those in Sheol getting what they dished out to others?

[CST]

"A lot of child sex abusers are previously victims of child sex abuse"
Indeed.  And Hitler's atheist father beat him when he was a boy.

"the idea of then inflicting what they did on them and called it justice becomes difficult"
I didn't call it justice.

"there's no reason to think doing to them whatever they did to their victims will produce any sort of remorse or repentance for actions"
Melvin said one guy was regretting having put another in prison.  Maybe the regret was remorse.

"we can already be sure they knew were evil"
People lie to themselves regularly.  There's gradations of confidence in knowing something.

"to use Melvin's repulsive example, b. if my enemy defecates on me, disgusting as that is, it is not the same as someone who is professing to be my friend is defecating on me while also raping me while continuing to maintain they are my friend all while I am a child and they are an adult who I should be able to automatically trust to treat me better. A demon doing this just isn't the same thing."
Melvin said demons mistreating humans took on the appearance of humans. 
God allows demons to harm people this side of the grave; Melvin's account has demons harming people the other side of the grave.  Fallen angels will be judged for their misdeeds, regardless of where they committed them.

Jn 10:10 (based on Younan)
A thief does not come but that (he) may steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may have life,
and they may have something which is abundant.

1Cor 6:3 (KJV) Know ye not that we shall judge angels?.... 

"Not that I've generally heard on demons defecating being non physical being as they are"
I've read in a couple places that demons can take on physical form.  In Melvin's account, non-physical demons were mistreating non-physical humans.

"you are reducing the moral magnitude of what the sex predator actually did into something that can be compensated for simply by them somehow experiencing some sort of equivalence of the what they did"
I didn't say compensated.

"My experience of Hell was a nightmare in which I was in a dark and incredibly empty place, a lot of the experience has passed now but the feelings I remember having were sorrowful and negative and at a level I don't remember ever experiencing in life. What was most palpable about this dream was that I kept waking up but every time I went to sleep I was right back there again. I can't remember ever having another dream which I didn't leave behind upon waking, I've occasionally  had nightmares that have recurred years later but I can't remember ever having another dream that I kept returning to as soon as I went back to sleep.  Eventually I cast a patronus, so to speak, and rose out of this dark place at which point I woke up and next time i went to sleep I didn't experience the Hellish place."
Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I'd advise against bringing Hitler into this because what happened in nazi Germany is way to complicated to reduce purely to him.


"I didn't call it justice"

No, except you did because that's already been done for you. Obviously everyone knows that the whole conversation of Hell is part of the conversation of God's justice, that's why only 'bad' people go there. If you take that out the equation and Mary Poppins could wind up in Hell. The fact hat people in Hell justly deserve to be there and justly deserve what happens to them. That's the whole thrust of the discussion.

"People lie to themselves regularly.  There's gradations of confidence in knowing something."

Quite so, at which point you pul the rug from under yourself because you seem not to understand what that actually means. I can think of two people who are particularly good at lying to themselves; you and Melvin if you are unable to understand what it wrong with what you're proposing here. Obvious, if Melvin is that good and practiced at deceit without even realizing it, obviously what he says will have a 'ring of truth'. That doesn't make it true.

"I've read in a couple places that demons can take on physical form."

Are either of those places the Bible? Because if they're not you're on very shaky ground.

"In Melvin's account, non-physical demons were mistreating non-physical humans."

Non-physical demons defecating on non-physical humans doesn't have a ring of truth to me.

"I didn't say compensated."

I refer you to the top of my reply. You didn't have to say it, it's an unavoidable part of the conversation.

[marie glen]

Sheila!! :friendstu:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :girlheart:

--------------------------------


Without - hopefully - being offensive, I sometimes have to chuckle over ppl's view of a hell.. I think many times it is fantasies of what might befall one's 'enemies'.. Or those folks who just won't listen to one's efforts to share the salvation message - which truth be told, lots of believers believe unless they convince someone of the truth, they will perish. Or worse. So can be very persistent.. then in the heat of the debate or whatnot, can even become a bit obnoxious.. But for whichever reason, can be totally overly persistent..

And these visions of hell can be very convincing I'm sure, man is veRy imaginative. Just look at schizophrenia, very imaginative-what is perceived to be going on and very real to the one 'seeing' it.

I think things which happen to people right here on Earth.. the surface that is - some folks believe 'hell' is in the center of the earth - yes while they are full of peace and joy on the surface, some of their loved ones will be being burned alive forever and ever, with no relief ever.. How this will equate believer's joy being "full" is beyond me. And God who "is love" it seems, will be oblivious to it.

I think there's plenty of hellish things right here on earth and in history.. which satan&co - (the adversary called the god/spirit?/guide?/instigator! of this world) have plenty to be judged over.. Don't they have their fingers in every pie, and play all sides of all issues? Always nudging toward division, thievery, murder, war(s).. horrors of war & other horrors.. Though mankind itself is quite capable of these on their very own..

Personally, I don't pay any mind to visions, good or bad. I figure the bible says to meditate on His word day and night.. And if we do, we will be like being planted by streams of water.. even in old age our leaf will not wither (but will still have in us the sap of vitality.. and the fire and zeal God's Spirit imparts).

Was it Jonothan Edwards who used to preach about visions of hell? people's flesh melting and other details (shades of schizophrenia?) I've seen forums where the forum image is humans being burned alive, which image is designed to win people over into faith in Him (shades of schizophrenia? :laughing7: )

It sure is good to know, God wins all. As will Truth remain standing/alone victorious.

Of course all these images are of a lake of literal fire (not here zeal!) not realizing Revelation says hell (the grave or hades) will be itself thrown to the lake of fire.. Is the lake of fire going to be cast into the lake of fire? not too logical..

"Thy Word is Truth" which yes is Jesus, but also we are to rightly divide the Word.. And it is profitable for learning, for teaching, etc.. Is the vision we can trust.. If there were 'hell' I have to think every prophet and teacher/preacher of the bible would openly and obviously warn against it! (As brother Laz pointed out in his thread, "heaven yes, hell no" (I think the name of it is).

Whereas the gehenna('s) of Jesus' words, are obviously referring to judgment upon criminals - better they cast their hand or eye away, than their whole body be tossed to Gehenna Valley where the bodies of criminals were burned and kept burned to prevent putrefaction abounding.. And the converts of Pharisees becoming sons of Gehenna.. again, criminals (or worse).. (Recognizing Jesus was in Israel, speaking to Israel... Not that it's unbelievable to have also a wider application one day, when Jesus returns with/midst(?) fire 2 Thess 1?:7,8.. Fire, I believe, caused by man.)

And.. If the choice of who comes to the faith during this life, is up to God.. He chooses - then why would those not chosen by God to come to the faith during this brief lifetime, be subjected to judgment far exceeding what judgment 'the elect' / chosen by God to believe now, experienced in our conversion and process of purification?

p.s. - it's my belief the dangers spoken of by bible prophecy of things coming are also a fire.. The more stable a believer is in truth, the less chance of those troubles coming upon one unawares, surprising them, snaring them.. A staunch hate preacher, I think, will be saved, but so as by fire..

[sheila]

 :girlheart:

[DavidFord]

the gehenna('s) of Jesus' words, are obviously referring to judgment upon criminals - better they cast their hand or eye away, than their whole body be tossed to Gehenna Valley where the bodies of criminals were burned and kept burned to prevent putrefaction abounding

"referring to judgment upon criminals" 
Are you aware of any societies that criminalized name-calling?

Mt 5 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
21. You have heard that it was said to those before,
you should not kill,
and all that kill are condemned to dina [judgment].
22. But I say to you that,
anyone who provokes to anger his brother without cause
is condemned to dina,
and anyone who should say to his brother, 'Raca!' [(I) spit (on you); or: (you are) spit. Aramaic to Arabic to English produced: foul one]
is condemned to the assembly,
and anyone who should say, "Lela!"[(you are) a nursemaid/ coward]
is condemned to the fire of Gehenna.

[DavidFord]

I'd advise against bringing Hitler into this because what happened in nazi Germany is way to complicated to reduce purely to him.
"I didn't call it justice"
No, except you did because that's already been done for you. Obviously everyone knows that the whole conversation of Hell is part of the conversation of God's justice, that's why only 'bad' people go there. If you take that out the equation and Mary Poppins could wind up in Hell. The fact hat people in Hell justly deserve to be there and justly deserve what happens to them. That's the whole thrust of the discussion.
"People lie to themselves regularly.  There's gradations of confidence in knowing something."
Quite so, at which point you pul the rug from under yourself because you seem not to understand what that actually means. I can think of two people who are particularly good at lying to themselves; you and Melvin if you are unable to understand what it wrong with what you're proposing here. Obvious, if Melvin is that good and practiced at deceit without even realizing it, obviously what he says will have a 'ring of truth'. That doesn't make it true.
"I've read in a couple places that demons can take on physical form."
Are either of those places the Bible? Because if they're not you're on very shaky ground.
"In Melvin's account, non-physical demons were mistreating non-physical humans."
Non-physical demons defecating on non-physical humans doesn't have a ring of truth to me.
"I didn't say compensated."
I refer you to the top of my reply. You didn't have to say it, it's an unavoidable part of the conversation.

"Non-physical demons defecating on non-physical humans doesn't have a ring of truth to me"
Do you think non-physical words can damage non-physical human spirits?

I fail to see any allusions to/ invocations of 'compensation'-- nor 'justice'-- here:
Moab was God's washpot re: his wayward Israel;
demons in hell are God's washpot re: those wayward sons of God that wound up in hell.

Psalm 60 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+60&version=NKJV
1 O God, You have cast us off;
You have broken us down;
You have been displeased;
Oh, restore us again!  ....
3 You have shown Your people hard things;
You have made us drink the wine of confusion. ....
8 Moab is My washpot;
Over Edom I will cast My shoe;
Philistia, shout in triumph because of Me."

Hebrews 12:8 (from Aramaic), http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And if ye be without the correction with which every one is corrected,
ye are aliens, and not children.
(Murdock) But if ye are without that chastisement, with which every one is chastened,
ye are become strangers and not sons.

Rev 3:19
(Etheridge) All those whom I love, I reprove and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
(Murdock) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.
Be emulous therefore, and repent.
(Lamsa) I rebuke and chastise all those whom I love:
be zealous, therefore, and repent.
(KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.

Hosea 6 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hosea+6&version=NKJV
6 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

Do you think Melvin is:  lying?  recollecting a hallucination?  recounting a drug trip?

"Are either of those places the Bible?" 
No.  I was thinking of Rebecca Brown's _He Came to Set the Captives Free_
https://www.amazon.com/He-Came-Set-Captives-Free/dp/0883683237/
and someplace else.  In a Darren Wilson film (probably one of the 3 mentioned below), a woman who had been a bride of satan describes seeing him once.
https://www.amazon.com/Furious-Love-Wanderlust-Productions/dp/B003KOPF80/
https://www.amazon.com/Finger-God-Darren-Wilson/dp/B00116495O/
https://www.amazon.com/Father-Lights-Darren-Wilson/dp/B009ISQ3DI/

There's a story of Smith Wigglesworth once seeing the devil:
http://janetkatherinesmith.blogspot.com/2012/10/they-saw-deviland-glory.html
"On one occasion Wigglesworth awoke during the night aware of a satanic presence. Looking across the room, he saw the Devil himself standing there. Wigglesworth said to Satan, 'Oh, it's only you.' Then he turned over and went back to sleep"

The Accuser had a physical form in the Garden of Eden.  Which if any of these have taken on a physical form, in your view?: 
some guardian angels.  God the Father.  God the Son.  God the Holy Spirit.  satan.

[CST]

You know you're editing of Psalm 60 abuses the text somewhat. David was trying to appeal to God to grant Israel victory over their enemies one of which was Moab. Israel's battle against their enemies clearly wasn't going so well but it clearly isn't due to God being defeated by any of them. Moab isn't Israel in this model. Israel is Israel. Moab is the target of the wrath here not Israel.

If you think demons in hell are God''s washpot then it's the demons who will be the target of God's wrath.

Do I think that non-physical demons can harm non-physical human spirits? Well I don't actually believe in literal demons but if there were such things yes I do but by methods that could not be compared to defecating on people or giving a lifelong burglar swaths of possessions. Allowing them to bed in and then stealing them from him.

And I don't care what Melvin is doing all three of those options mean he is equally delivering falsehood and thus we are free to discern said falsehood and obligated to reject it.

"The Accuser had a physical form in the Garden of Eden."

Actually that is disputed. I've read some pseudepigraphal versions of the story where the serpent is not in fact Satan but Satan merely instructs the serpent on what to do.

[DavidFord]

You know you're editing of Psalm 60 abuses the text somewhat. David was trying to appeal to God to grant Israel victory over their enemies one of which was Moab. Israel's battle against their enemies clearly wasn't going so well but it clearly isn't due to God being defeated by any of them. Moab isn't Israel in this model. Israel is Israel. Moab is the target of the wrath here not Israel.

Moab appears in Ps 60 in a remark attributed to God.

Psalm 60 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ps+60&version=NIV
For the director of music. To the tune of "The Lily of the Covenant." A miktam of David. ....
6 God has spoken from his sanctuary:
    "In triumph I will parcel out Shechem
    and measure off the Valley of Sukkoth.
7 Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine;
    Ephraim is my helmet,
    Judah is my scepter.
8 Moab is my washbasin,
    on Edom I toss my sandal;
    over Philistia I shout in triumph."

If you think demons in hell are God"s washpot then it's the demons who will be the target of God's wrath.

I do think demons will be targets of God's wrath.

Revelation 20:10, http://www.dukhrana.com
(Murdock) And the Accuser [Aramaic:  Akelqartsa] who seduced them, was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where also were the beast of prey and the false prophet: and they shall be tormented....

Do I think that non-physical demons can harm non-physical human spirits? Well I don't actually believe in literal demons but if there were such things yes I do but by methods that could not be compared to defecating on people or giving a lifelong burglar swaths of possessions. Allowing them to bed in and then stealing them from him.

Do you think Jesus believed in literal demons?

I've read some pseudepigraphal versions of the story where the serpent is not in fact Satan but Satan merely instructs the serpent on what to do.

Do you agree with me that in the Genesis account, satan had a physical form in the Garden of Eden?

Genesis 3 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+3&version=KJV
3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?  ....
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.  ....
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[CST]

You know you're editing of Psalm 60 abuses the text somewhat. David was trying to appeal to God to grant Israel victory over their enemies one of which was Moab. Israel's battle against their enemies clearly wasn't going so well but it clearly isn't due to God being defeated by any of them. Moab isn't Israel in this model. Israel is Israel. Moab is the target of the wrath here not Israel.

Moab appears in Ps 60 in a remark attributed to God.

Psalm 60 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ps+60&version=NIV
For the director of music. To the tune of "The Lily of the Covenant." A miktam of David. ....
6 God has spoken from his sanctuary:
    "In triumph I will parcel out Shechem
    and measure off the Valley of Sukkoth.
7 Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine;
    Ephraim is my helmet,
    Judah is my scepter.
8 Moab is my washbasin,
    on Edom I toss my sandal;
    over Philistia I shout in triumph."

If you think demons in hell are God"s washpot then it's the demons who will be the target of God's wrath.

I do think demons will be targets of God's wrath.

Revelation 20:10, http://www.dukhrana.com
(Murdock) And the Accuser [Aramaic:  Akelqartsa] who seduced them, was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where also were the beast of prey and the false prophet: and they shall be tormented....

Do I think that non-physical demons can harm non-physical human spirits? Well I don't actually believe in literal demons but if there were such things yes I do but by methods that could not be compared to defecating on people or giving a lifelong burglar swaths of possessions. Allowing them to bed in and then stealing them from him.

Do you think Jesus believed in literal demons?

I've read some pseudepigraphal versions of the story where the serpent is not in fact Satan but Satan merely instructs the serpent on what to do.

Do you agree with me that in the Genesis account, satan had a physical form in the Garden of Eden?

Genesis 3 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+3&version=KJV
3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?  ....
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.  ....
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Yes, but in a remark in which He also calls Ephraim his helmet and Judah His sceptre. This doesn't sound like Israel is being wayward at this point but rather they are to be employed to to execute His wrath on those that are being wayward; Moab and Edom and Philistia. But only in His own good time, obviously.

If demons are the target of God's wrath there'll have a bit of trouble tormenting other humans as they'll be a bit preoccupied. Of course, I have now learn that you are using Hell for Sheol, which is different, because you currently lean towards annihilation as the final fate of they wicked. This seems to be something you do to reconcile your belief Melvin is correct in his report with you belief in ED. This is a bit of a problem because it goes against everything the Bible teaches about Sheol and demons. Demons are never presented anywhere but in possession of things in the Bible, except when they are between possessions. There's no evidence that demons ever go to Sheol in this age. They travel the Earth possession things or seeking things to possess. Sheol isn't presented as having demons in it ever.

I don't know what Jesus believed about demons and don't think it matters. He believed that He could heal people from the effects of what ever displayed as demon possession and sure enough He was right and was able to do so. Faith in the ability of the cure is more important than understand exactly what you're curing.

No, I don't believe Satan had a physical form in Eden because I don't believe in reading the Eden narrative literally.

[Dandelion]

I believe demons are very real. They are discussed many times in the Bible.

Demons are what we are in battle with, not other people. We are to love our fellow man (or woman), even if they are considered 'enemies'.
There are no real human enemies in God's kingdom.

Ephesians 6:

10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I think demons try to convince us that they are not 'real'. That makes life much easier for them.

I don't think demons are going to torture people in the Lake of Fire, or wherever we go, after death. I do not believe we are tortured for the sake of revenge, but for the sake of correction, and to understand how our actions have ripples and consequences, both for us and for others.
Revenge is God's, but I don't believe God wants revenge, in our earthly way of viewing revenge. God wants to transform us into Christ-like creations. That is always His goal, and He does what He needs to do to that end. Love must be perfected in each of us.

D.

[DavidFord]

I don't know what Jesus believed about demons and don't think it matters. He believed that He could heal people from the effects of what ever displayed as demon possession and sure enough He was right and was able to do so. Faith in the ability of the cure is more important than understand exactly what you're curing.

"I don't know what Jesus believed about demons"
Jesus believed that demons exist, and believed that demons cause people problems, and Jesus urged his followers to emulate his example in expelling demons.  Have you ever expelled any demons?

Outline
woman with a spirit of infirmity preventing her from straightening up for 18 years
father's only son with demons of muteness, deafness, and suicide
heathen Canaanite woman's daughter vexed by a demon
man with demons of muteness and blindness
man with a demon
man with a demon of muteness
man with a Legion of demons prompting homelessness, nakedness, self-cutting, and unusual physical strength
girl with a spirit of divination
man with a demon behind unusual physical strength
general expulsions of demons
Jesus commissioning others to expel demons:  the 12, the 70, and later generations of Christians

Glossary
rukha:  wind, _spirit_, breath
unclean rukha:  evil spirit, i.e. a demon
deewa:  demon
shada:  demon

woman with a spirit of infirmity preventing her from straightening up for 18 years
Lk 13 (based on Paul Younan, peshi+ta.org, dukhrana.com)
10. Now while Yeshua [Jesus] taught on the Shabbata [Sabbath] in one of the assemblies, 11. there was there a woman who had a rukha of infirmity eighteen years. And she was bent down and she was not able to straighten herself at all. 12. And Yeshua saw her and called her and said to her,
"Woman, you are freed from your infirmity."
13. And he placed his hand on her, and she straightened herself immediately and glorified Allaha. 14. But the leader of the assembly answered while he was angered because Yeshua had healed on the Shabbata, and said to the assembly, "Six are the days in which it is right to labor in them. You should come (and) be healed, but not on the day of the Shabbata." 15. But Yeshua answered and said to him,
"Hypocrite!
Does not each one of you on the Shabbata
loose his ox or his donkey from the stable
and goes (and) waters it?
16. And this (woman) because she is a daughter of Awraham,
and Akelqartza [the Accuser] has bound her behold eighteen years,
was it not right to free her from this bondage
on the day of the Shabbata?"

father's only son with demons of muteness, deafness, and suicide
Mt 17
14. And when they came towards the crowds, a man approached him and bowed down on his knees, 15. and said to him, "Mari [my lord], have mercy upon me, for my son-- who has a demon of lunacy and is badly afflicted-- many times he has fallen in the fire, and many times in water. 16. And I brought him to your talmida [students/disciples], and they were not able to heal him."
[PY had rendered one idiom present 'a devil.' The literal words are 'bar-agara'/ 'son of a rooftop/terrace,' which Lamsa interprets as being an epileptic and Errico interprets as being a lunatic. GB gives "my son has a lunatic demon." Hogg notes that the Syriac/Aramaic 'son of the roof' means 'demon of lunacy.']
17. Yeshua answered and said,
"Oh generation which is crooked and not mahaymina [faithful]!
Until when must I be with you?
And until when must I endure you?
Bring him here to me."
18. And Yeshua rebuked it, and the shada went out from him. And the boy was healed from that moment. 19. Then the talmida drew near towards Yeshua (while he was) alone and said to him, "Why were we not able to heal him?" 20. Yeshua said to them,
"Because of your unbelief.
For amain I say to you that
if (you) had faith in you like a grain of mustard seed,
you could say to this tuora [mountain],
'move away from here,' and it would move.
And not a thing would be able to prevail over you.
21. But this kind does not go out except by fasting and by prayer."
Mk 9
17. And one from the crowd answered and said, "Malpana [Teacher], I brought my son to you because he has a rukha that does not speak. 18. And whenever it overtakes him, it knocks him down and he foams (at the mouth) and gnashes his teeth and becomes paralyzed. And I asked your talmida to cast him out, and they were not able." 19. Yeshua answered and said to him,
"Oh generation that is not mahaymina [faithful]!
How long must I remain with you,
and how long must I endure you?
Bring him to me."
20. And they brought him to him and when the rukha saw him, it knocked him down at once, and he fell on the ground and was violently shaken and he foamed (at the mouth). 21. And Yeshua asked his father,
"How long has it been since he has been this way?"
He said to him, "Since his youth, 22. and many times it has cast him into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But whatever you are able (to do), have compassion on me and help me!" 23. Yeshua said to him,
"If you are able to believe,
anything is possible to be,
for him who believes."
24. And at once the abba [father] of the boy cried out while mourning and said, "I believe, mari [my lord]. Help the lack of my faith!" 25. And when the people that saw Yeshua ran and gathered around him, he rebuked that unclean rukha and said to him,
"Dumb rukha that does not speak,
I command that you come out from him,
and never enter him again!"
26. And that shada cried out greatly, and he bruised him and came out. And he was like a dead man so that many said that, "He is dead!" 27. But Yeshua took him by his hand and raised him. 28. Now when Yeshua entered the house, his talmida asked him privately, "Why were we not able to cast him out?" 29. He said to them,
"This kind is not able to be cast out by
anything except by fasting and by prayer."
Lk 9
37. And it happened (that) on the next day when they descended from the tuora [mountain], large crowds met up with them. 38. And a certain man from the crowd cried out and he said, "Malpana [Teacher], I beseech you, take notice of me! He is my only son to me, 39. and a rukha seizes him and suddenly he cries out and gnashes his teeth and foams, and with difficulty it departs from him when it has tormented him. 40. And I beseeched your talmida to cast it out, and they were not able." 41. And Yeshua answered and said,
"Oh generation that is not mahaymina [faithful] and is perverse!
How long must I be among you and endure you?
Bring your son here."
42. And while he was bringing him, that deewa cast him down and bruised him, and Yeshua rebuked that unclean rukha and he healed the boy and gave him to his father.
43. And all of them were amazed by the greatness of Allaha.  ....

heathen Canaanite woman's daughter vexed by a demon
Mt 15
21. And Yeshua went out from there and came to the border of Tsur and of Tsidon. 22. And behold, a Canaanite woman from those borders came out while crying and saying, "Have mercy on me mari [my lord], the Son of Dawid. My daughter is seriously vexed by a shada." 23. But he did not answer her a word. And his talmida drew near beseeching him and saying, "Send her away because she cries after us." 24. But he answered and said to them,
"I have not been sent except to the sheep
which went astray from the house of Israel."
25. And she came (and) sagedt him [bowed or prostrated before him, perhaps in worship] and said, "Mari [my lord], help me!" 26. He said to her,
"It is not good to take the bread of the children
and to cast it to the dogs."
27. And she said, "Yes, mari [my lord], (but) even the dogs eat from the crumbs which fall from the tables of their masters and live." 28. Then Yeshua said to her,
"Oh woman! Great is your faith.
Let it be to you as you desire."
And her daughter was healed from that moment.
Mk 7
24. Yeshua arose from there and came to the border of Tsur and of Tsidon, and entered into a certain house, and was not desiring for anyone to know about him. And he was not able to hide himself. 25. For immediately a certain woman whose daughter had an unclean rukha heard about him, and she came (and) fell before his feet. 26. Now that woman was a kanapta [heathen/ foreigner] from Phoenicia in Syria, and was entreating him to cast out the shada from her daughter.[Greek manuscripts erroneously say the woman was Greek. This sets up an unnecessary contradiction with Mt 15:21+, where she is called a Canaanite.] 27. And Yeshua said to her,
"First allow the children to be satisfied,
for it is not right to take the bread of the children
and throw it to the dogs."
28. But she answered and said to him, "Yes mari [my lord], even the dogs eat from under the tables the crumbs of the children."
29. Yeshua said to her,
"Because of this word (you said), go.
The shada has gone out from your daughter."
30. And she went to her house and found her daughter lying on a pallet, and shadah [her shada] was gone from her.

man with demons of muteness and blindness
Mt 12
22. They then brought to him a certain possessed man who was mute and blind, and he healed him, so that the mute and blind man could speak and could see. 23. And all the crowds were marveling and were saying that, "Is this not the Son of Dawid?" 24. But when the Pharisees heard, they said, "This (man) does not cast out shada but by Baal-Zebub, the head of deewa." 25. But Yeshua knew their thoughts and said to them,
"Any kingdom
that is divided against itself
will be destroyed,
and any house and medintha [city]
that is divided against itself
will not stand.
26-28.
And if Satana casts out Satana,
he is divided against himself.
How then does his kingdom stand?
And if I cast out deewa by Baal-Zebub,
with what do your sons cast them out?
Because of this they will be judges to you.
And if by the Rukha of Allaha I cast out deewa,
the kingdom of Allaha has come near to you.
Lk 11
14. And as he was casting out a shada that was dumb, it happened that when that shada went out, that dumb man spoke and the crowds were amazed. 15. And some of them said, "This (man) casts out deewa by Baal-Zebub, the head of deewa." 16. But others while tempting him were asking (for) a sign from Heaven (from) him. 17. But Yeshua who was aware (of) their thoughts said to them,
"Every kingdom that is divided against itself
will become desolate,
and a house that is divided against its own nature
will fail.
18. And if Satana is divided against himself,
how will his kingdom stand?
Because you say that I cast out deewa by Baal-Zebub,
19. and if I cast out deewa by Baal-Zebub,
by whom do your sons cast (them) out?
Because of this they will be judges to you.
20. But if I cast out deewa by the finger of Allaha,
the Kingdom of Allaha, it is drawing near to you.

man with a demon
Mk 1
23. And there was a man in their assembly in whom was an unclean rukha, and he cried out 24. and said, "What have we to do with you, Yeshua the Nasraya? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are. You are the Holy One of Allaha!" And Yeshua rebuked him and said,
"Shut your mouth,
and come out from him!"
25. And the unclean rukha threw him down and cried out in a loud voice and came out of him. 27. And all of them were astonished and were asking each other and saying that, "What is this, and what is this new teaching? For with shultana [authority] he even commands unclean rukha, and they obey him!"
Lk 4
33. And in the assembly there was a man who had in him a rukha of an unclean shada, and he cried out in a loud voice 34. and said, "Leave me alone! What have we to do with each other, Yeshua the Nasraya? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are. You are the Holy One of Allaha!" 35. And Yeshua rebuked him and said,
"Shut your mouth
and come out from him!"
And the shada threw him down in the midst and departed from him, though he did not harm him at all. 36. And a great amazement seized every man, and they were speaking with one another and saying, "What indeed is this message, that with shultana [authority] and with power he commands unclean rukha and they depart?!"

man with a demon of muteness
Mt 9
32. And when Yeshua went out they brought a mute to him that had a deewa in him. 33. And after the deewa went out, that mute spoke and the crowds were amazed and they said, "Not ever has it been seen such in Israel." 34. But the Pharisees were saying, "He casts out deewa by the chief of deewa."

man with a Legion of demons prompting homelessness, nakedness, self-cutting, and unusual physical strength
Mt 8
28. And when Yeshua came to the other side, to the place of the Gadarenes, two possessed (ones) met him who were coming out from the cemetery-- very evil, so that no man was able to cross over by that way. 29. And they cried out and said, "What have we to do with each other, Yeshua, Son of Allaha? Have you come here before the time to torment us?" 30. And there was a distance from them a large herd of pigs that was feeding. 31. And these shada were beseeching him and said, "If you cast us out, allow us to go to the herd of pigs." 32. Yeshua said to them
"Go!"
and at once they went out and entered into the pigs, and all that herd went straight over a cliff and fell into the sea, and they died in the sea.
Mk 5
1. And he came to the other side of the sea, to the region of the Gadarenes. 2. And when he went out from the boat, a man who had an unclean rukha in him happened upon him from the cemetery, 3. and he was dwelling in the cemetery. And no man was able to bind him with chains, because whenever he was bound with fetters and with chains, he would break the chains and he would cut the fetters and no man was able to subdue him. 5. And always during the night and during the day he was in the cemetery and in the tuora [mountains], and he would cry out and cut himself with rocks. And when he saw Yeshua from afar, he ran (and) saged him.[ran and bowed or prostrated before him, perhaps in worship] 7. And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with you, Yeshua the Son of The Most High Allaha? I adjure you by Allaha that you not torment me." 8. For he was saying to him,
"Unclean rukha, come out from the man!"
9. And he asked him,
"What is your name?"
He said to him, "Our name is Legion, because we are many." 10. And he was entreating him greatly not to send him out of the country. 11. Now there was there a large herd of pigs that were feeding near the tuora [mountain]. 12. And those shada were entreating him and saying, "Send us upon those pigs that we might attack them." 13. And he permitted them, and those unclean rukha departed and attacked the pigs. And that herd ran to a steep place and fell into the sea, and about two thousand were drowned in the water.
Lk 8
27. And when he went out onto land, a certain man from the medintha [city] caught up to him in whom had been a deewa for a long time. And he would not wear clothing and he would not dwell in a house, but in the cemetery. 28. And when he saw Yeshua, he cried out and fell down before him and in a loud voice said, "What have we to do with each other, Yeshua, the Son of the Most High Allaha? I beseech you, do not torment me." 29. For Yeshua was commanding to him-- to the unclean rukha-- to go out from the man. For much time had passed since he was held captive by him. And he was bound with chains and he was restrained with bonds, but he would break his bonds and would be driven by the shada into the wilderness. 30. And Yeshua asked him,
"What is your name?"
He said to him, "Legion," because many deewa had entered into him. 31. And they were beseeching him that he would not command them to go to the abyss. 32. And there was there a herd of numerous swine that was feeding on the tuora, and they were beseeching him to permit them to enter into the swine. And he permitted them. 33. And the shada went out from the man and entered in the swine. And that whole herd rushed to a cliff and fell into the lake and they drowned.

[DavidFord]

girl with a spirit of divination
Acts 16
16. And it happened that while we were going to the house of prayer, a certain maiden met up with us who had a rukha of divination, and she made her masters much commerce by the divination that she was divining. 17. And she was following after Polous [Paul] and after us, and she was crying out and said, "These men are the servants of Him-- of Allaha the exalted! And they preach to you the path of life!" 18. And thus she was doing many days. And Polous was angered and said to her-- to that rukha-- "I command you to depart from her in the name of Yeshua the Meshikha [Messiah]!" And at that moment it departed.

man with a demon behind unusual physical strength
Acts 19 (NKJV, biblegateway.com)
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches." 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.  15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"  16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

general expulsions of demons
Mt 8
16. Now when it became evening, they brought to him many possessed and he cast out their deewa by a word, and all of those that were badly afflicted-- he healed them, 17. so that might be fulfilled that which was spoken through Eshaya the nabia [prophet] who said that,
"He will take our sorrows
and he will bear our illnesses."
Mk 1
34. And he healed many who were severely diseased with diverse weaknesses. And he cast out many deewa, and he did not allow the deewa to speak, because they knew him.  ....  39. And he would preach in all their assemblies in all (of) Galeela and cast out shada.
Lk 4
41. And also shada were departing from many, while crying out and saying that, "You are the Meshikha [Messiah], the Son of Allaha!" And he would rebuke them and he would not allow them to say that they knew that he was the Meshikha.
Acts 5
15. They brought out the sick while lying on pallets into the markets so that when Shimon [Simon Peter] should come, that at least his shadow might rest on them. 16. Now many came to them from other medintha [cities] that were around Urishlim while bringing the sick and those who had unclean rukha. And all of them were healed.

Jesus commissioning others to expel demons:  the 12, the 70, and later generations of Christians
Mt 10:1, 8
And he called (on) his twelve talmida [students/disciples] and gave them shultana [authority] over unclean rukha, that they may cast them out, and to heal every affliction and disease.  ....  Heal the sick and cleanse the lepers and cast out deewa.  Freely you have received, freely give.
Mk 6
7 And he called his twelve and began to send them two by two, and he gave them shultana over unclean rukha to cast (them) out.  .... 12. And they went out and preached that (men) should repent. 13. And many shada were cast out, and they were anointing many (who were) sick with oil and they were healing them.
Lk 9
1. And Yeshua called his twelve and gave to them power and shultana [authority] over all shada and to heal sickness. 2. And he sent them to preach the Kingdom of Allaha and to heal the sick.  ....  6. And the Shelikha [sent ones/ Apostles] departed and were going around in the villages and in the medintha and were preaching hope and healing in every place.
Lk 10
1. After these things, Yeshua appointed seventy from his other talmida [students/ disciples] and sent them two by two before his face to all regions and medintha that he was about to go (to). 2. And he said to them,  ....
3. Go! Behold, I send you as sheep among wolves. ....
8. And into whatever medintha [city] that you enter,
and they receive you,
eat whatever that they set before you.
9. And heal those who are ill in it and say to them,
'The Kingdom of Allaha is (drawing) near to you.'  ....
17. And those seventy whom he had sent returned with great joy and said to him, "Maran, even shada were subject to us by your name!" 18. And he said to them,
"I did see him, Satana, falling like lightning from heaven.
19. Behold, I give shultana [authority] to you
to be tread(ing) on snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy,
and nothing will harm you.
20. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that shada are subject to you,
rather be glad that your names are written in heaven."
Mt 28
18. And Yeshua drew near and spoke with them and said to them,
"All shultana [authority] in heaven and on earth is given to me.
And as Abbi [my Father] has sent me,
I send you.
19. Go therefore (and) make talmida (of) all nations,
and baptize them in the name (of) Abba [the Father] and (of) the Son and (of) the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness].
20. And teach them to keep all that I have commanded you.
And behold, I (am) with you all the days until the end of the ailma [world]."
Amain.
John 14 
12. Amain, amain I say to you that,
whoever believes in me,
these works that I do,
he will do also,
and will do more than these,
because I go to Abba [the Father].
13. And whatever you ask in my name,
I will do for you,
that Abba might be glorified by His Son.
14. And if you ask of me in my name,
I will do it.
15. If you love me,
keep my commandments.
Mk 16
15. And he said to them,
"Go into all the ailma [world] and preach
my Sebartha [message of hope/ good news] to all of creation.
16. Whoever believes and is baptized will live,
and whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17. And these signs will follow those who believe in my name:
they will cast out shada
and they will speak in new tongues,
18. and they will handle serpents,
and if they should drink a deadly poison it will not harm them.
And they will place their hands on the sick,
and they will be healed."

[DavidFord]

Yes, but in a remark in which He also calls Ephraim his helmet and Judah His sceptre. This doesn't sound like Israel is being wayward at this point but rather they are to be employed to to execute His wrath on those that are being wayward; Moab and Edom and Philistia. But only in His own good time, obviously.

It sounds to me like the passage has God laying claim to _everybody_.  God did, after all, make everybody.  Including Satan.

Psalm 60 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2060&version=NABRE
8 [c]In the sanctuary God promised:
    "I will exult, will apportion Shechem;
    the valley of Succoth I will measure out.
9 Gilead is mine, mine is Manasseh;
    Ephraim is the helmet for my head,
    Judah, my own scepter.
10 [e]Moab is my washbowl;
    upon Edom I cast my sandal.
I will triumph over Philistia."
60:8 I will...apportion...measure out: God lays claim to these places. The valley of Succoth: probably the lower stretch of the Jabbok valley.
60:10 ....Upon Edom I cast my sandal: an ancient legal gesture of taking possession of land.

Mt 22:21 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
They were saying, "Casear." He said to them,
"Therefore give to Caesar that which is Casear's,
and to Allaha that which is Allaha's."

Lk 4
5. And Satana took him [Yeshua] up to a high tuora [mountain] and showed him all the kingdoms of the earth in a short period of time. 6. And Akelqartza said to him, "I will give to you all this shultana [authority] and shubkheh [its glory] that is delivered to me, and I can give it to whomever I desire. 7. If therefore thesagud [you prostrate yourself or bow down in worship] before me, all of it will be yours." 8. But Yeshua answered and said to him,
"It is written that,
thesagud [you should worship] MrYa [Master YHWH] Allahak [your Allaha],
and you should serve Him alone.'"

If demons are the target of God's wrath there'll have a bit of trouble tormenting other humans as they'll be a bit preoccupied.

Exactly.  The demons tormenting humans in hell will at some point cease doing so.  Hell will at some point cease to exist.

Of course, I have now learn that you are using Hell for Sheol, which is different, because you currently lean towards annihilation as the final fate of they wicked.

Different-- how so?  When the NT was translated from Aramaic into Greek, 'hades' generally replaced 'sheol.'

This seems to be something you do to reconcile your belief Melvin is correct in his report with you belief in ED.

These beliefs are consistent: demons are tormenting humans in hell, and those humans will at some point get into heaven.
These beliefs are consistent:  demons are tormenting humans in hell, and those humans will at some point get annihilated.

This is a bit of a problem because it goes against everything the Bible teaches about Sheol and demons. Demons are never presented anywhere but in possession of things in the Bible, except when they are between possessions. There's no evidence that demons ever go to Sheol in this age. They travel the Earth possession things or seeking things to possess. Sheol isn't presented as having demons in it ever.

What are some instances where "demons are... in possession of things in the Bible"?
"Sheol isn't presented as having demons in it ever"
There's far more to the spiritual world than what's explicitly stated in the Bible.

No, I don't believe Satan had a physical form in Eden because I don't believe in reading the Eden narrative literally.

Do you think Jesus saw Satan falling like lightning from heaven?

Luke 10
17. And those seventy whom he had sent returned with great joy and said to him, "Maran [our Lord], even shada [demons] were subject to us by your name!" 18. And he [Yeshua] said to them,
"I did see him, Satana, falling like lightning from heaven.
19. Behold I give shultana [authority] to you
to be tread(ing) on snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy,
and nothing will harm you.
20. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that shada are subject to you,
rather be glad that your names are written in heaven."

[CST]

I believe demons are very real. They are discussed many times in the Bible.

Demons are what we are in battle with, not other people. We are to love our fellow man (or woman), even if they are considered 'enemies'.
There are no real human enemies in God's kingdom.

Ephesians 6:

10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I think demons try to convince us that they are not 'real'. That makes life much easier for them.

I don't think demons are going to torture people in the Lake of Fire, or wherever we go, after death. I do not believe we are tortured for the sake of revenge, but for the sake of correction, and to understand how our actions have ripples and consequences, both for us and for others.
Revenge is God's, but I don't believe God wants revenge, in our earthly way of viewing revenge. God wants to transform us into Christ-like creations. That is always His goal, and He does what He needs to do to that end. Love must be perfected in each of us.

D.

Yes, but that the problem when Jesus tells us to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us so far as I can tell He doesn't restrict that to human enemies. There's nothing in the language that says it only means humans and, obviously, Satan and the demons are the primary persecutors of humanity. Yet we obviously conclude we aren't meant to do good for them because that would seem to mean helping them persecute people. Yet, I repeat, there is nothing, so far as I can tell, in the text of what Jesus says that restricts what He is saying to humans.

Disbelieving in demons shouldn't make it easy for them, we know this. It's disbelieving in God that makes it easy for them.

[CST]

I don't know what Jesus believed about demons and don't think it matters. He believed that He could heal people from the effects of what ever displayed as demon possession and sure enough He was right and was able to do so. Faith in the ability of the cure is more important than understand exactly what you're curing.

"I don't know what Jesus believed about demons"
Jesus believed that demons exist, and believed that demons cause people problems, and Jesus urged his followers to emulate his example in expelling demons.  Have you ever expelled any demons?

You can't just boldly claim that Jesus believed demons existed when you have the same evidence I do. And even if did I still suspect it was either due to the fact that the education of His society taught Him to believe in demons or because He had direct divine knowledge of demons which far supersedes our own. How are we supposed to believe in demons when the Bible doesn't even tell us what demons are?

And you don't need to throw all the biblical references to demons at me as if this will make me realise I'm wrong. When I entertain the possibility of demons I still don't believe they get the job of torturing humans postmortem. Why? Because they'd enjoy it too much.

No I haven't excised any demons, while is the technical term but I know of many doctors that have. Or at least they have done with medicine things that Jesus appeared to do by exorcism. The fact the the symptoms described my many demon possessions in the Bible look suspiciously like a lot of modern diseases we can now treat with drugs is more than a bit curious.

Again, don't believe in Satan. There are moral problems to me with God making the world, declaring it good and then filling it with enemies we are utterly incapable of fighting. All because one man disobeyed God. If God made the world good there should be no way for either Satan or demons to get in as they are of a direct order and should be cut off by their nature and origin. Otherwise there is a major flaw in the goodness of Earth.

The fact that the demons in Hell will at some point stop torturing human does not in any way overcome the moral and logical problems of the period where they do get to do it.

But 'Hades' isn't Hell. You've got to understand this. Gehenna is the closest term in the Bible we have to what we generally understand as Hell. In Greek Hades isn't Hell, Tartarus is Hell. Hades is this strange dark and miserable place we understand very little about. And the word may still be used as merely the closest one the Greeks have.

The only term is the New Testament that definitely describes or at least approximates the modern idea of Hell is 'lake of fire' which only appears in the book of Revelation at the end. The phrase 'eternal fire' (as usually translated) in Matthew is also usually taken to represent this idea and thus so is 'unquenchable fire' whenever it appears. But Gehenna and Hades must be separate things or there'd be no need to use both words even though they appear, occasionally, to become confused.

Erm, if you believe in annihilation you reject UR. If you believe in ED (Eternal Destruction) you believe that at the end of the period of punishment in Hell everyone there is finally destroyed. That's the proper ED belief.

If you're going to say there's more to the spirit word then stated in the Bible, you are going beyond the only authorised text we have and you can claim anything and just say it goes beyond the Bible. Then you don't need to provide reliable support for anything you claim. And can claim that God is actually awful and demons are lovely creatures He's picking on. Which is clearly nonsense.

As I said i don't believe in Satan, Jesus is using a text from Isaiah which usually refers to the King of Babylon to make a point about the defeat of evil. We know now that 'Heaven' isn't actually, literally 'up there', we've sent spaceships 'up there' and not found Heaven so it is not literally possible for Satan to fall from Heaven to Earth like that Jesus is speaking in parables as usual you need to discern what He is actually saying.

[DavidFord]

You can't just boldly claim that Jesus believed demons existed when you have the same evidence I do. And even if did I still suspect it was either due to the fact that the education of His society taught Him to believe in demons or because He had direct divine knowledge of demons which far supersedes our own. How are we supposed to believe in demons when the Bible doesn't even tell us what demons are?

I'm sure while he was growing up that Jesus was told demons exist, and I'm sure Jesus has "direct divine knowledge of demons which far supersedes our own."  In the account below, with who or what did Jesus:  ask its name?  give permission to enter pigs?
Mk 5:8-9  For he [Jesus] was saying to him, "Unclean rukha [spirit], come out from the man!"  And he [Jesus] asked him, "What is your name?"  He said to him, "Our name is Legion, because we are many."
Lk 8:30-33  And Yeshua asked him, "What is your name?"  He said to him, "Legion," because many deewa [demons] had entered into him.  And they were beseeching him that he would not command them to go to the abyss.  And there was there a herd of numerous swine that was feeding on the tuora [mountain], and they were beseeching him to permit them to enter into the swine.  And he permitted them.  And the shada [demons] went out from the man and entered in the swine.  And that whole herd rushed to a cliff and fell into the lake and they drowned.

I claim the following:
1. Jesus believed he freed a woman that had been in physical bondage because of the Accuser.  Reference:
Lk 13:16 (based on Younan, dukhrana.com)
And this (woman) because she is a daughter of Awraham, and Akelqartza [the Accuser] has bound her behold eighteen years, was it not right to free her from this bondage on the day of the Shabbata?"
2.  Jesus believed he spoke to a spirit of muteness, and commanded that it leave a boy alone.  Ref:
Mk 9:25 And when the people that saw Yeshua ran and gathered around him, he rebuked that unclean rukha and said to him, "Dumb rukha that does not speak, I command that you come out from him, and never enter him again!" 
3.  Jesus believed he delivered a woman's daughter from the oppression of a demon.  Ref:
Mk 7:29. Yeshua said to her, "Because of this word (you said), go.  The shada has gone out from your daughter."
4.  Jesus believed that if he cast out demons by the finger of God, that demonstrated the coming of the Kingdom of God.  Ref:
Lk 11:20  But if I cast out deewa by the finger of Allaha, the Kingdom of Allaha is drawing near to you.
5.  Jesus believed it was necessary for him to tell his 12 disciples to expel demons.  Ref:
Mt 10:1, 8
And he called (on) his twelve talmida [students/disciples] and gave them shultana [authority] over unclean rukha, that they may cast them out, and to heal every affliction and disease.  ....  Heal the sick and cleanse the lepers and cast out deewa.  Freely you have received, freely give.

With who or what did Jesus have this conversation?:
Mt 4 (based on Paul Younan)
1. Then Yeshua was taken by the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness] to the desert to be tempted by Akelqartza [the Accuser/ Slanderer/ Backbiter]. 2. And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and after which he hungered. 3. And he that was tempting approached and said to him, "If you (are) the Son of Allaha, say to these rocks, 'Become bread.'" 4. And he answered and said,
"(It) is written that,
'barnasha [man] does not live by bread alone,
but by all the words that proceed from the mouth of Allaha.'"
5. Then Akelqartza took him to the holy medintha [city] and raised him upon the edge of the temple 6. and said to him, "If you (are) the Son of Allaha, cast yourself down, for it is written that,
'His angels He commands concerning you,
and upon their hands they will bear you up,
that your foot should not strike upon a rock'."
7. Yeshua said to him,
"Again, it is written that,
'you shall not test MrYa [Master YHWH] Allahak [your Allaha].'"
8. Again Akelqartza took him to a tuora [mountain] that (was) very high and showed him all the kingdoms of the ailma [world] and shubkhen [their glory], 9. and said to him, "All these I (will) give to you if you will fall (and) thesagud [worship] me." 10. Then Yeshua said to him,
"Leave Satana [Adversary], for it is written that,
'thesagud [you shall worship] MrYa Allahak,
and Him alone thepalukh [you shall serve].'"
11. Then Akelqartza left him and behold, malaka [angels] approached and were ministering to him.

"Again, don't believe in Satan. There are moral problems to me with God making the world, declaring it good and then filling it with enemies we are utterly incapable of fighting. All because one man disobeyed God. If God made the world good there should be no way for either Satan or demons to get in as they are of a direct order and should be cut off by their nature and origin. Otherwise there is a major flaw in the goodness of Earth."
Do you believe:  "God made the world good"?  Adam and Eve disobeyed God?

"enemies we are utterly incapable of fighting"
Eph 6 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6&version=KJV
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  .... 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:  18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit....
Philippians 4:13 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=phil+4&version=NKJV
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
James 4:7 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4&version=NKJV
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Lk 22:31-32, 46 (based on Younan)
And Yeshua said to Shimon, "Shimon, behold, Satana wants to sift all of you like wheat.  And I have prayed over you that your faith may not weaken.  Also in time you will turn and strengthen your brothers."  ....  And he said to them, "Why, you are sleeping!  Arise (and) pray lest you enter into temptation."
1 Samuel 17 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+samuel+17&version=KJV
45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.  46 This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand.... 47 And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear:  for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands.

"Again, don't believe in Satan"
Are these correct statements?:
Satan never rebelled against God, because Satan never existed.
Satan never tempted Eve, because Satan never existed.
Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed.
God never conversed with Satan about Job, because Satan never existed.

With who or what did God have the conversations below regarding Job?
Job 1 (NKJV)
9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!"
12 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person."  So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2
4 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!"
6 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life."
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

"As I said i don't believe in Satan, Jesus is using a text from Isaiah which usually refers to the King of Babylon to make a point about the defeat of evil. We know now that 'Heaven' isn't actually, literally 'up there', we've sent spaceships 'up there' and not found Heaven so it is not literally possible for Satan to fall from Heaven to Earth like that Jesus is speaking in parables as usual you need to discern what He is actually saying."

"Jesus is speaking in parables" 
What's the meaning of Jesus' remark here?:
Lk 10:17-18  And those seventy whom he [Jesus] had sent returned with great joy and said to him, "Maran [our Lord], even shada [demons] were subject to us by your name!"  And he said to them, "I did see him, Satana, falling like lightning from heaven.

Is this a parable, and if so, what's the meaning of this?:
Rev 12:7-9 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12&version=KJV
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:  he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

"No I haven't excised any demons, while is the technical term but I know of many doctors that have. Or at least they have done with medicine things that Jesus appeared to do by exorcism. The fact the the symptoms described my many demon possessions in the Bible look suspiciously like a lot of modern diseases we can now treat with drugs is more than a bit curious."
As far as you know, did Jesus dispense drugs to anyone?
Are you aware of any instances where doctors conversed a negotiation of the terms of a patient getting free from self-harming and severe anti-social behavior?

"If you're going to say there's more to the spirit word then stated in the Bible, you are going beyond the only authorised text we have and you can claim anything and just say it goes beyond the Bible. Then you don't need to provide reliable support for anything you claim."
I'll furthermore say that there's more to the physical world than what's stated in the Bible.

But 'Hades' isn't Hell. You've got to understand this. Gehenna is the closest term in the Bible we have to what we generally understand as Hell. In Greek Hades isn't Hell, Tartarus is Hell. Hades is this strange dark and miserable place we understand very little about. And the word may still be used as merely the closest one the Greeks have.
The only term is the New Testament that definitely describes or at least approximates the modern idea of Hell is 'lake of fire' which only appears in the book of Revelation at the end. The phrase 'eternal fire' (as usually translated) in Matthew is also usually taken to represent this idea and thus so is 'unquenchable fire' whenever it appears. But Gehenna and Hades must be separate things or there'd be no need to use both words even though they appear, occasionally, to become confused.

"Tartarus is Hell"
Do you think some angels:  sinned?   are in Tartarus?  are being "kept unto the judgment of torture"?

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Greek:  tartarosas], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/2-4.htm

2 Peter 2:4 (from Aramaic), http://www.dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) For if Aloha upon the angels who sinned was not lenient,
but in chains of darkness shut them in the deeps,
and delivered them to be kept to the judgment of pain;
(Murdock) For, if God spared not the angels that sinned,
but cast them down to the infernal regions in chains of darkness,
and delivered them up to be kept unto the judgment of torture,

"'Hades' isn't Hell"
Do you agree with me that Jesus' story about the rich man and Lazarus has the rich man being tormented in flames in hades?

Luke 16 King James Version (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16&version=KJV
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:  the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell [Greek:  hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.  ....
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

"hades" in interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/16-23.htm

[MusicLover123]

I would also say for the existence of Satan and demons, that they are real, also due to experiences. Both mine(Don't want to get into it) and others, which I personally believe their testimonies. May not be "Scientifically provable" in most cases, but not everything is ultimately up to science anyway.

Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed

The only other way you can really go with that is that Jesus had a carnal mind. That just brings a lot of bad and unbiblical things with that idea IMO.

[jabcat]

Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed

The only other way you can really go with that is that Jesus had a carnal mind. That just brings a lot of bad and unbiblical things with that idea IMO.

I agree.  Just doesn't work scripturally, IMO.  Also, seems clear to me satan/the adversary - an actual being - did/does exist according to scripture.

[DavidFord]

Rev 15:3: God is king of the: ethnon? aionon? ailma?

Rev 15:3 (NASB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2015%3A3&version=NASB;NABRE;NIV
And they sang the song of Moses,
the bond-servant of God,
and the song of the Lamb, saying,
"Great and marvelous are Your works,
O Lord God, the Almighty;
Righteous and true are Your ways,
King of the [a]nations [Greek:  ethnōn]!
Footnote:  Two early mss read ages

interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/15-3.htm

Strong's Concordance 1484. ethnos
https://biblehub.com/greek/1484.htm
ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.)
Original Word: ἔθνος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ethnos
Phonetic Spelling: (eth'-nos)
Short Definition: a race, people, the Gentiles
Definition: a race, people, nation; the nations, heathen world, Gentiles.
HELPS Word-studies
1484 éthnos (from ethō, "forming a custom, culture") – properly, people joined by practicing similar customs or common culture; nation(s), usually referring to unbelieving Gentiles (non-Jews).

3 of the Greek texts at
https://biblehub.com/texts/revelation/15-3.htm
have αἰώνων i.e. aiōnōn

Strong's Concordance 165. aión
https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.
HELPS Word-studies
165 aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, "age-long") – properly, an age (era, "time-span"), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).
Example: Christians today live in the newer age (165 /aiṓn) of the covenant – the time-period called the NT.

Rev 15:3 (from Aramaic), http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And they sang the song of Musha the servant of Aloha, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and wondrous are thy works, Lord God Omnipotent; Just and true are thy ways, King of ages [Aramaic:  d'ailma]!
(Murdock) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: Great and marvellous are thy deeds, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, O King of worlds.

http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=%28lm+N%20&cits=all
ˁlm, ˁlmˀ   (ˁālam, ˁālmā)   n.m.  eternity; world  ....
1  eternity (usually as a nomen rectum)  Com. Dan3:33 : ....‏  His kingdom is an eternal kingdom. TgO Gen48:4 : .... I shall give this land to your son after you as an eternal holding. BT Git 36b(25) : ....  for future generations. (a) as an adv.: ˁd ˁlm, lˁlmˀ, lˁlmyn, lˁlmyˀ: forever  Com. Sf.3 a25 : ʿd ʿlm . TAD B2.3 R.9 : .... ‏ . SamPap.6..11 : .... . Dan2:4 : ....‏  long live the king!. PAT360:1.1 : lbryk šmh lʿlmʾ  [and passim in Palm.] may his/her name be blessed forever. H 408:.7 : wmštmšyn bh lʿlm . 4QTQah 1,1:4 : ....  He will provide joy and happiness for you by your offspring in the generations of Truth forever. (a.1)  repeated as an expression of absolute foreverness  Com. Dan7:18 : .... . (b) ....‏ : the World to Come  JBA, LJLA. TgJ 2Sam7:19 : ....  .... [MT ....!]. BT Er 54b(50) : ....‏  I want myself and my generation to merit the world to come. PJ Gen3:24 : .... ‏  walks on the pathways of life to the World to Come. (c) eternal ages past  Com. Dan2:20 : .... 11 .... QtgJob 3.5=20:4 : ....  [=MT ....].

2  world  BT San 113a(49) : .... ‏  the world was suffering without rain. (a) an epoch  Jud, CPA, Syr, JBA. P Mt24:21 . BhBS.E 047 : ....‏  from the sea of this world ... to the isle of the world to come. (b) a place : this world  Palmyrene, Qumran, Sam, Syr, JBA, LJLA. Hormizd 385 : ....‏  they were wealthy with the riches of the world of transitory things. (c) adverbial usages with various prepositions  (c.1)  .... : wordly, of this life  Syr. Rechts2 54:114[=1Cor 6:4] : .... if you have a case about something worldly. (c.2) ....‏ : in a general way, merely  JBA. BT Tan 22b(50) : ....‏  and from where I! was up above it looked to me merely like an insect. 1  of any kind in the world  LJLA, LJLAmag. PJ Lev26:24 : .... I shall treat you like any kind of accidental relationship. T.-S. K1.19 1:17 : ....  for one who wants to open anything at all that is locked. (c.3)  .... ‏ : from elsewhere, from somewhere or other  JBA. BT Git 67b(40) : .... ‏  they cut off and brought one from somewhere or other. (c.4)  .... ‏ : to elsewhere  JBA. (c.5)  anywhere, everywhere  JBAg.

3  nation, people  Syr. AphDem22.425:10 : .... . StudSin11 60a:13 : .... When the day had set and the whole nation was asleep. (a) pl. : wedding guests  Syr. EphFid 14:4.2 : ....here has your pure wedding feast gladdened your guests.
Note the trajectory of development in the expressions for "forever" from ˁd ˁlm to lˁlm to lˁlmyn, etc.
In the Middle Aramaic (Palm., Qum.) expression .... as a divine epithet, it is unclear whether "eternity" or "this world" is intended.
Mng. 3a is uncertain; the mss. vary between....
Derivatives:  ....
lˁlm, lˁlmyn (lˁālam, lˁālmīn) adv.   forever
mn lˁlm adv.   from of old
lˁlm ˁlmyn adv.   forever and ever
mn ˁlm adv.   since forever
ˁlym adj.   eternal
ˁlm vb.   D to call eternal
ˁwlm, ˁwlmˀ (ˁullām, ˁullāmā) v.n.D   eternal life  ....
ˁlmy (ˁālmāy) adj.   secular, this wordly
ˁlmyw, ˁlmywtˀ (ˁālmāyū, ˁālmāyūṯā) n.f.   this worldly state
ˁlmyny (ˁālmīnāy) adj.   eternal
lˁlmyny (lˁālmīnāy) adj.   eternal
ˁlmynˀyt (ˁālmīnāˀīṯ) adv.   eternally
ˁlmynyw, ˁlmynywtˀ (ˁālmīnāyū, ˁālmīnāyūṯā) n.f.   eternality
ˁlmny (ˁālmānāy) adj.   terrestrial

In looking at the structure and content of the larger passage, I think d'ailma should be understood as 'of the peoples/nations.'  "King of the age/s" doesn't fit nearly as well.  So, aiōnōn is out, leaving ethnōn and ailma as contenders for being the original.  Perhaps a translator of the Aramaic 'ailma' came up with ethnon, while another translator of 'ailma' came up with aionon.

Rev 15:3-4 (Murdock)
And they sing
the song of Moses the servant of God,
and the song of the Lamb, saying:
Great and marvellous are thy deeds,
Lord God Almighty;
just and true are thy ways,
O King of worlds [d'ailma:  of: worlds/ ages/ the world/ the age/ nations/ peoples/ the nation/ the people].
Who shall not fear thee, O Lord,
and glorify thy name?
Because thou only art holy and just:
Because all nations [aimma:  peoples/nations] shall come and worship before thee,
since thy righteousnesses have been revealed.

PDF http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf
291 15:3 .... The evidence is fairly evenly split between the readings "nations" and
"ages."  Even family 052 is divided, though with the majority thereof supporting "ἐθνῶν."

[GodIsLove]

I would also say for the existence of Satan and demons, that they are real, also due to experiences. Both mine(Don't want to get into it) and others, which I personally believe their testimonies. May not be "Scientifically provable" in most cases, but not everything is ultimately up to science anyway.

Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed

The only other way you can really go with that is that Jesus had a carnal mind. That just brings a lot of bad and unbiblical things with that idea IMO.

I will play devils advocate (haha!)

What was the point of God becoming man aka jesus?

God could have just spoke to someone as a burning bush again and passed along what Jesus taught, right? And the cross, that was for our benefit IMO, because God could have again spoken through the burning bush and said that the old law was over, now it's the age of grace etc.

IMO I have read and thought about this and at this time I believe that God became Jesus for many reasons and some are:

Because Jesus could be an example to humans about HOW to live our life

Because then humans could KNOW and SEE God's love

But again couldn't God have accomplished this without becoming human?

So why did God come as a human?

So he could show to us that he was willing to subject himself to all that we endure in this world, including suffering, pain, and temptation.

So while Jesus was fully God and fully man, he could experience all that we experience, so we could never say God doesn't know what it is like to be human or to live on earth amongst this imperfection.

So to me it doesn't seem "bad" to say that Jesus wrestled with carnality and won EVERY time.

I don't know what I believe as far as demons and such but I don't think anyone truly knows here on earth.  The Bible is plainly clear on some things and not so much on other points, and I tend to think that it is because we aren't meant to know.

Is it possible that some of the demons the people were cured of by Jesus were physical  ailments? Why in modern times do we treat epilepsy, muteness, blindness, and scoliosis medically and get results but those were called demons in the Bible? If today my child had those symptoms I would pray of course but I would also bring them to doctors and specialists. Is it possible our understanding of what a demon is has changed since biblical times? In today's world those who believe in demons don't usually attribute demons to medical illness but to things like temptation to sin and possesion and influencing people to do evil. Maybe some of the examples in the Bible are spiritual/demonic ailments such as the legion/pig example and others are physical and either way the important part isn't the nature of the ailment it is the fact that JESUS HEALS everything through FAITH and LOVE.

So it is belief in and trusting in Him that matters, IMO.

All thoughts are my opinion right now.

[MusicLover123]

I would also say for the existence of Satan and demons, that they are real, also due to experiences. Both mine(Don't want to get into it) and others, which I personally believe their testimonies. May not be "Scientifically provable" in most cases, but not everything is ultimately up to science anyway.

Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed

The only other way you can really go with that is that Jesus had a carnal mind. That just brings a lot of bad and unbiblical things with that idea IMO.

I will play devils advocate (haha!)

What was the point of God becoming man aka jesus?

God could have just spoke to someone as a burning bush again and passed along what Jesus taught, right? And the cross, that was for our benefit IMO, because God could have again spoken through the burning bush and said that the old law was over, now it's the age of grace etc.

IMO I have read and thought about this and at this time I believe that God became Jesus for many reasons and some are:

Because Jesus could be an example to humans about HOW to live our life

Because then humans could KNOW and SEE God's love

But again couldn't God have accomplished this without becoming human?

So why did God come as a human?

So he could show to us that he was willing to subject himself to all that we endure in this world, including suffering, pain, and temptation.

So while Jesus was fully God and fully man, he could experience all that we experience, so we could never say God doesn't know what it is like to be human or to live on earth amongst this imperfection.

So to me it doesn't seem "bad" to say that Jesus wrestled with carnality and won EVERY time.

I don't know what I believe as far as demons and such but I don't think anyone truly knows here on earth.  The Bible is plainly clear on some things and not so much on other points, and I tend to think that it is because we aren't meant to know.

Is it possible that some of the demons the people were cured of by Jesus were physical  ailments? Why in modern times do we treat epilepsy, muteness, blindness, and scoliosis medically and get results but those were called demons in the Bible? If today my child had those symptoms I would pray of course but I would also bring them to doctors and specialists. Is it possible our understanding of what a demon is has changed since biblical times? In today's world those who believe in demons don't usually attribute demons to medical illness but to things like temptation to sin and possesion and influencing people to do evil. Maybe some of the examples in the Bible are spiritual/demonic ailments such as the legion/pig example and others are physical and either way the important part isn't the nature of the ailment it is the fact that JESUS HEALS everything through FAITH and LOVE.

So it is belief in and trusting in Him that matters, IMO.

All thoughts are my opinion right now.

To add to that, will be a couple things.

I guess one of the biggest reasons is to show how much God really loves us. To show, since the Father cannot die, has His Son lay down His life, that "I love you so much that I would die for you."

Joh 15:12  This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 
Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 

Eph 3:14  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 
Eph 3:15  of whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named, 
Eph 3:16  that He may give to you, according to the riches of His glory, with might to be strengthened through His Spirit, in regard to the inner man, 
Eph 3:17  that the Christ may dwell through the faith in your hearts, in love having been rooted and founded, 
Eph 3:18  that ye may be in strength to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, 
Eph 3:19  to know also the love of the Christ that is exceeding the knowledge, that ye may be filled—to all the fulness of God; 
Eph 3:20  and to Him who is able above all things to do exceeding abundantly what we ask or think, according to the power that is working in us, 
Eph 3:21  to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen.

Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

Surprise! This is Tabernacle language too. That was an awesome revelation, along with finding this passage, but that is another discussion to do.

Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh—in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me

I heard another reason is so that people could not say that God is a hypocrite, that He tells us to do all these things yet hasn't even done it Himself.

[GodIsLove]

Yes! Good post ML! I love it when two or more people post and we all just add to each other's posts.

It reminds me of "Wherever two or more are gathered in my name..."

[CST]

You can't just boldly claim that Jesus believed demons existed when you have the same evidence I do. And even if did I still suspect it was either due to the fact that the education of His society taught Him to believe in demons or because He had direct divine knowledge of demons which far supersedes our own. How are we supposed to believe in demons when the Bible doesn't even tell us what demons are?

I'm sure while he was growing up that Jesus was told demons exist, and I'm sure Jesus has "direct divine knowledge of demons which far supersedes our own."  In the account below, with who or what did Jesus:  ask its name?  give permission to enter pigs?

Since I don't know what 'came out' of the man I can't say what Jesus excised. What did people present 'see' when the demon came out? I don't know I this causes me to check myself in what I understand a demon to be and if there really are such things of if it's just  a name give to a certain order of conditions that make life particularly challenging.

As for the rest your ridiculous number of quotes are making it hard for me to follow what you are saying.

[CST]

Ok, let's try and edit these down and respond.

I claim the following:
1. Jesus believed he freed a woman that had been in physical bondage because of the Accuser.  Reference:
2.  Jesus believed he spoke to a spirit of muteness, and commanded that it leave a boy alone.  Ref:
3.  Jesus believed he delivered a woman's daughter from the oppression of a demon.  Ref:
4.  Jesus believed that if he cast out demons by the finger of God, that demonstrated the coming of the Kingdom of God.  Ref:
5.  Jesus believed it was necessary for him to tell his 12 disciples to expel demons.

"Again, don't believe in Satan. There are moral problems to me with God making the world, declaring it good and then filling it with enemies we are utterly incapable of fighting. All because one man disobeyed God. If God made the world good there should be no way for either Satan or demons to get in as they are of a direct order and should be cut off by their nature and origin. Otherwise there is a major flaw in the goodness of Earth."
Do you believe:  "God made the world good"?  Adam and Eve disobeyed God?

"enemies we are utterly incapable of fighting"
Eph 6 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6&version=KJV
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  .... 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:  18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit....
Philippians 4:13 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=phil+4&version=NKJV
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
James 4:7 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4&version=NKJV
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Lk 22:31-32, 46 (based on Younan)
And Yeshua said to Shimon, "Shimon, behold, Satana wants to sift all of you like wheat.  And I have prayed over you that your faith may not weaken.  Also in time you will turn and strengthen your brothers."  ....  And he said to them, "Why, you are sleeping!  Arise (and) pray lest you enter into temptation."
1 Samuel 17 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+samuel+17&version=KJV
45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.  46 This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand.... 47 And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear:  for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands.

"Again, don't believe in Satan"
Are these correct statements?:
Satan never rebelled against God, because Satan never existed.
Satan never tempted Eve, because Satan never existed.
Satan never tested Jesus in the wilderness, because Satan never existed.
God never conversed with Satan about Job, because Satan never existed.

First, did Jesus believe He had done things things in the sense we would understand Him having done these things? Because that's a very important question

Most of us don't have access to exorcists, they're pretty thin on the ground these days and people with demons tend to be in no position to seek them themselves. This is my first problem with demons. Real demons can actively seek people out and injure then I have a huge moral problem with this.

Yes, God made the world good but that's a big part of my problem. I don't literally believe in Adam and Eve either but if they existed I doubt that God put it into their hands to so ruin the world the way them seem to have under this reason. God called the world good and it remains so even though we do much bad and evil.

People with demons tend to incline against doing the things described in though verses which makes them hard to for them to fight.

In answer to your question about those four things, yes. Satan doesn't literally exist so didn't literally do those things. when Satan appears in the Bible however he represents something, not always the same thing, and what he represents does exist.

Time has beaten me again so i'll continue this later.

[DavidFord]

Most of us don't have access to exorcists, they're pretty thin on the ground these days and people with demons tend to be in no position to seek them themselves. This is my first problem with demons. Real demons can actively seek people out and injure then I have a huge moral problem with this.

Do you think people should be mindful of the existence of an adversary looking for people to devour?
1Peter 5:8
(Etheridge) Watch, and be mindful, because your adversary Satana,
as a lion, roareth and walketh and seeketh whom he may devour.
(Murdock) Be sober and guarded, because Satan your adversary,
like a lion, roareth, and goeth about, and seeketh whom he may devour.
Jn 10:10  (based on Younan)
A thief does not come but that (he) may steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may have life,
and they may have something which is abundant.
Jn 8:44 
You are from the abba [father] Akelqartza.
And the lusts of your father you want to do,
he who from the beginning killed men.
And he does not stand in truth
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a falsehood,
he speaks from himself
because he (is) a liar, even its father.

I don't literally believe in Adam and Eve either but if they existed I doubt that God put it into their hands to so ruin the world the way them seem to have under this reason. God called the world good and it remains so even though we do much bad and evil.

Do you think Jesus existed?

Do you think Jesus _wasn't_ a descendant of Adam?
Luke 3:38 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=adam&begin=47&end=73
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Do you think Adam _didn't_ sin?
Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of him that was to come.

Do you think it's _not_ the case that "in Adam all die"?
1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Cor 15:45
And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

....Satan doesn't literally exist so didn't literally do those things. when Satan appears in the Bible however he represents something, not always the same thing, and what he represents does exist.

With what did Michael contend about Moses' body?
Jude 1:9
(Etheridge) Yet Mikael, chief of angels, when, with the accuser [Aramaic:  Akelqartza] speaking, he contended on account of the body of Musha, dared not bring against him a reviling judgment, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
(Murdock) But Michael the archangel, who, in debate with the Accuser, contended about the body of Moses, did not venture to bring against him a reviling declaration; but said, The Lord will rebuke thee.

What was Judas influenced by here?:
Jn 13:2 
And when supper was done, it was placed by him-- by Satana-- into the heart of Yehuda, the son of Shimon Skaryota, that he would betray him [Yeshua].
Jn 13:26. ....And Yeshua dipped the bread and gave (it) to Yehuda, the son of Shimon Skaryota. 27. And after the bread, Satana then entered in him. And Yeshua said to him, "The thing that you do, do quickly."
Lk 22:3  And Satana had entered into Yehuda who was called Skaryota, who was from the number of the twelve.

What was Ananias influenced by here?:
Act 5:3 
And Shimon said to him, "Khanan-Yah [i.e. Ananias], why is it that Satana has filled your heart thus that you should lie in (the presence of) the Rukha d'Qudsha, and that you should hide some of the money of the proceeds of the field?

Jesus appeared that he might destroy the works of what, in your view?
1John 3:8 (Murdock)
And he that committeth sin, is of Satan;
because Satan was a sinner from the beginning:
and for this cause, the Son of God appeared,
that he might destroy the works of Satan.

Do you think it's possible to give the Accuser a foothold by holding onto anger?
Eph 4:26-28 (Etheridge)
Be angry and sin not, and let not the sun set upon your wrath,
and give no place to the accuser [Aramaic:  Akelqartza]. 
And let him who hath stolen henceforth steal not,
but labour with his hands and do good,
that he may have to give to him who needeth.

[DavidFord]

Aramaic verses that contain akel (or some variation thereof, e.g. akli or aklin) + qartza = Slanderer/ Accuser/ slanderer/ slander/ eater of the broken/ eater of ridicule
Mt 4:1, 4:5, 4:8, 4:11, 25:41
Lk 4:2, 4:3, 4:6, 4:13, 13:16
John 8:44, 18:29
Acts 13:10
Romans 1:30
2Cor 12:20
Eph 4:27, 6:11
1Tim 3:11
2Tim 3:3
Titus 2:3
1Peter 2:1
Jude 1:9
Rev 2:10, 12:9, 12:12, 20:2, 20:10

Aramaic verses that contains lexeme 1:2112 Satana
Mt 4:10, 12:26, 13:39, 16:23
Mk 1:13, 3:23, 3:26, 4:15, 8:33
Lk 4:5, 10:18, 11:18, 22:3, 22:31
Jn 6:70, 13:2, 13:27
Acts 5:3, 26:18
Romans 16:20
1Cor 5:5, 7:5
2Cor 2:11, 6:15, 11:14, 12:7
1Thess 2:18
2Thess 2:9
1Tim 1:20, 3:6, 3:7, 5:15
2Tim 2:26
Hebr 2:14
James 4:7
1Peter 5:8
1John 3:8, 3:10
Rev 2:9, 2:13, 2:24, 3:9, 12:9, 20:2, 20:7

Aramaic verses that contains lexeme 1:437 baal-d'baba i.e. lord/master of enmity:  enemy/enemies
Mt 5:43, 5:44, 10:36, 13:25, 13:28, 13:39, 22:44
Mk 12:36
Lk 1:71, 1:74, 6:27, 6:35, 8:12, 10:19, 19:27, 19:43, 20:43, 21:15
Acts 2:35, 13:10
Rom 5:10, 11:28, 12:20
1Cor 15:25, 15:26
Gala 4:16
Philippians 3:18
Col 1:21
2Thess 3:15
1Tim 5:14
Hebr 1:13, 10:13, 10:27, 11:34
James 4:4
1Peter 5:8
Rev 11:5, 11:12

For 2 Cor 6:15, Greek mss. have Βελίαλ (Belial) and Βελίαρ (Beliar)
https://biblehub.com/texts/2_corinthians/6-15.htm
which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word Belial.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Belial.
https://biblehub.com/greek/955.htm
Of Hebrew origin (bliya'al); worthlessness; Belial, as an epithet of Satan -- Belial.
see HEBREW bliya'al

Strong's Concordance 1100. beliyyaal
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1100.htm
beliyyaal: worthlessness
Original Word: בְּלִיַּ֫עַל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: beliyyaal
Phonetic Spelling: (bel-e-yah'-al)
Short Definition: worthless