Physical bodily resurrection of the dead

[MrsOzera]

Hiya everyone :) I hope everyone's week is going great!

I recently have been thinking about the resurrection a lot and the idea of a bodily resurrection of the dead. Now, I'm really not trying to judge or dictate what anyone should believe. This is just personally what I have been led to. But, I am fully convinced (which I truly believe is a prompting of the Holy Spirit) that the resurrection of the dead (at the end of the world/age/aeion/whatever (lol) is physical and bodily. I definitely don't believe that our bodies will be an exact replication of what they are now. I love the seed metaphor which Paul uses. Our bodies now are seeds and will flourish into exactly what our Creator intended them to be, both spiritual and physical. I personally also believe humans were created to be embodied beings (rather than just a spirit using a body - if that makes sense.

I, however, have been feeling a bit disheartened. During the course of my UR research, almost all of the resources I come across (like over 90%) don't believe in a bodily resurrection or a life on a New (restored) Earth. I don't personally have ANY issues with Preterism, btw. In fact, I personally consider myself to be a Partial Preterist. :)

Anyway, I just kinda wanted to ask, are there any good online UR resources that do believe in a physical resurrection? I hope that no one feels attacked by this post btw :) my purpose isn't to argue doctrine or debate or anything, but maybe to just feel a little bit less alone. I feel like it's really hard sometimes believing UR and also holding believes like salvation by faith alone, a final resurrection, etc. It would be good to know that I'm not the only one out there :dsunny:

[jabcat]

Don't have any resources handy, but to let you know you're not alone - I too believe in a resurrected new body, "changed in the twinkling of an eye".   :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

I believe that our resurrection will be as Jesus' resurrection, in a body that is physical but spiritually glorified ....."Brethren, we know not yet what we shall be but when He appears we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

Even as death is swallowed up by immortality the physical will be swallowed up by the spiritual, "Behold I am making all things new".

Completely gathered into the all in all and spiritually renewed beyond anything our minds can presently conceive.

I marvel at the attempts of believers to specifically define that which John said he could not define, and Paul as well described as a diversity of glories like unto the moon, the planets and the stars.....  and as yet unknown.


1 Cor 15
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

John 20:27:42
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup: john

[MrsOzera]

Don't have any resources handy, but to let you know you're not alone - I too believe in a resurrected new body, "changed in the twinkling of an eye".   :thumbsup: :dsunny:

Hi :) I'm sorry for this maybe sounding a bit weird but you have no idea how relieved I am to hear that. God bless :dsunny:

[MrsOzera]

I believe that our resurrection will be as Jesus' resurrection, in a body that is physical but spiritually glorified ....."Brethren, we know not yet what we shall be but when He appears we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

Even as death is swallowed up by immortality the physical will be swallowed up by the spiritual, "Behold I am making all things new".

Completely gathered into the all in all and spiritually renewed beyond anything our minds can presently conceive.

I marvel at the attempts of believers to specifically define that which John said he could not define, and Paul as well described as a diversity of glories like unto the moon, the planets and the stars.....  and as yet unknown.


1 Cor 15
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

John 20:27:42
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

:iagree: :dsunny: :banana:

[eaglesway]

Does not sound weird at all. Paul declared that he was on trial for proclaiming the resurrection of the dead. In Acts 17 the thing it says the assembled philosophers at Mars Hill wanted to continue the conversation about was the resurrection of the dead. In Hebrews 6 the "resurrection of the dead" is one of 6 foundation doctrines that must be understood before one can move on into maturity.

With the assault that is being made upon this important doctrine among believers and unbelievers alike in this day, it is an extremely important issue upon which we must STAND in order to have a secure foundation as disciples correctly teaching the gospel.

[rosered]

 
Amen !!  :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

  I believe it will be a gloried body also  , Like Jesus showed  James and Perter on the mount ,His body   Shone  like brilliant  white light  and   even Moses and  Elijah was recognizable    to them  :thumbsup:

But incorruptible  , I wonder if they were seeing with physical eyes or with eyes of the Spirit , It is the LORD   that gives us

a  new clean heart  / removing the idols   and new  spirit  within  , that  healing  , so we can see Him and  ears to hear what the Spirit is saying   , I know Jesus told them   at the foot washing  , that they were clean because of the Word He spoke to them .. but continue to wash one another feet   was His   command to  give an authoritative order.

Ezekiel 36 A New Heart and Spirit
...25"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean;

I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you;

and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances....
 
I believe the heart of flesh is Jesus    Love for His Father  as we are to  '' eat my body and drink my blood '' , that you may have Life in you  , that is to say,  Keep consuming  HIS WORD of truth  and do not forget to share   . :friendstu:

[marie glen]

MrsOzera, I think I know how you feel. Lately I am feeling a general disillusionment with the whole body of Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I still love them.. but geesh, how did we get to the point where there is so much differences in view and belief.. and here we are all reading and studying the same bible! (I surely wish we all had a brief, down to earth message to deliver and communicate. Especially UR, so we could be heard above the babble.)

But.. enough of that rant(?)

I came across this just yesterday which I found very interesting.. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John.. So pretty close to the original message as the apostles heard it.

Irenaeus' "Rule of Faith" (Late 2nd Century)
"...this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; And in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; And in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race..."

I found the quote here, a page about Christian creeds - http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/the-importance-and-early-use-of-creeds/
   :dontknow: I'm curious now.. so will be on the look out for UR articles about this. :Peace2:

[marie glen]

Does not sound weird at all. Paul declared that he was on trial for proclaiming the resurrection of the dead. In Acts 17 the thing it says the assembled philosophers at Mars Hill wanted to continue the conversation about was the resurrection of the dead. In Hebrews 6 the "resurrection of the dead" is one of 6 foundation doctrines that must be understood before one can move on into maturity.

With the assault that is being made upon this important doctrine among believers and unbelievers alike in this day, it is an extremely important issue upon which we must STAND in order to have a secure foundation as disciples correctly teaching the gospel.

   Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[MusicLover123]

MrsOzera, I think I know how you feel. Lately I am feeling a general disillusionment with the whole body of Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I still love them.. but geesh, how did we get to the point where there is so much differences in view and belief.. and here we are all reading and studying the same bible! (I surely wish we all had a brief, down to earth message to deliver and communicate. Especially UR, so we could be heard above the babble.)

Sorry to be that guy, but when I read this it quickly came to mind, that, we are called to love our enemies. This may not only include strangers that we meet for the first time, but also those who we most notably care for the most, and everything in between. When we love our enemies, we do not do it for something in return, we do it because of God, and for the sake of goodness. When someone acts a way you dislike vehemently, just put that outside of your communal conversations! No benefit is given through vengeance, through revenge, through payback. When they fall of the rails, we acted, act, and will act as an anchor, to be there for them when things go wrong. Even without our presence, may they see the light of Christ in us, and they remember someone to grow in, to mature with, and to love.

So, to recap, we love because God loves, we give because God gives, and we heal others because God heals us.

Good find though! I am aware of that ministry, though, I haven't read their creed yet.

As for MrsOzera, I believe what you said as well. Honestly, I thought a bodily resurrection was what a majority of people believed until you mentioned the opposite! At least, pertaining to more UR minded believers. I did know, though, that most people believe in a far away place called Heaven(basically a Christian Nirvana) instead of New Earth life. In fact, I was one of those people until recently. :)

I love the seed metaphor which Paul uses. Our bodies now are seeds and will flourish into exactly what our Creator intended them to be, both spiritual and physical.

That is a good find as well! We are basically God as a gardener makes sense here. We are planted now, nourished by Christ, and watered by God. And, later on, our glorified selves will be as flowers that spring forth on the first day of Spring.

I personally also believe humans were created to be embodied beings (rather than just a spirit using a body - if that makes sense.

Well, for me, I believe we are souls that use a body and are powered by the Spirit. Are you powered by God, are powered by worldly desires and stuck in the flesh? I also find it interesting that Adam "became a living soul" with the Breath of Life(God's Spirit) and was not already a living soul before that. I ain't perfect though, and still in the process of studying.

I hope that no one feels attacked by this post btw :)

I mean, you talk in such a kind manner, that I do not think anyone would feel you are attacking others...

Only people who disagree with your sentiments, and read your words out of context may think that. But, that may be stretching it a little.

I feel like it's really hard sometimes believing UR and also holding believes like salvation by faith alone, a final resurrection, etc. It would be good to know that I'm not the only one out there :dsunny:

If it makes you feel any better, I would be one of those people. Even if they do not share our convictions, just continue to love others! I know, it is a hard thing to do. But hey, remember Christ, "The Author and Finisher of our Faith." He empowers us to do these things, and is a light within ourselves that shines out darkness. And, remember this, that "God is Love" and "Love never fails." Love is God, so when we say Love never fails, God never fails. He will accomplish all things through love, and everything will be OK in the end.  :dsunny:

[marie glen]

Amen ML!  :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :cloud9:

[sheila]

the Christ[seed] and resurrected body took on many forms.....the fleshly bodythe disciples could touch,complete with it's wounds.....

an unrecognized gardner..a stranger on the road etc..and as a being with eyes of fire and great glory.


  if...the same spirit be in you..that was in Christ Jesus.......this  same spiritual body/likeness/image is what we shall bear.

   the newearth[man/Adam] the spirits of just men made perfect..forthe oldman/earth/Adam is passing away


   I do not expectnorbelieve God has purposed to resurrect all men who ever lived tocome back

and dwell on this present earth..for eternity...become pretty crowded,eh? besides the natural heavens...dissolving..this universe

just can not contain all of God's  stars/much less our little Milky Way.God, Eternity/immortality is much bigger than our little

planet earth,I believe.


sure it would be nice if all were in agreement now in everything....if allspoke one truth...no confusion..etc..but God confused the

tougnes at Babel for His purpose.Who knowsif perhaps our Father is cultivating patience long-suffering and love for those who differ

in understanding,cultures,nationality,etc.


Manyvirgins/churches are snoozing comfortbly[complacently satisfied with

their understanding/doctrines.]perhaps the sound'theBridegroom cometh!" will arouse them all...andthey willtake along extra vessels of

oil for light in their lamps.....much needed tojoin the weddingsupper/union/the true sayingsof God.....but Jesus showed many

would miss out on this side.


Howdid those virgins get those extra vessels of oil,anyway? they asked with a right heart motive...they made friends for themselves in

heaven. Now,Jesus also hasmany a 'friend"like Judas,too.that betray Him with a kiss for filthy lucre..the Balaam for hire class ;

that cursewhat Godhas blessed for silver/andgold!..they will say..God is with them..He beholds no iniquity in them.


     they also be jezebels that teach sexual immorality and idolatry to cause His people to fall/Baal of Peor worship.


       All kinds of traps and snares for the people of God to cause them to fail to enter on this side. Ask! seek,knock!   

[CHB]

I believe that our resurrection will be as Jesus' resurrection, in a body that is physical but spiritually glorified ....."Brethren, we know not yet what we shall be but when He appears we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

Even as death is swallowed up by immortality the physical will be swallowed up by the spiritual, "Behold I am making all things new".

1 Cor 15
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

John 20:27:42
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

I also agree that our resurrection will be like that of Jesus. When Jesus was resurrected and went to heaven he took the body that he was buried with, only it had been changed. I believe his body became a spiritual body. I have a hard time with this belief that some Churches have. They say,"we will go to heaven or hell when we die but at the resurrection we will come back and be rejoined with our physical bodies which will be changed to immortal". Just can't wrap my mind around that one. if we go to heaven when we die, why come back to be reunited with a mortal body that will be changed to immortal? Just doesn't make sense. When Jesus was resurrected he didn't leave a body behind. Anyone have an idea on this?

CHB

[marie glen]

the Christ[seed] and resurrected body took on many forms.....the fleshly bodythe disciples could touch,complete with it's wounds.....

an unrecognized gardner..a stranger on the road etc..and as a being with eyes of fire and great glory.


  if...the same spirit be in you..that was in Christ Jesus.......this  same spiritual body/likeness/image is what we shall bear.

Amen! Like EW and others have said too..

I also agree that our resurrection will be like that of Jesus. When Jesus was resurrected and went to heaven he took the body that he was buried with, only it had been changed. I believe his body became a spiritual body. I have a hard time with this belief that some Churches have. They say,"we will go to heaven or hell when we die but at the resurrection we will come back and be rejoined with our physical bodies which will be changed to immortal". Just can't wrap my mind around that one. if we go to heaven when we die, why come back to be reunited with a mortal body that will be changed to immortal? Just doesn't make sense. When Jesus was resurrected he didn't leave a body behind. Anyone have an idea on this?

CHB

I read a commentary which said the 'souls' (greek- psych?) of the unsaved will be reunited with their bodies so they will suffer the greatest torment possible. :faint:

I always think of how Paul said "with what sort of body will they rise?" and not "will they inhabit". :dontknow:
My own view, and of course there are many views and scriptures which seem to support both views.. but mine is that all who are dead are "asleep".. maybe 'ghosts' are dreaming sleeping dead?  :dontknow: that may be a silly idea.. But in my mind I see graves as beds with headstones.. And all will awaken by hearing His voice.. those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

...."good" the greek includes inherently good, practicing - born again!
        resurrection of "judgment" - greek - krisis: a decision, judgment ...accusation

I think the verse - those He chooses / designates, He calls (summons) and those He summons, He glorifies..

I think of the summoning of those not saved before their death, will occur on Judgment 'Day'..

But like the example of the tent of meeting and temple, is how the priest entered the first veil.. and burns incense before the second veil - Jesus takes us into the holy place behind the first veil.. and we offer prayer at the altar (of incense/"prayers of the saints").. Then glory of glories, as our high priest He takes us into the holy of holies where "God meets with us there" -- What I'm trying to say - the process requires summons - response (altar of incense, bullocks on His altar) which response, as we know includes repentance / some degree of weeping, and, or, gnashing of teeth.. the lake/pond/crucible of fire? (refiner's crucible - "our God is a consuming fire" also in degree?)

Anyway, that's my theory as to what I think the scriptures are saying.. Not that I think I said it very clearly

sure it would be nice if all were in agreement now in everything....if allspoke one truth...no confusion..etc..but God confused the

tougnes at Babel for His purpose.Who knowsif perhaps our Father is cultivating patience long-suffering and love for those who differ

in understanding,cultures,nationality,etc.

Amen! I think you may be right about that! It seems to me He wants to have a family of many beautiful branches.. and not just one sort.. (glory!)

   I do not expectnorbelieve God has purposed to resurrect all men who ever lived tocome back

and dwell on this present earth..for eternity...become pretty crowded,eh? besides the natural heavens...dissolving..this universe

just can not contain all of God's  stars/much less our little Milky Way.God, Eternity/immortality is much bigger than our little

planet earth,I believe.

Me too!

Manyvirgins/churches are snoozing comfortbly[complacently satisfied with

their understanding/doctrines.]perhaps the sound'theBridegroom cometh!" will arouse them all...andthey willtake along extra vessels of

oil for light in their lamps.....much needed tojoin the weddingsupper/union/the true sayingsof God...
          All kinds of traps and snares for the people of God to cause them to fail to enter on this side. Ask! seek,knock!

:thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

I also agree that our resurrection will be like that of Jesus. When Jesus was resurrected and went to heaven he took the body that he was buried with, only it had been changed. I believe his body became a spiritual body. I have a hard time with this belief that some Churches have. They say,"we will go to heaven or hell when we die but at the resurrection we will come back and be rejoined with our physical bodies which will be changed to immortal". Just can't wrap my mind around that one. if we go to heaven when we die, why come back to be reunited with a mortal body that will be changed to immortal? Just doesn't make sense. When Jesus was resurrected he didn't leave a body behind. Anyone have an idea on this?

CHB

I think it's not that simple.
When Jesus was still/again among the disciples He had a human looking* body with flesh and bones. He said so. Thomas was even allowed to feel.

*=maybe it was, but that body could appear in houses with closed doors

1 Cor. 15:50-56
It's easy to say: See Jesus had a touchable body, the verses above speak about a body too. Not about a ghost like seen in movies. That's 100% true. What's also 100% true is that the Bible speaks about transformed bodies. Does that mean God just slaps on some anti-age creme? Or is it so vastly different that it only looks like a body?

There are verses about priests chancing  garments depending where the serve. The Bible calls our body, body, temple, tent and garments.

Somewhere on the big vast internet is a good article about priest serving in wool and linen. Deut 22:11 forbids the two fabrics together in one garment.
They changed garments based on where they served.

