lake of fire with sulfur is the image of an ancient gold refining process

[marie glen]

This site (page) says about the lake of fire - Proverbs 17:3 - "The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, but the Lord tests the hearts."

I thought the article was very good at communicating this.. :thumbsup:

http://thetotalvictoryofchrist.com/whatisthelakeoffire.pdf

Some quotes from it:

The actual
word picture used in these passages has been completely lost in translation simply
because the translators are not metallurgists. Are you curious? Keep reading.
The lake of fire with sulfur is the image of an ancient gold refining process. Literally a
crucible of molten gold with sulfur added to eliminate impurities. This understanding is
confirmed in Revelation 3:18. "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire." Christ
himself uses the image of gold refined in fire when rebuking the church in Laodicea for
being neither hot nor cold.
The lake of fire was never meant to be understood as an actual lake or realm of
punishment in literal fire. Rather the lake of fire is merely a picture of the gold refiner's
crucible, the process of purifying gold. Understanding the imagery of the Greek words
behind these passages brings the text to life.

and..

The Greek word translated as "torment" is
actually the word "touchstone". This is the Greek word "basanizó". "Cognate: 931
básanos – originally, a black, silicon-based stone used as "a touchstone" to test the
purity of precious metals (like silver and gold)." - (Strong's Concordance). The Greek
word básanos is where we get the word "basalt", a type of rock that was used for making
touchstones in the ancient world.
The use of the word touchstone absolutely confirms the lake of fire is a gold refiner's
crucible. A touchstone was used in ancient times to check the purity of gold and is still
used by jewelers today. By the striking a line of gold on the touchstone the color
produced reveals the level of purity. That is the meaning of the word "tormented" in
modern bibles, a process for testing the purity of gold.

The Apostle John is using the abstract idea of a person being refined, then tested and refined again.

tested / tempering - "a process whereby metal is strengthened"

     :Chinscratch: the gold being made stronger.. tempered.. (and this life of tribulation tempers the gold..)

This passage should be translated:
"The devil who deceived them was thrown into the refiner's crucible with
sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tested (tempered)
for purity day and night in the ages of ages." - Revelation 20:10.

biblehub's interlinear "for the ages of the ages"

[Dandelion]

Whow, Marie! I would say that this is a great find!

It pulls together so many of the thoughts and concepts that we speak about on our blog.

Definitely one to remember when explaining how the Bible supports UR.

D.

[Ross]

Literal refining is the best explanation for the process- literally getting rid of the dross/rubbish.
Not a five minute job, but is a purification process. The sacrificial illustrations point to the need for that process, especially when we consider we are to be in a greater state of being with much more responsibility so need to be properly trained to that one purpose.
Nice find Marie.

[jugghead]

 :iagree: great find

I did know about the word "torment" being touchstone and I believed the lake of fire was a purifying process

so now I KNOW both to be true

Just goes to show us the wisdom of the Father

[Cardinal]

Excellent find.  :thumbsup: Blessings...

[darryl]

good stuff....totally supports the thought in Jeremiah where God says it never even entered His mind to burn human beings in fire like Molech commands....how on earth could the hellists misconstrue the Lake  of Fire as a giant liquid fire torture chamber ?

[Andrew]

if only preachers and churches knew about this...

[Universell]

But what about satan? Is he also Only tested ?
He is asking Jesus if he is going to torture him before its time in one Verse?

Matthew 8:29
What you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?

It does seem to point to the day of judgement/lake of fire tho and not hell

[rosered]

But what about satan? Is he also Only tested ?
He is asking Jesus if he is going to torture him before its time in one Verse?

Matthew 8:29
What you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?

It does seem to point to the day of judgement/lake of fire tho and not hell

Hello  Universell , nice to meet you ...    :friendstu:



Not saying that any of us could ever figure out the mind of God on this side of the Jordan , which means an action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.
"the plane had gone into a steep descent"
synonyms:   dive, drop; More
2.
the origin or background of a person in terms of family or nationality.
"American families of Hungarian descent"
synonyms:   ancestry, parentage, ancestors, family,

A baptism of sorts    in my   modest opinion  , have two  meanings and  two ways to look upon   Gods WORD  , as a two edged Sword cutting both ways  .

It is appointed unto man  to die once and than the judgment ...    and we know in Adam all die   but in Christ all is made alive

So to me  in my very simple understanding and child like   trust in Gods Word .
I see all mankind/Adam  doing this on a daily basis  .

When we are baptized  into Christs death  , Just as Paul considered to know nothing  from now on , but  Jesus Christ and Him crucified     in the center    of the two  natures /laws   men    , leaving that old law and nature behind  him ,not to be remembered no more   [old man of sin nature in Adam  . and the new man    TODAY  , You shall be with me in paradise ,   Get behind me satan   ....because to me only satan can  tempt us though that old nature and  law of our members being in the body of death    this being our flesh where no good thing dwells . and the new man in Christ    is now  born again of God and  is a new creation ,     the CROSS   IS WHERE JESUS CHRIST   AND THE GRACE OF GOD  IS IN EFFECT ....

We belong to GOD   and live and move and have our being though the body of Christ and is LIFE  in the Spirit of God and walking in it    , the HOLY SPIRIT teaching us , this powerful WORD   with the mind of Christ   , to do  thy will oh GOD   

and the fire of purification to cleanse us of all unrighteousness ...  The same HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE   , JESUS BREATHED ON THE disciples /students of the WORD  ,    to be received of Him    .touch not the unclean thing [Spirit of prideful Babylon/self righteousness   ]  and I will receive you !!
When  we go back to the law of sin and death  we become  judges and are judged   in my opinion being  unmerciful  unloving and unforgiving , the law of knowledge   of good and evil  is the same tree Christ hung upon , being the  one and only  SON OF GOD to destroy the works of the devil by HIS OFFERING /BLOOD OF  THE LAMB OF GOD to take away the sins the whole world !! 
  so  this new  man that confessed his sin   before Jesus and also confessed  Jesus Christ innocence    was  to rise in Christ ,  and this anointing of the Holy Spirit of our FATHER /GOD in HIS WISDOM   and fire , HIM being a jealous God  .Now   the Cross to me is a metaphor   of passing from death to Life in Christ     and His newness of His creation . 
For me it is  of What Paul expounded  upon the WORD OF JESUS CHRIST   TO OBTAIN  strength to be able to  walk in the Spirit of Gods love and protection   , we are not our own     .
The Holy Spirit and Fire is what keeps us  near to Gods heart    and  keeps the   evil one at bay  , lest the fire of testing  our faith teaches us  a lesson of what touch not, do not go back  , but forward running the race  JESUS CHRIST IS THE PRIZE  , IN  the Body of Life  is all good things dwell of the FATHER  OR  you will be burned  and consumed by it ..
I have just come though some fiery trials   my self , ever learning    GODS WORD IS TRUE ...........    :HeartThrob:
  the devils wrath  and time is short  , just as our time in the days of our flesh are also , Where no good thing dwells [it is the duster eaters portion ] and food for thought and does not inherit Gods kingdom     and  in Gods mercy He done this also for our sakes
    We suffer  for doing good [Spirit of truth]   like Jesus did   or we suffer for doing evil as the human race is doing   , but   these times are for suffering to learn  HIS righteousness  in the earth and for His glory  He will not give to another .  Isaiah 42  7To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. 8"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images. 9"Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you."...

and there is always so much more to learn of Him  and hope this may help in some small way  , your thoughts about this subject  universell :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

Revelation of Christ....seperates...Come you who are BLESSED..........from    You who are CURSED[devil  and his]...and expounds

  on their differing portions....the Kingdom prepared before the founding of this world....or the LOF. vessels of mercy vs vessels of

   God's wrath. LOF consumes and swallows up........sin and death.  we are instructed that as it refers unto men/Adam,,,,,,as we have

   allbore the image of the corrupt,so,too,shall we bear the image of the incorrupt[the kingdom prepared].

    this principle is pictured in Korah's rebellion...when the earth opened it's mouth and some men went down into the earth......

   and in the revelation of Christ ...the earth opened it's mouth and helped the woman...swallowing up the flood waters of the dragon

  which tried to sweep the woman away. sin in the flesh..condemned=our body of death..of which returns unto the dust.

....the free gift of Grace is the seed of resurrection in the spirit/likeness of Christ...raised up in incorruption.  Both life and death are

  ours...both images all men bear.....there is an end of the corrupt and a new beginning of the incorrupt for all men.

    Jesus took away all the sin...nailed it to the cross..........satan the accusor  can kill the body and then do no more......however

    God can then throw the spirit in the LOF...and also consume that if He chose to...but He did not choose to do that with man.......

   instead  He gave the free gift of eternal life unto man....and chose to totally consume death and all corruption. LOF is that

   consummation....the end of sin,rebellion,temptations,trials..and also the end of the accusor/temptor/tester..........

     you do not test God nor can He be tempted of evil............satan/adversary has no further useful role unto God...and he knows his

time is short/temporal.  it is a torment unto him.....that his end is the lof

[Andrew]

yeah i understand where Universal is coming from because doesn't the bible say the lake of fire was originally created for Satan and his angels as a place of punishment, not a place for refining humans into gold?

[WhiteWings]

Does that mean God changed His mind?
:Chinscratch:

[eaglesway]

Jesus spoke in several places about the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels, and that certain people would also experience it, "Then will He say to those at His left, "'Begone from me, with the curse resting upon you, into the Fire of the Ages, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels Paul spoke about fire testing and purifying(Matthew 25:41 Weymouth)

Paul spoke of believers being purified by fire and the wicked being purged in fire in several places, as did Peter..

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. (1 Peter 4)

Jesus also says

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. (Rev 3:18).

So, the principle of fire purifying faith and correcting wickedness is all over the Bible

In Malachi 3, the scripture clearly speaks of Messiah purifying believers with fire...

"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3"He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. 4"Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.

Paul puts it like this.....

For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.(1 Corinthians 3)

James says, writing to a group of believers.....

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. 2Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. 3Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire.( James 5)

Jesus' eyes are as flames in Rev 1, and He says, "I am He that tries the reins and the hearts" and as it is written "He is the radiance of the Father's glory..... and ...."Our God is a consuming fire".

It is important Andrew, to know the scriptures yourself, and not just take another's word for what the Bible says. I could go on and on about examples of fire to purge evil and purify the righteous, but I wouldnt want to rob you of the joy of seeking the truth, and digging for treasure on your own so....

GET TO IT BROTHER!

[rosered]

  :thumbsup:   :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

   Amen   keep on  trying to do good  , Obeying  His voice  and ask for Gods help   to keep on  keeping on ! 


Calling upon the name of the Lord  , is our help in the hour of need   , When God knows our hearts  and sees   the sincerity  or seeing the    reason    , if it be   walking in the Spirit of Life or being to  satisfy  the flesh and pride of this life  , this being also why  , not everyone whom says Lord , Lord  shall be saved ...Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven............

Two edged SWORD  for sure  ....


But   also  Peter states ,    judgment begins in the house of the Lord  first .... Having received the HOLY SPIRIT &FIRE

Share the Sufferings of Christ
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.

14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler;


16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. 17 For it is time for judgment  to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner?

19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls/lives  to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
 

I do believe it is all about  hating  evil  in every sense of the word   , and finding no pleasure  in doing so .and it does start   Gods working within us  to change  us from walking in the flesh to walking in the Spirit .


Paul said of true believers in Philippians chapter 3, that they "glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh". It is impossible to walk by the Spirit and walk in my own strength. ... At least half of what it means to walk by the Spirit is to rest from my human striving  as in a carnal nature   against the Holy Spirit as the  Spirit of God rests upon  us when we hear  and obey His Voice and live,   as His possession   and not possessed by a spirit  that is not of God  but of the world  .
1.
the state of having, owning, or controlling something.
"
synonyms:   ownership, control, hands, keeping, care, custody, charge, hold, title, guardianship More
2.
an item of property; something belonging to one.
 

[darryl]

Zechariah 13:9 says:
'This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God'.

