Romans 8:20

[jugghead]

     This morning as I thought about it, the Lord showed me somethings that brought me to tears, the Spirit of the Word in some verses. The main one was Romans 8:20, which He had brought to mind a few days earlier with being subjected in hope. As I started to dig into this verse, I saw that some of the words in the KJV would have been better left to their original meaning rather than translated into a different word; the word "hope" is such a word.

     What the Lord showed me in the word "hope" is how most people view it; they hope something would happen, which I see as the same as the word "wish". They hope (wish) it would happen but there is the possibility that it might not. This is putting doubt in the mind of someone who is young in the word. To me, this is a grey cloud that blocks out the true interpretation (light) of it. With this word "hope", its original meaning is: to anticipate, usually with pleasure – expectation or confidence. How can anyone "anticipate" something with pleasure if there is any shred of doubt? And with the other words also: how can anyone have an "expectation" with pleasure if there is doubt that it might not happen; and how can anyone have "confidence" with pleasure if there is doubt?

     Coming to understand why the word "expectation" is a better word to be used than the word "hope" removes any doubt that it will happen. If God says it is going to happen, it is going to happen; this is how I believe we are to read the second half of this verse. Instead of "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope," (Romans 8:20), we should read, "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in expectation." We know that the word "hope" here does not pertain to God, if the pronoun "him" is a reference to Him, and that is because God should not have to hope for anything to be accomplished, because He is the one accomplishing it and it will be accomplished.

     Let's take a look at the first part of this verse with the word "vanity". The original meaning to this word "vanity" is inutility; which means uselessness. So with that being said, I believe we should read this verse as "For the creature was made subject to inutility (uselessness), not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in expectation."

     Understanding this verse in this context is to see that the creature was subjected to uselessness (in vanity) for a purpose and that the purpose would be revealed (in expectation) at a later point and that the creature should expect it happen, not just hope or wish it will happen.

     What I believe Paul was talking about and what he understood completely was that under the old covenant of law the works of the flesh would become useless but under the new covenant of grace, the flesh would become useful in that it would be the means (the vessel) that would reveal to the world the love He has for mankind and what I mean by that is, the flesh becomes useful in doing things for others when they are asked, and even better if things are done without even being asked, you just see a need to be fulfilled and you do it because that is who you are being made into, the image of God, after their likeness full of truth and grace. We forgive others the way He forgives us, we have compassion towards others in the way He has compassion towards us, we love others the way He loves us.

     Hope can fade away over time, but expectation can stay with you even up to your death, because you may not be here in your physical body to see it but you know and expect it happen in future generations, and by that this is what I believe is meant by "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith (being convinced) received not the promise" (Hebrews 11:39). They were convinced of the promise by God.

     To the children of God who are being made into their image (the Father and the Son), after their likeness (their Spirit), we do not have to see something happen in order to believe it is going to happen, that is the way of the world (I'll believe it when I see it) we believe it is going to happen because we have been convinced by God that it is going to happen, whether in this age (our lifetime) or the age to come (future generations). Abraham is the father of faith because he was convinced by God that Christ would come, despite the fact that he did not see Him with his own physical eyes like the disciples, but he knew a future generation would and the disciples did.

     What is now being revealed to the world in larger numbers is Universal Reconciliation (UR), we may not see it be completed in our lifetime with all of mankind, but we know it is going to happen because our heavenly Father has convinced us through Christ and His Spirit testifies with our spirit that it is going to happen, we believe it and that is why we can have a peace beyond the understanding of men.

[Ross]

 
Coming to understand why the word "expectation" is a better word to be used than the word "hope" removes any doubt that it will happen.

:thumbsup: :dsunny: Pretty glorious really- explains the whole process of what is going on and why.

To the children of God who are being made into their image (the Father and the Son), after their likeness (their Spirit), we do not have to see something happen in order to believe it is going to happen, that is the way of the world (I'll believe it when I see it) we believe it is going to happen because we have been convinced by God that it is going to happen, whether in this age (our lifetime) or the age to come (future generations).
   

This gives the peace which goes beyond the ability of the flesh to comprehend.

[marie glen]

Amen! everything subjected to imperfection - He being Perfection (mt 5) -- And anything imperfect (ultimately) is useless! "vain" :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think that's where the whole e.t. mindset loses its way.. imagining that anything less than HE being in (utter) complete control with full "expectation" as you pointed out, the original language says, of all things going according to His will, especially.. the 'end' product! To doubt His ability to accomplish anything is ridiculous. "Who will pray for our little sister who has no fruit?" Eccles. "The lamp of the body is the eye.. if the eye be single, the body will be full of light. But if the light be darkness, the body will be full of darkness." Yet there are (surely!) true followers and lovers of the Lord in that body.. perhaps more and more of them are coming out..

I really like how the Amplified Bible says Romans 8, especially,

6 Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
7 [That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot.
8 So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
9 But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
10 But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you].
11 And if the Spirit of Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, [then] He Who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also restore to life your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies through His Spirit Who dwells in you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8&version=YLT;AMPC;KJV;NKJV;GNT

     Hope can fade away over time, but expectation can stay with you even up to your death, because you may not be here in your physical body to see it but you know and expect it happen in future generations, and by that this is what I believe is meant by "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith (being convinced) received not the promise" (Hebrews 11:39). They were convinced of the promise by God.

     To the children of God who are being made into their image (the Father and the Son), after their likeness (their Spirit), we do not have to see something happen in order to believe it is going to happen, that is the way of the world (I'll believe it when I see it) we believe it is going to happen because we have been convinced by God that it is going to happen, whether in this age (our lifetime) or the age to come (future generations). Abraham is the father of faith because he was convinced by God that Christ would come, despite the fact that he did not see Him with his own physical eyes like the disciples, but he knew a future generation would and the disciples did.

     What is now being revealed to the world in larger numbers is Universal Reconciliation (UR), we may not see it be completed in our lifetime with all of mankind, but we know it is going to happen because our heavenly Father has convinced us through Christ and His Spirit testifies with our spirit that it is going to happen, we believe it and that is why we can have a peace beyond the understanding of men.

Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

   .....a process of being washed with the water of the word.. renewed in the spirit of our mind.. so we can be vessels meet for the master's use.. able to rightly divide true from untrue, so we don't be blind guides.. Who will be that servant found of Him providing meat for the household in due season?-mt 24

For those coming out of e.t. (the e.t. delusion, one of many on planet earth :laughing7: ) a steady, solid, clear u.r. gospel.. easily understood and backed up by every various detail and every parable in the Bible.. All things being a parable of the one Good News! But of itself a simple, easy to perceive and understand message! (He is so perfectly wise!)

We can live this message (good news) in our life with nonbelievers also.. 'unbelievers' are very accepting of the u.r. message, if it's shared as a moving of the Spirit (and not of works).. Especially if we get to repeat it to them a few times.. I think if we know the promise (the word) of God very well, if we abide in His word, He provides us many little seeds to scatter.. And our own expectation, faith and trust becomes ever more solid. And we recognize u.r. more and more in His word.. which makes us abide in His Word more.. (abiding on the vine, with our daily bread and new wine :HeartThrob: )

He is the worker. It is all a work in us which He does. We merely abide on the vine.. resting in Him, He is our sabbath, the fruit of the spirit is love.. if you abide in me and my word abide in you, you shall ask whatsoever you will and you will have it.. we shall be like Him..
..do not the gentiles do the same? (love their own) but you be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect.. holding no grudge, no malice.. forgiving others their trespasses.. you are the salt of the world.. is a lamp put under a table?
  :Peace2: "Romans 8:20" An inspiring post! :gimmefive: right on!

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

We were saved in hope(expectation as you pointed out) and hope makes not ashamed. God's hope is a sure view from beyond the veil- nothing like a winsome human hope against doubt, but rather like this

In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

With a view to that which God is administering through the ages, "who causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will".... through the kind intention He purposed in Jesus...

"For he will transform the body of our humiliation into the image of his glorious body, according to his great power by which everything has been made subject to him."

Phil 3:21 is a great conjunction between Romans 8 and 1 Cor 15

For when all things are subject unto Him He will return all things to the Father so that God may be all in all.

[Seth]

 :dsunny: