Many are called but few are choosen

[marie glen]

The whole word testifies of the exact same thing  , what truth is ....and it is a LIVING THING among many things  for certain.

Amen Rose! Loved your post! :gsmile:

:Chinscratch: I'm wondering if ultimately, Truth isn't Him? Good, as opposed to evil, Life as opposed to death, Truth as opposed to untrue (and Perfect as opposed to imperfect..?) All Him.. Life.

[jugghead]

I need to ask one question from all of this .....

You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)

If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?

I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first

[eaglesway]

Does the chicken come first? Or the egg? LOL

[jugghead]

The chicken came first ..... are we not under the wings of the Father like a mother hen?   :banana: heh! heh!

[Cardinal]

I need to ask one question from all of this .....

You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)

If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?

I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first

I think it's that we already were chosen in Him before the world began. The Alpha was Him as the head with a body of firstfruits, and the Omega is the same Head with a body of firstfruits. He once dropped into my spirit, "You're not really learning all this, you're remembering it." My :2c: Blessings....

[eaglesway]

The chicken came first ..... are we not under the wings of the Father like a mother hen?   :banana: heh! heh!

:thumbsup:

[jugghead]

I need to ask one question from all of this .....

You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)

If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?

I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first

I think it's that we already were chosen in Him before the world began. The Alpha was Him as the head with a body of firstfruits, and the Omega is the same Head with a body of firstfruits. He once dropped into my spirit, "You're not really learning all this, you're remembering it." My :2c: Blessings....

Weren't we all (mankind) chosen in Him before the world began?

and again, the same question still arises, on what basis does God choose one before another to remember? or on what basis does God choose to reveal himself to one before another?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, but all glories are not the same. So it is with firstfruits, the offspring of the Lamb, who then go out and are used to bring others into that same glory/saviors will arise on Mt. Zion. Got to have someone to *save*. But it's ALL good, in the end, because those that come in in the 11th hour receive the same "wages" as those that were there from the first, amen? Peace

[jugghead]

If it's all the same in the end, why aren't all glories the same?

[Ross]

I need to ask one question from all of this .....

If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?

How did people get chosen/given their roles in the O.T- everything was done by lot.
Why? -so that no man could boast.

Romans 9;11-12 " For even before they were born or had done anything good or bad
                       so that God's purpose might stand according to election,
                      not because of works, but because of His call."

2 Cor 11;17,18 " But let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.
                    For it is not the one who recommends himself who is approved, but the one the Lord recommends."

[eaglesway]

Great reply Ross. After all is said and done, and God is all in all, and that which is perfect is come so evryone is walking in love, and know as they are known- all will boast in the Lord, whos ways are past finding out.

[Cardinal]

If it's all the same in the end, why aren't all glories the same?

What I meant was, there is timing and election going on. In the end, as I said, those of the 11th hour receive the same "wages". But He has always done every move of His Spirit with a firstfruits, and what He is doing now in this hour, is no different. There are two companies that are being formed; one is the bride, one is the groom, made to be one with the Head. In the last great outpouring of His Spirit, those of the groom company will go out and "woo" those of the bride company, ie. a man leaving father and mother and cleaving unto his wife.

Even the natural kingdom bears this witness, as all babies are female until a certain point in their development. This is  :2c: Blessings...

[MHz]

What does it really mean?

It mean the group that has life in the 1,000 years is a smaller group than are resurrected at judgment day. The 1,000 year crowd is a static population even after the enter new Jerusalem in the new earth as that is their home there. The ones labeled 'the rest' make their homes outside of the walls of that city. It sets up a shepherd/flock relationship and the shepherds are the smallest group.

Isa:54:1:
Sing,
O barren,
thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing,
and cry aloud,
thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife,
saith the LORD.

[eaglesway]

It could also be as simple as the rich young ruler, who was called, but not chosen. He was told, "If you would be perfect(mature, whole, a disciple) sell all that you have, give it to the poor and come, follow me." Many are called. They meet Jesus, they carry on a discourse with Him. The conversation lasts until He leads them to the thing(s) they will not leave behind. It could be money, or pride, or family or the love of knowledge(pride of the mind).....many things keep the called from being chosen for certain things-as the 12 were in the beginning.

"We have left all to follow you......Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel....

Know you not that you will judge angels?

"This I have against you, you have lost your first love. Therefore repent and do the first works lest I remove your Lampstand from its place."

I think it is also possible to be unchosen- not in terms of basic salvation, but in terms of being chosen and gifted to be placed upon that Lampstand.

[MHz]

The rich-man that would not give his riches to the poor dies of old age and he goes to sleep like everybody else and is resurrected at the start of the 1,000 year reign because they are a member of the 12 Tribes and that is their destiny. The rich-man that would not take care of the poor is referencing the money-changers that Jesus threw out of the temple twice. The rich-man in hell is a prophecy for the 12 Tribes and what happens to the ones that experience the first 6 trumps when only the 144,000 are going to see the day of the return happen without having to be resurrected.

So far Jonah and Jesus are the only two people to have been in hell and when Jesus was there it was a paradise. The odds are in favor that He woke up the Saints that were also resurrected the day He was  on His way there rather than on His way back to the land of the living. Jonah was alone.

The colors of the robe are the same as the ones Moses introduced that was the standard for High Priests. The ones that are the subject to the Matt:23 sermon would have gone to hell but that is not possible until the trumps start sound and then it runs 3 1/2 years before the 144,000 are joined to all the members that are in the grave and that goes back to Abraham's sons.

Their descendants will be the harlot in Re:17 and Satan uses her and then kills her when he is finished. The points that describe her are similar to the robes of the rich man and all of the other ones have references made by Moses with one exception and that one is the best way to connect the two as being the same one.

Re:18:7:
How much she hath glorified herself,
and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart,
I sit a queen,
and am no widow,
and shall see no sorrow.

La:1:1-3:
How doth the city sit solitary,
that was full of people! 
how is she become as a widow! 
she that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces,
how is she become tributary!
She weepeth sore in the night,
and her tears are on her cheeks:
among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her:
all her friends have dealt treacherously with her,
they are become her enemies.
Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction,
and because of great servitude:
she dwelleth among the heathen,
she findeth no rest:
all her persecutors overtook her between the straits.

Da:11:5-7:
And the king of the south shall be strong,
and one of his princes;
and he shall be strong above him,
and have dominion;
his dominion shall be a great dominion.
And in the end of years they shall join themselves together;
for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement:
but she shall not retain the power of the arm;
neither shall he stand,
nor his arm:
but she shall be given up,
and they that brought her,
and he that begat her,
and he that strengthened her in these times.
But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate,
which shall come with an army,
and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north,
and shall deal against them,
and shall prevail:

[eaglesway]

Speculative eschatology isnt the focus of Tentmaker- lets try to keep the conversation somewhere near the realm of the site title...."Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe"  :declare:

[WhiteWings]

I think it is also possible to be unchosen- not in terms of basic salvation, but in terms of being chosen and gifted to be placed upon that Lampstand.

The nation Israel was an elect nation. Fell away. Years of rejection/exile followed. My guess is that they weren't elect then.  Later they were elected again.

[MHz]

I don't mind criticism but pointing out the specifics is easier than reply to a post that just says it is wrong. That is more like a troll post in all honesty.
When there are many passages that support the same doctrine it is justified. Making a doctrine based on one verse that may not even be in context is the version that is nor allowed.

2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

2Pe:1:20:
Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

An example of the latter is to take the verse in Da:9 and determine the the 'he' mentioned is the anti-christ.

An example of the former would be to let the passage determine who the 'he' is. My version shows it is God alone that is in control of covenants. That is followed by many passages that support the notion that the 70th week came after the 69th week was finished. It began when God called John the Baptist and the cross was the mid-week event and the end of the whole week was in Acts:10 when Peter began to preach to Gentiles.

Da:9:4:
And I prayed unto the LORD my God,
and made my confession,
and said,
O Lord,
the great and dreadful God,
keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him,
and to them that keep his commandments;

Da:9:27:
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation,
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The example below is the same topic but the clarity is even better.

Re:6:1:
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals,
and I heard,
as it were the noise of thunder,
one of the four beasts saying,
Come and see.
Re:6:2:
And I saw,
and behold a white horse:
and he that sat on him had a bow;
and a crown was given unto him:
and he went forth conquering,
and to conquer.

Isa:49:2:
And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword;
in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me,
and made me a polished shaft;
in his quiver hath he hid me;

Isa:55:11:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[MHz]

The nation Israel was an elect nation. Fell away. Years of rejection/exile followed. My guess is that they weren't elect then.  Later they were elected again.

The bulk of the Christians in the NT were gathered in the nations at the start were also Jewish so they would be the gathered. The 11 original Apostles stayed in Jerusalem until 70 AD so that is who they were preaching to and it would have been the same material Paul was handing out at a variety of Synagogues. Obviously the Book of Roman is for the Gentiles and specifically the rulers of a Gentile Nation.

It becomes a nation again after the 7 vials kill all sinners in one day and the resurrection of Eze:37 is completed. They are immortal and sinless from that moment on.

[sheila]

many just follow up to a point..and do not go any farther...God alone knows the reason........what is mere speculation to some may be mental or spiritual vision to

another. the blind who could not see did not enter in.....and hindered those who would. and He said...the harlots and tax collectors enter in before you. :2c:

[MHz]

many just follow up to a point..and do not go any farther...God alone knows the reason........what is mere speculation to some may be mental or spiritual vision to

another. the blind who could not see did not enter in.....and hindered those who would. and He said...the harlots and tax collectors enter in before you. :2c:

That would certainly fit in with these verse. The 'who it applies to'  has some suggestions as supplied by other references. It can be narrowed down to the ones that go through the 3 1/2 the first 6 trumps use as a way to define tribulation as the kind that torment you and then kill you, rather than kill you and then torment you like God can and does to 1 selective group. The ones that are still sinners in the day the 7th trump sounds get extra punishment when they die because they were sinners when the two witnesses were converting sinners into believers. The 2nd reference below is as valid as it was in the times of the Gospels.

M't:25:1-13:
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps,
and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
And five of them were wise,
and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps,
and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried,
they all slumbered and slept.
And at midnight there was a cry made,
Behold,
the bridegroom cometh;
go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose,
and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise,
Give us of your oil;
for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered,
saying,
Not so; l
est there be not enough for us and you:
but go ye rather to them that sell,
and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy,
the bridegroom came;
and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut.
Afterward came also the other virgins,
saying,
Lord,
Lord,
open to us.
But he answered and said,
Verily I say unto you,
I know you not.
Watch therefore,
for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Joh:12:42:
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;
but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh:12:43:
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

1Pe:4:12-18:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that, when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Re:9:20:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship devils,
and idols of gold,
and silver,
and brass,
and stone,
and of wood:
which neither can see,
nor hear,
nor walk:
Re:9:21:
Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries,
nor of their fornication,
nor of their thefts.

The 7 letters include all Gentiles so the ones with a relationship with god that is one of the bad ones they are resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years rather than at the start of it.

[sheila]

well MHz Idivide that like this...the kingdom of heaven is like;a woman that  took a measure of leaven[grace/mercy]and hid it in 3 measures of flour until ALLwas

leavened.  God allowed the saints to be overcome that no flesh[not even the churches]boast.Nowthe kingdom ofdarkness is also likened as ameasure hid in 3measures

of flour..until the whole lump was corrupted[for God bound up all men in sin/disobedience in order to show mercy unto all.]

  Israel set aside for awhile that believing gentiles may come in. Laodecian church set aside that all may recieve mercy.


   Granted,satan/the kingdom of darkness meant it for evil..but God meant it for the good of all. SowhenIread 1/3killed..2/3 killed all the stars fell from heaven...

I use this'key'to measure[assure me]of the salvation of all..each in theirorder. :2c:

[MHz]

well MHz Idivide that like this...the kingdom of heaven is like;a woman that  took a measure of leaven[grace/mercy]and hid it in 3 measures of flour until ALLwas

leavened.  God allowed the saints to be overcome that no flesh[not even the churches]boast.Nowthe kingdom ofdarkness is also likened as ameasure hid in 3measures

of flour..until the whole lump was corrupted[for God bound up all men in sin/disobedience in order to show mercy unto all.]

  Israel set aside for awhile that believing gentiles may come in. Laodecian church set aside that all may recieve mercy.


   Granted,satan/the kingdom of darkness meant it for evil..but God meant it for the good of all. SowhenIread 1/3killed..2/3 killed all the stars fell from heaven...

I use this'key'to measure[assure me]of the salvation of all..each in theirorder. :2c:

Leaven cannot do just part of the loaf, if the start and end of the 1,000 year period are looked at then the whole loaf is affected like it should be.
The 1/3 and 2/3 is because the flock is 2 times as many many people that the shepherds, like it should be, yes?