[jugghead]

we are His workmanship

[sheila]

I disagree that the scriptures say certain people will expierenceit it. He will refine the Levites[church leaders teachers etc that handle

  the Holy things..just as Judas lost his position] that they may make a righteous sacrifice[the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world]

    Jesus rebuked the Pharisees[church leaders] and those who did not repent..perished in Jerusalem[a fiery trial for sure]

     even their dead bodies burnt in Gehenna..as an example of the twice dead. Of whom represented the wicked one[satan and his angels]

     Howeverwe know that all Jerusalem is saved. as demons are invisible..when men's flesh is given over to satan for destruction, that

the spirit be saved on the Day of the Lord...the fruit of that invisible tree is manifested in men's flesh[know the tree by it's fruit/twice dead/two fold  the child of hell]

  Dead under the law..and the rejection of the saviour[grace]  Paul described himself as one born prematurely from this class,God

showing him mercy because he acted in ignorance.[Iwillshow him what he must suffer for my namesake.]..and Jesus sat  as a refiner

and purifier of the pharisees/sadducees....and rejected silver[30 pieces/blood money] they become.


  since satan and evil spirits are invisible...the flesh of men exhibit openly and outwardly 'their works are wicked" Thus satan

entered Judas flesh to betray Christ.[and the spirit of the liar was already in Judas]...Judas exhibiting openly the wicked works of

satan...liar theif murderer.


  we wrestle not flesh and blood..but powers and principalities in high places.


God teaches through positive negative examples...and King Saul..rejected..a spirit troubled him

   David's playing soothed Saul..but the spirit he was  handed over to manifest in murderous intent to David/spear throwing etc

and took  him to the destruction of his flesh.......just as the jewish religious leaders manifest murderous intent to Christ and the

believers.

    the LOF is prepared for satan and his angels only. Jude 7 IN a similiar way Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding town give

  themselves up to sexual immorality and perversions  THEY SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE OF THOSE  WHO SUFFER THE PUNISHMENT OF

ETERNAL FIRE.  thus some men serve as examples of satan and his coming destruction.   Just as  in a western you have the

white  hat and black hat.....acting roles. Moses and Pharoah,David and Goliath......example= to illustrate a rule or precept.

   illustrate=TO ENLIGHTEN MENTALLY  :2c:

[eaglesway]

The scripture says that the LOF was prepared by the devil and his angels in the midst of the verses where Jesus says some people will experience it,

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into gthe eternal fire(aionian fire) prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' 45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these,  you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous  into  eternal life." Mt 25

The verse that says the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, says that some people will experience it and several others like it, including Rev 20:10-15 and Matthew 18:8

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire".

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal(aionian) fire."

Again, imo the lake of fire is the presence of God and all the saints surrounding the throne, piercing the hearts of the wicked and exposing hidden things to the light....

"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb." Rev 14

9"I kept looking
            Until thrones were set up,
            And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
            His vesture was like white snow
            And the hair of His head like pure wool.
            His throne was ablaze with flames,
            Its wheels were a burning fire.

      10"A river of fire was flowing
            And coming out from before Him;
            Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
            And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
            The court sat,
            And the books were opened. Daniel 7

I believe the spiritual, universal, body of Christ is the lake of fire, "Know you not that you will judge angels?"......"Know you not that you will judge the world"

I believe these verses in Hebrews are a description of what the lake of fire represents metaphorically.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

25 See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. 26 And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven." 27 This expression, "Yet once more," denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.

Like the bronze laver at the entrance to the Holy Place, everyone must wash in this before they enter to partake of the bread of presence and the golden lampstand. We are washed in it already, by His indwelling presence. Evryone will be washed in it eventually, each in their own order.

[sheila]

James 3;8-,10.....with the tougne we bless God andcurse men..made in His similitude.  Genesis 3;14...and the Lord God said,'Because

  THOU  hast done this..you are cursed above all cattle and every beast of the field"  Romans 9;3  Numbers 5;24 and he shall cause

  the woman to drink the bitter water that causes the curse..and the water that causeth the  curse  shall enter in her and become

  bitter.  Note the priest blots out the written curses and has her to drink the bitter water    Luke 6;20-49

     the woman caught  in the act of adultery....and the woman saved through child-bearing...and the seed of the woman that

    crushes  the head of the serpent.

   Exodus 15;22-23  3 days journey after crossing Red Sea.........bitter waters of Marah. and the Lord showed him abranch,

[tree] when he had cast it in the  waters,the waters were made sweet.


     Rev 20;11-15  books opened...judgement[as we have all bore the image of the corruptible]so too,shall we all bear the image of

   the incorruptible. just as sin entered through one  manand death reigned[AND I SAW THE DEAD STANDING BEFORE THE THRONE

. Note;satan,the beast and false prophet thrown in LOF before judgement of the dead[all men died]



..BOOK OF LIFE OPENED/free gift.   all things are yours..both death and life..

...if anyones name was not written in the book of life[All things are mine...I shall raise it up at the last day]Lord of the living and dead.


         I am not debating with you...but  expounding on my reasoning from the scriptures as to my differing pov. :2c:

[eaglesway]

"......expounding on my reasoning from the scriptures as to my differing pov"  Another way to say debate LOL. But I have no problem with friendly discussion and debate.

I think there is plenty of room for discussion and interpretation as to what aionian fire, gehenna, the lake of fire, etc, are- and whether or not they are even the same thing, but Jesus clearly says that people will experience it, so I dont see any scriptures being presented that can disembowel the verses I listed where He says that. Peter, Paul, James and John also all present a view within which they clearly state that people will experience aionian fire, so my pov is that some certainly will.

I think my reason for saying that could be misinterpeted by some but-

Te idea that God will assay the people through fire in His presence does not frighten or disgust me.....

because I think aionian fire is a metaphorical description of the impenetrable light of the Almighty, like the flames is in Jesus' eyes because the eye is the light of the soul, and Jesus is filled up to all the fulness of God who is a consuming fire...

Light is fire to darkness, and "every hidden thing will be brought to light", and as Paul told the Ephesians, "But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatever does make manifest is light."

So the fire is a good thing, for us now, for some others in the ages to come. To reprove the works of darkness makes them manifest, and Jesus says, "I am He that tries the reins and the hearts."

"All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do"

He is both the ultimate reproof, manifest upon the cross as perfect love, shining from His throne as the reconciler and restorer- the Savior of all, gathering all things unto Himself "For He must reign until every enemy is made a footstool for His feet.... the last enemy to be subjected is death".

[rosered]

  Yes !!!  I can see both   ways   , in the  spiritual sense  of ''   interpretations''

  There  are  some very   ''thoughtful ''   meanings and questions answered .


I love that  :HeartThrob:

GOD Himself   being    expressed  as   a consuming  fire   also  called Spirit and Love

And if only   we could consider    this , The angel    Michael    , knew to ask the   LORD HIMSELF   for  a rebuke  against Satan

  when contending   for the body of Moses [law and ministration of death ]   as Paul called it and also called it  a good   thing .

 
I personally can only see  if God is  in  you[Christ in you ]  this same anointing[HOLY SPIRIT &FIRE ]   as well as  being flesh and blood as human beings [Adam]/mankind]   where Paul said , [no good thing dwells ]   evil , Only GOD IS GOOD as  the Lord Jesus spoke in the days of His flesh and blood as a  son of man , as very well as a  Son  of God  REVEALED  , and would very well prove a fire in the heart [LOF ] , being spiritual in nature  and interpretation     to destroy the works of the devil .[Being of GODS truth and power over all evil  ]
as BOTH   being present   at the same time , being the pattern Son    we all are to  learn of and from .
Jesus Christ   given the Spirit   without measure   , would and could prove to us all   GODS HEART OF LOVE for all mankind  by the gift of grace    poured out  upon all flesh   , just as the promises of God unfold in  the new testament  [Spirit of prophecy] Jesus Christ  witness /testimony  /LIVING WORD   to the   end ..  that even Paul expounded  upon and brought even  more  Light / knowledge of the Life in Christ and Spirit .

GOD the Holy Father  will ultimately  be all in all by HIS  PERFECT WORK  , Where all will Glory  IN  GOD,  in  the LORD  Jesus Christ   , and rejoice in HIS LOVE ,  as the WORD OF TRUTH [subject to]  Jesus Christ is His name ,  IS FULFILLED BY HIS SPIRIT  OF TRUTH .[LIFE ITSELF ]  :HeartThrob:


GODS plan of the ages ,to me , has always been  being fulfilled [eyes cannot see and ears cannot hear and heart  cannot understand by human  standards & reasoning ] and brought to life and light   by all the many , many witnesses  ,   the heavenly Zion   that expands  beyond  literal containment ...........
This   joy unspeakable and full of glory  of GOD !!!!!!!!!!!  :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :banana:

[eaglesway]

I absolutely I think the Holy Spirit and fire is Christ in you the hope of glory, and that the "glorious liberty of the children of God" is the love of God.

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from who every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, 21 to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen. Eph 3:14-21

I think the love of God is the fire of God(and vice versa), consuming everything that is not of love until God is all in all. His presence is love manifest as light, and in the scriptures we see both rivers of flame(Daniel 7:10) and rivers of living water, pouring forth from Him(Rev 2:1)- metaphors for various elements of His presence, His being "who alone dwells in unaproachable light.

I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen

No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him. John 1:18

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. Heb 1;1-3

[CHB]

I don't know, but I have often wondered if being baptized with the Holy Spirit was a symbol of the lake of fire? Jesus was baptized in a lake, or river, so is most people who are saved. John said "he that cometh after me shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and WITH FIRE". Baptism symbolizes a physical death to sin and a spiritual resurrection to life.  Isaiah says "the Lord will WASH AWAY the filth by judgment and the SPIRIT OF BURNING". Could this be a type of baptism. Maybe this is how everyone will be cleansed of their filthiness. Baptized in water.. {lake} with Holy Spirit..{fire}. Lake of fire.
Just a thought.  :dontknow: :Chinscratch:

CHB

[sheila]

baptize is wash..the lavers/molten sea was for washing the hands and feet of the ministers of God[holy things]. the LORD,Lord didn't we

class also seem a ministerial/priesthood type to me. false apostle's decietful workers,false christs as messengers[angels] of satan

is as it appears unto me.  not many should be teachers...a heavier judgement...etc. evidently the 'word' that I have spoken unto you,

  has not made them clean.not all are clean[Judas].or maybe He didn't call or choose them..but a satan transformed himself into an angel of light and brought

them forth[like prophets of Baal and of the groves] anyway..hands and feet not washed..but the whole body thrown in.Jesus denies

knowing them or having had called them unto the ministry.evidently their 'works' in His name were lyings signs/miracle's etc.

  the clue-infor me..is the being thrown out into the outer darkness[if the light in you be darkness[satan] how great is that darkness..

   and the Holy city allows no unclean etc thing access...outside are the..so the washing of His people with His word/true sayings of God

and the binding of hand and feet and breaking up the works of the devil/lier/false prophet/beasts etc are cast into the outer darkness..

   the satans hour of darkness/power..Luke 22;52 Jesus said to the" chief priests."..."officers of the temple guard"..and "elders"

.....v53...but this is your hour when darkness reigns.. Rev 17;12  authority as kings one hour along with the beast. 3 kings..are these

  the ones that do not enter anddoes not allow others to?..3 unclean spirits......

   just pondering.....


    cut off your right hand= Zech 3;1 and 2  satan standing at his right side to accuse him...is this not a branch snatched from the fire?

   and the right offending eye.....or is thy eye evil because I am good Matthew 20;15 jealousy/envy[elder son/prodigal]

     there are 7 eyes on that one stone,and I will engrave an in-scription on it...and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day

       

[jugghead]

I don't know, but I have often wondered if being baptized with the Holy Spirit was a symbol of the lake of fire? Jesus was baptized in a lake, or river, so is most people who are saved. John said "he that cometh after me shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and WITH FIRE". Baptism symbolizes a physical death to sin and a spiritual resurrection to life.  Isaiah says "the Lord will WASH AWAY the filth by judgment and the SPIRIT OF BURNING". Could this be a type of baptism. Maybe this is how everyone will be cleansed of their filthiness. Baptized in water.. {lake} with Holy Spirit..{fire}. Lake of fire.
Just a thought.  :dontknow: :Chinscratch:

CHB

Can even take that a step further ..... even people can be understood as a sea or lake ..... can the lake of fire be a people of God's Burning Spirit?

just another thought