On my travels around the net I see this often being used as a reason that so many will end up in hell.
What does it really mean?
satan and men do a lot of calling that God didn't..to teach a contrary gospel. Scriptures show...God call a man for a particular
purpose/prophet/judge...High Priest..apostle etc....satan raises up false apostle's,anti-christ,false teachers/unjust judges...and
High Priest that lead the people into err...not being able to discern the holy from the profane and failing to make atonement...
...these not called of God..are given lying signs false visions etc and being under delusion......their 'light' being darkness.....as
satan transforming himself into an angel of light....that great imitator of God.
Just as in Elijah's day...the people became confused just who was the true LORD/GOD....they had BAAL/LORD and prophets of the
groves competing against the true work of heaven God was doing through Elijah. Elijah put the false prophets to death by a literal
sword....and now the sword of the spirit[S[alvation]WORD.....coming out of His [mouth] divides such lying teachings as eternal
torment ED and many other false teachings to death[CHRIST WAGING WARFARE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS]
'we are many" legions called of satan in many forms..etc..as blind folds/traps/snares/wolves
Quote from: chester-blowfold on March 20, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
On my travels around the net I see this often being used as a reason that so many will end up in hell.
What does it really mean?
My short answer is: "Chosen for what?"
My long answer is: http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/few%20chosen,%20a%20kingdom%20come.htm (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/few%20chosen,%20a%20kingdom%20come.htm)
:2c: ps....not many of you should be teachers......a heavier judgement....he that teaches lies will be called 'the least"
.....the least of the flock will draw satan out....in the time/our day of the end time church...Laodecean overcome saints/church
as those called out of Babylon....symbolized as little Benjamin that began as a devouring wolf[when we were formerly preaching
their doctrines]and ended with sharing bounty[5 times/talents portion]. following Jesus rebuke..counsel to buy gold tried in the fire
and white garments to cover our nakedness...and eyesalve to heal our blinded eyes......in obedience we come out of her.
yep...Psalms 68;27.
little Benjamin was almost obliterated as a tribe..just as Laodecean church in danger of being spewed from Jesus mouth......
...but the securing of Brides was arranged.........Paul was a Benjamite...the least..and a persecutor of Christ's body....just like
Benjamin...Paul had to get 'caught" with the Holy Spirit DeVine cup of Joseph[symbolizing Christ] in a bag of corn........to feed and
give drink of waters of life...to preserve Israel during a famine[for hearing the true 'word of God"] Words of LIFE ABUNDANT
a magnifying of God and Christ..not a di minished weak ineffective God or defeated in His purpose........
Tentmaker is connected to Paul and Benjamin in this regard.........we've come out of Babylon and some have formerly taught
eternal torment and ED.........may THE GOD OF ALL INCREASE YOU....5 talents are yours to increase to 10...5 portions due you
little Benjamin..little flock..........He had mercy on us because we did it in ignorance.......Bless the One True God and His sons and
daughters ,all nations blessed.....He saved the best wine/cup for last/least. :2c:
:2c: another side to the coin....many called few chosen.....those who I fore-ordained I called....those I called[receive calling in this
life[ex Samuel being called ] I chose. Not many are called of our great numbers of his children in this life[sands/stars for numbers]
we are called in our order....many sleep spiritually speaking all their life down here....and when called up in their order..only then
awake and put on their glorious garments.
so...few are chosen to draw near unto Him on this side of the veil.
Quote from: sheila on March 20, 2017, 06:32:48 PM
:2c: another side to the coin....many called few chosen.....those who I fore-ordained I called....those I called[receive calling in this
life[ex Samuel being called ] I chose. Not many are called of our great numbers of his children in this life[sands/stars for numbers]
we are called in our order....many sleep spiritually speaking all their life down here....and when called up in their order..only then
awake and put on their glorious garments.
so...few are chosen to draw near unto Him on this side of the veil.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2017, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: chester-blowfold on March 20, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
On my travels around the net I see this often being used as a reason that so many will end up in hell.
What does it really mean?
My short answer is: "Chose for what?"
I think like your short answer.. and figure chosen to be saved during this brief lifetime.. and here too, I lean toward thinking of the "many" same as "As in Adam the many die" - many are called.. but few chosen (to be saved during this brief lifetime, and whatever else this is promised to entail) but those He calls, He chooses, etc.. just not all during this brief lifetime.. imo anyway :smile:
I.M.O - Many are called- all the seed planted in the same paddock
- few are chosen - the first of the harvest, especially since not all germinate and become ripe at the same time.
- then the rest are harvested in due season.
I.M.O problem with the church is that they say those not chosen will go to hell- they are not seeing the rest of mankind as being corrected in heaven at that later date as they learn the right way of doing things. Used to thing along those lines, just as Paul said he did until his correction.
Couple of little questions I never had answered before being made aware of this concept of all being saved;
Why was not Israel going around trying to convert the gentiles?
What happens to all those who died before Christ was even born in this age?
Where do those go who have never heard of Christ in this age?
Who would threaten someone to love them or else? - which is pretty much what the doctrine of hell-fire promotes!
If there is hell, why was not Adam told to repent?
If there is hell, then there will be more in hell than in heaven if we go by the current statistics.
All this is just a tip of the ice-burg for unanswered questions?
Since coming to grasp the precision of the plan which includes all man, there is more sense and logic as to a truly loving Father, and awesome saviour Jesus, who are working to a greater plan to prepare us for a future which will be above our current ability to fathom.
Eph 3;20 " NOW TO THE ONE WHO IS ABLE TO DO ABUNDANTLY BEYOND ALL WE ASK OR IMAGINE,
ACCORDING TO THE POWER THAT IS WORKING WITHIN US."
Jesus never said chosen for 'eternal life'...hellists are wrong to presume He was referring to 'eternal life'.
Good questions Chester. Israel was supposed to be a Lampstand. They were to show the justice, mercy and fear of God to the world, and they did, in a veiled example of both extremes(serving God and rebelling against Him) in different periods.
Now we are "the light of the world", the "lamp on the lampstand", the "city set on a hill". We have been entrusted with the "word of reconciliation". This is the reason Paul, in Romans 8 says,
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Quote from: Ross on March 21, 2017, 01:51:57 AM
I.M.O - Many are called- all the seed planted in the same paddock
- few are chosen - the first of the harvest, especially since not all germinate and become ripe at the same time.
- then the rest are harvested in due season.
:faint: Amen! that's perfect!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Ross on March 21, 2017, 02:08:53 AM
All this is just a tip of the ice-burg for unanswered questions?
Since coming to grasp the precision of the plan which includes all man, there is more sense and logic as to a truly loving Father, and awesome saviour Jesus, who are working to a greater plan to prepare us for a future which will be above our current ability to fathom.
..A-men!! "So much more sense and logic.."!! ..I mean do 'they' never consider His 100% pristine character? And His
attributes?
:doh: As a delusion - it's literally crazy!
:dsunny:
Quote from: darryl on March 21, 2017, 07:26:25 AM
Jesus never said chosen for 'eternal life'...hellists are wrong to presume He was referring to 'eternal life'.
I never thought of it that way... But the more I think about it.. the more true I realize it is..! He never said "chosen for eternal life".. Like if a king called citizens.. a crowd, but then chose some for whatever undertaking he had in mind.. does he execute the others? (Well, some might, but that brings us back to "character"! What an insult the whole theory is!)
p.s. - "the creation set free.." what a thought that is! Nature/creation is SO beautiful now... ? :Chinscratch: wow..!
The rich young ruler was called, but he was not chosen.
As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 You know the commandments, 'Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
Jesus called him to become a disciple. To be chosen to walk with Him. The rich young ruler could not pay the price. This does not mean he therefore "went to hell forever".
There are many people who lack one thing or another,a love for something that keeps them from being "chosen" to walk among those unto whom Jesus has given the "keys to the kingdom of heaven".
They believe, but they cannot follow because something ties them to this world. They are forgiven, because "If we are faithless He is faithful still".
As has already been pointed out, nowhere does it say, "or else you will go to hell forever.
"This one
Quote from: sheila on March 20, 2017, 04:38:49 PM
satan and men do a lot of calling that God didn't..to teach a contrary gospel. Scriptures show...God call a man for a particular
purpose/prophet/judge...High Priest..apostle etc....satan raises up false apostle's,anti-christ,false teachers/unjust judges...and
High Priest that lead the people into err...not being able to discern the holy from the profane and failing to make atonement...
...these not called of God..are given lying signs false visions etc and being under delusion......their 'light' being darkness.....as
satan transforming himself into an angel of light....that great imitator of God.
Just as in Elijah's day...the people became confused just who was the true LORD/GOD....they had BAAL/LORD and prophets of the
groves competing against the true work of heaven God was doing through Elijah. Elijah put the false prophets to death by a literal
sword....and now the sword of the spirit[S[alvation]WORD.....coming out of His [mouth] divides such lying teachings as eternal
torment ED and many other false teachings to death[CHRIST WAGING WARFARE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS]
'we are many" legions called of satan in many forms..etc..as blind folds/traps/snares/wolves
Good post, thank you Sheila
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2017, 05:01:00 PM
My short answer is: "Chosen for what?"
:iagree:
Quote from: eaglesway on March 22, 2017, 01:09:00 AM
The rich young ruler was called, but he was not chosen.
As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 You know the commandments, 'Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
Jesus called him to become a disciple. To be chosen to walk with Him. The rich young ruler could not pay the price. This does not mean he therefore "went to hell forever".
There are many people who lack one thing or another,a love for something that keeps them from being "chosen" to walk among those unto whom Jesus has given the "keys to the kingdom of heaven".
They believe, but they cannot follow because something ties them to this world. They are forgiven, because "If we are faithless He is faithful still".
As has already been pointed out, nowhere does it say, "or else you will go to hell forever.
"This one
good point !..Jesus NEVER said "or else you will go to hell forever." This is remarkable in itself and on its own is enough to convince that the Bible does not teach everlasting unending punishment.
The One who spoke the words called and chosen was Jesus Christ in the parables. Only He spoke those words.
Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
He spoke these words to the people of the nation of Israel. It was intended for their ears. It was not addressed to the Gentiles (the uncircumcised).
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Similarly the 12 Apostles preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the tribes of Israel, the circumcised in the nation and those of the dispersion scattered abroad. Their Gospel message was not for the Nations (Gentiles)
Time and again the Apostles preached the resurrected Christ but the majority did not believe. They heard (heard the call) but rejected the message and the leaders sought to kill the Apostles, just as they tried to kill Jesus and finally succeeded. They had ears to hear but could not perceive the truth.
The few who believed and recognized Christ as Savoir are the chosen, the Elect.
all mankind is due to be spiritual Israel...raised up in Christ...each in his order.God is no respector of persons. Israel was to be a
blessing unto the gentiles. They were blinded .....until the gentiles come in....gentile dogs/goy,this attitude...and exclusivity is not
conducive to 'Blessing"them. God made of one man all nations. Who is more lost then those who think they have self-righteousness
under the law covenant.?it wasn't called the ministry of death for nothing.. :2c:
Quote from: joeteekay on March 23, 2017, 02:28:59 AM
The One who spoke the words called and chosen was Jesus Christ in the parables. Only He spoke those words.
Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
He spoke these words to the people of the nation of Israel. It was intended for their ears. It was not addressed to the Gentiles (the uncircumcised).
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Similarly the 12 Apostles preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the tribes of Israel, the circumcised in the nation and those of the dispersion scattered abroad. Their Gospel message was not for the Nations (Gentiles)
Time and again the Apostles preached the resurrected Christ but the majority did not believe. They heard (heard the call) but rejected the message and the leaders sought to kill the Apostles, just as they tried to kill Jesus and finally succeeded. They had ears to hear but could not perceive the truth.
The few who believed and recognized Christ as Savoir are the chosen, the Elect.
Amen! I agree.
CHB
Quote from: joeteekay on March 23, 2017, 02:28:59 AM
The One who spoke the words called and chosen was Jesus Christ in the parables. Only He spoke those words.
Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
He spoke these words to the people of the nation of Israel. It was intended for their ears. It was not addressed to the Gentiles (the uncircumcised).
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Similarly the 12 Apostles preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the tribes of Israel, the circumcised in the nation and those of the dispersion scattered abroad. Their Gospel message was not for the Nations (Gentiles)
Time and again the Apostles preached the resurrected Christ but the majority did not believe. They heard (heard the call) but rejected the message and the leaders sought to kill the Apostles, just as they tried to kill Jesus and finally succeeded. They had ears to hear but could not perceive the truth.
The few who believed and recognized Christ as Savoir are the chosen, the Elect.
:thumbsup: :dsunny:
Quote from: sheila on March 23, 2017, 05:03:32 AM
all mankind is due to be spiritual Israel...raised up in Christ...each in his order.God is no respector of persons. Israel was to be a
blessing unto the gentiles. They were blinded .....until the gentiles come in....gentile dogs/goy,this attitude...and exclusivity is not
conducive to 'Blessing"them. God made of one man all nations. Who is more lost then those who think they have self-righteousness
under the law covenant.?it wasn't called the ministry of death for nothing.. :2c:
..Amen.. and what will it be when they are gathered back in - if gentiles are grafted in, how much more the natural Israel.. "will be life from the dead" - resurrection, which is His return! "You will not see me again Israel" Jesus said, "until you say `blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD`."
In Christ there is neither Hebrew nor Greek.. male nor female.. bond or slave.. but all one in Christ Jesus."
Revelation chapter 7 a great crowd in front of God's throne (metaphor for Spirit of praise poured out)
144,000 from Israel, and a crowd
not able to be numbered, from every tribe, nation and tongue.. called, justified/purified, 'chosen', to believe/follow/be saved during this life.
What all that will come to mean.. One way or the other, we will see.. :gsmile:
The Hebrew word 'call' קרא is used first in Ge 1:5 "and God called the light Day".
It means 'gave name to'. It also means proclaim, guest, invited, befall and partridge (probably because it calls). It also means separated א from the cold קר.
And it speaks of God revealing himself to all men when read letter by letter: The death and resurrection of the Son of God ק revealed ר b the creation א. See Roman 1:18 ff in that all men know him through the things that have been made. It also means vomit קא the revelation ר. Though all men know God, they do not acknowledge him as God nor give him thanks.
This verse refers to God separating people: Moses from Korah and his gang:
Nu 16:5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
The word is bachar בחר which is in ב life/understanding ח revealed ר. Or the son בר with understanding in his heart ח. In ב the hole חר (I have no clue on this one yet). The first two indicate an acceptance of teh revelation.
So all men are called. God reveals himself to all men who reject his call. But some are chosen to be 'types of Christ' as testimonies to the rest. This does not speak to future conditions, but within the world.
Israel was chosen to be God's witnesses. The church is chosen to be His witnesses. Prophets were chosen to be unique figures as witnesses, etc.
Agreed. For instance, Jesus tells the Ephesian church, in Revelations, "Except you repent I will remove your lampstand from its place", the right to be the "city set on a hill" and bear the "ark of testimony"- similar to when the "glory of the Lord departed" from the temple due to Israel rejecting YHWH and seeking the gods of the nations.
I have enjoyed all these wonderful answers to a really good question !
I love the Tentmaker site for this reason , God has blessed it so wonderfully over many many years .
I recall the excitement of learning , a spark and a flame lit up inside me , like a little child so hungry for the truth and a million questions , Please Lord what does this mean ? what does that mean Lord ?
I remember asking the Holy Spirit to teach me '' the truth ''.
so I will only add this little bit to why the bible has proven with other scriptures the answer to ''the many called and few chosen '' question and how it helped me on a personal quest back in the day and never forgot it to this day.
I do agree with everyone answers and sharing them is such a blessing and beautiful truth and a living thing ...
God has always provided the truth in the Spirit of Christ , ''this anointing '' and standard by the faithful few each in an order in time and place and never without a standard, WORD that judges and divides the left[ broad path/of death ] from the right[narrow path/life] ... in Hebrews 11 , proves the world rejected the Spirit of truth '' Christ'' in the beginning and those partaking in the same sufferings of Christ set already in motion .
being hated of the world , but beloved of God and most precious , and the same question answered also was the precious in the sight of the Lord are the death of His saints [ holy ones ] these were proof the world was not worthy of them /HIM /CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Word of truth and Spirit of Truth sent BY GOD making HIS WORD A CONSTANT EVER FLOWING CONTINUAL TRUTH FOR ALL TIME BY HIS OWN SPIRIT IN THEM /HIM ALWAYS ..
1 John 4:1-6
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God;
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
4You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us.
By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
The whole word testifies of the exact same thing , what truth is ....and it is a LIVING THING among many things for certain.
Quote from: Ross on March 21, 2017, 01:51:57 AM
I.M.O - Many are called- all the seed planted in the same paddock
- few are chosen - the first of the harvest, especially since not all germinate and become ripe at the same time.
- then the rest are harvested in due season.
:banana: :dsunny: wow, I really like that! So down to earth! And rings true! :thumbsup:
It's evening, but your post made me feel like I could feel sunshine.. (maybe 2 or 3 weeks of yard work has gone to my head. :laughing7: )
Quote from: Pig on May 15, 2017, 06:17:42 AM
Israel was chosen to be God's witnesses. The church is chosen to be His witnesses. Prophets were chosen to be unique figures as witnesses, etc.
:faint: Thanks! That makes a lot of sense! I've always thought of it as many others do also I see, as chosen to come to the faith during this lifetime.. and to serve, but I hadn't really thought about it I guess :Chinscratch:
Quote from: rosered on May 18, 2017, 12:28:25 PM
The whole word testifies of the exact same thing , what truth is ....and it is a LIVING THING among many things for certain.
Amen Rose! Loved your post! :gsmile:
:Chinscratch: I'm wondering if ultimately, Truth isn't Him? Good, as opposed to evil, Life as opposed to death, Truth as opposed to untrue (and Perfect as opposed to imperfect..?) All Him.. Life.
I need to ask one question from all of this .....
You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)
If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?
I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first
Does the chicken come first? Or the egg? LOL
The chicken came first ..... are we not under the wings of the Father like a mother hen? :banana: heh! heh!
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2017, 11:01:16 PM
I need to ask one question from all of this .....
You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)
If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?
I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first
I think it's that we already were chosen in Him before the world began. The Alpha was Him as the head with a body of firstfruits, and the Omega is the same Head with a body of firstfruits. He once dropped into my spirit, "You're not really learning all this, you're remembering it." My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2017, 11:57:08 PM
The chicken came first ..... are we not under the wings of the Father like a mother hen? :banana: heh! heh!
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Cardinal on May 20, 2017, 04:33:54 AM
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2017, 11:01:16 PM
I need to ask one question from all of this .....
You all know that by what I understand, God does not chose one OVER another (which is what I believe to be the understanding of the world) but He chooses one BEFORE another (each in their own time)
If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?
I have an idea, but would like to hear from others first
I think it's that we already were chosen in Him before the world began. The Alpha was Him as the head with a body of firstfruits, and the Omega is the same Head with a body of firstfruits. He once dropped into my spirit, "You're not really learning all this, you're remembering it." My :2c: Blessings....
Weren't we all (mankind) chosen in Him before the world began?
and again, the same question still arises, on what basis does God choose one before another to remember? or on what basis does God choose to reveal himself to one before another?
:cloud9: Yes, but all glories are not the same. So it is with firstfruits, the offspring of the Lamb, who then go out and are used to bring others into that same glory/saviors will arise on Mt. Zion. Got to have someone to *save*. But it's ALL good, in the end, because those that come in in the 11th hour receive the same "wages" as those that were there from the first, amen? Peace
If it's all the same in the end, why aren't all glories the same?
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2017, 11:01:16 PM
I need to ask one question from all of this .....
If all are called but only few are chosen ..... on what basis does God chose one before another?
How did people get chosen/given their roles in the O.T- everything was done by lot.
Why? -so that no man could boast.
Romans 9;11-12 " For even before they were born or had done anything good or bad
so that God's purpose might stand according to election,
not because of works, but because of His call."
2 Cor 11;17,18 " But let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.
For it is not the one who recommends himself who is approved, but the one the Lord recommends."
Great reply Ross. After all is said and done, and God is all in all, and that which is perfect is come so evryone is walking in love, and know as they are known- all will boast in the Lord, whos ways are past finding out.
Quote from: jugghead on May 21, 2017, 12:28:53 AM
If it's all the same in the end, why aren't all glories the same?
What I meant was, there is timing and election going on. In the end, as I said, those of the 11th hour receive the same "wages". But He has always done every move of His Spirit with a firstfruits, and what He is doing now in this hour, is no different. There are two companies that are being formed; one is the bride, one is the groom, made to be one with the Head. In the last great outpouring of His Spirit, those of the groom company will go out and "woo" those of the bride company, ie. a man leaving father and mother and cleaving unto his wife.
Even the natural kingdom bears this witness, as all babies are female until a certain point in their development. This is :2c: Blessings...
Quote from: chester-blowfold on March 20, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
What does it really mean?
It mean the group that has life in the 1,000 years is a smaller group than are resurrected at judgment day. The 1,000 year crowd is a static population even after the enter new Jerusalem in the new earth as that is their home there. The ones labeled 'the rest' make their homes outside of the walls of that city. It sets up a shepherd/flock relationship and the shepherds are the smallest group.
Isa:54:1:
Sing,
O barren,
thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing,
and cry aloud,
thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
It could also be as simple as the rich young ruler, who was called, but not chosen. He was told, "If you would be perfect(mature, whole, a disciple) sell all that you have, give it to the poor and come, follow me." Many are called. They meet Jesus, they carry on a discourse with Him. The conversation lasts until He leads them to the thing(s) they will not leave behind. It could be money, or pride, or family or the love of knowledge(pride of the mind).....many things keep the called from being chosen for certain things-as the 12 were in the beginning.
"We have left all to follow you......Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel....
Know you not that you will judge angels?
"This I have against you, you have lost your first love. Therefore repent and do the first works lest I remove your Lampstand from its place."
I think it is also possible to be unchosen- not in terms of basic salvation, but in terms of being chosen and gifted to be placed upon that Lampstand.
The rich-man that would not give his riches to the poor dies of old age and he goes to sleep like everybody else and is resurrected at the start of the 1,000 year reign because they are a member of the 12 Tribes and that is their destiny. The rich-man that would not take care of the poor is referencing the money-changers that Jesus threw out of the temple twice. The rich-man in hell is a prophecy for the 12 Tribes and what happens to the ones that experience the first 6 trumps when only the 144,000 are going to see the day of the return happen without having to be resurrected.
So far Jonah and Jesus are the only two people to have been in hell and when Jesus was there it was a paradise. The odds are in favor that He woke up the Saints that were also resurrected the day He was on His way there rather than on His way back to the land of the living. Jonah was alone.
The colors of the robe are the same as the ones Moses introduced that was the standard for High Priests. The ones that are the subject to the Matt:23 sermon would have gone to hell but that is not possible until the trumps start sound and then it runs 3 1/2 years before the 144,000 are joined to all the members that are in the grave and that goes back to Abraham's sons.
Their descendants will be the harlot in Re:17 and Satan uses her and then kills her when he is finished. The points that describe her are similar to the robes of the rich man and all of the other ones have references made by Moses with one exception and that one is the best way to connect the two as being the same one.
Re:18:7:
How much she hath glorified herself,
and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart,
I sit a queen,
and am no widow,
and shall see no sorrow.
La:1:1-3:
How doth the city sit solitary,
that was full of people!
how is she become as a widow!
she that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces,
how is she become tributary!
She weepeth sore in the night,
and her tears are on her cheeks:
among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her:
all her friends have dealt treacherously with her,
they are become her enemies.
Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction,
and because of great servitude:
she dwelleth among the heathen,
she findeth no rest:
all her persecutors overtook her between the straits.
Da:11:5-7:
And the king of the south shall be strong,
and one of his princes;
and he shall be strong above him,
and have dominion;
his dominion shall be a great dominion.
And in the end of years they shall join themselves together;
for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement:
but she shall not retain the power of the arm;
neither shall he stand,
nor his arm:
but she shall be given up,
and they that brought her,
and he that begat her,
and he that strengthened her in these times.
But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate,
which shall come with an army,
and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north,
and shall deal against them,
and shall prevail:
Speculative eschatology isnt the focus of Tentmaker- lets try to keep the conversation somewhere near the realm of the site title...."Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe" :declare:
Quote from: eaglesway on February 19, 2018, 11:32:35 AM
I think it is also possible to be unchosen- not in terms of basic salvation, but in terms of being chosen and gifted to be placed upon that Lampstand.
The nation Israel was an elect nation. Fell away. Years of rejection/exile followed. My guess is that they weren't elect then. Later they were elected again.
I don't mind criticism but pointing out the specifics is easier than reply to a post that just says it is wrong. That is more like a troll post in all honesty.
When there are many passages that support the same doctrine it is justified. Making a doctrine based on one verse that may not even be in context is the version that is nor allowed.
2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
2Pe:1:20:
Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
An example of the latter is to take the verse in Da:9 and determine the the 'he' mentioned is the anti-christ.
An example of the former would be to let the passage determine who the 'he' is. My version shows it is God alone that is in control of covenants. That is followed by many passages that support the notion that the 70th week came after the 69th week was finished. It began when God called John the Baptist and the cross was the mid-week event and the end of the whole week was in Acts:10 when Peter began to preach to Gentiles.
Da:9:4:
And I prayed unto the LORD my God,
and made my confession,
and said,
O Lord,
the great and dreadful God,
keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him,
and to them that keep his commandments;
Da:9:27:
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation,
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The example below is the same topic but the clarity is even better.
Re:6:1:
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals,
and I heard,
as it were the noise of thunder,
one of the four beasts saying,
Come and see.
Re:6:2:
And I saw,
and behold a white horse:
and he that sat on him had a bow;
and a crown was given unto him:
and he went forth conquering,
and to conquer.
Isa:49:2:
And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword;
in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me,
and made me a polished shaft;
in his quiver hath he hid me;
Isa:55:11:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 19, 2018, 06:40:24 PM
The nation Israel was an elect nation. Fell away. Years of rejection/exile followed. My guess is that they weren't elect then. Later they were elected again.
The bulk of the Christians in the NT were gathered in the nations at the start were also Jewish so they would be the gathered. The 11 original Apostles stayed in Jerusalem until 70 AD so that is who they were preaching to and it would have been the same material Paul was handing out at a variety of Synagogues. Obviously the Book of Roman is for the Gentiles and specifically the rulers of a Gentile Nation.
It becomes a nation again after the 7 vials kill all sinners in one day and the resurrection of Eze:37 is completed. They are immortal and sinless from that moment on.
many just follow up to a point..and do not go any farther...God alone knows the reason........what is mere speculation to some may be mental or spiritual vision to
another. the blind who could not see did not enter in.....and hindered those who would. and He said...the harlots and tax collectors enter in before you. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on February 19, 2018, 07:02:21 PM
many just follow up to a point..and do not go any farther...God alone knows the reason........what is mere speculation to some may be mental or spiritual vision to
another. the blind who could not see did not enter in.....and hindered those who would. and He said...the harlots and tax collectors enter in before you. :2c:
That would certainly fit in with these verse. The 'who it applies to' has some suggestions as supplied by other references. It can be narrowed down to the ones that go through the 3 1/2 the first 6 trumps use as a way to define tribulation as the kind that torment you and then kill you, rather than kill you and then torment you like God can and does to 1 selective group. The ones that are still sinners in the day the 7th trump sounds get extra punishment when they die because they were sinners when the two witnesses were converting sinners into believers. The 2nd reference below is as valid as it was in the times of the Gospels.
M't:25:1-13:
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps,
and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
And five of them were wise,
and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps,
and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried,
they all slumbered and slept.
And at midnight there was a cry made,
Behold,
the bridegroom cometh;
go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose,
and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise,
Give us of your oil;
for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered,
saying,
Not so; l
est there be not enough for us and you:
but go ye rather to them that sell,
and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy,
the bridegroom came;
and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut.
Afterward came also the other virgins,
saying,
Lord,
Lord,
open to us.
But he answered and said,
Verily I say unto you,
I know you not.
Watch therefore,
for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Joh:12:42:
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;
but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh:12:43:
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
1Pe:4:12-18:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that, when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Re:9:20:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship devils,
and idols of gold,
and silver,
and brass,
and stone,
and of wood:
which neither can see,
nor hear,
nor walk:
Re:9:21:
Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries,
nor of their fornication,
nor of their thefts.
The 7 letters include all Gentiles so the ones with a relationship with god that is one of the bad ones they are resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years rather than at the start of it.
well MHz Idivide that like this...the kingdom of heaven is like;a woman that took a measure of leaven[grace/mercy]and hid it in 3 measures of flour until ALLwas
leavened. God allowed the saints to be overcome that no flesh[not even the churches]boast.Nowthe kingdom ofdarkness is also likened as ameasure hid in 3measures
of flour..until the whole lump was corrupted[for God bound up all men in sin/disobedience in order to show mercy unto all.]
Israel set aside for awhile that believing gentiles may come in. Laodecian church set aside that all may recieve mercy.
Granted,satan/the kingdom of darkness meant it for evil..but God meant it for the good of all. SowhenIread 1/3killed..2/3 killed all the stars fell from heaven...
I use this'key'to measure[assure me]of the salvation of all..each in theirorder. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on February 20, 2018, 08:24:54 PM
well MHz Idivide that like this...the kingdom of heaven is like;a woman that took a measure of leaven[grace/mercy]and hid it in 3 measures of flour until ALLwas
leavened. God allowed the saints to be overcome that no flesh[not even the churches]boast.Nowthe kingdom ofdarkness is also likened as ameasure hid in 3measures
of flour..until the whole lump was corrupted[for God bound up all men in sin/disobedience in order to show mercy unto all.]
Israel set aside for awhile that believing gentiles may come in. Laodecian church set aside that all may recieve mercy.
Granted,satan/the kingdom of darkness meant it for evil..but God meant it for the good of all. SowhenIread 1/3killed..2/3 killed all the stars fell from heaven...
I use this'key'to measure[assure me]of the salvation of all..each in theirorder. :2c:
Leaven cannot do just part of the loaf, if the start and end of the 1,000 year period are looked at then the whole loaf is affected like it should be.
The 1/3 and 2/3 is because the flock is 2 times as many many people that the shepherds, like it should be, yes?