Do you celebrate Christmas?

[GodIsLove]

All people are in different places as far as their faith and growing closer to God by following the Holy Spirit. I like Cardinal and Seth's exchange and agree with their sentiments. Yes many atheists and Christians-in-name-only celebrate Christmas. Yes the materialism is immoral.  But I still feel led to celebrate. And I am celebrating Jesus's birth. I am celebrating "tidings of joy, for ALL people" when Jesus was born. The bible didn't tell me personally to celebrate but angels told the shepherds to rejoice, and wise men traveled following a star. We live in a physical (carnal) world and physical symbols and celebrations help us remember things. Some people may be more spiritually evolved and may not need or want to participate which is fine. As I have had my eyes opened (yes I'm sure there are still more scales to fall, for me and for everyone else) I have abandoned some of the secular aspects...such as Santa, secular music, the materialism/consumerism. One really can't celebrate every day in the same way that devoting a day or month can lend itself to really immersing yourself in remembering that pivotal day when Jesus was born.

"8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

I posted a couple of songs "God rest ye merry gentlemen" and "oh holy night" ... Those along with some others are great UR songs IMO and I could listen to them all year. And I do think for the majority of humanity who are walking in the carnal/physical and not spiritual, they can have a glimpse of the glory to come if only through Christmas carols proclaiming Jesus the savior of all mankind.

I am not trying to convince anyone they SHOULD celebrate, I truly believe it can be different for different people. Please don't try to convince me that you know my heart or intentions.

"carnal man has a habit of making things to show the how religious he can be."

My personal experience only...those in my life who don't celebrate give off the appearance of trying to show how religious they can be.

Show doesn't matter on either account (and it doesn't matter what you or I judge), it is our hearts, which only God knows.

The spirit of Judgement on this threat is bothering me, to the point that I may have to reevaluate my presence here.

I tire of the "pagan this" "pagan that" mentality. It gripped me for a season and I feared and everyone around me were somehow in bed with Babylon. I am free of that now and do not wish to return.

God bless.

[eaglesway]

I really havent been following this thread, but I hav some thoughts on it. Some people are offended by the commercialization. Some by ideas of dates being combined with old pagan feast days like Easter and eggs and all of that. I tend to agree with God is Love on this in that to the pure all things are pure. For those who celebrate Christmas in the spirit of glorifying Christ(few tho they may be) it is an opportunity to spread the gospel.

Certainly at the very least it falls within the category of days that- if one man observes let him do it unto the Lord and if another does not let that one do so as unto the Lord and let love rule betwen the two- because that is the foundation.

Jesus turned water into wine. He wasnt hung up on stuff we think He was/is hung up on.

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain....


My Mom was a huge Christmas freak all my life. She just loved the holidays and the family gatherings and the music and singing. I dislike the whole gift gorging thing but I enjoy those other things and celebrate freely with my family as unto Christ, even tho I may know a few things about what Christmas really is that they dont.

One of the biggest errors of the Jews was they pursued the law in order to establish their own righteousness(Romans 10). They got holier than thou and puffed up in knowledge and forgot about love.... that in all things we ought to edify. Love edifies, knowledge puffs up.

Its a shame when we get even further separated from the ones we love by obnoxious self righteous attitudes when we could shine in the midst of them and just not give in to the stuff that is carnal..... but thats just my opinion, it is how I live it out.

[Shev]

GodIsLove - I hope you do not leave, as you appear to be debating. A thread like this is going to bring out a lot of different opinions, and oftentimes they will be stated quite starkly, but you would be missed!

[Seth]

Col 2
21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

In this scripture, I see two sides of the pendulum regarding this issue of Christmas. On the one hand we have the  regulation TO celebrate Christmas (i.e. imposed worship, you're not a true Christian if you don't nonsense), and also the everything-is-tainted folks (touch not, handle not).

I like how Paul said that these rules are dealing with things that perishes with use (pork, trees, holy days), rather than love itself which never perishes. And I think the connection between the fanatical pro and anti positions have to do with "appearance of wisdom" or "false humility." Nobody on this conversation has struck me that way, because both positions are coming from a place of sincerity.

But, what the above scripture tells me is that it's not just what we MAKE that can be an expression of carnality. On the other hand - the things we AVOID can be an expression of the carnal man too. Where anything that gives us pleasure becomes carnal and asceticism is the way to please God.  I think it's keeping humble - and not building a tower of religious pride to heaven either in the pro-Christmas or anti-Christmas stance - keeps us from judging each other.

[Seth]

Eaglesway,   :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

 :gimmefive:

[Shev]

Col 2
21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

In this scripture, I see two sides of the pendulum regarding this issue of Christmas. On the one hand we have the  regulation TO celebrate Christmas (i.e. imposed worship, you're not a true Christian if you don't nonsense), and also the everything-is-tainted folks (touch not, handle not).

I like how Paul said that these rules are dealing with things that perishes with use (pork, trees, holy days), rather than love itself which never perishes. And I think the connection between the fanatical pro and anti positions have to do with "appearance of wisdom" or "false humility." Nobody on this conversation has struck me that way, because both positions are coming from a place of sincerity.

But, what the above scripture tells me is that it's not just what we MAKE that can be an expression of carnality. On the other hand - the things we AVOID can be an expression of the carnal man too. Where anything that gives us pleasure becomes carnal and asceticism is the way to please God.  I think it's keeping humble - and not building a tower of religious pride to heaven either in the pro-Christmas or anti-Christmas stance - keeps us from judging each other.

Amen Seth. Ultimately, anything that keeps Jesus Christ from being the central point and focus of our faith is a losing scenario. To judge our brethren on something that is not clearly sin, is to judge Gods parenting of our siblings, as He is leading us all through various paths. The Xmas question is a bit like the church system question - to tell people whether or not to do such and such is to try and take over the parenting from God.

I do like threads like this, because (believe it or not) I like hearing viewpoints different to my own expressed in love, and in clarity of thought. It is much more beneficial to hear other perspectives on an issue, than to heap up "yes men" around oneself.

[sheila]

  :thumbsup:  Seth....your post hit the nail on the head,I think.

[eaglesway]

AgreedShev...

Disagreement also sometimes reveal that we are too personally attached to aur views in the ego.

Disagreement should never provoke anger. Such a response reveals insecurity or arrogance or fear or whatever.

I know because i was there for a long time. Debating to serve God can become a really deep rabbit whole!

The fire tests the metal, and altho I still get riled up once in awhile... I see that for what it is(flesh) and put it under subjection to the grace of God. We think it is the metal of our doctrine that is being tested.... God is really just testing our love, humility, forgiveness, patience, tolerance, forbearance, meekness and kindness(just to name a few :o)

[sheila]

   excellant counsel there brother[ew]

[Seth]

 :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

 :Chinscratch: :dontknow: :bdh: :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Dead Horses abound... as do dead horse beaters :o)

[Shev]

I guess I will have to scrap my planned thread "Which one of us will be the greatest in the kingdom and why?"  :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

Dead Horses abound... as do dead horse beaters :o)

Yeah and we got em alright. :Peace2:

[rosered]

 :laughing7:

lol...........

  Some excellent  council    all around  :HeartThrob:

  I love many things shared here on this tread ...  and this forum .
  I do believe  we are all at different places   as   God is love pointed out so gracefully

I just want to thank God for the promise of the Holy Spirit     , teacher and comforter     , to me that is the most awesome a precious gift   Jesus Christ  Himself set in motion ...

John 16 The Holy Spirit Promised
...12"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you....


  Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God     :dsunny:
Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD--

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.



Hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

1 John 5:6
This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

  :icon_flower:

[micah7:9]

I guess I will have to scrap my planned thread "Which one of us will be the greatest in the kingdom and why?"  :laughing7:

Interesting....would like to read it :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

Merry Christmas and to all a good night!  :dsunny:

[guest5685]

My wife and I celebrate Christmas and do the relative gift giving thing as others do. Yes the commercialism of Christmas is way overdone but here are a couple reasons why we celebrate Christmas. Before I knew the Lord my heart or thoughts toward him were more prevalent at those times of the year. It was one particular Christmas that as my heart was softer or drawn by the Lord my wife had a Word of Wisdom given to her concerning me by the Lord. You see each year I'd do the New Years Resolution thing and say I'm going to start going to church each week with the family and be a better father etc. Well that never happened at least not for more than a month or so.

We had just come home from shopping and buying the last few Christmas presents and I was thrilled to have that chore finished. I told my wife "Well that's done we've got everyone's gifts and now we can relax." She said "Well almost everyone! We didn't get anything for Jesus." to which I replied "Well what can you get him? He's got everything." That's when things changed as she said "Well he doesn't have you!" then she said "You know that New Years Resolution you make each year and never keep. Don't tell me or anyone else but just tell Jesus then if you don't keep it nobody will know." I thought about what she said and it got to me pretty good. I went into the bathroom a bit later and told God my usual New Years Promise. Being raised as a Catholic kid and really not a practicing one I thought about going to confession then to midnight mass. It had been so many years since I had done that so I had lots of stuff to unload.
If anyone here doesn't know about the Catholic confessionals the have this booth with 3 doors. The priest is in the booths center door and on each side there is a door folks enter to tell their sins to him that is in the center cubicle there is a kind of semi-see through screen so they can't tell who you are and as you enter you kneel on a little kneeler thing and outside above the doors a little light goes on so you know if the little booth is occupied or not.

This night folks were lined up on each side of the church waiting to go to confession before attending mass. The church had a confessional on each side wall. I entered and the lines that moved kind of briskly on each side. They stopped on my side for quite some time! Yep! I had lots to unload! Remember I still didn't know the Lord but I was doing my best to move in the right direction. After spilling my guts to that priest he had to help me through some kind of prayer of contrition I had memorized as a kid but had forgotten the words. He told me to say a couple quick Our Father's prayers and a Hail Mary or two for my penance. I thought wow that's all for 15 to 20 minutes of stuff. Anyhow I felt better but just 2 days later was SUNDAY. I was supposed to go to church according to my resolution. I usually pretended to be asleep until my wife went to church then I'd get up and be glad I didn't have to go. It was so boring!
This Sunday I thought twice going to church in one week-nope- I'll just pretend to be asleep. My wife called to me right before she left and asked if I was going and I said no. She then proceeded to put the children in the car and as she did I began to shake inside. It was something I did not expect but then
I heard a voice saying "You made a promise to me are you going to keep it?" There were a few other things said but I sprung out of that bed called to my wife who was already backing the car down the driveway and told her to wait I was coming.

That was the start of a journey until I had a real salvation experience. This church had what they called folk masses and lively music at the last Sunday morning mass. Their was a kind of hippie looking priest with an big Afro hairdo and he was a white guy. Whenever he spoke I began to tear up and couldn't explain why. That went on for 4 or 5 weeks and I'd be a mess all week tearing up until about Thursday each week. I thought I was going nuts but thought it strange how I wanted to go back and hear him every week just to start the cycle over again. It was the Holy Ghost convicting me of my need for Jesus but since it was a Catholic church I was considered ok because I was baptized as an infant. I'll just try to cut this long post a bit shorter in case you get bored by my story. During that time I bought a book by George Otis about getting rich and one day decided to read the chapter 4 in the book. It was about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I decided to read that chapter since all the other chapters convicted me about my lifestyle too much. While reading that chapter God gave me a vision of the crucifixion and I saw Jesus so messed up and at the same time I saw thousands of still photos of things I had done contrary to love but justified by myself. I knew he had been crucified because of those things at least that is what I perceived at that time. I also saw something else. I saw His Eyes looking right down upon me. It was like two golden spotlights full of a love I had never experienced before. I knew despite all those things I saw in the photos he loved me and forgave me. I broke right then and there and wept like a big baby. The king size bed I was laying on as I read that book seemed to almost bounce up and down as I wept. I left that room a changed man.

My wife and I heard all the stuff about Christmas and Easter celebrations coming from pagan traditions and almost decided to quit celebrating those holidays.
You know those are TWO DAYS in the whole year folks get reminded of Jesus and just like myself seem to have a softer heart. We celebrate because of what he has done but also knowing these are two days that God uses to draw folks that never grace a church door except for weddings and or funerals. I personally think God can use anything to draw or touch men regardless of some previous pagan beliefs. He works with us not because of Santa or the Christmas Tree but simply because he wants our hearts.

That's the story of how my walk began and as we celebrate with presents and good family times we believe it helps to keep Jesus in their thoughts even if just a little bit more than would be the case. It also keeps us from being estranged from family we desire to see come to him. Our opportunities to share what we believe are easier if they see us as one of them.   :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Dead Horses abound... as do dead horse beaters :o)

Yeah and we got em alright. :Peace2:

Yup :laugh:

[guest5685]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Eduard]

Merry Christmas and to all a good night!  :dsunny:

From the crew of Apollo 8 ?  :gimmefive:

I personally do not see Christmas as a day to celebrate the Birth of Christ, and I think that His birth, life, and resurrection are all utmost important, and do not need one day. But I don't condemn anyone else. Nor do I condemn Orthodox and Catholics for having different dates of Easter.  :declare:

[micah7:9]

Merry Christmas and to all a good night!  :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

Agree about the dead horses and all...

I also agree with EW's various posts and other people's as well.

I do love a respectful disagreement, and have read and participated in some on this forum and have felt they were always surprisingly civil and even opposing views were shared with humility and love.

For a moment on this thread I perceived the humility and love to be lacking and a "I'm right you're wrong" mentality creeping in, which is why I responded the way I did.

I do love hearing why someone believes or acts or thinks a certain way, even a way different from my own. More than once on this forum it has caused me to stop and think and even reevaluate my thoughts.

It's interesting that we all feel led by the Spirit even if the Spirit is leading us differently. I like the analogy that God is parenting us all differently based what we need as individuals at this moment in time. The end result will be the same but we are taking differently paths with Christ as our guide.

I used to accuse my mom of loving my brother more and he used to accuse her of the opposite. She always said "I love you equally but differently based on what each of you need" ...now with my own two I understand her statement completely. Sorry if that seemed irrelevant, it seems fitting for me.

Unshakeable truths for me are believing in Jesus, loving God, and loving our neighbors. The details like this thread are up for differing opinions...but I prefer a "this works for me" when sharing...

I used to believe everything I knew was right and it was my duty to share (jam down their throat) my views. It caused discord with no other good fruit. Then over time God would show me that I was actually wrong anyway! So good thing I didn't convince anyone. Then my eyes would be pried open a tad more and again and again.

So now I try to practice humility. No one has it all right.

[idontknow]

My wife and I heard all the stuff about Christmas and Easter celebrations coming from pagan traditions and almost decided to quit celebrating those holidays.
You know those are TWO DAYS in the whole year folks get reminded of Jesus and just like myself seem to have a softer heart. We celebrate because of what he has done but also knowing these are two days that God uses to draw folks that never grace a church door except for weddings and or funerals. I personally think God can use anything to draw or touch men regardless of some previous pagan beliefs. He works with us not because of Santa or the Christmas Tree but simply because he wants our hearts.  :HeartThrob:

After reading that it reminded me that i had an experience that made me a Christian last Christmas eve. I had kind of forgot about it until now and i think the timing of it did lead me to Jesus easier than it would have if it had happened in July.

It's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on it i like seeing things from others point of view.