those in Sheol getting what they dished out to others?

[DavidFord]

What do you think of the view that those in Sheol are getting tormented by demons doing to them the deeds those people did to others?

Isaiah 50:11 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+50&version=NIV
But now, all you who light fires
    and provide yourselves with flaming torches,
go, walk in the light of your fires
    and of the torches you have set ablaze.
This is what you shall receive from my hand:
    You will lie down in torment.

Isaiah 3:11
Woe to the wicked!
Disaster is upon them!
They will be paid back
for what their hands have done.

Isaiah 48:22 "There is no peace," says the Lord, "for the wicked."

Mark 4 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/mark/4.htm
22 "For there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed,
and nothing secret that will not be discovered." ....
24 ....that measure in which you are measuring
is measured to you,
and it is increased to you who hear."

Matthew 7 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/matthew/7.htm
2 For with the judgment that you judge,
you will be judged,
and with the measure that you measure,
it will be measured to you.

B.W. Melvin, _A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion_ (2005), 212pp.
https://www.amazon.com/Land-Hells-Dominion-B-Melvin-ebook/dp/B07B6C2JG3/

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion A true Near Death Experience FULL LENGHT - Crown and Diadem
https://youtu.be/h2X5uAB692A

04-25-17 Melvin He Saw Hell and Heaven - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/j5L2jsIb5Qk
04-26-17 Melvin He Saw Hell and Heaven Pt2 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/t1VZyGxoik8
04-27-17 Melvin From Hell to Heaven Pt3 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/qCRCyB4iEbA

Hell in a Box and From Hell to Heaven DVD Melvin 02-16-18 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/LoMf6ZqsKmA
Hell in a Box and From Hell to Heaven DVD 2 Melvin 02-19-18 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/Oa-_e0UZvTs
Hell in a Box and From Hell to Heaven DVD 3 Melvin 02-20-18 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/x8e6j06MKco
Hell in a Box and From Hell to Heaven DVD 4 Melvin 02-21-18 - Prophecy Club
https://youtu.be/vaE78OoPtNY

[CST]

John Milton (imagining the mind of the Devil) - "It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven"

The Bible (according to Revelation 20:10) '...and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'

(and Matthew 8:29) 'And behold, they cried out, "What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?"'

The Devil is not in Hell to rule it or to continue to torment those He deceived and tormented on Earth. Neither so are the demons. Hell is exclusively a place of torment and none but torment has any authority over others there. It is possible that this is represented, for a time, by the presence in the Lake of Fire of Death and Hades but no the suggestion that demons torment people in Hell is not Biblical.

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: I haven't time to read the thread now :( But the title made me wonder, does this include believers.. wait, Jesus did say to believers (the crowds in His teachings) "shall have your part in the lake which burns with fire". I guess what the question is, is what is that lake of fire?

I read a line in some prose many years ago, which said - (about God our Father) "with you .. He will play hide and seek.."

I finally agree with that! It's (imo) the whoLe ET thing!! Making mankind and each one of us seek after and find the real Him..

[DavidFord]

The Devil is not in Hell to rule it or to continue to torment those He deceived and tormented on Earth. Neither so are the demons.

"not in Hell.... Neither so are the demons"
Reference?  What do you think of Ferrell's claim that she's seen people being oppressed by demons operating in Sheol?

Ana Mendez Ferrell, _Regions of Captivity_ (2015), 171pp. On 96:
Through a vision, the Lord took us to one of the regions of Sheol. There we saw demons allied with witches who had built a cemetery for pastors in the spiritual world.
On 24:
This was a terminal case, so I got into the Spirit to try to see the spiritual world around him.... It was an exact replica of the visible realm.  The place was full of demons speaking over the sick man.... "Oh satan, satan, your will be done on earth, as it is in hell."

"Hell is exclusively a place of torment and none but torment has any authority over others there"
Do you think people on earth can give the devil authority to act on earth in a destructive fashion?

"the suggestion that demons torment people in Hell is not Biblical"
Is the fact that 2+2 = 4 "not Biblical"?

[DavidFord]

Jesus did say to believers (the crowds in His teachings) "shall have your part in the lake which burns with fire".

Reference that Jesus said that?

search for "lake" on NKJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=lake&qs_version=NKJV&limit=500

[marie glen]

It's interesting "Kimberly" is not only lake or pond, but relates to nearness of shore - I find that puzzling.. not sure why..

Matthew 5:22 is close.. but I'm not sure if it's the verse I was thinking of or if I've superimposed two verses together..
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (In "geena"/gehenna
— of course He can destroy life and limb in Gehenna.

And the verses in His sermon on the mount, of course, also Gehenna - which 'lake' I believe is the Armageddon valley (but also the fiery razing of Israel in 70 a.d., imo..

The parable abt the talents..
:Peace2:

So I was likely wrong.. not a quote abt the lake specifically..

[DavidFord]

Matthew 5:22 is close

Matthew 5 from Aramaic (based on Younan of peshi tta.org, http://dukhrana.com)
21. You have heard that it was said to those before,
'you should not kill,'
and all that kill are condemned to dina [judgment].
22. But I say to you that,
anyone who provokes to anger his brother without cause
is condemned to dina,
and anyone who should say to his brother, 'Raca!' [(I) spit (on you); or: (you are) spit. Aramaic to Arabic to English produced: 'foul one']
is condemned to the assembly,
and anyone who should say, "Lela!"[(you are) a nursemaid/ coward]
is condemned to the fire of Gehenna.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup:

[lastpost]

B.W. Melvin, _A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion_ (2005), 212pp.
https://www.amazon.com/Land-Hells-Dominion-B-Melvin-ebook/dp/B07B6C2JG3/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R1BQ9GCPOA9ZOF?ref=pf_ov_at_pdctrvw_srp

I reviewed Mr Melvin's book about a decade ago due to my (life-long) seeking into non-human existence. If anyone could be bothered to read that review then here it is...

Customer Review

An interesting start but the God Who is Divine Love is misrepresented

By TB on October 27, 2008

Format: Paperback

Any portrayal of the horrors to be found in the hells should not be dismissed, but this book is far removed from a normal NDE experience. What the author "perceived" during the critically feverish cholera stage (after Fundamentalist education by Trish) appears more like a nightmare. Finite wicked works should receive inescapable like-for-like finite consequences, but this is distorted by the author to suit his religious preference of infinite consequences for finite sins.

The "cubes" appear to symbolise the self-imposed imprisonment of the spirit where the wicked receive their just reward with a precision that should display perfect and inviolable universal laws - the sowing and reaping (Gal.6:7); but, in contrast to this book, not everlastingly. As Christ said: "...with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you... (no more, no less) Luke 6:37". Hell is spiritually restorative i.e. it is used to purify the character of evil.

The author says he uses a "creative non-fiction" style. It appears that the "creative" part of "creative non-fiction" is given a very liberal scope in the author's noble attempt to proclaim his own concept of limited salvation. If the author was witnessing aspects of a hellish region, then it appears that his preconditioning to fundamentalist doctrine has shaped the remembrance of his experiences accordingly.

Receiving the "discourses", states Mr Melvin, was like "reading several long novels in a split second" and they "were added to aid literary flow". This certainly creates an enormous vacuum to be filled with words coming directly from a "creative" human mind. The author states that the "thoughts began to speak to me" and that the "words of thought rained down" on him - yet all in a "split second". Indeed, he states that the discourses "happened in a far different manner than I have recorded". All this leads me to believe the author has written what he feels he should write in response to genuinely reported NDEs which nullify Fundamentalism.

The needlessly repetitive "words of thought" are "mysteries" we are told. However, they are fundamentalist doctrine expounded in a modern creative style. To cut to the chase, the author states in the last pages of the book that all spiritual pathways - except the one he is expounding - are deceptions, and lead not to God but, by suggestion, to eternal torture.

Mr Melvin appears to explain that the reason why inhabitants are in Hell is because they had performed wicked and evil deeds. But this truth is negated by the "words of thought" which repeatedly refer to not choosing the "exchange" as the reason for their predicament - "exchange" undoubtedly referring to a one-time acceptance of the fundamentalist metaphysical concept of salvation. But the law of consequences cannot be circumvented by an affirmation of faith.

This book does possess a redemptive essence concerning the wicked motives, thoughts and actions of the lesser self, and the inescapable experiencing of consequences that abusing Divine Law brings. But in contrast, God's children should abide by His laws (not sin) out of love for Him - and not out of fear for themselves (selfishness).

This book turns this principle on its head and I feel that its portrayal of God is mindlessly mechanical as if all Creation was governed by some giant computer that plays out a heartless, malicious game that has no end. In this version of Hell, God cannot prevent children created in His own Image from being tortured eternally.

The book claims that the fate of Hell's inhabitants has been "sealed in eternity" and that character change is impossible because "...intellect and reason would continually pervert the change renewing detestation towards God". This strays wildly from Biblical demonstration.

Character change enables a soul to "live according to God in the Spirit" once physical death has occurred. If this was not feasible then Christ, immediately after His own physical death on the Cross, would not have bothered to preach to "onetime wicked" spirits of people who died centuries before (1 Peter 3:18-20 & 4:6) - a Biblical fact of which the literalistic Fundamentalist lives in denial.

It is reasonable that God has created redemptive laws, and when God's universal laws of love are violated, consequences are attached "until" ("ewv": passing of time - Matt. 18:34) they are paid in full. This process ultimately enables a deep character change through remorse and expiation.

The descriptions of Hell in texts such as "Paul and Albert" (Rev. Vale Owen) and various accounts found in "The Life Beyond The Veil" series, and a number of other similar texts, give a more comprehensive real-time understanding of the hells of misery, despair - but most importantly - the spiritual restoration processes involved. After decades of prayer I have concluded that the manner such texts are recorded is less prone to human interference and misinterpretation by far.

A bizarre question is asked by the "words of thought" in this book, as to how the justice of God could remain justice if there was no eternal torture in an everlasting Hell. This is a self-defeating question because finite sins receive finite punishment and an infinite punishment for finite sins is manifestly unjust. Hell is redemptive. That is Divine Justice. If limited humans can perceive this wonderful plan of God to redeem all fallen souls, surely we can credit the Creator of all Life with the ability to save His own creations?

In this book there has been a lowering of the status of God's Wisdom, masking the fullness of the Love of God which is so complete that none of His creations shall be lost to an "everlasting punishment" - a mistranslation barely used in the Bible that one wonders how half a doctrine of salvation is derived from it.

The ultimate test for me is: If something does not come up to the highest standard of love then it is certain that the mind of man, in contrast to the Mind of God, has played a greater or lesser part in what is being presented. I fail to understand how a loving Christian can experience real joy and contentment knowing that his or her brother or sister is subjected to eternal torture. The mind truly boggles.

[CST]

The Devil is not in Hell to rule it or to continue to torment those He deceived and tormented on Earth. Neither so are the demons.

"not in Hell.... Neither so are the demons"
Reference?  What do you think of Ferrell's claim that she's seen people being oppressed by demons operating in Sheol?

Ana Mendez Ferrell, _Regions of Captivity_ (2015), 171pp. On 96:
Through a vision, the Lord took us to one of the regions of Sheol. There we saw demons allied with witches who had built a cemetery for pastors in the spiritual world.
On 24:
This was a terminal case, so I got into the Spirit to try to see the spiritual world around him.... It was an exact replica of the visible realm.  The place was full of demons speaking over the sick man.... "Oh satan, satan, your will be done on earth, as it is in hell."

"Hell is exclusively a place of torment and none but torment has any authority over others there"
Do you think people on earth can give the devil authority to act on earth in a destructive fashion?

"the suggestion that demons torment people in Hell is not Biblical"
Is the fact that 2+2 = 4 "not Biblical"?

Sorry, I thought wrong you'd be able to draw the inference. The Devil is not in Hell to rule it, he's there to be punished as is everyone else. The demons are there to be punished. No one directly does the punishing, certainly not in the vindictive way you describe.

Technically the fact that 2+ 2 = 4 is not Biblical as the Bible doesn't particularly 'do maths' A lot of its science is now known to be wrong if read absolutely and literally. It's application of Pi is wrong if read absolutely and literally, according to the Bible Pi = 3.

I see what your trying to say though but but making a false equivalency since what you read as '2' may in fact not be '2'. And that would throw your maths off.

[marie glen]

Eek! Visions of hell! Well this sums up for me both such 'visions' and also NDE's! People have very lively imaginations!
  :laughing7: :gsmile:  :Peace2:

[DavidFord]

Sorry, I thought wrong you'd be able to draw the inference. The Devil is not in Hell to rule it, he's there to be punished as is everyone else. The demons are there to be punished.

Is the devil in hell now?  Are demons in hell now?  Are some humans in hell now?

No one directly does the punishing, certainly not in the vindictive way you describe.

What sort of punishing occurs in hell:  presently?  at some point in the future?

[marie glen]

Is it the idea that ppl go to heaven and/or 'hell' before Judgment?

[DavidFord]

Is it the idea that ppl go to heaven and/or 'hell' before Judgment?

Melvin says he died, and went to a frightening place where he saw demons doing to people what those people had done to others while living on earth.  I don't recall him saying he faced any formal Judgment before being deposited in a cube, which he exited and subsequently was taken on a tour of the place.
I vaguely recall coming across a few accounts of people going to heaven upon dying (later to return to physical life), but don't recall any saying they faced a formal Judgment before entering heaven.  Howard Pittman in _Placebo_ says he didn't enter heaven, God spoke to him ("He pointed out that my faith was dead, that my works were not acceptable, and that I had laboured in vain.... telling me that what I did, I did for myself.... I was doing that [witnessing] only for myself in order that my conscience might be soothed.  In essence, my first love and first works were for myself"-33), and he ended up not entering heaven but instead returned to physical life.

[CST]

NDEs have been recently disproved, apparently.

No this is true. Scientists, those clever people, developed a type of hallucinogen that has effects strongly comparable to experiences of people claiming NDEs. Sorry.

Never mind that hallucinogens tend to be stimulant drugs and people who experience NDEs are in a pretty unstimulated state where the vast majority of there brain is all but deactivated. Never mind that.

I don't tend to believe anything can be objectively learned from NDEs. I know our biological brain is designed to record biological experiences. Therefore if you approach death and don't have an NDE it can suggest nothing more than your brain didn't record it in a way your memory can access.

Similarly, however, I there's no way to no an objective experience actually occurred if people do. The experience could been anything you can't draw conclusions from them.

And so, yes, while no-one seems to record any form of judgement before going to either state obviously no one who returns to tell the tale stays there indefinitely so the purpose for their being there will be different and a judgement not necessary.

The judgement has a specific purpose and it's unlikely it's for the benefit of God to boast about how righteous He is or otherwise show off.

NDEs prove nothing and can be used for arguments for very little.

[DavidFord]

Scientists, those clever people, developed a type of hallucinogen that has effects strongly comparable to experiences of people claiming NDEs.

Melvin claims that he saw demons defecate on a child molester, and then years later after he got into social work learned that molesters often do that to their victims.  Melvin claims that he saw a Nazi getting mistreated by demons the ways the Nazi had mistreated various Easter Europeans, and then years later Melvin came across a photo eerily reminiscent of one of those scenes he'd earlier observed.  There's a famous NDE where a guy went out of his body and observed a shoe on the rooftop; investigation revealed that yes, there was a shoe on the rooftop, not-visible from the ground.  Can this hallucinogen supply knowledge that the recipient lacked awareness of their knowing prior to receiving the hallucinogen?

[CST]

No, but a general understanding of God should make such impressions of Hell highly dubious especially to those of us who profess UR which I was of the impression you did.

Melvin may well have heard these things previously and then forgotten I know I've heard them before even though I've never had any NDEs so far as I know. Even though I've had what I would term experiences of both Heaven and Hell.

[DavidFord]

No, but a general understanding of God should make such impressions of Hell highly dubious especially to those of us who profess UR which I was of the impression you did.
Melvin may well have heard these things previously and then forgotten I know I've heard them before even though I've never had any NDEs so far as I know. Even though I've had what I would term experiences of both Heaven and Hell.

"a general understanding of God should make such impressions of Hell highly dubious"
How so?  'Moab is my washpot'  God has often allowed the enemies of Israel to wreak havoc and grievous harm for a period of time on a wayward Israel.  Also, it's a biblical principle that, as Charles Stanley often observes, one reaps what one sows, later than one sows, more than what one sows.  Also, God allows demons to wreak havoc and grievous harm on humans this side of the grave.
"Melvin may well have heard these things previously and then forgotten" 
Possibly.  How can hallucinogens account for knowing that the shoe, unobservable from the ground, was on the roof?
"I've had what I would term experiences of both Heaven and Hell" 
What was your experience of hell like?

[CST]

Hmm, you're misunderstanding. You're belief in this only works because you seem to possess a certain lack of moral understanding.

A lot of child sex abusers are previously victims of child sex abuse so the idea of then inflicting what they did on them and called it justice becomes difficult. and it's not very constructive to go back down the chain and find the people who weren't any sort of victim of child sex abuse and inflicting child sex abuse on them because a. their actions may well not be on the same level as those that followed them, b. their society may not have been sufficiently opposed to the concept and c. they're no longer children so the situation's not the same.

That last one is a particularly important moral point because a. there's no reason to think doing to them whatever they did to their victims will produce any sort of remorse or repentance for actions we can already be sure they knew were evil and, to use Melvin's repulsive example, b. if my enemy defecates on me, disgusting as that is, it is not the same as someone who is professing to be my friend is defecating on me while also raping me while continuing to maintain they are my friend all while I am a child and they are an adult who I should be able to automatically trust to treat me better. A demon doing this just isn't the same thing. Not that I've generally heard on demons defecating being non physical being as they are.

What you're doing is a moral fallacy. By suggesting this you are reducing the moral magnitude of what the sex predator actually did into something that can be compensated for simply by them somehow experiencing some sort of equivalence of the what they did. That's a morally repulsive idea and a step into very dangerous territory.

Not you're making a fallacy. If you're suggesting that supranatural knowledge of the wider world in your near vicinity equates to proof that what is subsequently experience in what is supposedly the next world is a real objective experience.

A year or so ago, scientists attempted to test NDEs. Never mind shoes they put specially designed pictures up high in surgery rooms where people might be expected to have near-death experiences. These pictures were not in any place where they could be seen from the room its self. Only someone who had an out of body experience would have any chance of seeing them although the scientists who put them there obviously knew what they looked like. The intent was to ask people after they came out of surgery if they had had any NDE-like observations and check to see if they could describe the secret image or images. It would be taken that if they generally could identify the image they had probably had some objective experience at least to that point while if they couldn't they hadn't. I never heard much affirming result from this study, which I would have expected if it went well for NDEs, and now I read they've developed a drug that can simulate the experience.

Now to me this was always dubious all it proves, at most is that maybe humans have more senses and abilities than we know about and in these circumstances we sometimes become able to access them. These drugs may simply provide another path. It proves nothing.

It certainly doesn't make the experiences objective. They remain subjective because they can't be directly shared with or experienced by anyone else.

My experience of Hell was a nightmare in which I was in a dark and incredibly empty place, a lot of the experience has passed now but the feelings I remember having were sorrowful and negative and at a level I don't remember ever experiencing in life. What was most palpable about this dream was that I kept waking up but every time I went to sleep I was right back there again. I can't remember ever having another dream which I didn't leave behind upon waking, I've occasionally  had nightmares that have recurred years later but I can't remember ever having another dream that I kept returning to as soon as I went back to sleep.  Eventually I cast a patronus, so to speak, and rose out of this dark place at which point I woke up and next time i went to sleep I didn't experience the Hellish place. But I'm sure you find that mundane and very disappointing.

[GodIsLove]

I think sometimes people have fever or drug induced dreams and hallucinations that mean nothing.

Another possibility is these are actual experiences or visions but since we can't prove it we can't say for certain what is going on and IMO they be misinterpreted.

I would certainly like this guy's vision to be a fever induced meaningless dream because it is so awful.

I 100 percent believe that IF anything hellish happens in this world or another it is NOT God's will or His doing, more that He is allowing something to take place in the same way hellish things happen here on earth, as part of us working out, as Marie likes to point out, the futility of our wandering from
God in order to bring us to the realization that we were wrong and seek Him and His ways (repentance, obedience, etc).  I think that we do reap what we sow just as a law of cause and effect, that is in effect on Earth as much as anywhere else, not that God will do evil to us via demons to get us back. I think the numerous passages about forgiveness and love show that God's nature is contrary to this idea.

I hesitate to cite NDEs since they are not proof of anything because they are subjective and individual experiences, but I did read one that said that after death, if one does not respond to the light/God/Christ, the person will temporarily be "separate" from God until the person is willing to respond to or seek out God, similar to being here on earth like attracts like, and so they are surrounded by other similarly lost people, but that God's angels are constantly ministering to them to get them to respond to and turn to God.

IF anything like hell exists in the next world I believe it to be something like that, where the illusion of separation from God is internal and there is always a chance to "get out" and come into his presence. If there is a hell I think like CS Lewis speculated, that it is self induced. So maybe the vision is people being tormented by the memories of their own past deeds against others and how that can torment a person. That torment can exist here on earth as well, when we realize we have acted in ways that are unloving and hurtful and even evil and how our actions have negatively affected others.

But it's all speculation at this point and the good news is we know the end result, the "all in all."

[marie glen]

I hesitate to cite NDEs since they are not proof of anything because they are subjective and individual experiences, but I did read one that said that after death, if one does not respond to the light/God/Christ, the person will temporarily be "separate" from God until the person is willing to respond to or seek out God, similar to being here on earth like attracts like, and so they are surrounded by other similarly lost people, but that God's angels are constantly ministering to them to get them to respond to and turn to God.

IF anything like hell exists in the next world I believe it to be something like that, where the illusion of separation from God is internal and there is always a chance to "get out" and come into his presence. If there is a hell I think like CS Lewis speculated, that it is self induced. So maybe the vision is people being tormented by the memories of their own past deeds against others and how that can torment a person. That torment can exist here on earth as well, when we realize we have acted in ways that are unloving and hurtful and even evil and how our actions have negatively affected others.

    :iagree: ..it makes more sense, to me, than any sort of God imposed torment or punishment.. I tend to think in terms of reaping as we sow and things running their natural course just naturally wind up proving God right (in all things).. when things crash n burn, as the saying goes, whether it's individual or collective, we find out God was right after all..

   ....the good news is we know the end result, the "all in all."

:thumbsup: :girlheart:

[DavidFord]

A lot of child sex abusers are previously victims of child sex abuse so the idea of then inflicting what they did on them and called it justice becomes difficult. and it's not very constructive to go back down the chain and find the people who weren't any sort of victim of child sex abuse and inflicting child sex abuse on them because a. their actions may well not be on the same level as those that followed them, b. their society may not have been sufficiently opposed to the concept and c. they're no longer children so the situation's not the same.
That last one is a particularly important moral point because a. there's no reason to think doing to them whatever they did to their victims will produce any sort of remorse or repentance for actions we can already be sure they knew were evil and, to use Melvin's repulsive example, b. if my enemy defecates on me, disgusting as that is, it is not the same as someone who is professing to be my friend is defecating on me while also raping me while continuing to maintain they are my friend all while I am a child and they are an adult who I should be able to automatically trust to treat me better. A demon doing this just isn't the same thing. Not that I've generally heard on demons defecating being non physical being as they are.
What you're doing is a moral fallacy. By suggesting this you are reducing the moral magnitude of what the sex predator actually did into something that can be compensated for simply by them somehow experiencing some sort of equivalence of the what they did. That's a morally repulsive idea and a step into very dangerous territory.
Not you're making a fallacy. If you're suggesting that supranatural knowledge of the wider world in your near vicinity equates to proof that what is subsequently experience in what is supposedly the next world is a real objective experience.

"A lot of child sex abusers are previously victims of child sex abuse"
Indeed.  And Hitler's atheist father beat him when he was a boy.

"the idea of then inflicting what they did on them and called it justice becomes difficult"
I didn't call it justice.

"there's no reason to think doing to them whatever they did to their victims will produce any sort of remorse or repentance for actions"
Melvin said one guy was regretting having put another in prison.  Maybe the regret was remorse.

"we can already be sure they knew were evil"
People lie to themselves regularly.  There's gradations of confidence in knowing something.

"to use Melvin's repulsive example, b. if my enemy defecates on me, disgusting as that is, it is not the same as someone who is professing to be my friend is defecating on me while also raping me while continuing to maintain they are my friend all while I am a child and they are an adult who I should be able to automatically trust to treat me better. A demon doing this just isn't the same thing."
Melvin said demons mistreating humans took on the appearance of humans. 
God allows demons to harm people this side of the grave; Melvin's account has demons harming people the other side of the grave.  Fallen angels will be judged for their misdeeds, regardless of where they committed them.

Jn 10:10 (based on Younan)
A thief does not come but that (he) may steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may have life,
and they may have something which is abundant.

1Cor 6:3 (KJV) Know ye not that we shall judge angels?.... 

"Not that I've generally heard on demons defecating being non physical being as they are"
I've read in a couple places that demons can take on physical form.  In Melvin's account, non-physical demons were mistreating non-physical humans.

"you are reducing the moral magnitude of what the sex predator actually did into something that can be compensated for simply by them somehow experiencing some sort of equivalence of the what they did"
I didn't say compensated.

"My experience of Hell was a nightmare in which I was in a dark and incredibly empty place, a lot of the experience has passed now but the feelings I remember having were sorrowful and negative and at a level I don't remember ever experiencing in life. What was most palpable about this dream was that I kept waking up but every time I went to sleep I was right back there again. I can't remember ever having another dream which I didn't leave behind upon waking, I've occasionally  had nightmares that have recurred years later but I can't remember ever having another dream that I kept returning to as soon as I went back to sleep.  Eventually I cast a patronus, so to speak, and rose out of this dark place at which point I woke up and next time i went to sleep I didn't experience the Hellish place."
Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

[DavidFord]

I would certainly like this guy's vision to be a fever induced meaningless dream because it is so awful.

Agreed.  Problem is, I accept Melvin's account-- it has the ring of truth.  Maybe I'm just being gullible.
"it is so awful"
Heaven is so wonderful.
1Cor 2:9 (KJV) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

[sheila]

Jesus said'Fear not those that can kill the body...and then do nothing else..[Paulsaid'turn such a one over to satan for the destruction

of the flesh..that the spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.]Rather fear Him who has the power.........

Lof  PREPARED for satan and his angels...Kingdom prepared for all men....thanks to redemption and the Lamb that takes away all their sin.


  Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of'light'..but if the "light"that BE IN YOU..be darkness...how great is that darkness.

May the Lord cause HIS FACE to shine upon you .   Look! the people dwelling in great darkness...have seen a great light!

  We shallnot all die,FOR WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED!in the twinkling of an eye. that which is corrupt must put on incorruption,

that which is mortal must put on immortality.

Look! I make all things NEW!!!!!!!!Just as allmen havebore the image of the corrupt..SO TOO,shall all men bear the image of

the incorrupt!

Rev ch 17,18In her was found the bloodof the prophets and the saints..AND OF ALL WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED ON THE EARTH.

Babylon=CONFUSION OF THE PEOPLE regardingwho what God is,what He wants,what He thinks,what He is doing and what Hewilldo.

when partaking of the TOKOGAE..the warring and confusion in the minds ofmen began.The mixing of darkness with light..with many

false images of God[idols/teachings of demons] Jesus described the peopleof Hs day..as sheep without a shepherd..because

offspring of viper spirits had overcome the religious leaders to such an extent..that they didn't even recognize the Word of God and truth

when it was spoken unto them..along with great signs and wonders.

in Elijah'sday the people were confused as unto who represented the TRUE GOD,also.Baal? Asherah/prophets of the groves?Lying spirits

confusing the people yet again.

antichrist spirit is judgement without mercy[law-eye for an eye,tooth for a tooth...and all will end up blind with incomprehensive

speech/WORD of God.] the law is to serve as a tutour to lead you to Christ/the mercy forgiveness of God unto all men..a free gift..not

a works based/merit system of judgement.The law is written to restrain the sin in our flesh..but surely we know by now that we have all

been bound up[ensnared in it]ordisobedient in one way or another..so that no flesh can boast? We haven't forgotten that God's

power is made perfect in weakness. You must be perfect,likeyour Father/God. Love is a perfect bond of union[oneness]it keeps no

account of the injury...but freely forgives. The power of God/Love...transforms/changes/forgives/heals....

For I will not always find fault..for then the very spirit[love] would fail.

[GodIsLove]

Sheila!! :friendstu: