The unpardonable Sin is one hell of a Sin

[Horan]

Well said Tom! It is important for us to also remember that by loving those who abuse us and falsely call us heretics and say all kinds of evil against us, we are demonstrating our gospel of unconditional love, even as those who believe ET demonstrate their "gospel" by walking in condemnation. The kinder we are, the gentler we are in our responses, the better testimony of the true light is shining through.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I'm so bad at this, historically! But then I'm a relatively new Christian, so maybe there's hope for me yet. But what excites me so much is Jesus's promise to literally come again. I was baptized into a sort of Christian cult as a young man, which I now see as having been much more new age than Christian, and I was infected with the notion that Christ's second coming is really just a metaphor, symbolic of inner, spiritual growth, which I now understand makes Christianity little different than anything else, power of now, Buddhism, whatever. But I sense that if I really do believe in Jesus' promise, holding fast to it though whatever happens, I should be able to bear all things gracefully; which is to say, with the patience of saints. I've observed that when things are going well in my life, mundane things, how I'm not at all very easily upset by little glitches here and there, like the power of positive thinking, right? Well, that will take you so far. But who can do it when the rubber really hits the road, when the crap hits the fan, as it were?  But I suspect those 2nd and 3rd Century Christians who let themselves be eaten by beasts and lit up like human torches rather than renounce their faith had much, much more going for them than positive thinking; which is to say, their rock solid faith in Jesus' promise, to not only come again, but to make all things new, set all things right.

I think we shall soon be called upon to stand firm in our faith, in spite of great opposition, even persecution and, in some cases, even unto death, before that great day arrives, and I should be honored to take my share of abuse. Faith, according to Paul, makes the arrival of that great day an immediate and present reality.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved.

[guest5685]

Here is a thought on unpardonable sin.

If you go speeding and get a ticket and go before a judge pleading not guilty. He might fine you $200 or so. If you pay the fine you are back in the good graces of the law again. If he dismisses the ticket you are pardoned and if not you endure a chastening or a punishment of $200. You have reaped a consequence from your bad judgement but it didn't last forever.  :punish: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[GodIsLove]

Here is a thought on unpardonable sin.

If you go speeding and get a ticket and go before a judge pleading not guilty. He might fine you $200 or so. If you pay the fine you are back in the good graces of the law again. If he dismisses the ticket you are pardoned and if not you endure a chastening or a punishment of $200. You have reaped a consequence from your bad judgement but it didn't last forever.  :punish: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

:thumbsup:

[Eduard]

I think it's explained right away what that sin was, and yet many want to make it mean something completely different... God is NOT the author of confusion.

[eaglesway]

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. They ought to have recognized the hand of God, and represented themselves as doing so and, I believe, on some level knew it was the hand of God but were so caught up in their perverse love of power and authority that they denegrated the works of the Spirit anyway.

If you look at the passage in hebrews 6

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.

Here, the writer of Hebrews is speaking of a person who has gone beyond the elementary teachings of Christ, tasted the powers of the coming age, etc., etc.

What I am saying is that not just any yokel who doesnt believe or is skeptical of the gifts of the Spirit or doubtful that a miracle is real, is guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. These days it would be hard to blame them- with all the proven fakes and the wonders of technology- I am skeptical until proven otherwise myself.

Also, people forget- Jesus was warning them, not passing the sentence on them- indicating that it was willful and I would venture- not totally ignorant disrespect towards the Spirit of God that would cause such a discipline to come upon them.

Lastly, the warning was that the sin could not be forgiven (as it is written in Greek) "in this age or the one coming" (meaning the next age, before the age of the judgment of the wicked known as the Great White Throne and the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna- aionian pur/aionian kolassis.

en
ἐν
in

toutō
τούτῳ
this

tō
τῷ
the

aiōni
αἰῶνι
age

oute
οὔτε
nor

en
ἐν
tō

τῷ
the

mellonti
μέλλοντι 
coming

Paul tells us that there are "ages to come" in Ephesians 2:7, so in my opinion what Jesus is saying is that those who commit egregious blasphemy will be held over to the final judgment for discipline if they don't repent- like as in Jude 6,

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Certainly Paul, who stoned Stephen even though multitudes of witnesses beheld the miracles wrought through him, was guilty of a similar level of blasphemy, but he later tells Timothy

even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief (1 Tim 1:13)


But  a person can only remain ignorant so long in the face of such miracles as were taking place in those days. Today, especially in America but also in foreign lands as well, it is difficult to tell the fakirs and sorcerers and con men- even when real miracles are happening because of the faith of the people - sometimes the preacher is a con or a total backslider.

Remember Jesus also said, "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didnt we cast out demons and prophesy and do many mighty works in your Name'" and He will tell them to depart from Him into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels(messengers).

This fire is the purging fire of the presence of God(Rev 14:10) and the effect of "unapproachable light" upon a stubborn heart of sin and Jesus says it will be a very difficult experience(I believe, emotionally and spiritually)- but we know at the end, "Every knee will bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and Every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord- to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:9-11) and that He must reign until every adversary is subjected at which time He will abolish all rule, power and authority because God will have become all in all(everything in everyone, 1 Cor 15)- so the whole creation will be finally set free in the glorious liberty of the children of God(Ro 8) as it says in Romans 11:32-36

"For God has bound all in disobedience that He might have mercy upon all......For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things".

In my opinion this is is going to take several ages, at the end of which all-  including the angels  referenced by Jude in the 6th verse and by Jesus in Matthew 25 - every adversary(human or otherwise) will be reconciled by the blood of His cross((Col 1;15-21)  including those blasphemers of the Holy Spirit.

And that's all I have to say about that :o)

[eaglesway]

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. They ought to have recognized the hand of God, and represented themselves as doing so and, I believe, on some level knew it was the hand of God but were so caught up in their perverse love of power and authority that they denegrated the works of the Spirit anyway.

If you look at the passage in hebrews 6

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.

Here, the writer of Hebrews is speaking of a person who has gone beyond the elementary teachings of Christ, tasted the powers of the coming age, etc., etc...... and then turned against God.(I guess it happens)

What I am saying is that not just any yokel who doesnt believe or is skeptical of the gifts of the Spirit or doubtful that a miracle is real, is guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. These days it would be hard to blame them- with all the proven fakes and the wonders of technology- I am skeptical until proven otherwise myself.

Also, people forget- Jesus was warning them, not passing the sentence on them- indicating that it was willful and I would venture- not totally ignorant disrespect towards the Spirit of God that would cause such a discipline to come upon them.

Lastly, the warning was that the sin could not be forgiven (as it is written in Greek) "in this age or the one coming" (meaning the next age, before the age of the judgment of the wicked known as the Great White Throne and the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna- aionian pur/aionian kolassis.

en
ἐν
in

toutō
τούτῳ
this

tō
τῷ
the

aiōni
αἰῶνι
age

oute
οὔτε
nor

en
ἐν
tō

τῷ
the

mellonti
μέλλοντι 
coming

Paul tells us that there are "ages to come" in Ephesians 2:7, so in my opinion what Jesus is saying is that those who commit egregious blasphemy will be held over to the final judgment for discipline if they don't repent- like as in Jude 6,

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Certainly Paul, who stoned Stephen even though multitudes of witnesses beheld the miracles wrought through him, was guilty of a similar level of blasphemy, but he later tells Timothy

even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief (1 Tim 1:13)


But  a person can only remain ignorant so long in the face of such miracles as were taking place in those days. Today, especially in America but also in foreign lands as well, it is difficult to tell the fakirs and sorcerers and con men- even when real miracles are happening because of the faith of the people - sometimes the preacher is a con or a total backslider.

Remember Jesus also said, "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didnt we cast out demons and prophesy and do many mighty works in your Name'" and He will tell them to depart from Him into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels(messengers).

This fire is the purging fire of the presence of God(Rev 14:10) and the effect of "unapproachable light" upon a stubborn heart of sin and Jesus says it will be a very difficult experience(I believe, emotionally and spiritually)- but we know at the end, "Every knee will bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and Every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord- to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:9-11) and that He must reign until every adversary is subjected at which time He will abolish all rule, power and authority because God will have become all in all(everything in everyone, 1 Cor 15)- so the whole creation will be finally set free in the glorious liberty of the children of God(Ro 8) as it says in Romans 11:32-36

"For God has bound all in disobedience that He might have mercy upon all......For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things".

In my opinion this is is going to take several ages, at the end of which all-  including the angels  referenced by Jude in the 6th verse and by Jesus in Matthew 25 - every adversary(human or otherwise) will be reconciled by the blood of His cross((Col 1;15-21)  including those blasphemers of the Holy Spirit.

And that's all I have to say about that :o)

[rosered]

 
Hi John I read all of your  post   now  ...I LOVE WHAT YOU SHARED !!! :HeartThrob:

  I just got here  and wanted to say

If you look at the passage in hebrews 6

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.

Here, the writer of Hebrews is speaking of a person who has gone beyond the elementary teachings of Christ, tasted the powers of the coming age, etc., etc.

What I am saying is that not just any yokel who doesnt believe or is skeptical of the gifts of the Spirit or doubtful that a miracle is real, is guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. These days it would be hard to blame them- with all the proven fakes and the wonders of technology- I am skeptical until proven otherwise myself.

Also, people forget- Jesus was warning them, not passing the sentence on them- indicating that it was willful and I would venture- not totally ignorant disrespect towards the Spirit of God that would cause such a discipline to come upon them.

Lastly, the warning was that the sin could not be forgiven (as it is written in Greek) "in this age or the one coming" (meaning the next age, before the age of the judgment of the wicked known as the Great White Throne and the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna- aionian pur/aionian kolassis.

When I read of the scribes and Pharisees of that day and time   I see them  as still under the Law of death    , the age to come  was  grace and Jesus Christ proved this one the CROSS that whomsoever believes in the Son of God shall have  LIFE   , that all things new  would   happen just as prophesied  HE is reigning now  as KING at the right hand of the FATHER THAT SITS ON HIS THRONE     

and just as we also  must come though the law  of death first before Christ  comes , our examples are in the WORD OF GOD  and judgment is here in my opinion

Those  scribes , readers of the word  and Pharisees /separatists  better off then others because of the word and hypocrites sayers and not doers   of the word  were ruling and reigning in death        , death  nothing but death still    ,   and called it life    , their own hearts were deceived thinking they were  living  while still dead in their sins ,  refusing HOLY SPIRIT the is the teacher and comforter   , keeping their carnal minds  as wisdom  and calling it god ..idols of the heart [Ekek]

   They were denying the gift of grace  ,BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ,   the Lord Jesus Christ  the only way to the Father , and denying the Son is also denying the Father whom sent Him and all the prophets  before Him   , the parable of the vineyard        , they were cutting themselves off     by the way they  acted against the Truth
  instead of it setting them  free it bound them by a oath .
  God swore it His wrath     , these children of disobedience would experience the wrath of God abiding on them  , till they come to Christ .

I know I have bowed the knee to Christ already and call Him my savoir and King   . He is ruling my heart  by the Holy Spirit as  witness
   Those whom have not  done so will ,  the moment they  rise up out of death ,  in this life if God chooses to do so  or at the last day of mortal  existence,  whom died in their  sins       to LIFE   , because it is the gift of God   that work of the Cross died for their sins too  ,     none will boast  in anything  but the LORD  JESUS CHRIST ...    THEY will be ashamed of whom they pierced  when they see Him  !   unlike those whom will be  prepared to meet him  and have waited  on the Lord  to come , this  complete  deliverance and not be ashamed   , but Glory in God  for always

  I am one who believes that it pertains to this life in Christ now ,    the fulfilling  of prophecy ,   being the  Spirit of prophecy  , that is the testimony of Jesus Christ   the Spoken Word  and to hear His SON and careful how you hear  as He warns us  ...

   To me the many ages   are the Changes , from one example to the next  ,  when we read the WORD OF GOD  ,   the WHOLE BOOK OF LIFE  is about  HIM
We see the  working  death  in those and the Life working in those   names and peoples  all examples and name changes  and anointings    of good and evil   

  But this is what MAKES  JESUS CHRIST the Lord of the dead and living    , the old and the new   throughout the ages and stages of mankind  in all the passages and   messages    and lives of mankind    from the beginning  to the end    ,  the Alpha and Omega      and the Fulness of Christ  in God being all in all and though all .

It s my faith what the Lord has given me     to believe  and can only share  my faith  and not wanting to  harm another faith or stumble them  at all , never  enters  my heart to do such things

Can only express  and cannot clearly at times , but God knows this struggle  in us all needing and wanting  to stand  in the   TRUTH      / cross of Jesus Christ 
But needs no one to do so  you cannot do nothing against   the TRUTH   as Paul state we can only for the Truth   
If  I believe a lie   and would stand corrected    , that judgment  my own heart deceiving me against the truth  :sigh:

2 Cor 13
Examine Yourselves
...7Now we pray to God that you do no wrong;


not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right,

even though we may appear unapproved................

8For we can do nothing against the truth,

but only for the truth.


9For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong;


this we also pray for, that you be made complete....

[marie glen]

  ...something I heard ..that to the Greeks and Greek culture, they did talk/think in terms of past or future ..but present ..it wasn't things would do or did but were doing ..a sort of eternal present and I thought of that today when reading of some Pharisees, against Paul, "contradicting and blaspheming"

...I remembered seeing this thread and thought if they are blaspheming/actively fighting against God they are committing the unable to be forgiven sin, for while they are doing it they cannot be forgiven / receive forgiveness.

I'm thinking perhaps we modern folks think in terms of future / past way too much.. :smile:

[Ross]

Could be why we are to take up the cross daily.
Also there is enough happens in one day.
Spiritual development is a continual on-going process.

[rosered]

Marie

..something I heard ..that to the Greeks and Greek culture, they did talk/think in terms of past or future ..but present ..it wasn't things would do or did but were doing ..a sort of eternal present and I thought of that today when reading of some Pharisees, against Paul, "contradicting and blaspheming"

...I remembered seeing this thread and thought if they are blaspheming/actively fighting against God they are committing the unable to be forgiven sin, for while they are doing it they cannot be forgiven / receive forgiveness.

I'm thinking perhaps we modern folks think in terms of future / past way too much.. :smile:

:thumbsup:

  I could not agree more Marie , its true ,  the Word says believe  that He IS ,  sounding pretty present tense to me ,  Also Now is the time   for those who believe  etc ..

Young's Literal Translation
and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder.
Ross

Could be why we are to take up the cross daily.
Also there is enough happens in one day.
Spiritual development is a continual on-going process.

  This is point on ,    great thoughts !      Give us this Day our daily   ,,etc   :thumbsup: