Marriage and Homosexuality

[Shev]

For my two cents, I worry that we can be so earnest in showing how loving we are to the world, that we can ignore the Lord. For the scriptures speak of marriage as a mystery concerning Christ and the church, and therefore marriage itself is a symbol for a deep spiritual reality that is integral to the gospel and the glory of the Lord. For me, to give any kind of approval, whether implicit or explicit, to a gay wedding, is to bear false witness to the mystery of Christ and the church, and make out Jesus to be a self-lover (of which homosexuality is a parable, among other things, being in love with one's mirror image) rather than a lover of His bride.

For me, we must ALWAYS start with the reality of Jesus Christ Himself, and that is not always going to come across as loving. We should certainly make every effort to come across as loving, but there are simply times we will be misunderstood, and that can't be helped. Declining to attend a gay marriage because of Christ does not make you a hater of homosexuals, but a lover of the truth.

I liked what Jabcat wrote about not all scriptures being about persuasion or preference. Paul was very earnest in his contention for the truth and the sound doctrine of Christ. This was not a cultural thing, but the actions of a man who had seen the risen Christ and been commissioned by Him.

Sometimes we will love people without them realizing it, just as God does His creation.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[Lorenzo]

Well, it is a hard problem. Personally I think that thou shouldst free thy mind from this worry and let our heavenly Father speak...imo

[rosered]

I so agree  Lorenzo   !!!!!!   Lord  says  pray to Him in secret ...........

"When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.

"When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. Don't be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him!

GOD KNOWS   our hearts so much better than we know them ourselves  !!
  Them hidden a deep dark places  of our hearts where  evil resides     

  May His Holy Spirit  fire &  light Shine  upon  all  hearts and making them pure clean and Holy before Him , that ONLY HE can do ... :HeartThrob:

[guest5685]

Yup! What Rosered and Lorenzo said  :iagree:

[stevenhawk7]

Hi Aerex,  My first post here on tentmaker...here's my take on your delima.  IF you love me, feed my sheep.  To feed His sheep is to love Him.  Our delima, "All we like sheep have gone astray and turned every on to our own way".  In the beginning we were all in the bosom of the Father, one in the fold of eternal spirit.  We went astray at our physical birth.  Not because we chose to, but the curse fell upon our knowing our "sheep" identity.  We forever will be in this fold, but for our time on earth it is ours to awaken to our eternal holy sheep status.  Yours and my "being astray in our own way" is no different than your gay friend's path.  Your friend is God, a part of the flock in the bosom of the Shepherd.  He awaits the shepherd seeking him to bring him home.  You are in the shepherd's fold and we are told to feed his sheep.  Bring him back to his rightful home.  To feed His sheep is to love alone.  I would make him a wedding cake, support his heart,  celebrate with him and let love have its way.  The blood of the lamb has done its work...it is finished...

[Seth]

Usually we can know what our deep conviction is and what our conscience tells us in about a third of a second. The hard part is doing what the conscience says. I haven't been good at that always myself, being weak and mortal. It's difficult, brother.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I had a similar situation with the drink being offered  years ago. I was working as the front desk manager of a Radisson hotel that was closing down and they had a party in the basement the last night it was open. Problem was the hotel was full and I had to work 26 hours straight because all the other front desk staff but one part timer quit in anger because the company didn't tell us they were closing until 3 days before.

So the manager sent someone to relieve me so I could join them downstairs for a few minutes and I was praying all the way down because they all knew I was Christian, and I knew they would offer me a drink of champagne, which they did. He had me to sip it, and they were much more open to everything I had shared in the previous 18 months. I had prayed everyday for my coworkers on my way to work, and after this I ran into many of them, and I counted about 20 out of a staff of over a 100, that had come to the Lord that I ran into months down the road.

I felt He was telling me that not to was to condemn them, and because the motive of my heart was not to be a stumbling block to my brethren, it was not sin for ME, so I could drink a glass with them and still be a light. One plants the seed, another waters. Blessings...

[GodIsLove]

Cardinal, thanks for sharing that story.

Steven, good post as well.

Even with the slightly different opinions on this thread, you can tell everyone's motive is to love God and love others. Good stuff :)

[micah7:9]

Just go to the wedding of your friend :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[jabcat]

Just go to the wedding of your friend :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Dear bro, he may indeed feel OK or even that somehow/for some reason it's the Lord's will if He gives him a specific purpose to go.  On the other hand, he might would be compromising and offend his conscience. 

Personally though, for an example (and I truly struggle with such things often);  if I went, I'm positive I would feel guilt, like I had been a bad witness, and would need to repent for what I would feel would be giving tacit approval by my acknowledgement of the ceremony. (good post Shev  :thumbsup:)     

That being the case, would you advise I just go anyway, or seriously, what further thoughts/suggestions do you have about something like this that might offend/go against my conscience?  Thanks :)

[marie glen]

  "I send you out as sheep among wolves.." - Jesus to the apostles.

oh, and "be you wise as serpents and harmless as doves"..

:thumbsup: I agree it's a jungle, we are sheep among wolves.. and we should be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves! The last verse veRy much resonates with me..

[marie glen]

For my two cents, I worry that we can be so earnest in showing how loving we are to the world, that we can ignore the Lord. For the scriptures speak of marriage as a mystery concerning Christ and the church, and therefore marriage itself is a symbol for a deep spiritual reality that is integral to the gospel and the glory of the Lord. For me, to give any kind of approval, whether implicit or explicit, to a gay wedding, is to bear false witness to the mystery of Christ and the church, and make out Jesus to be a self-lover (of which homosexuality is a parable, among other things, being in love with one's mirror image) rather than a lover of His bride.

For me, we must ALWAYS start with the reality of Jesus Christ Himself, and that is not always going to come across as loving. We should certainly make every effort to come across as loving, but there are simply times we will be misunderstood, and that can't be helped. Declining to attend a gay marriage because of Christ does not make you a hater of homosexuals..

Wow Shev, that about the church and the Lord, I've read and thought about before of course, but that was awesome and it really does make one think.. I've always, since saved, not approved of gay marriage, it's very sad really..

As a race (human) we can be so very ruinous can't we..

Yup! What Rosered and Lorenzo said  :iagree:

Me too! And liked Cardinal's story.. And well everyone's sharing their thoughts.. I think this is a 'tough-y' that's for sure! What I think I learned in this thread is in every instance to lean on the Lord and His guidance by His Spirit.. And of course that never leads to any sort of debauchery!

...we let our conscience, His quiet voice and His word lead us..

Even with the slightly different opinions on this thread, you can tell everyone's motive is to love God and love others.

I agree, GodIsLove!  :thumbsup: :smile:

IF you love me, feed my sheep...

Very interesting observation about the sheep, Stevenhawk7! :smile:

[Shev]

It certainly is a tough road for all of us, trying to live out our faith in this world, loving all people while staying true to the faith.

My concern is that the cliché "don't judge me" has come to really mean "don't disagree with me", and there is a clear pressure, through the media and on a personal level, to equate love with agreement. It is coming to the point where there is no greater wrong than to disagree with someone, and we therefore as believers have this pressure to show our love by always agreeing and always being agreeable. This is an understandable pressure, as we are eager to show forth the love of Christ to a dark world.

However, love is so much more than agreeing, and the love of God will often actually offend, as we well know by the life of Christ and the reaction of many people to UR. Christ said "if the world hates you, know that it hated me first", showing that believers will suffer the same misunderstanding as their master.

When it comes to how we relate to those who have not yet seen Christ, each situation has deep repercussions. The fact that Jesus associated with sinners has been often manipulated into implying that He indulged in the same sin, approved of the same sin, and celebrated the same sin. How then could He be the spotless lamb? Why would I want to celebrate something Christ had to die for? If a person is in bondage to a sin, I will love them, but I will not celebrate that which they are enslaved to, any more than Moses celebrated the Egyptians who lashed his Hebrew brethren.

I would rather someone hate me now for disagreeing with them, than have them approach me in the ages to come when their eyes have been opened, and ask "Why did you rejoice over the bonds that imprisoned me? Why did you raise a glass to that which Jesus was crucified for?"

[jabcat]

and that my friend (IMO) is a spectacular post!

[marie glen]

...and very true in so many ways.. It would be nice (also) if people would realize that to disagree or not be in support of, does not equate to dislike (let alone hatred as is so often the accusation - on every issue!)

...but I came back to post, in all seriousness, how nice it is to be able to express an opinion which may differ with another's without being told you're going to 'hell'! :laughing7: oops, did I say that out loud? :faint: :cheerleader:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's very true Shev.....the only thing I would add is we still have to be instant in season and out or we may hurt the wheat, too.  It's a tough call, which is why I'd turn it over to the Lord.  :dontknow:

[guest5685]

...but I came back to post, in all seriousness, how nice it is to be able to express an opinion which may differ with another's without being told you're going to 'hell'! :laughing7: oops, did I say that out loud? :faint: :cheerleader:

Marie's Guilty--Yep! Four letter word speaker!!! Stone her! OOPS! I meant to say forgive her. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Now folks I'm just kidding a bit so don't get upset-ok?  :dsunny: :dsunny:

[rosered]

  Great thoughts everyone ...   Shev  it is a serious business  , being about the Father business.. all joking aside ...   

  Showing great maturity    in many answers  and how  sharing the motives of our hearts   openly  , before God and one another

  I went back yesterday and read Roman 1 and 2  ,    Chapter 2  is  making us examine ourselves    as judges  ,  either justified  or  unjustified  ..

All   sin  birthed  is death   and it is certainly a LONG list  ''lust/desire  '' is that motive  of the heart    , We are all judged   by what we say and do   , in ignorance/darkness /night  and in  knowing  /light /day.

1 James 5 ...14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren....


I don't think anyone  can know that the fiery trials  of our faith are the  judgments in the earth , till they experience them and  you   LEARN   and KNOW   real fast
  not to   taste not  touch not and handle not ! [tree of knowledge of good and evil    that law that puts to death   sin in our flesh ]  THAT   HEAT IS  HOT and every emotion is pulled up and out of you  exposing  nakedness    , PAIN  and anger  , suffering ,weeping and  wailing and gnashing of teeth  sitting in  dark  loneliness  and  miserable   , just wanting to die and have it over with , our covering and garment is   Christ  , our  grace covering     ,  you can only wait on the Lord to help you rise up out of death , HE raises the dead to life again and restores our lives to give hope and meaning and purpose 

  But since the dead know nothing they do not understand  what is happening to them    , and I say this metaphorically speaking     that being dead in sin and trespass   is what the world is experiencing   because they do not know God nor love Him first  and that enemy is death working in them and  holding them prisoner    , till Christ come to set them free     ,       that can only be  overcome though JESUS CHRIST    in YOU    , the LIVING WORD made flesh    by faith in Him and learning to wait on the Lord to come ...     

I do believe we get to feel everything    and  He  is with us though it all     , the HOLY SPIRIT & fire of Gods consuming    is an excellent teacher   though them experiences and comforter when we learn righteousness in the earth  , it is  two edged  for sure     ...   one   side kills and the other side makes alive  in HIM

   The desires of our hearts are   always exposed ,    in our actions , well meaning as they may be  , if they go against the DESIRE OF GOD     there will be  correction ...  We can  certainly  expect   His WORD  to be true   and judge us all accordingly....... :HeartThrob:     

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Rose.....good post..... :iagree:

[Seth]

Just go to the wedding of your friend :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Dear bro, he may indeed feel OK or even that somehow/for some reason it's the Lord's will if He gives him a specific purpose to go.  On the other hand, he might would be compromising and offend his conscience. 

Personally though, for an example (and I truly struggle with such things often);  if I went, I'm positive I would feel guilt, like I had been a bad witness, and would need to repent for what I would feel would be giving tacit approval by my acknowledgement of the ceremony. (good post Shev  :thumbsup:)     

That being the case, would you advise I just go anyway, or seriously, what further thoughts/suggestions do you have about something like this that might offend/go against my conscience?  Thanks :)

:thumbsup:

It's like saying "just eat the meat sacrificed to idols!" Or "just celebrate Christmas, already!"

[Seth]

My advice: just search your conscience and don't act against your faith.

[micah7:9]

Ho boy.....just a  :2c: thought. You know it was not to long ago when I was given to understand that I have a very large beam in my eye and well, I realized that I had spent a good part of my walk thinking I was looking past that beam and seeing what I assumed to be splinters in others, but in truth, all I saw was a beam with many splinters, all in my eye.  :2c: :HeartThrob:

[GodIsLove]

Ho boy.....just a  :2c: thought. You know it was not to long ago when I was given to understand that I have a very large beam in my eye and well, I realized that I had spent a good part of my walk thinking I was looking past that beam and seeing what I assumed to be splinters in others, but in truth, all I saw was a beam with many splinters, all in my eye.  :2c: :HeartThrob:

Yes yes yes...me too.

[rosered]

   Me as well .... :sigh:     ol ' beam eye

  Where did Aerex  go by the way ?