My point is that it is possible to conclude from all info combined that theChrist that is right now sitting on His throne in heaven is of another substance than Thomas touched.
Linen vs wool clothing.

:2c:

[rosered]

  Amen WW !!  :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :iagree:


Joshua change of garments   Zech 3 ;3 Clean Garments for Joshua the High Priest
...2The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" 3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. 4He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, "Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes."...

as far as ghosts go , the Spirits nature is to rise up .where do they fly away to ?

Psalm 90:10 (NASB)
10 As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years,
Or if due to strength, eighty years,
Yet their pride is but labor and sorrow;
For soon it is gone and we fly away.

[GodIsLove]

I tend not to believe wholly one way or another on the details.

My only thought is that if a bodily resurrection happens it isn't our exact human fleshly body because:

What about people who are blown up/horribly disfigured upon death?
What about people who live life with a physical disability or deformity?
What about those who are cremated?
What about decomposition after death?

So my thoughts are it must be different from our current body if that's what happens.

[bbyrd009]

How did we get from
"I came that you might have life, and more abundantly"
to
"I can't wait to die, and 'go to heaven'?"

http://bbyrd009.blogspot.com/2017/12/recognize-fallacy-of-death-centric.html

[jabcat]

I agree we should live each day rejoicing in His presence.  However, Paul seemed to sure be looking forward to the resurrection.  Talked about being ready to go, better to be with Him than here, etc.

I believe Jesus was talking about life, not just as "this brief-as-a-vapor time in this world as we know it".   :Chinscratch:  IMO, "life" in Him is now and future, with most of it in "eternity".   :2c:

my thoughts are it must be different from our current body if that's what happens.

:thumbsup:

[marie glen]

I agree with all of the above.. a body.. different substance.. and capabilities (imo) but a body nonetheless, not just a 'ghost' or a vapor.. and all will be one, all persons, and all with God (Yhvh) and Jesus.. but not as a big blob of intelligence.. but as bodies able to walk, run, jump, dance.. able to hug a lion.. but also able to instantaneously travel, or so it seems to me.. And existence in a earth made new paradise, garden and universe..
         :gsmile:

[sheila]

well,how did you get from our discussing  being raised up incorruptible/immortal...and what type of body it may be....as...Ican't wait

to die and go to heaven fallacy? :2c:

[eaglesway]

Going to heaven and going to hell are incursions of pagan myths that were used to manipulate men to labor and war and force women into subjection. These things are still used among primitive men today.

"If you dont preach Hell, you are going to Hell"

"Kill innocents for Allah and you will be welcomed into paradise"

"Obey the priests, preachers, mullahs or you will burn in hell forever"

Nirvana is represented as the sublime perfection of nothingness, a state where"being" without thought or physical activity..



Yet Paul said when he was caught up into the third heaven he did not kno whether he was in the body or out.

A good question is, "When Phillip was whisked from the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch did he travel quickly through the air? or did he pass through the heavens, as in- another dimension?"

Is heaven up? Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within.

I think that when John says we dont yet kno what we will be it is because it is just too glorious to receive in a mortal body.

"Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Bodies will be resurrected but they will not be like anything we can now conceive. Jesus walked through walls. Ascended and descended. Appeared and disappeared. Spoke as an ethereal voice to Paul.

Bodies will be resurrected but not until the spirit, the heart, the soul that must be resurrected first-from within.

The first Adam became a living soul...the second Adam(new creation) a life giving spirit.

I am not espousing any clear answer here ;o) Just saying that....

We know not yet what we shall be.... but man what a great mystery to contemplate. The desire to put these amazing truths in little boxes is something I dont get. I still love the fuzzy edges that leave me so much hope and expectancy for joy unspeakable and full of glory.

To be filled up to all the fulness of God, Exceedingly abundantly beyond anything we could ask or think- Glories beyond compare.

[MusicLover123]

How did we get from
"I came that you might have life, and more abundantly"
to
"I can't wait to die, and 'go to heaven'?"

Well, I can think of one. What if you are just so tired of living in the flesh, that you are prepared to finally experience God now? That you do not want just a small sliver of the experience, but to finally have that veil removed, where all is restored, and all is in God? That we may finally be able to see His face in all of His Glory?   :2c:

[marie glen]

Amen, EW  ..... :cloud9: