. But I say to you that,
anyone who provokes to anger his brother without cause
is condemned to dina,
and anyone who should say to his brother, 'Raca!' [(I) spit (on you); or: (you are) spit. Aramaic to Arabic to English produced: foul one]
is condemned to the assembly,
and anyone who should say, "Lela!"[(you are) a nursemaid/ coward]
is condemned to the fire of Gehenna.
....
27. You have heard that it has been said that,
'you should not commit adultery.'
28. But I say to you that,
all who that looks at a woman as lustfully at once has committed adultery in his heart.
29. And if your right eye stumbles you,
pluck it out and cast it from you--
it is better for you that one of your members should perish
and not all of your body be thrown into Gehenna.
30. And if your right hand stumbles you,
cut it off (and) cast it from you--
it is better for you that one (of) your members should perish,
and not all of your body be thrown into Gehenna.
31. It has been said that,
he that puts away his wife shall give to her a kethaba [letter/note] of divorce.'
32. But I say to you that,
any who puts away his wife aside from a case of fornication makes her commit adultery--
and (he) who takes a divorced woman commits adultery.

Mt 10:28
And do not have fear of
those who kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul.
Rather, have fear more so of
him who is able to destroy the soul
and the body in Gehenna.

Mt 18
7. Woe to the ailma [world] because of offenses.
For it is necessary that offenses should come,
but woe to the man by whose hand the offenses come.
8. And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble,
cut it off and cast it (away) from you.
It is better for you to enter into life while lame or while you are maimed,
than while you have two hands or two feet to fall b'nura-d'l'ailm [into-the fire of-to-the world/age, i.e. into the world/age of fire].
9. And if your eye causes you to stumble,
pluck it out and cast it (away) from you.
It is better for you that with one eye you enter into life,
than while you have two eyes to fall into the fire of Gehenna.

Mt 23
15. Woe to you Sapra [Scribes] and Pharisees. Hypocrites!
For you traverse sea and land that you might make one proselyte,
and when he has become (one), you make him the son of Gehenna twice more than you are.
16. Woe to you blind guides!  ....
31. whereby you witness against yourselves
that you are sons of those who killed the nabia [prophets].
32. And you also fill up the measure of your forefathers.
33. Serpents! Offspring of vipers!
How will you flee from the dina [judgment] of Gehenna?

Mk 9
43. Now if your hand offends you, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life maimed,
than though you have two hands (to) go to Gehenna,
44. where 'their worm does not die and their fire does not go out.'
45. And if your foot offends you, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life lame,
than though you have two feet (to) fall into Gehenna,
46. where 'their worm does not die and their fire does not go out.'
47. And if your eye offends you, pluck it out.
It is better for you that with one (of) your eyes you enter into the Kingdom of Allaha,
than though you have two eyes (to) fall into the fire of Gehenna,
48. where 'their worm does not die and their fire does not go out.'

Lk 12
4. But I say to you my friends,
do not have fear of those who kill the body
and after that they have nothing more to do.
5. But I will show you of whom you should be afraid of:
He whom, after He has killed,
has authority to throw (you) into Gehenna.
Yes, I say to you, of Him-- this one-- have fear.