Traditionalist websites

[Cristina100]

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

[jugghead]

You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all

[GodIsLove]

Cristina, do you now believe in Christian UR?

It is hard to read or listen to hellfire believers but I try my best to love them and understand that they are trying their best to follow what they think God wants (most of them anyway) and they will eventually be corrected.

It's hard though. It slanders God's image and makes Him out to be heartless, that we have a few years on earth which is a fallen sinful and confusing place, and we are supposed to find and believe in Jesus in all this muck OR ELSE we will burn for eternity. How unfair. The cards are stacked against us, many are raised Muslim, Catholic, atheist, Buddhist, many people have to live through trauma, starvation, war, abuse...just to continue to be tortured for eternity for not believing the right things.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

It is best to pray that Lord Jesus opens their eyes like he did with us and have faith that in due time their eyes will be opened.

[Patinak]

Great posts y'all!

[Cristina100]

I watched this video on youtube by Jacklyn Glenn a former christian titled Jesus or Hell.She then says that it is good that the universalist remained open minded but there is a lot of things in the bible that contradict that.

[Lazarus Short]

The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.

[micah7:9]

 :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.

:dsunny: :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.

Amen!!  :thumbsup: :dsunny:

Great posts y'all!

:iagree:

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

     Me too!! :faint:

[SarahR37]

So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!

[rosered]

You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all

  AMEN 

Thinking along the same lines   Jugg   :dsunny: By GODS GRACE AND TRUTH .

    Two bodies     , one body of death [EARTH  OF  ADAM,  TORMENT ]    and the other body  made alive in CHRIST SPIRIT [  LIFE AND PEACE]

one was always   carnal and beastly  and inherited the things of the earth  being corruption and  death was its inheritance     

    1"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time....    they were  given in their minds to hate the whore and burn her flesh with fire also

The Victory of the Lamb
...15And he said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

16"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 17"For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled....

Ezekiel 16:37
therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked.

Ezekiel 16:39
Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked.

Revelation 12:3
Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Revelation 17:12
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

Revelation 18:8
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

Revelation 18:17
In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off.

Revelation 18:19
They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!'

Revelation 19:18
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small."
I do believe it is when we see the   evil of religion   , that hold it has on  many peoples  .   our own carnal nature hates   naturally  and without the love of God   working in them by the Holy Spirit   the  divisions is  insane and has been for centuries  and centuries    all this  slaying and death over ''religion ''

   Paul even said    , If I give my body to be  burned and have not LOVE  OF THE SPIRIT  it is pointless ..

  Love
...2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

We can see this   all happening    in many countries   ,  Even Hitler was one among the crowds   though history as a king of the earth and beast   , carnally  to destroy     HER

Yet it is  not  a general thinking     of what we see happening   right now even over the muslim  conflicts of wars and dying  in their faith   all of them   

  carnally thinking or not  , GOD HIMSELF has made the divisions long ago  by HIS   OWN two edged SWORD / WORD   and the SPIRIT  OF TRUTH will carry it out to the end    and  given over to the burning fire      in the earth  , GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE  , none of this has ever   changed  , BY HIS WORD all of us are being  judged

beastly natured  to  being spiritual natured  and what   must die    within us all    and   what remains is  LIFE .  That was always    ALL His in the first place  to do as HE pleases .....

For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all ..

[GodIsLove]

Rose said "For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all .."

YES the more I learn about God and the closer I grow to Him I am realizing this more and more. Working toward trusting, praying, and loving Him and all of His creation.

[rosered]

Rose said "For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all .."

YES the more I learn about God and the closer I grow to Him I am realizing this more and more. Working toward trusting, praying, and loving Him and all of His creation.

  I am too sis ,   as well   as all things I took for granted are being taken   , torn down and utterly destroyed before my eyes    , so  much suffering and loss in Adam /mankind , but  is  still  rising in Christ  in the victory by His merciful grace   Keeping our hearts open to receive Him.

...56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

   

[jugghead]

If God is in complete control, which I believe He is ..... and because I believe He is, I also believe; that at any given moment in time, everyone is exactly where they are suppose to be.

Even if we feel we are missing out on something, or feel empty ..... does not a vessel have to be emptied of the old before it can be filled with the new? Does not the temple have to be cleansed first? Are you not a new wineskin? Enter into His rest and KNOW He will fill you.

Even if we feel we are missing the mark, for is that not the dross rising to the top for Him to take away, leaving only the pure?

[darryl]

If God is in complete control, which I believe He is ..... and because I believe He is, I also believe; that at any given moment in time, everyone is exactly where they are suppose to be.

Even if we feel we are missing out on something, or feel empty ..... does not a vessel have to be emptied of the old before it can be filled with the new? Does not the temple have to be cleansed first? Are you not a new wineskin? Enter into His rest and KNOW He will fill you.

Even if we feel we are missing the mark, for is that not the dross rising to the top for Him to take away, leaving only the pure?

:iagree: :thumbsup:

[darryl]

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

[jugghead]

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Agree with you both ..... that is why I believe He took me out of that world ..... I am in a world where it exists, but I am not of that world

[GodIsLove]

So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!

Love you too Sarah!
My own opinion is that we don't really know until it is revealed to us individually.

I think that part of the humbling process of trusting in God is to admit that we don't know unless it is shown to us by Him.

We do a lot of "the bible says..." But so do the other thousands of denominations because translations and interpretations vary so much.

I know this is a bible heavy site and I read the bible myself but I believe in the salvation of all because I prayed after an obsessive journey to find out if hell was real or not and I believe God revealed it to me.

I believe in God and consider myself Christian because I had an unexpected spiritual experience with Jesus.

So in my own personal experience, it wasn't the church or the bible that has guided me, it was God Himself revealing Himself to me. This I believe is the pattern that happens, He chooses when to call us and who can resist his will?

So as far as all the details that are considered theological discussions we are all in different places because He has revealed different things to different people at different times and none of us have it all revealed yet.

We can't rely on the bible or church tradition without the revelation of the Holy Spirit because then it is the carnal mind trying to understand spiritual things. So many different ideas and of course they all can't be right! Without the Holy Spirit the bible is an old book that honestly makes no sense and sounds scary to the carnal mind. Prayer to me is hugely important. Also, I always think that Jesus never said "I will have my friends write a second bible to guide you" ----he said he would send the helper, the Holy Spirit to guide us.

My own thoughts are that the book of Revelations is spiritual in nature and must be interpreted that way, but I admit I don't fully understand it all yet. I have read an interpretation that Jesus's return is individual to each person and this is sort of what I believe. I don't believe in a literal hell or literal fire. God is a consuming fire.

Hope this is helpful. I hope it is okay to everyone else. I am just talking about my own experience, I know others may have had a different journey so far.

No matter what happens, the most important thing to do is to love God, love each other, and trust in His plan.

[darryl]

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Agree with you both ..... that is why I believe He took me out of that world ..... I am in a world where it exists, but I am not of that world

same. :banana: :banana: :banana: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[jugghead]

Love you too Sarah!
My own opinion is that we don't really know until it is revealed to us individually.

I think that part of the humbling process of trusting in God is to admit that we don't know unless it is shown to us by Him.

We do a lot of "the bible says..." But so do the other thousands of denominations because translations and interpretations vary so much.

I know this is a bible heavy site and I read the bible myself but I believe in the salvation of all because I prayed after an obsessive journey to find out if hell was real or not and I believe God revealed it to me.

I believe in God and consider myself Christian because I had an unexpected spiritual experience with Jesus.

So in my own personal experience, it wasn't the church or the bible that has guided me, it was God Himself revealing Himself to me. This I believe is the pattern that happens, He chooses when to call us and who can resist his will?

So as far as all the details that are considered theological discussions we are all in different places because He has revealed different things to different people at different times and none of us have it all revealed yet.

We can't rely on the bible or church tradition without the revelation of the Holy Spirit because then it is the carnal mind trying to understand spiritual things. So many different ideas and of course they all can't be right! Without the Holy Spirit the bible is an old book that honestly makes no sense and sounds scary to the carnal mind. Prayer to me is hugely important. Also, I always think that Jesus never said "I will have my friends write a second bible to guide you" ----he said he would send the helper, the Holy Spirit to guide us.

My own thoughts are that the book of Revelations is spiritual in nature and must be interpreted that way, but I admit I don't fully understand it all yet. I have read an interpretation that Jesus's return is individual to each person and this is sort of what I believe. I don't believe in a literal hell or literal fire. God is a consuming fire.

Hope this is helpful. I hope it is okay to everyone else. I am just talking about my own experience, I know others may have had a different journey so far.

No matter what happens, the most important thing to do is to love God, love each other, and trust in His plan.

:iagree: whole heartedly

[Lazarus Short]

So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!

No, we don't all agree, and that's one of the things that make this site so dynamic.  Not everyone here is a Universalist, or so I understand.  Yes, you are going to Heaven, or at least the Kingdom.  But tell us, how do you know that the second coming already came?  I think it could be so, but I'd like to hear your thinking.

[SarahR37]

What I have read is that the Roman attached the Jews in the 70AD? And that is the 2nd coming,? And that I read in the bible that it will happen in their life time and they will see the temple burn. So. Am I supposed to believe thats true because I keep hearing from everyone that it haven't happen.

[Cristina100]

I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Is there undeniable proof that majority of christians in the early church believe in universalism?

[darryl]

yup !..the Alexandrian church believed in Universal Reconciliation and most of the early church followed that belief.Gary has provided the proof on this website. Research it on the links listed on front page !.